The
*Planet MathML* aggregates posts from various blogs that
concern MathML. Although it is hosted by W3C, the content of the
individual entries represent only the opinion of their respective
authors and **does not reflect the position of
W3C.**

- Fwd: The User Input of Mathematics with Recognition Hints • August 20, 2018
- RE: The User Input of Mathematics with Recognition Hints • August 19, 2018
- The User Input of Mathematics with Recognition Hints • August 18, 2018
- MathOnWeb CG -- meeting minutes 2018-08-16 • August 17, 2018
- Re: Reminder: meeting today • August 16, 2018
- Reminder: meeting today • August 16, 2018
- [math-on-web] a11y TF meeting minutes, 2018/08/13 • August 14, 2018
- Re: MathOnWeb CG -- meeting minutes 2018-07-19 • August 02, 2018
- Re: MathOnWeb CG -- meeting minutes 2018-07-19 • August 02, 2018
- Re: MathOnWeb CG -- meeting minutes 2018-07-19 • August 02, 2018
- Re: MathOnWeb CG -- meeting minutes 2018-07-19 • August 02, 2018
- Re: MathOnWeb CG -- meeting minutes 2018-07-19 • August 02, 2018
- [math-on-web] a11y TF meeting minutes, 2018/07/30 • August 02, 2018
- Integrands, Summands, and Math Function Arguments • July 31, 2018
- [MathOnWeb CG] a11y task force first meeting July 30 • July 24, 2018
- MathOnWeb CG TPAC schedule and list of participants • July 24, 2018
- MathOnWeb CG -- meeting minutes 2018-07-19 • July 24, 2018
- Fwd: Reminder - Re: TPAC 2018 registration now open • July 19, 2018
- Reminder - Re: TPAC 2018 registration now open • July 19, 2018
- Educational Exercises and Activities Community Group Call for Participation • July 18, 2018
**[List of feeds]**

Saw this on another W3C mailing list wanted to make sure you all are seeing this. Charles Begin forwarded message: From: Adam Sobieski <adamsobieski@hotmail.com<mailto:adamsobieski@hotmail.com>> Subject: RE: The User Input of Mathematics with Recognition Hints Date: August 19, 2018 at 2:37:36 AM PDT To: Nick Felker <handnf@gmail.com<mailto:handnf@gmail.com>> Cc: "public-exercises-and-activities@w3.org<mailto:public-exercises-and-activities@w3.org>" <public-exercises-and-activities@w3.org<mailto:public-exercises-and-activities@w3.org>>, "www-math@w3.org<mailto:www-math@w3.org>" <www-math@w3.org<mailto:www-math@w3.org>> Resent-From: <public-exercises-and-activities@w3.org<mailto:public-exercises-and-activities@w3.org>> Nick Felker, Thank you. I’m a proponent of some sort of recognition hints system for mathematics handwriting and speech recognition. Were a recognition hints markup to be, for example, metadata-based, we might envision something resembling: <hints id="hints1"> <meta name="subject" content="msc2010:97H20" /> <meta name="grapheme" content="x" /> <meta name="grapheme" content="y" /> </hints> <input type="math" hints="hints1" /> With regard to mathematical subjects, we could make use of some subset of the Mathematics Subject Classification ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_Subject_Classification , http://msc2010.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=MSC2010 , http://msc2010.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=97-XX ). Recognition hints markup could require expressiveness for, beyond plain text literals, XML literals, to indicate multiple user input possibilities in MathML. In some educational exercises and activities scenarios, multiple user input possibilities can be described a priori (for exercises, multiple expected user inputs might be provided as recognition hints; for quiz and exam items, they might not be provided). We might envision something resembling: <hints id="hints1"> <meta name="subject" content="msc2010:97H20" /> <meta name="grapheme" content="x" /> <meta name="grapheme" content="y" /> <meta name="expected"><math><msup><mrow><mi>x</mi></mrow><mrow><mn>2</mn></mrow></msup><mo>+</mo><msup><mrow><mi>y</mi></mrow><mrow><mn>2</mn></mrow></msup></math></meta> </hints> <input type="math" hints="hints1" /> Best regards, Adam ________________________________ From: Nick Felker <handnf@gmail.com<mailto:handnf@gmail.com>> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:01:50 PM To: adamsobieski@hotmail.com<mailto:adamsobieski@hotmail.com> Cc: public-exercises-and-activities@w3.org<mailto:public-exercises-and-activities@w3.org>; www-math@w3.org<mailto:www-math@w3.org> Subject: Re: The User Input of Mathematics with Recognition Hints I think the input type would be interesting, but I don't know that the hints would be the most standard way of stating the expected format. Other input types<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/input> will just concatenate the specific format at the end. So it'd probably look more like <input type='math-arith'> <input type='math-calc'> etc. Even with this, what data format would the web application receive? That would also need to be standard within the browser so it can be processed. On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 12:23 AM Adam Sobieski <adamsobieski@hotmail.com<mailto:adamsobieski@hotmail.com>> wrote: Educational Exercises and Activities Community Group, Math Working Group, The user input of mathematics is an important topic. With respect to implementation, Web browsers could make use of operating system platform features (see also: touchscreen keyboards and handwriting recognition widgets) as well as third-party services. In addition to user interface widgets utilizable with a mouse and keyboard, mathematics input modalities include handwriting and speech recognition. Contextual recognition hints could enhance the accuracy of both handwriting and speech recognition. Hints for mathematics recognition could include specifying the type of mathematics to be inputted, for instance arithmetic, algebra, geometry, trigonometry or calculus. Hints for mathematics recognition could include specifying expected variables or symbols. Hints for mathematics recognition could include specifying MathML alternatives for expected user inputs. One approach to providing mathematics user input in hypertext documents is to extend the HTML5 <input> element. Form submission data from such <input> elements would be MathML. Mathematics recognition services could make use of the MathML annotation framework to provide recognition results in other formats as well (e.g. AMS-LaTeX). In the approach of extending the HTML5 <input> element while providing hints for mathematics recognition, what might the ideal hypertext document markup resemble? Markup for hints could be nested in <input> elements: <input type="math"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </input> <input type="text-and-math"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </input> <textarea math="true"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </textarea> <matharea> <hint … /> <hint … /> </matharea> Also possible is a technique for hints resembling the HTML5 <datalist> element: <hintlist id="hints1"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </hintlist> <input type="math" hints="hints1" /> <input type="text-and-math" hints="hints1" /> <textarea math="true" hints="hints1" /> <matharea hints="hints1" /> What do you think about the approach of expanding the <input> element to include a mode for mathematics user input? What do you think about the indicated possibilities for providing contextual recognition hints in hypertext document markup? Are there any other approaches and possibilities to consider? Thank you. I look forward to discussing approaches for providing the user input of mathematics with recognition hints. Best regards, Adam Sobieski http://www.phoster.com/contents/

Nick Felker, Thank you. I’m a proponent of some sort of recognition hints system for mathematics handwriting and speech recognition. Were a recognition hints markup to be, for example, metadata-based, we might envision something resembling: <hints id="hints1"> <meta name="subject" content="msc2010:97H20" /> <meta name="grapheme" content="x" /> <meta name="grapheme" content="y" /> </hints> <input type="math" hints="hints1" /> With regard to mathematical subjects, we could make use of some subset of the Mathematics Subject Classification ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_Subject_Classification , http://msc2010.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=MSC2010 , http://msc2010.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=97-XX ). Recognition hints markup could require expressiveness for, beyond plain text literals, XML literals, to indicate multiple user input possibilities in MathML. In some educational exercises and activities scenarios, multiple user input possibilities can be described a priori (for exercises, multiple expected user inputs might be provided as recognition hints; for quiz and exam items, they might not be provided). We might envision something resembling: <hints id="hints1"> <meta name="subject" content="msc2010:97H20" /> <meta name="grapheme" content="x" /> <meta name="grapheme" content="y" /> <meta name="expected"><math><msup><mrow><mi>x</mi></mrow><mrow><mn>2</mn></mrow></msup><mo>+</mo><msup><mrow><mi>y</mi></mrow><mrow><mn>2</mn></mrow></msup></math></meta> </hints> <input type="math" hints="hints1" /> Best regards, Adam ________________________________ From: Nick Felker <handnf@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:01:50 PM To: adamsobieski@hotmail.com Cc: public-exercises-and-activities@w3.org; www-math@w3.org Subject: Re: The User Input of Mathematics with Recognition Hints I think the input type would be interesting, but I don't know that the hints would be the most standard way of stating the expected format. Other input types<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/input> will just concatenate the specific format at the end. So it'd probably look more like <input type='math-arith'> <input type='math-calc'> etc. Even with this, what data format would the web application receive? That would also need to be standard within the browser so it can be processed. On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 12:23 AM Adam Sobieski <adamsobieski@hotmail.com<mailto:adamsobieski@hotmail.com>> wrote: Educational Exercises and Activities Community Group, Math Working Group, The user input of mathematics is an important topic. With respect to implementation, Web browsers could make use of operating system platform features (see also: touchscreen keyboards and handwriting recognition widgets) as well as third-party services. In addition to user interface widgets utilizable with a mouse and keyboard, mathematics input modalities include handwriting and speech recognition. Contextual recognition hints could enhance the accuracy of both handwriting and speech recognition. Hints for mathematics recognition could include specifying the type of mathematics to be inputted, for instance arithmetic, algebra, geometry, trigonometry or calculus. Hints for mathematics recognition could include specifying expected variables or symbols. Hints for mathematics recognition could include specifying MathML alternatives for expected user inputs. One approach to providing mathematics user input in hypertext documents is to extend the HTML5 <input> element. Form submission data from such <input> elements would be MathML. Mathematics recognition services could make use of the MathML annotation framework to provide recognition results in other formats as well (e.g. AMS-LaTeX). In the approach of extending the HTML5 <input> element while providing hints for mathematics recognition, what might the ideal hypertext document markup resemble? Markup for hints could be nested in <input> elements: <input type="math"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </input> <input type="text-and-math"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </input> <textarea math="true"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </textarea> <matharea> <hint … /> <hint … /> </matharea> Also possible is a technique for hints resembling the HTML5 <datalist> element: <hintlist id="hints1"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </hintlist> <input type="math" hints="hints1" /> <input type="text-and-math" hints="hints1" /> <textarea math="true" hints="hints1" /> <matharea hints="hints1" /> What do you think about the approach of expanding the <input> element to include a mode for mathematics user input? What do you think about the indicated possibilities for providing contextual recognition hints in hypertext document markup? Are there any other approaches and possibilities to consider? Thank you. I look forward to discussing approaches for providing the user input of mathematics with recognition hints. Best regards, Adam Sobieski http://www.phoster.com/contents/

Educational Exercises and Activities Community Group, Math Working Group, The user input of mathematics is an important topic. With respect to implementation, Web browsers could make use of operating system platform features (see also: touchscreen keyboards and handwriting recognition widgets) as well as third-party services. In addition to user interface widgets utilizable with a mouse and keyboard, mathematics input modalities include handwriting and speech recognition. Contextual recognition hints could enhance the accuracy of both handwriting and speech recognition. Hints for mathematics recognition could include specifying the type of mathematics to be inputted, for instance arithmetic, algebra, geometry, trigonometry or calculus. Hints for mathematics recognition could include specifying expected variables or symbols. Hints for mathematics recognition could include specifying MathML alternatives for expected user inputs. One approach to providing mathematics user input in hypertext documents is to extend the HTML5 <input> element. Form submission data from such <input> elements would be MathML. Mathematics recognition services could make use of the MathML annotation framework to provide recognition results in other formats as well (e.g. AMS-LaTeX). In the approach of extending the HTML5 <input> element while providing hints for mathematics recognition, what might the ideal hypertext document markup resemble? Markup for hints could be nested in <input> elements: <input type="math"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </input> <input type="text-and-math"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </input> <textarea math="true"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </textarea> <matharea> <hint … /> <hint … /> </matharea> Also possible is a technique for hints resembling the HTML5 <datalist> element: <hintlist id="hints1"> <hint … /> <hint … /> </hintlist> <input type="math" hints="hints1" /> <input type="text-and-math" hints="hints1" /> <textarea math="true" hints="hints1" /> <matharea hints="hints1" /> What do you think about the approach of expanding the <input> element to include a mode for mathematics user input? What do you think about the indicated possibilities for providing contextual recognition hints in hypertext document markup? Are there any other approaches and possibilities to consider? Thank you. I look forward to discussing approaches for providing the user input of mathematics with recognition hints. Best regards, Adam Sobieski http://www.phoster.com/contents/

Hi everyone, Here are the minutes from the meeting on August 16. Best, Peter. # MathOnWeb CG meeting 2018-08-16 * Present: Arno, Volker, Kevin, Peter, Neil * Regrets: Joanie, Charles * Peter: recap a11y TF * [intial call about AAM, second call with good discussion about dictionaries vs heuristics, UX] * Arno: so what canwe prepare for TPAC? * Volker: my main point is that the dictionary approach has been tried repeatedly and failed repeatedly * it seems rational to look for a different approach instead of repeating the same mistake * Arno: what else? * Peter: I'd still like to talk about making aria-tree or grid walking easier, getting things to work for the lightweight walker we build at the workshop * Peter: otherwise, I think the TF is on a good track * Volker: what else could we bring to the ARIA at TPAC? * getting rid of JS for grid/tree walking would be nice * maybe exposing the relevant data directly to AT? * Volker: we should also look at aria tree and grid before that ;-) * Arno: so we should have a goal of having fairly concrete items? * => yes * Peter: there's the "math" AAM, the walking problem, braille annotations/inputs/liveregions * Volker: can we start a page? Google doc? * => yes * Peter: use https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/wiki/MathOnWeb-CG-@-TPAC-2018 ? * Peter: CSS task force needs to get back on track - let's do a similar page? * => yes * [some discussion about upcoming releases] * Arno: with ARIA I'd like to bring up "Braille mixing" in strings * would like to be able to just mix and let AT sort out what's braille and what's speech * Volker: maybe AOM will help here, too? * Arno: the trouble I have with braille-specific labels etc is that you might lose one or the other * I'd rather keep them together * Volker: yes * Peter: any chance they cannot be brought together? (Due to differences in voicing and Braille) * Arno: seems unlikely * Volker: but if so, it's another argument for separate streams * Neil: there's an issue around focus on Braille * also Braille is verbose, multiline braille displays not really on the market / very expensive * Arno: I think one should be able to mix speech and braille as Unicode * if there's both in a string, AT should split them up and send them each way * else AT does its thing * Neil: has anyone talked to AT people? * Volker: brought this up with NVDA at AIM and they had a technical reasons * Arno: talked to Joanie, similar response * ACTIONS: start work on wiki pages for TPAC, collecting resources for CSS and APA/ARIA meetings

Regrets. Conflicting meeting. --joanie On 08/16/2018 11:43 AM, Peter Krautzberger wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Just a quick reminder that we're meeting on August 16 at noon Eastern time. > > Agenda items are listed below -- feel free to add here or later. > > Best, > Peter. > > [1] https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/wiki#dial-in-information > > # Agenda > > * a11y task force recap of first meetings

Hi everyone, Just a quick reminder that we're meeting on August 16 at noon Eastern time. Agenda items are listed below -- feel free to add here or later. Best, Peter. [1] https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/wiki#dial-in-information # Agenda * a11y task force recap of first meetings

Hi everyone, Here are the minutes from the meeting of the accessibility task force this week. Best, Peter. # Accessibility TF meeting, 2018/08/13 * Present: Dani, Peter, Charles, Volker * Charles: after last meeting woes, I have a zoom set up * Peter: does it need an owner present? * Charles: doesn't need to * Peter: great! * let's start with a11y TF and then see * ACTION Charles to send out invite * Peter: Joanie had begun to work out a space on the aria end for the proposed states/roles/properties work * that will allow us to work collaboratively in their space * Dani: let's start the work * Charles: how do we start? Do we go through simple math and list out the things we see? * Dani: that's one way but we need a basic strategy to work it out * e.g., plus sign. What does it mean? It can change a lot from context. * we could look at content mathml, open math dictionaries * but looking at 1+3-2 * do you need at tree or flatten it? * Charles: but if you want to provide overview, then you'll need the tree * to let AT give overview * Charles: unless you want to provide an overview of an equation, which may be relevant but perhaps start with content mathml / openmath and then go from there * Volker: we provide an overview with MathJax and don't need any content mathml etc * why do we need this level of semantics? * Dani: last meeting Joanie proposed to collect roles/state/properties, we thought we start with previous work * Peter: just for the record and transparency, I'm not convinced this is the right approach but I want to support those who pursue it * I think we need to tackle this from the other end: what does AT do today? Mostly it's heuristics and mostly it's terrible. How can content providers help them do a better job? how can specs make their existing process easier? * Volker: imho I think we need a rational reconstruction * dictionaries have been done many times and always fail because we don't have the content * I think we should look at the content that we have and how to get more out of it * we should work on the bridge of the representation * the dictionary can come out of what we can currently get out of heuristic recognition * then we can re-write it to something that we alreayd have in the dictionary or write something else * Dani: I'm thinking about tagging this manually but you think more about the automatic generation * Volker: right * Peter: I'm much closer to Volker. I want to work with real world tools and thus the real world content they digest. * help devs of AT with equation support to do a better job * Dani: heuristics work but it's not perfect and that is one problem * those are two different problems * setting a closed set of properties or helping heuristics * Volker: it's mathematics; it canot be closed. * Charles: re Peter. why do, e.g., aria-labels or extra roles, not work on MathML? Is it just a a spec gap? * Peter: it's because the heuristics cannot make sense of a label or a role. E.g., on an mfrac, some random role will throw a wrench into any heuristics that try to identify if it's a fraction, a binomial, the legendre symbol etc. * Charles: so roles could clarify that * Peter: another example is a role on the + in 3+2-4 ; if we make it a role of something random (say, integral) what will happen? How would AT know how to voice or navigate? * how will the navigation work? how could AT decide? * currently, they can only understand MathML, ignore everything else. * I often come across such cases in real world content production. * Volker: subject area will influence this. E.g., the walk on 2+3-5 may be distinctly different in different areas * Dani: would roles be enough? * Volker: you'd need more than roles * e.g., the light walker we built uses aria-owns etc * Peter: states and properties are ARIA * but not exactly "mathy" or STEM, more general * Dani: but if we need it, we need to talk about it * Peter: sure. Just cautioning that it may feel off topic to ARIA when the starting point was feature parity with MathML * Peter: Dani & Charles: how can we get you started with your approach? * Charles: uncertain. Whenever you try a single expression, you get different results in different AT * unclear if its ambiguity or bugs * Volker: happy to try things out that you throw at SRE * e.g., change operator precendence * Dani: I think we should start with concrete examples * basic examples * be optimistic, make suggestion how to make htem better * Charles: I like that, coming up with example that are ambiguous * Peter: do you need anything beyond https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/ ? * Charles: is this on github.io? * Peter: yes. Just make PRs

Hi, I'm afraid Dani and I failed to coordinate to set up an alternative. I'm on vacation and without a workable connection to get Google meet to let everyone join. Sorry about this. Let's reconvene in two weeks. Peter. On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 18:09 Arno Gourdol <arno@arno.org> wrote: > It the meetin at https://meet.google.com/vwa-hqhi-hre? > > I'm trying to join, but I nobody is letting me in? Or did we cancel today? > I know Peter was having connection issues last Monday for the CSS TF... > > Best, > Arno. > > On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 18:00 Volker Sorge <volker.sorge@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Apologies for today's meeting. I'm on holidays and have very poor >> internet connection. >> Volker >> >> On Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 9:57 am Peter Krautzberger, <peter@krautzource.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> Here are the minutes from the meeting on July 19. >>> >>> Best, >>> Peter. >>> >>> >>> # MathOnWeb CG meeting 2018/07/19 >>> >>> * Agenda >>> * a11y task force: plan first meeting >>> * TPAC 2018 planning >>> * Present >>> * Peter, Joanie, Kevin, Charles, Volker >>> * Regrets: Arno, Dani >>> * task: a11y TF >>> * date: every other Monday, 11am Eastern, starting July 30, 2018 >>> * TPAC >>> * times now fixed https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/issues/32 >>> * APA/ARIA in the morning, >>> * CSS in the afternoon >>> * then our time slot >>> * CSS TF update >>> * a bit slower due to summer >>> * organizing the content, creating list of priorities for TPAC CSSWG >>> meeting >>> * Charles: who will be at TPAC? public list? >>> * Peter: no. let's make github wiki page >>> * Charles: TPAC meeting with APA includes ARIA? >>> * Joanie: yes. We just had to sort out space. Janina kindly traded >>> some time slots >>> >>>

I sent mail to Peter about 10 minutes before the potential meeting asking if we were going to have one and never heard back. I'm assuming the answer is no meeting On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 9:09 AM Arno Gourdol <arno@arno.org> wrote: > It the meetin at https://meet.google.com/vwa-hqhi-hre? > > I'm trying to join, but I nobody is letting me in? Or did we cancel today? > I know Peter was having connection issues last Monday for the CSS TF... > > Best, > Arno. > > On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 18:00 Volker Sorge <volker.sorge@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Apologies for today's meeting. I'm on holidays and have very poor >> internet connection. >> Volker >> >> On Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 9:57 am Peter Krautzberger, <peter@krautzource.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> Here are the minutes from the meeting on July 19. >>> >>> Best, >>> Peter. >>> >>> >>> # MathOnWeb CG meeting 2018/07/19 >>> >>> * Agenda >>> * a11y task force: plan first meeting >>> * TPAC 2018 planning >>> * Present >>> * Peter, Joanie, Kevin, Charles, Volker >>> * Regrets: Arno, Dani >>> * task: a11y TF >>> * date: every other Monday, 11am Eastern, starting July 30, 2018 >>> * TPAC >>> * times now fixed https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/issues/32 >>> * APA/ARIA in the morning, >>> * CSS in the afternoon >>> * then our time slot >>> * CSS TF update >>> * a bit slower due to summer >>> * organizing the content, creating list of priorities for TPAC CSSWG >>> meeting >>> * Charles: who will be at TPAC? public list? >>> * Peter: no. let's make github wiki page >>> * Charles: TPAC meeting with APA includes ARIA? >>> * Joanie: yes. We just had to sort out space. Janina kindly traded >>> some time slots >>> >>>

It the meetin at https://meet.google.com/vwa-hqhi-hre? I'm trying to join, but I nobody is letting me in? Or did we cancel today? I know Peter was having connection issues last Monday for the CSS TF... Best, Arno. On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 18:00 Volker Sorge <volker.sorge@gmail.com> wrote: > Apologies for today's meeting. I'm on holidays and have very poor internet > connection. > Volker > > On Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 9:57 am Peter Krautzberger, <peter@krautzource.com> > wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> Here are the minutes from the meeting on July 19. >> >> Best, >> Peter. >> >> >> # MathOnWeb CG meeting 2018/07/19 >> >> * Agenda >> * a11y task force: plan first meeting >> * TPAC 2018 planning >> * Present >> * Peter, Joanie, Kevin, Charles, Volker >> * Regrets: Arno, Dani >> * task: a11y TF >> * date: every other Monday, 11am Eastern, starting July 30, 2018 >> * TPAC >> * times now fixed https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/issues/32 >> * APA/ARIA in the morning, >> * CSS in the afternoon >> * then our time slot >> * CSS TF update >> * a bit slower due to summer >> * organizing the content, creating list of priorities for TPAC CSSWG >> meeting >> * Charles: who will be at TPAC? public list? >> * Peter: no. let's make github wiki page >> * Charles: TPAC meeting with APA includes ARIA? >> * Joanie: yes. We just had to sort out space. Janina kindly traded some >> time slots >> >>

Are we having a meeting today? --joanie On 08/02/2018 11:59 AM, Volker Sorge wrote: > Apologies for today's meeting. I'm on holidays and have very poor > internet connection. > Volker > > On Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 9:57 am Peter Krautzberger, <peter@krautzource.com > <mailto:peter@krautzource.com>> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Here are the minutes from the meeting on July 19. > > Best, > Peter. > > > # MathOnWeb CG meeting 2018/07/19 > > * Agenda > * a11y task force: plan first meeting > * TPAC 2018 planning > * Present > * Peter, Joanie, Kevin, Charles, Volker > * Regrets: Arno, Dani > * task: a11y TF > * date: every other Monday, 11am Eastern, starting July 30, 2018 > * TPAC > * times now fixed https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/issues/32 > * APA/ARIA in the morning, > * CSS in the afternoon > * then our time slot > * CSS TF update > * a bit slower due to summer > * organizing the content, creating list of priorities for TPAC > CSSWG meeting > * Charles: who will be at TPAC? public list? > * Peter: no. let's make github wiki page > * Charles: TPAC meeting with APA includes ARIA? > * Joanie: yes. We just had to sort out space. Janina kindly traded > some time slots >

Apologies for today's meeting. I'm on holidays and have very poor internet connection. Volker On Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 9:57 am Peter Krautzberger, <peter@krautzource.com> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Here are the minutes from the meeting on July 19. > > Best, > Peter. > > > # MathOnWeb CG meeting 2018/07/19 > > * Agenda > * a11y task force: plan first meeting > * TPAC 2018 planning > * Present > * Peter, Joanie, Kevin, Charles, Volker > * Regrets: Arno, Dani > * task: a11y TF > * date: every other Monday, 11am Eastern, starting July 30, 2018 > * TPAC > * times now fixed https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/issues/32 > * APA/ARIA in the morning, > * CSS in the afternoon > * then our time slot > * CSS TF update > * a bit slower due to summer > * organizing the content, creating list of priorities for TPAC CSSWG > meeting > * Charles: who will be at TPAC? public list? > * Peter: no. let's make github wiki page > * Charles: TPAC meeting with APA includes ARIA? > * Joanie: yes. We just had to sort out space. Janina kindly traded some > time slots > >

Hi everyone, Here are the minutes from the first meeting of the accessibility task force this week. Best, Peter. # Accessibility TF meeting, 2018/07/30 * present: Peter, Joanie, Charles, Steve, Kevin * regrets: Volker * getting started: recap a11y workshop * Charles: I was working on a blog post and followed up with Sina on video&audio from workshop "Room 4" * but got sidetracked * were there any other? * Peter: I did one on custom aria attributes (Joanie's suggestion that we didn't get around to) * I plan one for Volker&David * workshop report at https://aimath.org/pastworkshops/webmath.html * There's https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/issues/35 * https://github.com/zorkow/AIM-Workshop/issues/13 * Joanie: I did some more triage * aria#659 (SSML) crossed out b/c APA meeting decided to incubate this * so should be happening but not in ARIA land * aria#660: what roles do we need to support math * possible tasks: do we need roles/states/properties and if yes, which ones? * this could be a major work item for this task force * we don't have anything but math role but that's is useless * maybe add something for fraction/numerator/denominator * Charles: so if we had fraction roles that would work automatically for MatHML * Joanie: we'd probably need a separate spec, a Math AAM * that would be a spec that would tell the a11y APIs * then it would be independent of markup format * I'd work with whoever is tasked to write a spec-like thing * Peter: ACTION the minutes should reflect that there is need for people to work on this * Peter: about aria#765 * that's a big missing piece I think * Joanie: I'll keep an eye on this * Peter: anything else we can do? searching for more use cases? * Joanie: there's the ruby test example from my co-chair * ETS may have examples as well * Charles: aria#767 is that personalization? * Joanie: I commented that I don't think it is * Charles: so personalization perhaps later * Charles: the others we discussed at workshop? * Peter: in AIMworkshop#13, further down * Joanie: things like live region just need implementation, no real spec work * Joanie: Jim Nurthen targeted braille input for ARIA 2.0 * that may seem far away but we have to be realistic in scope, since W3C timelines are what they are * Charles: we have a direct interest via our editor * Joanie: member reps should be vocal * Peter: thinking about default walkers for ARIA grid or tree like ARIA table * [communications breakdown] * Charles: how would we proceed with roles/states/properties? * Joanie: start with a list * then we can start discussing these with WG * take spec template * Charles: can as CG work with respec? * Joanie: I'd say don't worry about it right now. * Charles: would need a math person for this * Joanie: will be two specs due to mappings * Dani: also interested * Charles: can we use the next meeting for this? * sounds good.

The Microsoft OfficeMath object model (OMML)
dedicates explicit arguments for integrands, summands and other
*N*-aryands, as well as for math functions such as
trigonometric functions and subscript/superscript bases. Having
such arguments aids in calculating the correct math spacing and
reveals the math content more precisely. However, other math
models, such as LaTeX,
Presentation
MathML and
Nemeth math braille, do not have these arguments. This post
gives best practice to identify *N*-aryands and
math-function arguments in those formats. It also gives heuristics
for choosing reasonable arguments in the absence of such best
practice. Similar heuristics are used to choose the
bases of subscript and superscript objects for UnicodeMath.

Format |
N-aryand |
Math function arg |
Sub/sup base |

OMML | explicit | explicit | explicit |

Presentation MathML | no | no | explicit |

Content MathML | explicit | explicit | explicit |

[La]TeX | no | no | no |

UnicodeMath | explicit or implied | explicit or implied | explicit or implied |

MathType/Equation Editor | explicit | no | no |

Nemeth math braille | no | no | no |

It’s clear that a math function argument or an *N*-aryand
should include the first entity that follows the base object. For
example, for sin 𝑥, 𝑥 is the argument. Or for the summation (in
Nemeth math braille ⠐⠨⠠⠎⠩⠝⠀⠨⠅⠀⠴⠣⠠⠝⠻⠁⠰⠝⠐)

𝑎_{𝑛} is the summand. But what about the integral
(⠮⠰⠴⠘⠠⠿⠐⠑⠘⠤⠭⠘⠘⠆⠐⠙⠭)

If you only include the exponential (⠑⠘⠤⠭⠘⠘⠆⠐), you omit the 𝑑𝑥.

Ideally the *N-*aryand is delimited explicitly.
Presentation MathML has the <mrow> entity which can contain
multiple MathML entities. A natural way to represent a math
function argument or an *N*-aryand is to put them inside
<mrow>…</mrow> as in (omitting mml: prefix and xmlns
field)

<math> <msubsup> <mo stretchy="false">∫</mo> <mn>0</mn> <mo>∞</mo> </msubsup> <mrow> <msup> <mi>e</mi> <mrow> <mo>−</mo> <msup> <mi>x</mi> <mn>2</mn> </msup> </mrow> </msup> <mi>d</mi> <mi>x</mi> </mrow> </math>

In [La]TeX, enclose the *N*-aryand in {…} as in
\int_0^\infty{e^{-x^2}dx}. Notice how much more concise [La]TeX is.
Delimiting *N*-aryands in these ways constitutes best
practice. It’s also best practice to delimit math function
arguments these ways in MathML and LaTeX.

When the *N*-aryand isn’t delimited explicitly by
notation such as <mrow>…</mrow>, the first math object
following the *N-*ary operator (with limits) should be part
of the integrand. If this object is a delimiter object, such as {…}
(\{…\} in TeX), a compound *N*-aryand is well defined. But
if it’s a concatenation of math objects as in the integral
(⠮⠰⠴⠘⠠⠿⠐⠑⠘⠤⠭⠘⠘⠆⠐⠙⠭)it’s more than just the first object. It’s
tempting to choose the concatenation of objects up to a binary
operator of precedence of addition or to the end of the expression,
whichever comes first. Such concatenation gives the correct result
in this case. UnicodeMath has the concept of an argument that
consists of such concatenations. This would also work for Nemeth
math braille, which has no way of delimiting *N*-aryands or
function arguments explicitly.

UnicodeMath attempts to look like a math notation as closely as
a linear format can. But when an expression becomes too ambiguous,
UnicodeMath
encloses the expression in lenticular brackets 〖…〗(see Sec. 3.4 of
that reference). As such, the integral above is written as
∫_0^∞▒〖e^(-x^2 ) dx〗in UnicodeMath. Here ▒ is the “glue” operator
that connects the *N*-aryand to its large *N*-ary
operator. But clearly UnicodeMath could use its definition of an
argument to get the correct integrand in this case. I didn't code
this refinement up for Office applications because the input method
automatically puts the insertion point into the integrand as soon
as a space builds up the integral operator. The same approach is
used for entering function arguments. This makes it easy to type
sin x+y, where x+y is the argument of the sine. To get out of the
*N*-aryand or function argument, the user types an arrow key
or clicks a mouse button. In the absence of the glue operator, it
does seem like a good idea for UnicodeMath to capture a
concatenation of objects for a *N*-aryand as it does for
arguments of fractions, subscripts, etc.

Hi, As per the last CG meeting, the a11y task force will meet every other Monday, 11am Eastern, beginning July 30, 2018 Dial-in information can be found on the GitHub wiki [1]. Best, Peter. [1] https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/wiki/MathOnWeb-CG-Taks-Forces-meeting-info#a11y-task-force

Hi everyone, As per the last meeting, we've created a wiki page [1] with all meeting times as well as a list of confirmed participants. Please add your name to the list if you are coming to TPAC. All meetings are on Monday, Oct 22. Best, Peter. [1] https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/wiki/MathOnWeb-CG-@-TPAC-2018

Hi everyone, Here are the minutes from the meeting on July 19. Best, Peter. # MathOnWeb CG meeting 2018/07/19 * Agenda * a11y task force: plan first meeting * TPAC 2018 planning * Present * Peter, Joanie, Kevin, Charles, Volker * Regrets: Arno, Dani * task: a11y TF * date: every other Monday, 11am Eastern, starting July 30, 2018 * TPAC * times now fixed https://github.com/w3c/mathonwebpages/issues/32 * APA/ARIA in the morning, * CSS in the afternoon * then our time slot * CSS TF update * a bit slower due to summer * organizing the content, creating list of priorities for TPAC CSSWG meeting * Charles: who will be at TPAC? public list? * Peter: no. let's make github wiki page * Charles: TPAC meeting with APA includes ARIA? * Joanie: yes. We just had to sort out space. Janina kindly traded some time slots

Hi CG, As they say, the early bird catches the web standard. Best, Peter. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alexandra Lacourba <alex@w3.org> Date: 2018-07-19 15:25 GMT+02:00 Subject: Reminder - Re: TPAC 2018 registration now open To: w3c-ac-forum@w3.org, chairs@w3.org Cc: tp <w3t-tpregister@w3.org> 12 days left to benefit from the TPAC 2018 early bird rate! Further information available at: https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/Overview.html#registration Best regards, Alexandra. On 06/07/2018 12:28, Alexandra Lacourba wrote: Dear Advisory Committee Representative, Chairs, Working Groups and Community Groups who signed up to meet (bcc’ed), This is to remind you that the early bird rate (EUR 92 - EUR 110 with VAT) will expire in 25 days, on 31 July 2018. Please see registration information below. We would also like to know if attendees would be interested in having a childcare opportunity during TPAC 2018. If you would like to have one, please send a message to w3t-tpregister@w3.org stating the number of children and their age. Please note that nothing is confirmed at this point. The goal here is to gather the requests and have a clearer vision of the needs. Best regards, Alexandra On 14/06/2018 14:30, Coralie Mercier wrote: Dear Advisory Committee Representative, Chairs, Working Group and Community Groups who signed up to meet (bcc’ed), Registration for TPAC is now open: TPAC 2018 22 - 26 October 2018 Cité Centre de Congrès de Lyon Lyon, France https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/ **Chairs, please be sure to remind participants in your groups to register. We will seek additional information from Chairs closer to the meeting regarding audio visual needs and other requests.** Please read carefully the information below: ------------------------------------------ Registration ------------------------------------------ There is a daily registration fee. The per person, per day fee is: Early Bird rate (until 31 Jul): EUR 92 (EUR 110 with VAT) Standard rate (until 30 Sep): EUR 135 (EUR 160 with VAT) Late/on-site rate (starting 1 Oct): EUR 170 (EUR 205 with VAT) This year we are creating an Invited Expert Fund to help support Invited Experts who participate actively in W3C groups and who request financial support to attend TPAC. We hope attendees recognize the value of supporting IEs and will agree to a nominal 5% fee addition to the above rates, however there is the ability to opt out. As in the past, registration is a two-step process: 1) A WBS form for meeting and dietary information https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2018/ 2) A payment system https://www.w3.org/2016/04/payment/tpac.php For more information about registration fees and the payment system, see: https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/Overview.html#registration Please note that registration is not complete until payment has been made. ------------------------------------------ Accommodation ------------------------------------------ W3C has arranged discount room rates from 20/21 (check-in) until 26 October 2018 September (check-out) with different hotels. As usual we strongly recommend you to make hotel reservations before the end of the summer period. For booking tips and more information about hotels, see: https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/Hotels-Transportation.html ------------------------------------------ Plenary Day 2018 (Unconference) ------------------------------------------ Plenary Day 2018 consists of unconference breakouts for TPAC participants. https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2018 We invite attendees to suggest breakout sessions via the wiki: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2018/SessionIdeas ------------------------------------------- Group Meetings / Advisory Committee Meeting ------------------------------------------- Group Meetings Schedule: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday: * 08:30-18:00: Traditional Group face-to-face meetings * 12:00-14:00: Lunch (each group will determine their lunch time) This year again we have scheduled the AC Meeting towards the end of the day from 15:00 to 18:00 on Tuesday and Thursday afternoon. We hope this will minimize the likelihood of conflicts with group meetings. ------------------------------------------ Remote participation ------------------------------------------ Working/Interest/Business Groups may request telephone access for remote participants. This year again, we plan to use MIT's webex system. If you plan to attend the Advisory Committee Meeting remotely, please let us know on <acregister@w3.org> <acregister@w3.org>. IRC will be available for all meetings. For any questions, please contact <w3t-tpregister@w3.org> <w3t-tpregister@w3.org>. With kind regards, Coralie Mercier, Head of W3C Marketing & Communications -- Coralie Mercier - W3C Marketing & Communications - https://www.w3.orgmailto:coralie@w3.org <coralie@w3.org> +337 810 795 22 https://www.w3.org/People/CMercier/ -- Alexandra Lacourba - Administration mailto:alex@w3.org <alex@w3.org> World Wide Web Consortium http://www.w3.org W3C/ERCIM - 2004 route des Lucioles - Sophia Antipolis 06410 Biot - FR <https://maps.google.com/?q=2004+route+des+Lucioles+-+Sophia+Antipolis+06410+Biot+-+FR&entry=gmail&source=g> Voice: +33.4.92.38.50.76 Fax: +33.4.92.38.78.22 -- Alexandra Lacourba - Administration mailto:alex@w3.org <alex@w3.org> World Wide Web Consortium http://www.w3.org W3C/ERCIM - 2004 route des Lucioles - Sophia Antipolis 06410 Biot - FR <https://maps.google.com/?q=2004+route+des+Lucioles+-+Sophia+Antipolis+06410+Biot+-+FR&entry=gmail&source=g> Voice: +33.4.92.38.50.76 Fax: +33.4.92.38.78.22

12 days left to benefit from the TPAC 2018 early bird rate! Further information available at: https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/Overview.html#registration Best regards, Alexandra. On 06/07/2018 12:28, Alexandra Lacourba wrote: > Dear Advisory Committee Representative, > Chairs, Working Groups and Community Groups who signed up to meet > (bcc’ed), > > This is to remind you that the early bird rate (EUR 92 - EUR 110 with > VAT) will expire in 25 days, on 31 July 2018. > Please see registration information below. > > We would also like to know if attendees would be interested in having > a childcare opportunity during TPAC 2018. > > If you would like to have one, please send a message to > w3t-tpregister@w3.org stating the number of children and their age. > Please note that nothing is confirmed at this point. The goal here is > to gather the requests and have a clearer vision of the needs. > > Best regards, > Alexandra > > On 14/06/2018 14:30, Coralie Mercier wrote: >> Dear Advisory Committee Representative, >> Chairs, >> Working Group and Community Groups who signed up to meet (bcc’ed), >> >> >> Registration for TPAC is now open: >> >> TPAC 2018 >> 22 - 26 October 2018 >> Cité Centre de Congrès de Lyon >> Lyon, France >> https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/ >> >> >> **Chairs, please be sure to remind participants in your groups to register. >> We will seek additional information from Chairs closer to the meeting regarding audio visual needs and other requests.** >> >> Please read carefully the information below: >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> Registration >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> There is a daily registration fee. The per person, per day fee is: >> Early Bird rate (until 31 Jul): EUR 92 (EUR 110 with VAT) >> Standard rate (until 30 Sep): EUR 135 (EUR 160 with VAT) >> Late/on-site rate (starting 1 Oct): EUR 170 (EUR 205 with VAT) >> >> This year we are creating an Invited Expert Fund to help support Invited Experts who participate actively in W3C groups and who request financial support to attend TPAC. We hope attendees recognize the value of supporting IEs and will agree to a nominal 5% fee addition to the above rates, however there is the ability to opt out. >> >> As in the past, registration is a two-step process: >> >> 1) A WBS form for meeting and dietary information >> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2018/ >> >> 2) A payment system >> https://www.w3.org/2016/04/payment/tpac.php >> >> >> For more information about registration fees and the payment system, see: >> https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/Overview.html#registration >> >> >> Please note that registration is not complete until payment has been made. >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> Accommodation >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> W3C has arranged discount room rates from 20/21 (check-in) until 26 October 2018 September (check-out) >> with different hotels. >> As usual we strongly recommend you to make hotel reservations before the end of the summer period. >> For booking tips and more information about hotels, see: >> https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/Hotels-Transportation.html >> >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> Plenary Day 2018 (Unconference) >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> Plenary Day 2018 consists of unconference breakouts for TPAC participants. >> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2018 >> >> We invite attendees to suggest breakout sessions via the wiki: >> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2018/SessionIdeas >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> Group Meetings / Advisory Committee Meeting >> ------------------------------------------- >> >> Group Meetings Schedule: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday: >> >> * 08:30-18:00: Traditional Group face-to-face meetings >> * 12:00-14:00: Lunch (each group will determine their lunch time) >> >> This year again we have scheduled the AC Meeting towards the end of the day from 15:00 to 18:00 on Tuesday and Thursday afternoon. We hope this will minimize the likelihood of conflicts with group meetings. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> Remote participation >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> Working/Interest/Business Groups may request telephone access for remote participants. This year again, we plan to use MIT's webex system. >> >> If you plan to attend the Advisory Committee Meeting remotely, please let us know on<acregister@w3.org>. >> >> IRC will be available for all meetings. >> >> >> For any questions, please contact<w3t-tpregister@w3.org>. >> >> >> With kind regards, >> Coralie Mercier, Head of W3C Marketing & Communications >> >> >> -- >> Coralie Mercier - W3C Marketing & Communications -https://www.w3.org >> mailto:coralie@w3.org +337 810 795 22https://www.w3.org/People/CMercier/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Alexandra Lacourba - Administration mailto:alex@w3.org > World Wide Web Consortium http://www.w3.org > W3C/ERCIM - 2004 route des Lucioles - Sophia Antipolis 06410 Biot - FR > Voice: +33.4.92.38.50.76 Fax: +33.4.92.38.78.22 -- Alexandra Lacourba - Administration mailto:alex@w3.org World Wide Web Consortium http://www.w3.org W3C/ERCIM - 2004 route des Lucioles - Sophia Antipolis 06410 Biot - FR Voice: +33.4.92.38.50.76 Fax: +33.4.92.38.78.22

Math Working Group, A new W3C Community Group has launched: the Educational Exercises and Activities Community Group. The group’s mission is to develop standards for educational exercises and activities and to make recommendations with regard to other standards. The group’s Web page: https://www.w3.org/community/exercises-and-activities/ . With respect to educational exercises and activities, a large number of scenarios are to be considered. Educational exercises and activities can be URL-addressable Web resources, resources in learning objects, resources in digital textbooks, and the items of quizzes and exams. Varieties of educational exercises of activities under discussion range from multiple choice questions to those having WebGL 3D graphics and mathematics handwriting recognition. Educational exercises and activities can be made modular, portable and reusable. I would like to invite you to join the group. In order to join the group, you will need a W3C account. To create a W3C account: https://www.w3.org/accounts/request . To join the group: https://www.w3.org/community/exercises-and-activities/join . Best regards, Adam Sobieski http://www.phoster.com/contents/

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