edit

Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 06 December 2012

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.12.06
Seen
Graham Klyne, Hook Hua, Ivan Herman, James Cheney, Jun Zhao, Khalid Belhajjame, Luc Moreau, Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Sam Coppens, Satya Sahoo, Simon Miles, Stephan Zednik, Stian Soiland-Reyes, Ted Thibodeau, Timothy Lebo, Tom De Nies, Trung Huynh
Regrets
James Cheney, Paolo Missier, Timothy Lebo, Stephan Zednik, Hook Hua
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Simon Miles
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. the minutes of last week's teleconference link
Topics
  1. admin

    Minutes were approved.

  2. congratulations

    Congratulations to the editors of the FPWDs (overview, links, dc, xml). Their transition request was approved this week. Publication scheduled for Dec 11th.

  3. Getting Things Ready for Implementation

    The questionnaires need to be mostly ready for the CR transition call on Friday, and final release on Tuesday. Luc will provide urls to concepts. Paul will replicate the questionnaire for the various kinds of implementations. Dong has curated a test suite of 240+ test cases (each of them formatted in rdf, prov-n, xml). The test cases are ready for review by the WG. Jun and Paul will do it as they implement test cases. Paolo and James are invited to look at them (in their absence, action was raised). Issues regarding the submission of the constraints implementation report were discussed, and in particular it is investigated whether a form can support it.

  4. prov-xml

    Stian made a proposal, using substitution groups, to manage the prov namespace, with multiple schema files. The prov-xml editors are invited to review the proposal and try to converge to a solution (action raised against Stephan).

  5. prov-aq

    Extensive editorial changes have taken place during the last week. There are a few issues that need discussion/decision by the group. Graham will initiate discussion by email.

  6. prov-sem

    James had produced an update on progress ahead of the meeting. Ivan will approach the math-ml contact to see if there are any tools that may help in converting the document to note format. Tom offered to check whether rules had been properly encoded.

  7. prov-dictionary

    Sam and Tom are aiming to produce a version of prov-dictionary by the next telco, ready for an internal review. The aim is to synchronize a FPWD release with proposed recommendations.

15:52:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-prov-irc

15:52:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:52:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be PROV

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:52:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

15:52:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:52:53 <trackbot> Date: 06 December 2012
15:53:17 <Luc> trackbot, start telcon

Luc Moreau: trackbot, start telcon

15:53:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:53:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be PROV

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:53:21 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes

15:53:22 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:53:22 <trackbot> Date: 06 December 2012
15:53:25 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:53:25 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes

15:53:43 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.12.06
15:53:55 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
15:54:31 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

15:55:01 <Luc> Regrets: James Cheney, Paolo Missier, Timothy Lebo
15:56:22 <pgroth> you can add Stephan Zednik

Paul Groth: you can add Stephan Zednik

15:56:26 <Luc> Regrets: James Cheney, Paolo Missier, Timothy Lebo, Stephan Zednik, Hook Hua
15:56:36 <pgroth> :-(

Paul Groth: :-(

15:57:19 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

15:57:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:57:26 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the call?

Paul Groth: zakim, who is on the call?

15:57:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see [IPcaller]

15:57:36 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

15:57:36 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

15:57:55 <ivan> zakim, code?

Ivan Herman: zakim, code?

15:57:55 <Zakim> the conference code is 7768 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7768 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

15:58:20 <Zakim> +ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +ivan

15:58:34 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.238.059.aaaa

15:58:47 <Luc> zakim,  +44.238.059.aaaa is me

Luc Moreau: zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

15:58:47 <Zakim> +Luc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it

15:58:58 <Luc> zakim, who is on the call?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is on the call?

15:58:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, ivan, Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, ivan, Luc

15:59:28 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

15:59:39 <smiles> zakim, ??P13 is me

Simon Miles: zakim, ??P13 is me

15:59:39 <Zakim> +smiles; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +smiles; got it

16:00:43 <Zakim> + +1.315.941.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.941.aabb

16:00:49 <tlebo> zakim, I am aabb

Timothy Lebo: zakim, I am aabb

16:00:49 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it

16:01:04 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

16:01:13 <jun> zakim, ??p1 is me

Jun Zhao: zakim, ??p1 is me

16:01:13 <Zakim> +jun; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it

16:01:13 <Luc> i need a scribe please

Luc Moreau: i need a scribe please

16:01:26 <pgroth> i can if no one else

Paul Groth: i can if no one else

16:01:28 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

16:01:38 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

16:01:38 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

16:01:39 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:01:39 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

16:01:44 <smiles> I can scribe

Simon Miles: I can scribe

16:01:47 <tlebo> sorry, I might get pulled away during the call.

Timothy Lebo: sorry, I might get pulled away during the call.

16:01:58 <smiles> ok

Simon Miles: ok

16:02:05 <smiles> Scribe: smiles

(Scribe set to Simon Miles)

16:02:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:02:32 <stain> zakim, +IPcaller is me

Stian Soiland-Reyes: zakim, +IPcaller is me

16:02:32 <Zakim> sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+IPcaller'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+IPcaller'

16:02:37 <stain> zakim, IPcaller is me

Stian Soiland-Reyes: zakim, IPcaller is me

16:02:37 <Zakim> +stain; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it

16:02:49 <Luc> topic: admin

1. admin

Summary: Minutes were approved.

<luc>Summary: Minutes were approved.
16:02:52 <Luc> proposed: to approve the minutes of last week's teleconference

PROPOSED: to approve the minutes of last week's teleconference

16:03:01 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

16:03:05 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:03:06 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1

16:03:14 <smiles> +1

+1

16:03:15 <Dong> +1

Trung Huynh: +1

16:03:20 <stain> 0 not read (the link?)

Stian Soiland-Reyes: 0 not read (the link?)

16:03:28 <Zakim> +??P30

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30

16:03:35 <Luc> resolved: the minutes of last week's teleconference

RESOLVED: the minutes of last week's teleconference

16:03:39 <Zakim> +??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26

16:03:39 <stain>  http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-11-29

Stian Soiland-Reyes: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-11-29

16:04:14 <GK> zakim, ??p26 is me

Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p26 is me

16:04:14 <Zakim> +GK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it

16:04:16 <pgroth> no

Paul Groth: no

16:04:17 <pgroth> no

Paul Groth: no

16:04:19 <smiles> Luc:  Actions open, Tim's for later, Luc's not done, Stefan's will be covered later

Luc Moreau: Actions open, Tim's for later, Luc's not done, Stefan's will be covered later

16:04:20 <Zakim> -stain

Zakim IRC Bot: -stain

16:04:37 <Luc> topic: congratulations

2. congratulations

Summary: Congratulations to the editors of the FPWDs (overview, links, dc, xml). Their transition request was approved this week. Publication scheduled for Dec 11th.

<luc>Summary: Congratulations to the editors of the FPWDs (overview, links, dc, xml). Their transition request was approved this week. Publication scheduled for Dec 11th.
16:04:44 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Dec/0017.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Dec/0017.html

16:04:58 <pgroth> s/topoic/topic

Paul Groth: s/topoic/topic (warning: replacement failed)

16:05:20 <smiles> Luc: Transition request approved for four new notes: overview, links, dc mapping, and xml

Luc Moreau: Transition request approved for four new notes: overview, links, dc mapping, and xml

16:05:33 <smiles> ... congratulations to editors

... congratulations to editors

16:06:08 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:06:14 <smiles> ivan: Checked with Dennis, who will check the release documents at the weekend, no problem with publication

Ivan Herman: Checked with Dennis, who will check the release documents at the weekend, no problem with publication

16:06:39 <Zakim> + +44.789.470.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.789.470.aacc

16:06:43 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:06:51 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:06:58 <smiles> Luc: May not be available at all times on Monday, Tuesday, to deal with problems

Luc Moreau: May not be available at all times on Monday, Tuesday, to deal with problems

16:07:22 <smiles> ivan: Publication will usually happen Tuesday morning Boston time

Ivan Herman: Publication will usually happen Tuesday morning Boston time

16:07:35 <pgroth> do we need a blog post?

Paul Groth: do we need a blog post?

16:07:36 <smiles> ... need blurb for W3C homepage

... need blurb for W3C homepage

16:07:43 <Zakim> + +329331aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +329331aadd

16:07:52 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:07:53 <TomDN> Zakim, +329 is me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, +329 is me

16:07:54 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN; got it

16:07:59 <smiles> ... once publication is out, blog post would be good

... once publication is out, blog post would be good

16:08:03 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:08:11 <smiles> pgroth: I can prepare a blog post, ready for Tuesday

Paul Groth: I can prepare a blog post, ready for Tuesday

16:08:12 <TomDN> (sorry I'm late, other meeting ran late)

Tom De Nies: (sorry I'm late, other meeting ran late)

16:08:20 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:08:47 <smiles> ivan: Whatever goes to the W3C homepage, I repeat it on the activity blog

Ivan Herman: Whatever goes to the W3C homepage, I repeat it on the activity blog

16:09:04 <smiles> ... so better if one of chairs write this text

... so better if one of chairs write this text

16:09:21 <pgroth> yes

Paul Groth: yes

16:09:24 <smiles> ... could be separate blog post with more details, which can also go to activity blog

... could be separate blog post with more details, which can also go to activity blog

16:10:06 <smiles> pgroth: If something comes up regarding publication, we can directly edit the HTML?

Paul Groth: If something comes up regarding publication, we can directly edit the HTML?

16:10:11 <smiles> ivan: yes

Ivan Herman: yes

16:10:16 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:10:28 <Luc> topic: Getting Things Ready for Implementation

3. Getting Things Ready for Implementation

Summary: The questionnaires need to be mostly ready for the CR transition call on Friday, and final release on Tuesday. Luc will provide urls to concepts. Paul will replicate the questionnaire for the various kinds of implementations. Dong has curated a test suite of 240+ test cases (each of them formatted in rdf, prov-n, xml). The test cases are ready for review by the WG. Jun and Paul will do it as they implement test cases. Paolo and James are invited to look at them (in their absence, action was raised). Issues regarding the submission of the constraints implementation report were discussed, and in particular it is investigated whether a form can support it.

<luc>Summary: The questionnaires need to be mostly ready for the CR transition call on Friday, and final release on Tuesday.  Luc will provide urls to concepts. Paul will replicate the questionnaire for the various kinds of implementations. Dong has curated a test suite of 240+ test cases (each of them formatted in rdf, prov-n, xml).  The test cases are ready for review by the WG. Jun and Paul will do it as they implement test cases. Paolo and James are invited to look at them (in their absence, action was raised). Issues regarding the submission of the constraints implementation report were discussed, and in particular it is investigated whether a form can support it.
16:10:49 <smiles> Luc: There are outstanding questions regarding questionnaire

Luc Moreau: There are outstanding questions regarding questionnaire

16:10:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

16:11:06 <khalidBelhajjame> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me

Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me

16:11:06 <Zakim> +khalidBelhajjame; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidBelhajjame; got it

16:11:15 <smiles> pgroth: Questionnaire has not changed much since last week, couple of things Stefan needs to do

Paul Groth: Questionnaire has not changed much since last week, couple of things Stefan needs to do

16:11:37 <pgroth> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/99999/prov-implementation-survey/?login

Paul Groth: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/99999/prov-implementation-survey/?login

16:11:48 <smiles> ... he has copied three questionnaires into one and added question about PROV constraints

... he has copied three questionnaires into one and added question about PROV constraints

16:12:19 <smiles> ... he still needs to create the other questionnaires

... he still needs to create the other questionnaires

16:12:38 <smiles> ... for different kinds of products: implementation, vocabulary

... for different kinds of products: implementation, vocabulary

16:12:40 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:13:12 <smiles> Luc: questionnaire ready for management telecon tomorrow?

Luc Moreau: questionnaire ready for management telecon tomorrow?

16:13:25 <smiles> ... does not have all links to concepts in CR documents

... does not have all links to concepts in CR documents

16:13:50 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me

16:13:50 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted

16:14:01 <smiles> pgroth: I can update this questionnaire with links

Paul Groth: I can update this questionnaire with links

16:14:20 <smiles> Luc: currently links point to sections, not definitions

Luc Moreau: currently links point to sections, not definitions

16:14:33 <tlebo> q?

Timothy Lebo: q?

16:15:22 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:15:44 <smiles> Luc: Any questions on questionnaires?

Luc Moreau: Any questions on questionnaires?

16:16:07 <Dong> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/testcases/process.html

Trung Huynh: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/testcases/process.html

16:16:15 <smiles> Dong: (regarding test cases) Above are the current documents

Trung Huynh: (regarding test cases) Above are the current documents

16:16:41 <smiles> ... Issues raised by internal reviewers addressed, almost ready to go

... Issues raised by internal reviewers addressed, almost ready to go

16:16:49 <SamCoppens> zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN

Sam Coppens: zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN

16:16:49 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it

16:17:08 <smiles> ... except that test cases missing for some constraints

... except that test cases missing for some constraints

16:18:05 <smiles> Luc: The test cases do not need to be frozen by 11th, need to be good but as others implement we may come up with other examples

Luc Moreau: The test cases do not need to be frozen by 11th, need to be good but as others implement we may come up with other examples

16:18:18 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:18:57 <smiles> Dong: Good. In current version of test case document, we ask people to email results back to us, maybe be better to use questionnaire

Trung Huynh: Good. In current version of test case document, we ask people to email results back to us, maybe be better to use questionnaire

16:19:12 <pgroth> that's a good idea…

Paul Groth: that's a good idea…

16:19:26 <smiles> ... I will see if the questionnaire allows us to have text fields they can copy these into instead

... I will see if the questionnaire allows us to have text fields they can copy these into instead

16:20:07 <smiles> pgroth: Could be possible, but would have to go through test case numbers in WBS

Paul Groth: Could be possible, but would have to go through test case numbers in WBS

16:20:29 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo

16:20:33 <Luc> if you look at the current questionnaire, you have free text boxes

Luc Moreau: if you look at the current questionnaire, you have free text boxes

16:20:44 <smiles> Dong: Do not to intend to list all test cases as options, but just provide big text fields

Trung Huynh: Do not to intend to list all test cases as options, but just provide big text fields

16:21:43 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:22:06 <smiles> Dong: need volunteer reviewers for test case document

Trung Huynh: need volunteer reviewers for test case document

16:22:45 <smiles> Luc: There are a couple of lines with no test cases listed, but for which we do have test cases

Luc Moreau: There are a couple of lines with no test cases listed, but for which we do have test cases

16:22:53 <smiles> Dong: Yes, some to add to test suite

Trung Huynh: Yes, some to add to test suite

16:23:27 <pgroth> +10

Paul Groth: +10

16:23:32 <smiles> Luc: Thanks to Dong for all the work: 240 different tests, for each of 3 serialisations

Luc Moreau: Thanks to Dong for all the work: 240 different tests, for each of 3 serialisations

16:23:44 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:24:02 <smiles> ... Now need reviewers for test cases

... Now need reviewers for test cases

16:24:26 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:24:30 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:24:52 <smiles> pgroth: Can I do it while I implement?

Paul Groth: Can I do it while I implement?

16:25:40 <smiles> Luc: That's fine, though ideally you should not come back on 31 Jan with problem

Luc Moreau: That's fine, though ideally you should not come back on 31 Jan with problem

16:26:15 <smiles> ... will also ask James C to review

... will also ask James C to review

16:26:24 <Luc> action jcheney to review the test cases

Luc Moreau: action jcheney to review the test cases

16:26:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-154 - Review the test cases [on James Cheney - due 2012-12-13].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-154 - Review the test cases [on James Cheney - due 2012-12-13].

16:26:32 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:26:43 <jun> I am in a similar position as Paul

Jun Zhao: I am in a similar position as Paul

16:26:57 <jun> I will review them while implementing them

Jun Zhao: I will review them while implementing them

16:26:59 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:27:02 <pgroth> yes

Paul Groth: yes

16:27:18 <Luc> action paolo to review the test cases

Luc Moreau: action paolo to review the test cases

16:27:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-155 - Review the test cases [on Paolo Missier - due 2012-12-13].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-155 - Review the test cases [on Paolo Missier - due 2012-12-13].

16:27:25 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:27:39 <tlebo> interested, but not willing to commit :-)

Timothy Lebo: interested, but not willing to commit :-)

16:27:54 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:28:05 <smiles> Luc: Anything else regarding implementation?

Luc Moreau: Anything else regarding implementation?

16:28:11 <smiles> ivan: We are ready for tomorrow

Ivan Herman: We are ready for tomorrow

16:28:59 <smiles> ivan: They will review the call sent to the chairs and links on that page

Ivan Herman: They will review the call sent to the chairs and links on that page

16:29:02 <Luc> topic: prov-xml

4. prov-xml

Summary: Stian made a proposal, using substitution groups, to manage the prov namespace, with multiple schema files. The prov-xml editors are invited to review the proposal and try to converge to a solution (action raised against Stephan).

<luc>Summary: Stian made a proposal, using substitution groups, to manage the prov namespace, with multiple schema files.  The prov-xml editors are invited to review the proposal and try to converge to a solution (action raised against Stephan).
16:29:07 <stain> q+

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+

16:29:16 <pgroth> stain

Paul Groth: stain

16:29:36 <stain> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvXMLNamespaces

Stian Soiland-Reyes: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvXMLNamespaces

16:29:41 <smiles> stain: Have investigated namespace issue

Stian Soiland-Reyes: Have investigated namespace issue

16:30:05 <smiles> ... have looked at how to deal with extensions, include or redefine namespaces

... have looked at how to deal with extensions, include or redefine namespaces

16:30:28 <smiles> ... propose use of substitution groups to allow for extensions

... propose use of substitution groups to allow for extensions

16:31:04 <smiles> ... namespace overlap issues become clean, as can reuse same namespace and use xsd:includes

... namespace overlap issues become clean, as can reuse same namespace and use xsd:includes

16:32:10 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:32:15 <smiles> ... need to say something about how others do extensions, manage adding complex type elements with attributes, etc.

... need to say something about how others do extensions, manage adding complex type elements with attributes, etc.

16:32:15 <Luc> ack stain

Luc Moreau: ack stain

16:32:59 <smiles> Luc: do not have editors on call, so cannot make decisions, but can pass Stian's wiki page to initiate debate

Luc Moreau: do not have editors on call, so cannot make decisions, but can pass Stian's wiki page to initiate debate

16:33:00 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:33:26 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:33:33 <Luc> action zednik to review http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvXMLNamespaces and come back with a response

Luc Moreau: action zednik to review http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvXMLNamespaces and come back with a response

16:33:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-156 - Review http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvXMLNamespaces and come back with a response [on Stephan Zednik - due 2012-12-13].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-156 - Review http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvXMLNamespaces and come back with a response [on Stephan Zednik - due 2012-12-13].

16:33:35 <smiles> Luc: Can discuss at next telecon

Luc Moreau: Can discuss at next telecon

16:33:37 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:33:56 <smiles> pgroth: Would be good to get this settled so we can get on with improving the namespace page

Paul Groth: Would be good to get this settled so we can get on with improving the namespace page

16:34:11 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

16:34:12 <stain> q+

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+

16:34:37 <smiles> stain: Last week Tim raised some concerns about same namespaces in OWL and XML

Stian Soiland-Reyes: Last week Tim raised some concerns about same namespaces in OWL and XML

16:34:52 <Luc> ack st

Luc Moreau: ack st

16:35:09 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:35:17 <smiles> tlebo: Haven't yet considered, will do for next week

Timothy Lebo: Haven't yet considered, will do for next week

16:35:46 <smiles> Luc: Thanks Stian for work, we will now digest

Luc Moreau: Thanks Stian for work, we will now digest

16:35:50 <stain> .. specially if we need to leave hooks in the core.xsd

Stian Soiland-Reyes: .. specially if we need to leave hooks in the core.xsd

16:36:12 <smiles> ... Request that current set of issues on XML should be addressed by next release: early February

... Request that current set of issues on XML should be addressed by next release: early February

16:36:16 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:36:17 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:36:50 <stain> and are there any overlaps with elements and predicates?

Stian Soiland-Reyes: and are there any overlaps with elements and predicates?

16:36:52 <Luc> ack iv

Luc Moreau: ack iv

16:36:53 <smiles> ivan: Just checked: OWL 2 has an XML serialisation and uses same namespace as the RDF ontology

Ivan Herman: Just checked: OWL 2 has an XML serialisation and uses same namespace as the RDF ontology

16:37:08 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:37:13 <tlebo> Thanks, @ivan

Timothy Lebo: Thanks, @ivan

16:37:19 <Luc> topic:prov-aq

5. prov-aq

Summary: Extensive editorial changes have taken place during the last week. There are a few issues that need discussion/decision by the group. Graham will initiate discussion by email.

<luc>Summary: Extensive editorial changes have taken place during the last week. There are a few issues that need discussion/decision by the group. Graham will initiate discussion by email.
16:38:02 <smiles> GK: <alien sounds>

Graham Klyne: <alien sounds>

16:38:14 <GK> Ity seedms my outgoping audiop is poor

Graham Klyne: Ity seedms my outgoping audiop is poor

16:38:25 <GK> I'm on an ADSL line, so maybe bandwidth starved

Graham Klyne: I'm on an ADSL line, so maybe bandwidth starved

16:38:35 <Luc> ... alien text too ;-)

Luc Moreau: ... alien text too ;-)

16:38:47 <pgroth> I can do it

Paul Groth: I can do it

16:38:54 <pgroth> and correct me if I'm wrong

Paul Groth: and correct me if I'm wrong

16:38:57 <GK> I have some notes I can paste in:\

Graham Klyne: I have some notes I can paste in:\

16:39:05 <GK> PROV-AQ - draft at: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/paq/prov-aq.html

Graham Klyne: PROV-AQ - draft at: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/paq/prov-aq.html

16:39:05 <GK>

Graham Klyne:

16:39:05 <GK> Has been updated:

Graham Klyne: Has been updated:

16:39:05 <GK>     Change 'provenance information' to 'provenance description' (ISSUE 601); extensive editorial changes should be reviewed

Graham Klyne: Change 'provenance information' to 'provenance description' (ISSUE-601); extensive editorial changes should be reviewed

16:39:05 <GK>     Add note about service description and LDP consideration thereof

Graham Klyne: Add note about service description and LDP consideration thereof

16:39:05 <GK>     Add non-commital paragraph about accessing provenance bundles

Graham Klyne: Add non-commital paragraph about accessing provenance bundles

16:39:05 <GK>     Update forward provenance (pingback) in response to comments; fix text around VoID example

Graham Klyne: Update forward provenance (pingback) in response to comments; fix text around VoID example

16:39:06 <GK>     Added specification for pingback link header (ISSUE 600)

Graham Klyne: Added specification for pingback link header (ISSUE-600)

16:39:06 <GK>     Expanded discussion of provenance service discovery to include prov:hasProvenanceService

Graham Klyne: Expanded discussion of provenance service discovery to include prov:hasProvenanceService

16:39:06 <GK>     Remove speculative non-specification text to be covered in FAQ (ISSUES 426, 598)

Graham Klyne: Remove speculative non-specification text to be covered in FAQ (ISSUES 426, 598)

16:39:07 <GK>     Added section with table of URIs and what they dereference to (ISSUE 424)

Graham Klyne: Added section with table of URIs and what they dereference to (ISSUE-424)

16:39:07 <GK>     Make treatment of direct retrieval and service for provenance access more equally visible (ISSUE 422)

Graham Klyne: Make treatment of direct retrieval and service for provenance access more equally visible (ISSUE-422)

16:39:07 <GK>     Point out that provenance services can accept paraneters other than just 'target' (ISSUE 420)

Graham Klyne: Point out that provenance services can accept paraneters other than just 'target' (ISSUE-420)

16:39:08 <GK>     Added definitions for accessung and locating (ISSUE 417)

Graham Klyne: Added definitions for accessung and locating (ISSUE-417)

16:39:08 <GK>     Added section on Link: headers and content negotiation (ISSUE 416)

Graham Klyne: Added section on Link: headers and content negotiation (ISSUE-416)

16:39:08 <GK>     Added icon to distibguish external links (ISSUE 400)

Graham Klyne: Added icon to distibguish external links (ISSUE-400)

16:39:09 <GK>     Updsate and cross-link table of prov: URIs defined

Graham Klyne: Updsate and cross-link table of prov: URIs defined

16:39:09 <GK>     Changed link relations to URIs; removed IANA considerations section

Graham Klyne: Changed link relations to URIs; removed IANA considerations section

16:39:09 <GK>     Hyperlink concept definitions to themselves (per request from Tim 2012-06-05)

Graham Klyne: Hyperlink concept definitions to themselves (per request from Tim 2012-06-05)

16:39:09 <GK>     Update security considerations with note about use of provenance as part of audit/enforcement mechanism

Graham Klyne: Update security considerations with note about use of provenance as part of audit/enforcement mechanism

16:39:09 <GK>     Update list of PROV documents, copied from PROV-DM

Graham Klyne: Update list of PROV documents, copied from PROV-DM

16:39:09 <GK>     Cut back on verbiage in sect 3,4 rbitrary data

Graham Klyne: Cut back on verbiage in sect 3,4 rbitrary data

16:39:10 <GK>     Revised section 3 descriptions in terms of prodcuers and consumers

Graham Klyne: Revised section 3 descriptions in terms of prodcuers and consumers

16:39:10 <GK>     Updated security considerations to mention audit

Graham Klyne: Updated security considerations to mention audit

16:39:10 <GK>     Add TODO for producer/consumer roles, add note about multiple links, add reference to RFC3986 for %-escaping

Graham Klyne: Add TODO for producer/consumer roles, add note about multiple links, add reference to RFC3986 for %-escaping

16:39:11 <GK>     Update security considerations, note about non-RDF service desription, PROV-O link, acknowledgements

Graham Klyne: Update security considerations, note about non-RDF service desription, PROV-O link, acknowledgements

16:39:17 <GK> The aboce is from the HG log

Graham Klyne: The aboce is from the HG log

16:39:22 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy?

16:39:34 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (47%), ivan (61%), Luc (9%), GK (97%)

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (47%), ivan (61%), Luc (9%), GK (97%)

16:39:36 <MacTed> Zakim, mute gk

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute gk

16:39:36 <Zakim> GK should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: GK should now be muted

16:39:50 <stain> intergalactic issue

Stian Soiland-Reyes: intergalactic issue

16:39:54 <GK> So where we are:

Graham Klyne: So where we are:

16:39:55 <GK> - Most issues have been addressed, pending review

Graham Klyne: - Most issues have been addressed, pending review

16:39:56 <smiles> pgroth: Gone through all the issues, and GK has been addressing them (see changes above)

Paul Groth: Gone through all the issues, and GK has been addressing them (see changes above)

16:39:56 <GK> - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/5

Graham Klyne: - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/5

16:39:56 <GK> - Have review comments from Jun to fold in

Graham Klyne: - Have review comments from Jun to fold in

16:39:56 <GK> - update of OWL document [fragment] is still to do.

Graham Klyne: - update of OWL document [fragment] is still to do.

16:39:56 <GK> - still need to review for use of RFC2119 language (even though non-REC, is still a spec)

Graham Klyne: - still need to review for use of RFC2119 language (even though non-REC, is still a spec)

16:39:56 <GK>

Graham Klyne:

16:40:14 <smiles> pgroth: Still more to do, but should be done by next week (GK?)

Paul Groth: Still more to do, but should be done by next week (GK?)

16:40:18 <GK> Most;y, buy some outstandinmg issues

Graham Klyne: Most;y, buy some outstandinmg issues

16:40:28 <GK> Recent issues:

Graham Klyne: Recent issues:

16:40:28 <GK> - SPARQL endpoint discovery

Graham Klyne: - SPARQL endpoint discovery

16:40:28 <GK> - raised issue with LDP about service description format (http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/425).  I p[ropose to stiock for now with RDF, as that avoids defining yet another data format, and maybe update later to follow LDP recommendations

Graham Klyne: - raised issue with LDP about service description format (http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/425). I p[ropose to stiock for now with RDF, as that avoids defining yet another data format, and maybe update later to follow LDP recommendations

16:40:28 <GK> -- issue of RDF having multiple MIME types (cf. email from Eric Wilde aka @dret)

Graham Klyne: -- issue of RDF having multiple MIME types (cf. email from Eric Wilde aka @dret)

16:40:44 <smiles> pgroth: After that, need to read over

Paul Groth: After that, need to read over

16:41:14 <smiles> Luc: Group will not see doc before Christmas?

Luc Moreau: Group will not see doc before Christmas?

16:41:23 <GK> I think there are issues that can be revioewed; e.g. forward provenance

Graham Klyne: I think there are issues that can be revioewed; e.g. forward provenance

16:41:30 <smiles> pgroth: Yes, there seems no point in doing so, as will not be able to give proper attention

Paul Groth: Yes, there seems no point in doing so, as will not be able to give proper attention

16:41:51 <GK> There';s some discussion about how to handle SPARQL endpoint discovery

Graham Klyne: There';s some discussion about how to handle SPARQL endpoint discovery

16:41:52 <pgroth> yeah, first - second week of january

Paul Groth: yeah, first - second week of january

16:41:59 <smiles> Luc: Early Jan, should have internal review of document

Luc Moreau: Early Jan, should have internal review of document

16:42:06 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:42:12 <GK> q+ to say there are a couple of specific issues to discuss

Graham Klyne: q+ to say there are a couple of specific issues to discuss

16:42:21 <pgroth> will this work...

Paul Groth: will this work...

16:42:26 <Luc> ack gk

Luc Moreau: ack gk

16:42:27 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to say there are a couple of specific issues to discuss

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to say there are a couple of specific issues to discuss

16:42:35 <pgroth> no

Paul Groth: no

16:42:43 <GK> I'

Graham Klyne: I'

16:42:45 <stain> it was good as you said "hang on"

Stian Soiland-Reyes: it was good as you said "hang on"

16:42:54 <stain> perhaps GK really IS in a different galaxy..!

Stian Soiland-Reyes: perhaps GK really IS in a different galaxy..!

16:42:56 <GK> 1. SP{ARQL endpoint discovery - I propose a new link relation

Graham Klyne: 1. SP{ARQL endpoint discovery - I propose a new link relation

16:43:07 <GK> 2. service descrtiption format

Graham Klyne: 2. service descrtiption format

16:43:20 <GK> 3. pingback; aka "forward provenance"

Graham Klyne: 3. pingback; aka "forward provenance"

16:43:32 <GK> These are issuyes where there are substantial changes/new material

Graham Klyne: These are issuyes where there are substantial changes/new material

16:43:36 <pgroth> sounds good

Paul Groth: sounds good

16:43:45 <smiles> Luc: Use mailing list to point out issues to discuss (as GK lists above)

Luc Moreau: Use mailing list to point out issues to discuss (as GK lists above)

16:43:49 <pgroth> perfect

Paul Groth: perfect

16:43:54 <GK> Acxk.  Siounds good.

Graham Klyne: Acxk. Siounds good.

16:44:09 <GK> Ack.

Graham Klyne: Ack.

16:44:12 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:44:18 <Luc> topic: prov-sem

6. prov-sem

Summary: James had produced an update on progress ahead of the meeting. Ivan will approach the math-ml contact to see if there are any tools that may help in converting the document to note format. Tom offered to check whether rules had been properly encoded.

<luc>Summary: James had produced an update  on progress ahead of the meeting. Ivan will approach the math-ml contact to see if there are any tools that may help in converting the document to note format.  Tom offered to check whether rules had been properly encoded.
16:44:19 <pgroth> thanks graham

Paul Groth: thanks graham

16:44:21 <pgroth> !

Paul Groth: !

16:44:27 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Dec/0022.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Dec/0022.html

16:44:52 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/FormalSemanticsED

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/FormalSemanticsED

16:45:02 <smiles> Luc: Had apologies from James, but sent brief update: has been converting the rules into LaTeX/HTML

Luc Moreau: Had apologies from James, but sent brief update: has been converting the rules into LaTeX/HTML

16:45:55 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:45:57 <smiles> ... He asks for (1) people to go through document and check for typos in converting rules, (2) people to help convert into W3C Note style

... He asks for (1) people to go through document and check for typos in converting rules, (2) people to help convert into W3C Note style

16:46:51 <smiles> ivan: Could contact staff contact in MathML group, as they may have experience in publishing formal notation/maths

Ivan Herman: Could contact staff contact in MathML group, as they may have experience in publishing formal notation/maths

16:47:05 <smiles> ... Can forward James' mail

... Can forward James' mail

16:47:41 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:48:00 <smiles> Luc: Anyone else willing to go through the document? Tom?

Luc Moreau: Anyone else willing to go through the document? Tom?

16:48:09 <TomDN> yes

Tom De Nies: yes

16:48:11 <Luc> tom?

Luc Moreau: tom?

16:48:21 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:48:39 <GK> I'll look if I have time

Graham Klyne: I'll look if I have time

16:48:48 <smiles> pgroth: Is it at a state where we would want to show it to others?

Paul Groth: Is it at a state where we would want to show it to others?

16:48:52 <smiles> Luc: No I don't think so

Luc Moreau: No I don't think so

16:48:56 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:49:10 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:49:13 <TomDN> I can take a look at it as reviewer, but cannot actively help with writing

Tom De Nies: I can take a look at it as reviewer, but cannot actively help with writing

16:49:19 <Luc> topic: prov-dictionary

7. prov-dictionary

Summary: Sam and Tom are aiming to produce a version of prov-dictionary by the next telco, ready for an internal review. The aim is to synchronize a FPWD release with proposed recommendations.

<luc>Summary:  Sam and Tom are aiming to produce a version of prov-dictionary by the next telco, ready for an internal review.  The aim is to synchronize a FPWD release with proposed recommendations.
16:49:19 <smiles> Luc: Not formal review yet, see James' mail for what to check

Luc Moreau: Not formal review yet, see James' mail for what to check

16:49:24 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, unmute me

16:49:24 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should no longer be muted

16:49:52 <pgroth> is that too late?

Paul Groth: is that too late?

16:49:54 <smiles> TomDN: Schedule will be as said last week, next version out by next Thursday for internal review

Tom De Nies: Schedule will be as said last week, next version out by next Thursday for internal review

16:50:20 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:50:23 <smiles> Luc: Timing fine for FPWD with proposed recommendations

Luc Moreau: Timing fine for FPWD with proposed recommendations

16:50:40 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:50:44 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me

16:50:44 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted

16:50:52 <smiles> Luc: AOB?

Luc Moreau: AOB?

16:51:00 <tlebo> thanks, bye!

Timothy Lebo: thanks, bye!

16:51:02 <smiles> thanks

thanks

16:51:03 <TomDN> bye

Tom De Nies: bye

16:51:04 <khalidBelhajjame> bye

Khalid Belhajjame: bye

16:51:04 <pgroth> sure

Paul Groth: sure

16:51:10 <Zakim> -TomDN

Zakim IRC Bot: -TomDN

16:51:11 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:51:12 <Zakim> -khalidBelhajjame

Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidBelhajjame

16:51:12 <Dong> bye

Trung Huynh: bye

16:51:14 <Zakim> -tlebo

Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo

16:51:15 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

16:51:15 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo

16:51:18 <GK> Yay!  +10 mins

Graham Klyne: Yay! +10 mins

16:51:18 <jun> bye

Jun Zhao: bye

16:51:19 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth

16:51:20 <GK> Bye

Graham Klyne: Bye

16:51:22 <Zakim> -??P30

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P30

16:51:24 <Zakim> -smiles

Zakim IRC Bot: -smiles

16:51:25 <Zakim> -jun

Zakim IRC Bot: -jun

16:51:26 <Zakim> -Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc

16:51:30 <Zakim> - +44.789.470.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: - +44.789.470.aacc

16:51:33 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public

16:51:40 <Zakim> -GK

Zakim IRC Bot: -GK

16:51:42 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon

Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon

16:51:42 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

16:51:42 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, ivan, Luc, smiles, +1.315.941.aabb, tlebo, jun, MacTed, stain, GK, [IPcaller], +44.789.470.aacc, +329331aadd, TomDN,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, ivan, Luc, smiles, +1.315.941.aabb, tlebo, jun, MacTed, stain, GK, [IPcaller], +44.789.470.aacc, +329331aadd, TomDN,

16:51:43 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes

16:51:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-prov-minutes.html Luc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-prov-minutes.html Luc

16:51:45 <Zakim> ... khalidBelhajjame, SamCoppens, Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: ... khalidBelhajjame, SamCoppens, Satya_Sahoo

16:51:48 <ivan> zakim, drop me

Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me

16:51:48 <Zakim> ivan is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: ivan is being disconnected

16:51:49 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

16:51:49 <Zakim> Attendees were pgroth, ivan, Luc, smiles, +1.315.941.aabb, tlebo, jun, MacTed, stain, GK, [IPcaller], +44.789.470.aacc, +329331aadd, TomDN, khalidBelhajjame, SamCoppens,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were pgroth, ivan, Luc, smiles, +1.315.941.aabb, tlebo, jun, MacTed, stain, GK, [IPcaller], +44.789.470.aacc, +329331aadd, TomDN, khalidBelhajjame, SamCoppens,

16:51:49 <Zakim> ... Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Satya_Sahoo

16:51:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:51:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-prov-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/06-prov-minutes.html trackbot

16:51:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

16:51:51 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items



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