LLD XG

marma hi, I'm following this only via IRC (Martin Malmsten from KB, Stockholm)

TomB Previous: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html

TomB Scribe: Bernard

TomB scribenick: bernard

Topic: Admin

RESOLUTION: accept previous telecon minutes

Topic : next meetings - F2F in Pittsburgh

TomB: will circulate more information about F2F
... will need improvisation about phone and projector ...
... agenda is on the wiki

emma draft agenda for F2F : http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh

TomB ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page to indicate whether they are attending or not at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]

scribe ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page to indicate whether they are attending or not at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/09-lld-minutes.html#action03]

TomB: informal meeting in Cologne

Informal meeting of XG members at SWBIB 2010 on the morning of 1 December - contact Joachim Neubert

Topic : Use cases and case studies - update

TomB: For next week telecon pick two use cases for detailed discussion

emma ACTION: By Monday Sept. 6 members should add to list of email lists at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html#action05] [DONE]

emma ACTION: Group to comment on email text at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail by Monday, Sept. 6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html#action06] [DONE]

emma ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08]

Topic : RDA

emma --CONTINUE

emma ACTION: Gordon will prepare something on RDA, FRBR etc. for discussion in Sept. agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action06] [DONE]

-- To be discussed: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data

Topic : GordonD presentation of http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data

TomB Within IFLA, new technical group for namespaces, coordination of standards in SW framwork, etc - will report to new core activity that resurrects something abandoned a few years ago - concept of universal bibliographic control. One or two months.

GordonD no formal connection between FRBR and RDA activities

TomB ... special interest group for SW issues. Producing mappings beyond IFLA, e.g. for RDA, remains semi-formal - no formal orgn looking at mappings with RDA. Only joint membership in activities.

GordonDPublication of standards in RDF not synchronized

TomB ... Trying to convey complexity of issues - if we are to get these standards to work together effectively.

GordonD Issues section gathers issues discussed in both groups
... Constrained versus unconstrained properties and classes is the main issue ...

GordonDno specification of constraints in RDA ...

emma pressure from non-lib community for unconstrained properties but RDA, JSC and IFLA groups are convinced that constrained versions ar necessary

emma recent IFLA meeting consider publishing unconstrained versions, linked with constrained ones.

matolat zakim michaelp.a is matolat

TomB Gordon: IFLA persuaded, JSC coming around - have indicated they will not block unconstrained properties.

kcoyle another issue has to do with the way constraints are expressed and how they are enforced in applications
... not sure the RDA method actually works

GordonD constraints are not enforced on applications
... constraints are useful to check legacy data

kcoyle there is a sort a contradiction there

TomB Gordon: They are constraints on _inferences_. Powerful if you consider there may be billions of triples eventually. Records can be "filled in" using inferences.

GordonD I won't call them "unformal" constraints

Zakim michaelp, you wanted to talk about constraints

GordonD We need more technical investigation

Michaelp there is a bit of confusion about constraints and validation
... In OWL the constraints are enabling, not restricting
... There are different of constraints like in XML schemas

GordonD Indeed a big deal of confusion in this area
... RDA wants to be validated as a schema
... but also enabling as Michaelp has pointed

Jeff_ The same model can be used either as a schema, either as enabling depending on the use case

kcoyle we should clarify which constraints we are speaking about

GordonD There are a lot of value constraints in RDA

emma Karen : RDA primary constraints are about constraining a property to a FRBR entity, not the values

GordonD RDA should keep its own versions of FRBR constraints ...

TomB move on to next topics
... port this discussion to F2F

jeff_ +1

mzrcia +1

AlexanderH +1

GordonD next topic is "Application profiles or OWL ontologies"

emma GordonD : ISBD elements have a sequence + indicate if mandatory or not, so need for application profile

GordonD What LLD can bring is clarification of when using application profiles and when using OWL

Topic: Use of published properties and classes

GordonD How can library comunity be made aware of and re-use widely used classes and properties?

Need to acknowledge overlap between libray and "open Web" classes and properties

Zakim emma, you wanted to suggest the need to encourage the use of widespread standards

emma Agreed with GordonD ...

it's very much an issue of trust ...

mzrcia FRSAD intent to use skos semantic relationships instead of repeating to define them

LLD should encourage library community not to be shy about this use

Zakim TomB, you wanted to suggest additional attention to "alignment" - mappings and "identity links" between vocabularies

emma library community not used to multiplicity of representations

jeff_ Gordon, you should add OWL to the list of DC, FOAF, SKOS at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data#Use_of_published_properties_and_classes

GordonD Jeff, will do

marcia: We have already actions on declaring relationships using "sameAs" or "equivalent classes"

mzrcia using SKOS secmantic relationships

mzrcia such as broader, narrower... between themas

GordonD: The library community should not be churlish in saying "not invented here"
... Elements coming from the library models will be useful elsewhere also

mzrcia I was also into the discussion of reusing/borrowing the associative relationships between concepts/topics defined by the Getty vocabulary

GordonD How can LLD can have action on milestones in this area?
... Library linked-data and legacy records ...

potential to generate billions of instances ...

GordonD copyright is a critical issue here ...

emma GordonD : Need from LLD community to encourage freeing the data

It's a political issue (How can libraries be encouraged to "free" their records?)

GordonD Technical infrastructure ...

emma Library system vendors will only change if customers ask for it

How are vendors to see the ROI?

Topic: Duplication and identifiers

GordonD identifying different records for the same thing is also a big issue ..
... Library culture ...
... sociological barriers to address ...

rsinger GordonD++ #awesome

emma +1, Thanks GordonD !

mzrcia +1, Gordon!

LarsG +1 GordonD, Great!

TomB +1 great summary of the issues!

GordonD All, thanks!

TomB: a lot of congratulations to Gordon!