Planet MathML

The Planet MathML aggregates posts from various blogs that concern MathML. Although it is hosted by W3C, the content of the individual entries represent only the opinion of their respective authors and does not reflect the position of W3C.

Latest articles

Nemeth Braille Alphanumerics and Unicode Math Alphanumerics

Source: Murray Sargent: Math in Office • MurrayS3 • August 26, 2016 • Permalink

Both Unicode and Nemeth braille include sets of math alphanumerics. Section 2.2 of Unicode Technical Report #25 discusses the math alphanumerics and why they’re important for math. In particular, Microsoft Office math zones use math alphabetics for most variables and the math digit sets are supported as well. Accordingly, we need mappings between Unicode and Nemeth braille math alphanumerics. This post describes the mappings and discusses how to resolve some incompatibilities between the two standards.

Mappings

For the most part, the mappings are straightforward as illustrated in the table below. But due to its generative use of type-form and alphabetic indicators, Nemeth braille encodes some math alphabets not in Unicode, e.g., Greek Script and Russian Script. Meanwhile, Unicode has math double-struck and monospace English alphanumerics, which don’t exist in Nemeth braille. Unicode also has six alphabets that aren’t mentioned in the Nemeth specification but that can be defined unambiguously with Nemeth indicators, namely bold Fraktur (Nemeth calls Fraktur “German”), bold Script, and Sans Serif bold and/or italic. The table below includes unambiguous prefixes for these alphabets chosen such that the Nemeth bold indicator precedes the italic or script indicators, and the Sans Serif indicator precedes the bold indicator. These choices correspond to the orders in which the Unicode math alphabets are named. Changes in this ordering result in alternative prefixes that are also unambiguous, but it seems simpler for implementations and users to standardize on the Unicode name ordering.

Nemeth Alphabetics

 

Greek Alternative Letters

The Nemeth specification has Script Greek (in §22) as well as “alternative” Greek letters (in §23). Some of the latter may be referred to as “script”. Specifically, the Unicode math Greek italic letters 𝜃𝜙𝜖𝜌𝜋𝜅 have the alternative counterparts 𝜗𝜑𝜀𝜚𝜛𝜘, respectively. The symbol 𝜗 can be called “script theta”. Since Unicode doesn’t have a math script Greek alphabet, it makes sense to map Nemeth math script Greek letters to the alternative Greek letters, if they exist, on input and use the Nemeth alternative notation on output. In addition, in Unicode the upper-case Θ has the alternative ϴ. In TeX and Office math, the alternative letters are identified by control words with a “var” prefix, as in \varepsilon for 𝜀 as contrasted with \epsilon for ϵ. Interestingly, modern Greek uses 𝜑 and 𝜀 instead of 𝜙 and 𝜖, but math considers the script versions to be the alternatives.

Russian Letters

Nemeth braille has several Russian alphabets (see §22 of the Nemeth spec). These alphabets map to characters in the Cyrillic range U+0410..U+044F. Unicode has no math Russian alphabets, but italic and bold Russian alphabets can be emulated using the appropriate Cyrillic characters along with the desired italic and bold formatting. The Unicode Technical Committee, which is responsible for the Unicode Standard, has not received any proposals for adding Russian math alphabets. At least in my experience, technical papers in Russian use English and Greek letters in math zones. In Russian documents, this has the nice advantage of easily distinguishing mathematical variables from normal text.

Hebrew Letters

Unicode has four predefined Hebrew characters in the Letterlike Symbols range U+2135..U+2138: ℵ, ℶ, ℷ, ℸ, respectively. In math contexts, it makes sense to map those Hebrew letters in Nemeth braille to the Letterlike Symbols and to map the other Nemeth Hebrew letters to characters in the Unicode Hebrew range U+05D0..U+05EA. The Unicode Technical Committee has not received any proposals for adding more Hebrew math letters so they probably won’t appear in math zones, except, perhaps, as embedded normal text.

Math Digits

The majority of Unicode math digits can be represented by the appropriate type-form indicator sequences in the table above followed by the numeric indicator ⠼ (if necessary) and the corresponding ASCII digits. For example, a math bold 2 (𝟐—U+1D7D0) can be represented by ⠸ ⠼ ⠆ or “_#2”. This works for the bold and/or sans-serif digits, but not for the double-struck and monospace digits, which have no Nemeth counterparts. Meanwhile Nemeth notation supports italic and bold italic digits, which aren’t in Unicode.

Some math contexts don’t need a numeric indicator, e.g., most digits in fractions, subscripts or superscripts. To optimize common numeric subscript expressions like a1, the numeric indicator and the subscript indicator are omitted. In Nemeth ASCII braille, a1 is “A1” and in Nemeth braille it’s ⠁ ⠂ . The ASCII braille representation is tantalizing since variables like A1, B2, etc., are used to index spreadsheets and it would be more natural if spreadsheet indices were a1, b2, etc., at least for people with a mathematical background.

Conclusions

In general, Unicode’s math characters are simpler to work with since they can be assigned separate character codes instead of being composed as combinations of 64 braille codes. Unicode has about 2310 math characters (see Math property in DerivedCoreProperties.txt) and to distinguish all of those without indicators would require 12-dot braille! Such a system would be really hard to learn. LaTeX describes characters using control words consisting of a backslash followed by combinations of the 64 ASCII letters. That approach has mnemonic value, but it’s not as concise as the Nemeth braille character code sequences. When you get a feel for the Nemeth approach, a character’s Nemeth sequence gives a good idea of what a character is even if you haven’t encountered it before. UnicodeMath and Nemeth braille are intended to be read by human beings, whereas LaTeX and MathML are intended to be read by computer programs, notwithstanding that some TeXies can read LaTeX pretty fluently! Considering that Unicode math alphabets like double-struck and monospace aren’t yet defined in Nemeth braille, it would be worthwhile to choose appropriate type-form indicators for them. Nemeth math alphabets not in Unicode probably don’t have to be considered unless they show up in published documents.

 

Re: reminder: next meeting tomorrow, Thursday, August 25, 6pm UTC

Source: public-mathonwebpages@w3.org Mail Archives • Ivan Herman (ivan@w3.org) • August 25, 2016 • Permalink

Probable regrets, too. It is difficult to combine that timing with other family things…

Ivan

> On 24 Aug 2016, at 20:32, Peter Krautzberger <peter.krautzberger@mathjax.org> wrote:
> 
> Dear math-on-webpages CG,
> 
> Just a reminder that we're meeting tomorrow at the usual time:
> 
>     Thursday, August 25, 6pm UTC
> 
> The link for Google Hangouts is [1] below.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Peter.
> 
> [1] https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/mathjax.org/math-on-web-cg <https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/mathjax.org/math-on-web-cg>

----
Ivan Herman, W3C
Digital Publishing Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704






Re: reminder: next meeting tomorrow, Thursday, August 25, 6pm UTC

Source: public-mathonwebpages@w3.org Mail Archives • Bert Bos (bert@w3.org) • August 25, 2016 • Permalink

On Wednesday 24 August 2016 8:32:46 P.M. CEST Peter Krautzberger wrote:
> Just a reminder that we're meeting tomorrow at the usual time:
> 
>     Thursday, August 25, 6pm UTC

Regrets. I thought I would be able to join this time, but it looks like 
I won't be.

> 
> The link for Google Hangouts is [1] below.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Peter.
> 
> [1] https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/mathjax.org/math-on-web-cg



Bert
-- 
  Bert Bos                                ( W 3 C ) http://www.w3.org/
  http://www.w3.org/people/bos                               W3C/ERCIM
  bert@w3.org                             2004 Rt des Lucioles / BP 93
  +33 (0)4 92 38 76 92            06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France

Re: [EPUB 31][A11Y] Agenda for con call 20160824

Source: public-mathonwebpages@w3.org Mail Archives • Peter Krautzberger (peter.krautzberger@mathjax.org) • August 24, 2016 • Permalink

Hi all,

Thanks for setting up the call. Sorry I had to drop out early.

Here's the link to James Teh article I mentioned on the call.

http://blog.jantrid.net/2015/12/woe-aria-surprisingly-but-ridiculously.html

Best regards,
Peter.

On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Daniel Weck <daniel.weck@gmail.com> wrote:

> I was attending a weekly Readium conference call during EPUB-a11y time
> slot, so I will check the minutes. Regards, Daniel
>
> On 23 August 2016 at 18:24, Charles LaPierre <charlesl@benetech.org>
> wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > The draft agenda [2] for this week’s accessibility EPUB 3.1 WG telcon,
> to be
> > held tomorrow August 24 at 16:00 UTC [1]. Follow along in our Google Doc
> > [3]. Call-in info [4] below.
> >
> > We have invited some experts in accessible mathML to help us with agenda
> > item #1, and moved this topic to the front so those folks can leave our
> > meeting after wards.
> >
> > With regards
> > Avneesh and Charles
> >
> > [1] Meeting Time
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=
> A11Y+EPUB31&iso=20160824T16&p1=1440
> >
> > [2] Agenda
> >
> > 1. Discussion on the MathML technique in EPUB Accessibility Techniques
> > document.
> > http://www.idpf.org/epub/a11y/techniques/techniques.html#sec-desc-002
> >
> > 2. Communication plan for the recurring questions asked for the EPUB
> > accessibility specifications. for example:
> > - Steep curve for publishers
> > - Competing accessibility metadata standards
> > - No explicit mention of web technologies like MathML, svg etc.
> > - Need of a checklist for making it easy to grasp
> > and more.
> >
> > 3. Any other business.
> >
> > [3] Google doc http://tinyurl.com/jodhbfg
> >
> > [4] Join online at https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/799620829
> >
> > Or, call in using your telephone:
> >
> > United States: +1 (224) 501-3216
> > Australia: +61 2 9087 3604
> > Austria: +43 (0) 7 2088 0034
> > Belgium: +32 (0) 28 93 7018
> > Canada: +1 (647) 497-9391
> > Denmark: +45 (0) 69 91 80 05
> > Finland: +358 (0) 931 58 1746
> > France: +33 (0) 182 880 780
> > Germany: +49 (0) 692 5736 7211
> > Ireland: +353 (0) 15 290 180
> > Italy: +39 0 699 36 98 80
> > Netherlands: +31 (0) 208 908 267
> > New Zealand: +64 9 442 7358
> > Norway: +47 21 54 32 44
> > Spain: +34 911 23 0850
> > Sweden: +46 (0) 853 527 835
> > Switzerland: +41 (0) 435 0006 96
> > United Kingdom: +44 (0) 20 3713 5028
> > Access Code: 799-620-829.
> > Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > EOM
> >
> > Charles LaPierre
> > Technical Lead, DIAGRAM and Born Accessible
> > E-mail: charlesl@benetech.org
> > Twitter: @CLaPierreA11Y
> > Skype: charles_lapierre
> > Phone: 650-600-3301
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "EPUB Working Group" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> > email to epub-working-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

Add/Remove Embedded Fonts in Word Files & Save Document Page in GIF ...

Source: Ask.com News Search for "mathml" • August 24, 2016 • Permalink

PR.com - Found Aug. 24, 2016
... format revision in pdf • Convert OfficeMath nodes into MathML • Provide ability to create mathematical equation from MathML string • Add...

reminder: next meeting tomorrow, Thursday, August 25, 6pm UTC

Source: public-mathonwebpages@w3.org Mail Archives • Peter Krautzberger (peter.krautzberger@mathjax.org) • August 24, 2016 • Permalink

Dear math-on-webpages CG,

Just a reminder that we're meeting tomorrow at the usual time:

    Thursday, August 25, 6pm UTC

The link for Google Hangouts is [1] below.

Best wishes,
Peter.

[1] https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/mathjax.org/math-on-web-cg

Re: [EPUB 31][A11Y] Agenda for con call 20160824

Source: public-mathonwebpages@w3.org Mail Archives • Daniel Weck (daniel.weck@gmail.com) • August 24, 2016 • Permalink

I was attending a weekly Readium conference call during EPUB-a11y time
slot, so I will check the minutes. Regards, Daniel

On 23 August 2016 at 18:24, Charles LaPierre <charlesl@benetech.org> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> The draft agenda [2] for this week’s accessibility EPUB 3.1 WG telcon, to be
> held tomorrow August 24 at 16:00 UTC [1]. Follow along in our Google Doc
> [3]. Call-in info [4] below.
>
> We have invited some experts in accessible mathML to help us with agenda
> item #1, and moved this topic to the front so those folks can leave our
> meeting after wards.
>
> With regards
> Avneesh and Charles
>
> [1] Meeting Time
> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=A11Y+EPUB31&iso=20160824T16&p1=1440
>
> [2] Agenda
>
> 1. Discussion on the MathML technique in EPUB Accessibility Techniques
> document.
> http://www.idpf.org/epub/a11y/techniques/techniques.html#sec-desc-002
>
> 2. Communication plan for the recurring questions asked for the EPUB
> accessibility specifications. for example:
> - Steep curve for publishers
> - Competing accessibility metadata standards
> - No explicit mention of web technologies like MathML, svg etc.
> - Need of a checklist for making it easy to grasp
> and more.
>
> 3. Any other business.
>
> [3] Google doc http://tinyurl.com/jodhbfg
>
> [4] Join online at https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/799620829
>
> Or, call in using your telephone:
>
> United States: +1 (224) 501-3216
> Australia: +61 2 9087 3604
> Austria: +43 (0) 7 2088 0034
> Belgium: +32 (0) 28 93 7018
> Canada: +1 (647) 497-9391
> Denmark: +45 (0) 69 91 80 05
> Finland: +358 (0) 931 58 1746
> France: +33 (0) 182 880 780
> Germany: +49 (0) 692 5736 7211
> Ireland: +353 (0) 15 290 180
> Italy: +39 0 699 36 98 80
> Netherlands: +31 (0) 208 908 267
> New Zealand: +64 9 442 7358
> Norway: +47 21 54 32 44
> Spain: +34 911 23 0850
> Sweden: +46 (0) 853 527 835
> Switzerland: +41 (0) 435 0006 96
> United Kingdom: +44 (0) 20 3713 5028
> Access Code: 799-620-829.
> Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting.
>
>
> Thanks
> EOM
>
> Charles LaPierre
> Technical Lead, DIAGRAM and Born Accessible
> E-mail: charlesl@benetech.org
> Twitter: @CLaPierreA11Y
> Skype: charles_lapierre
> Phone: 650-600-3301
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "EPUB Working Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to epub-working-group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

RE: [EPUB 31][A11Y] Agenda for con call 20160824

Source: public-mathonwebpages@w3.org Mail Archives • Sina Bahram (sina@sinabahram.com) • August 24, 2016 • Permalink

Hi all,

 

Thank you again for inviting me to participate, and my sincere thanks for all the work you have all done to make epub more accessible and inclusively designed.

 

Here’s the math injector bookmarklet I mentioned on the call.

https://github.com/sinabahram/MathInjector

 

note, it also injects mathjax and such (since my goal was to make older versions of Jaws happy, but that’s no longer needed of course). It is  a quick and dirty working example of how this approach could work.

 

Take care,

Sina

 

President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.

Twitter: @SinaBahram

Company Website: http://www.pac.bz

Personal Website: http://www.sinabahram.com

Blog: http://blog.sinabahram.com

 

From: Charles LaPierre [mailto:charlesl@benetech.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 1:25 PM
To: transition-to-accessible-epub@mail.daisy.org; epub-working-group@googlegroups.com
Cc: Sina Bahram <sina@sinabahram.com>; volker.sorge@gmail.com; Peter Krautzberger <peter.krautzberger@mathjax.org>; public-mathonw. <public-mathonwebpages@w3.org>
Subject: [EPUB 31][A11Y] Agenda for con call 20160824

 

Hello Everyone,

The draft agenda [2] for this week’s accessibility EPUB 3.1 WG telcon, to be held tomorrow August 24 at 16:00 UTC [1]. Follow along in our Google Doc [3]. Call-in info [4] below.

 

We have invited some experts in accessible mathML to help us with agenda item #1, and moved this topic to the front so those folks can leave our meeting after wards.

With regards
Avneesh and Charles

[1] Meeting Time http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=A11Y+EPUB31 <http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=A11Y+EPUB31&iso=20160824T16&p1=1440> &iso=20160824T16&p1=1440

[2] Agenda

 

1. Discussion on the MathML technique in EPUB Accessibility Techniques document.

http://www.idpf.org/epub/a11y/techniques/techniques.html#sec-desc-002

 

2. Communication plan for the recurring questions asked for the EPUB accessibility specifications. for example:

- Steep curve for publishers

- Competing accessibility metadata standards 

- No explicit mention of web technologies like MathML, svg etc.

- Need of a checklist for making it easy to grasp 

and more.

 

3. Any other business.

 

[3] Google doc http://tinyurl.com/jodhbfg


[4] Join online at https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/799620829

Or, call in using your telephone:

United States: +1 (224) 501-3216
Australia: +61 2 9087 3604
Austria: +43 (0) 7 2088 0034
Belgium: +32 (0) 28 93 7018
Canada: +1 (647) 497-9391
Denmark: +45 (0) 69 91 80 05
Finland: +358 (0) 931 58 1746
France: +33 (0) 182 880 780
Germany: +49 (0) 692 5736 7211
Ireland: +353 (0) 15 290 180
Italy: +39 0 699 36 98 80
Netherlands: +31 (0) 208 908 267
New Zealand: +64 9 442 7358
Norway: +47 21 54 32 44
Spain: +34 911 23 0850
Sweden: +46 (0) 853 527 835
Switzerland: +41 (0) 435 0006 96
United Kingdom: +44 (0) 20 3713 5028
Access Code: 799-620-829.
Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting.

 

 

Thanks

EOM

Charles LaPierre
Technical Lead, DIAGRAM and Born Accessible
E-mail: charlesl@benetech.org <mailto:charlesl@benetech.org> 
Twitter: @CLaPierreA11Y
Skype: charles_lapierre
Phone: 650-600-3301

 

 

[EPUB 31][A11Y] Agenda for con call 20160824

Source: public-mathonwebpages@w3.org Mail Archives • Charles LaPierre (charlesl@benetech.org) • August 23, 2016 • Permalink

Hello Everyone,

The draft agenda [2] for this week’s accessibility EPUB 3.1 WG telcon, to be held tomorrow August 24 at 16:00 UTC [1]. Follow along in our Google Doc [3]. Call-in info [4] below.

We have invited some experts in accessible mathML to help us with agenda item #1, and moved this topic to the front so those folks can leave our meeting after wards.

With regards
Avneesh and Charles

[1] Meeting Time http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=A11Y+EPUB31&iso=20160824T16&p1=1440 <http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=A11Y+EPUB31&iso=20160824T16&p1=1440>

[2] Agenda

1. Discussion on the MathML technique in EPUB Accessibility Techniques document.
http://www.idpf.org/epub/a11y/techniques/techniques.html#sec-desc-002 <http://www.idpf.org/epub/a11y/techniques/techniques.html#sec-desc-002>

2. Communication plan for the recurring questions asked for the EPUB accessibility specifications. for example:
- Steep curve for publishers
- Competing accessibility metadata standards
- No explicit mention of web technologies like MathML, svg etc.
- Need of a checklist for making it easy to grasp
and more.

3. Any other business.

[3] Google doc http://tinyurl.com/jodhbfg <http://tinyurl.com/jodhbfg>

[4] Join online at https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/799620829 <https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/799620829>

Or, call in using your telephone:

United States: +1 (224) 501-3216
Australia: +61 2 9087 3604
Austria: +43 (0) 7 2088 0034
Belgium: +32 (0) 28 93 7018
Canada: +1 (647) 497-9391
Denmark: +45 (0) 69 91 80 05
Finland: +358 (0) 931 58 1746
France: +33 (0) 182 880 780
Germany: +49 (0) 692 5736 7211
Ireland: +353 (0) 15 290 180
Italy: +39 0 699 36 98 80
Netherlands: +31 (0) 208 908 267
New Zealand: +64 9 442 7358
Norway: +47 21 54 32 44
Spain: +34 911 23 0850
Sweden: +46 (0) 853 527 835
Switzerland: +41 (0) 435 0006 96
United Kingdom: +44 (0) 20 3713 5028
Access Code: 799-620-829.
Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting.


Thanks
EOM

Charles LaPierre
Technical Lead, DIAGRAM and Born Accessible
E-mail: charlesl@benetech.org
Twitter: @CLaPierreA11Y
Skype: charles_lapierre
Phone: 650-600-3301





[MathML4] New entries in the operator dictionary for U+1EEF0 and U+1EEF1

Source: www-math@w3.org Mail Archives • Frédéric Wang (fwang@igalia.com) • August 23, 2016 • Permalink

Hi Math WG,

A small follow-up of
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-math/2016Feb/0000.html

Unicode 6.1 mentions that U+1EEF0 and U+1EEF1 are used for Arabic sum
and Persian limit. Additionally, Azzeddine Lazrek indicated to me that
U+1EEF1 is also used for Arabic product.
https://www.w3.org/TR/arabic-math/ also mentions a special stretched
character for Arabic limit, but it does not seem to have been included
in Unicode at the end.

Regarding the default value, I think the "prefix" and "stretchy"
properties added by David are correct. I don't know about the spacing,
but the default thickmathspace value is probably too big. So in the
doubt, I'd recommend setting the default lspace/rspace to 0 or 1.

Frédéric

Applications that use MathML

Source: www-math@w3.org Mail Archives • Gunter Königsmann (gunter@peterpall.de) • August 19, 2016 • Permalink

Dear all,

https://www.w3.org/Math/wiki/Tools contains a list of Scientific
Computation tools that support MathML.

Would it be possible to add the following two?

 - Maxima (http://maxima.sourceforge.net) is a quite powerful computer
algebra system that can be told to output the results in Presentation
and Content MathML.
 - wxMaxima (https://github.com/andrejv/wxmaxima/) is a feature-rich
graphical frontend for maxima that provides its own "Copy as MathML"
feature (Presentation only).
Both Programs are Open-Source (GPL).

Seems like one has to be a member of an organization in order to get
write access at the Wiki so I cannot add these programs myself.

Thanks a lot,
and kind regards,

   Gunter.

Release Notes for Safari Technology Preview Release 11

Source: WebKit • Jon Davis • August 17, 2016 • Permalink

Safari Technology Preview Release 11 is now available for download for both macOS Sierra betas and OS X El Capitan. If you already have Safari Technology Preview installed, you can update from the Mac App Store’s Updates tab. This release covers WebKit revisions 203771–204289.

JavaScript

Web APIs

ApplePay

Web Inspector

MathML

CSS

Rendering

Media

Accessibility

Content Blockers

Apple’s Latest Safari Preview Fixes Apple Pay, JavaScript Bugs ...

Source: Ask.com News Search for "mathml" • August 17, 2016 • Permalink

International Business Times - Found Aug. 17, 2016
... of the browser and the problems previously found in JavaScript, Web APIs, Web Inspector, CSS, MathML, Content Blockers, Rendering, Media and...

Re: [MathML4] Removing some deprecated attributes

Source: www-math@w3.org Mail Archives • William F Hammond (hammond@csc.albany.edu) • August 04, 2016 • Permalink

Frédéric WANG <fred.wang@free.fr> writes:

> Le 03/08/2016 à 10:50, David Carlisle a écrit :
>> Not sure I agree with the claim that this is bad as a general rule.
>> Certainly in html there are many things deprecated and classed as
>> invalid in html(5) where the html5 renderer is still specified to
>> support the old behaviour <a name="xx" etc. 
>
> True, however HTML5 old features were still kept to preserve
> compatibility with existing browser implementations and documents
> available on the web. Most of the attributes listed here were never
> implemented in browsers and/or have very low (inexistent?) usage.

I suppose pulling support for 'never implemented' is OK.
Low usage is quite different.  If any document on the web
uses it and support is pulled, then that document is broken.
Hasn't Tim Berners-Lee said that one should not do this (assuming
the document was correct when posted)?

Also: how does one determine low usage?  There can be large archives
unknown to a given user and not found in search engines.

                                    -- Bill

Re: [MathML4] Removing some deprecated attributes

Source: www-math@w3.org Mail Archives • Frédéric WANG (fred.wang@free.fr) • August 03, 2016 • Permalink

Le 03/08/2016 à 10:50, David Carlisle a écrit :
> Not sure I agree with the claim that this is bad as a general rule.
> Certainly in html there are many things deprecated and classed as
> invalid in html(5) where the html5 renderer is still specified to
> support the old behaviour <a name="xx" etc. 
True, however HTML5 old features were still kept to preserve
compatibility with existing browser implementations and documents
available on the web. Most of the attributes listed here were never
implemented in browsers and/or have very low (inexistent?) usage.



Re: [MathML4] Removing some deprecated attributes

Source: www-math@w3.org Mail Archives • David Carlisle (davidc@nag.co.uk) • August 03, 2016 • Permalink

On 03/08/2016 09:07, Frédéric Wang wrote:
> About deprecated features, the recommendation says that "However, all
> (MathML-input-conformant) tools are encouraged to support the old forms
> as much as possible.". This is bad because supported features encourages
> authors to use them.

Not sure I agree with the claim that this is bad as a general rule.
Certainly in html there are many things deprecated and classed as
invalid in html(5) where the html5 renderer is still specified to
support the old behaviour <a name="xx" etc.

Although for any particular case it's not unreasonable for a renderer
(or a class of renderers such as
mathml-systems-embedded-in-a-css-based-html5-browswer) to drop some
deprecated features if supporting them is costly and they are in
practice not used. We just, in the end, need to specify whatever profile
of MathML is supposed to work for such a class
of systems (and how the MathML interacts with CSS)

David

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[MathML4] Removing some deprecated attributes

Source: www-math@w3.org Mail Archives • Frédéric Wang (fwang@igalia.com) • August 03, 2016 • Permalink

Hi,

The following attributes are deprecated in MathML3. Some of them are
still implemented in Gecko and WebKit. If they are no longer used, it
would be good to do some clean up by removing the support. Also they
should probably be removed from a specification focusing on core features.

About deprecated features, the recommendation says that "However, all
(MathML-input-conformant) tools are encouraged to support the old forms
as much as possible.". This is bad because supported features encourages
authors to use them.

1) general attribute: other.

2) math attributes: macros, mode. mode is supported in Gecko.

3) mglyph attributes: fontfamily, index.

4) token elements attributes: fontfamily, fontweight, fontstyle,
fontsize, color, background. These are supported in Gecko and WebKit
(although the latter does not make them of lower priority than thei
non-deprecated replacements).

5) deprecated namedspace attributes: veryverythinmathspace,
verythinmathspace, thinmathspace, mediummathspace, thickmathspace,
verythickmathspace, veryverythickmathspace. This used to be implemented
in Gecko but is now removed.

Frédéric

Release Notes for Safari Technology Preview Release 10

Source: WebKit • Jon Davis • August 02, 2016 • Permalink

Safari Technology Preview Release 10 is now available for download for both macOS Sierra betas and OS X El Capitan. If you already have Safari Technology Preview installed, you can update from the Mac App Store’s Updates tab. This release covers WebKit revisions 203152–203771.

JavaScript

Web APIs

Apple Pay

Web Inspector

MathML

Rendering

Accessibility

Security

Re: [MathML4] Whitespace and attributes canonicalization in MathML VS HTML5/CSS

Source: www-math@w3.org Mail Archives • Hammond, William F (whammond@albany.edu) • August 02, 2016 • Permalink

My intention was to defend the Gecko behavior and to say that 'E' notation should not be used with human-scale lengths

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 2, 2016, at 9:30 AM, Frédéric Wang <fwang@igalia.com> wrote:
> 
>> Le 01/08/2016 à 23:33, William F Hammond a écrit :
>> 
>> 1E1 is ridiculous.  For one thing, to my eye, it's 10.0
>> (floating point) -- implied by the E notation -- rather than
>> simply 10
>> 
>>                                    -- Bill
> Not sure I understand your point either. As David said, lengths use
> floating point numbers. Gecko's MathML code implement its own parsing to
> verify that the number matches the MathML syntax before converting to
> float while WebKit's parsing code is simpler and just calls an internal
> toFloat method immediately (letting it decide what's the valid syntax).
> If MathML aligns on HTML5 and the typical syntax for floats then Gecko's
> code could be simplified a bit. Maybe that will also help converters
> that generate lengths from via some calculations, I don't know.
> 
> 

Re: [MathML4] Whitespace and attributes canonicalization in MathML VS HTML5/CSS

Source: www-math@w3.org Mail Archives • Frédéric Wang (fwang@igalia.com) • August 02, 2016 • Permalink

Le 01/08/2016 à 23:33, William F Hammond a écrit :
>
> 1E1 is ridiculous.  For one thing, to my eye, it's 10.0
> (floating point) -- implied by the E notation -- rather than
> simply 10
>
>                                     -- Bill
Not sure I understand your point either. As David said, lengths use
floating point numbers. Gecko's MathML code implement its own parsing to
verify that the number matches the MathML syntax before converting to
float while WebKit's parsing code is simpler and just calls an internal
toFloat method immediately (letting it decide what's the valid syntax).
If MathML aligns on HTML5 and the typical syntax for floats then Gecko's
code could be simplified a bit. Maybe that will also help converters
that generate lengths from via some calculations, I don't know.

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