Publishing Working Group Telco — Minutes

Date: 2019-09-09

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log

Attendees

Present: Ivan Herman, Nick Ruffilo, Wendy Reid, Charles LaPierre, Deborah Kaplan, Kenneth Dougherty, Nellie McKesson, Dave Cramer, Franco Alvarado, Gregorio Pellegrino, Mateus Teixeira, Simon Collinson, Jun Gamou, Marisa DeMeglio, Rachel Comerford, Bill Kasdorf, Ben Schroeter, Avneesh Singh, Brady Duga, George Kerscher, Garth Conboy, Ric Wright, Benjamin Young, Romain Deltour

Regrets: Luc Audrain, Matt Garrish, Laurent Le Meur

Guests:

Chair: Garth Conboy, Wendy Reid

Scribe(s): Simon Collinson

Content:

1. Last week’s minutes

Wendy Reid: First up, approval of minutes.

Wendy Reid: See Last week’s minutes

Resolution #1: last week’s minutes are accepted

2. Horizontal reviews

Wendy Reid: Today’s meeting is about wrapping up loose ends before TPAC next week. Hope to see many of you there…
… if you haven’t RSVPd yet, please do…
… Ivan, do you want to review internationalization?

Ivan Herman: Nothing to say yet - I don’t have an answer from the internationalization group…
… we should consider it closed and add a note. We’ve made changes here and there and had a positive effect.

charles: As part of APA’s personalization work, I’m reviewing it all from that angle. We have a joint meeting during TPAC, so we can discuss any issues then.

Brady Duga: We are private and secure!
… I’ve filled out the ping questionnaire. The answers are the same for privacy and the audiobook manifest. I got a couple of comments from Benjamin, may not have the correct email for Deborah

Deborah Kaplan: Brady does have the right email address, it’s on me to reply :)

Brady Duga: I’ll post a link to the minutes. There’s a Google Doc - anyone with the link can comment.
… Not sure what next steps are - do I give to someone, put it somewhere?

Ivan Herman: If you look at the issue list of the repo, there are some issues open for internationalization…
… we should make some sort of report and mark it up, then contact the relevant people…
… is there anything that we have to change in our documents?

Brady Duga: I don’t know if we have a privacy/security section in the manifest?

Ivan Herman: There is one in the editor’s draft.

Ivan Herman: See Security and Privacy section in the editor’s draft

Brady Duga: We should put something other than ‘coming soon’ in there.

Wendy Reid: I’m already talking to the PING people - if they can spend some time with us next week, so I’ll forward this to them.

Ivan Herman: A small flag - Matt has created a section for security and privacy… Wendy has already added something similar for audio

3. TPAC agenda

Garth Conboy:

Garth Conboy: Can we talk briefly about the TPAC agenda Everyone has ability to edit but please comment…
… there is the meeting with the Amazon folks, encourage people to dial in for that…
… in pre-TPAC mindset, it would be good if people can spend time with our two drafts (links posted here)…

Garth Conboy: Published documents for Manifest and for Audiobooks

Avneesh Singh: Agenda is quite full - should we discuss the Community Group and what it has planned?

Wendy Reid: Major question from EPUB3 CG to WG is what happens to EPUB 3 - and we can’t answer that yet. It might come up in the business group meeting.

Garth Conboy: It might come up, but EPUB 3 is a long topic

Ivan Herman: What you put in as links are the published documents… I don’t know whether we can republish the two documents officially (?)…
… I don’t know whether we need permission to do that. Better to review the editors’ drafts.

Garth Conboy: Good point. Do we need anything consensus-wise to say ‘go ahead and publish’ in order to update the documents?

Ivan Herman: This is a good idea - we need consensus

Proposed resolution: the WG agrees to republish the manifest and the audiobook (Garth Conboy)

Garth Conboy: +1

Avneesh Singh: +1

Wendy Reid: +1

Ivan Herman: +

Ivan Herman: +1

Ric Wright: +1

Bill Kasdorf: +1

Resolution #2: the WG agrees to republish the manifest and the audiobook

charles: Should I be reviewing the latest draft or the one published on the 27th August?

George Kerscher: +1

Garth Conboy: Don’t review the link above - review the link to come - the current editors’ draft

Ivan Herman: Editors’ draft: for Manifest and for Audiobooks

* q:* q?

Garth Conboy: Let’s turn it over to Wendy and then Ivan subbing for Matt, to talk about changes to editors’ drafts
… Matt has lost power in Nova Scotia due to the hurricane…

Wendy Reid: The changes to audiobooks draft are minor. I haven’t done it yet, but will change privacy and security to match publication manifest. Added a section on usage of preview…
… so creator can include preview of content in the manifest. Minor section sorting for readability…
… I also added (this is in publication manifest) abridged attribute, ie content is abridged or unabridged…

Ivan Herman: There has been quite a lot of changes to manifest…
… many discussions since just before last publication, lots of resolutions…
… long-standing discussion about having a canonical manifest or not…
… based on resolution, the term of ‘canonical manifest’ has disappeared…
… what used to be the WebIDL is still there and takes care of the internal representation of the manifest…
… the whole processing section has been changed accordingly…
… then we had discussion about languages and directions, as a result of that discussion we had discussion about the language in the manifest and the content…
… this was previously (in EPUB days) done with xml:lang vs. dc:language, we have cleaned it up…
… quite a lot of editorial changes as well…
… there is a pull request put in yesterday from Marisa on how to do the alternate – I reviewed this and we had some minor changes based on that…
… would welcome other people looking at that - it’s not yet in the editors’ draft…
… if there’s an agreement, it could be part of the editors’ draft. That covers the major changes.

Garth Conboy: Is there anything else to discuss before open issues?

all: silence

4. open issues

Garth Conboy: Three open issues proposed to close…

4.1. issue trimming white space, #40

Garth Conboy: See Issue #40

Garth Conboy: Issue 40 - trimming whitespace. Consensus is this is (for both names and values) that we don’t want to introduce any new constraint. Trimming not required/done…
… unless there are objections, since that’s been sitting a few days, we should go ahead and close it.

Dave Cramer: For everyone’s information, EPUB does aggressively trims whitespace on metadata values (only, not for keys since they don’t exist)

Garth Conboy: There’s commentary on keys and values here - schema.org doesn’t push us in this direction. Was Dave objecting to closing?

Dave Cramer: No.

Proposed resolution: close issue 40 with no actions (Ivan Herman)

Benjamin Young: +1

Deborah Kaplan: +1

Ivan Herman: +1

Garth Conboy: +1

Charles LaPierre: +1

Bill Kasdorf: +1

Wendy Reid: +1

Brady Duga: + 1

Mateus Teixeira: +1

Romain Deltour: +1

George Kerscher: +1

Resolution #3: close #40 with no action

4.2. issue #22 TAG Review

Garth Conboy: See Issue #22

Garth Conboy: This one should be easy, since it’s lacking content entirely - issue 22. This was a placeholder for TAG review…

Proposed resolution: close #22 without further actions (Garth Conboy)

Ivan Herman: +1

Garth Conboy: +1

Deborah Kaplan: +1

Bill Kasdorf: +1

George Kerscher: +1

Franco Alvarado: +1

Wendy Reid: +1

Charles LaPierre: +1

Ivan Herman: For the record, there has been a TAG review separately - not sure why this issue was opened
… worth mentioning that we are not ignoring TAG review, just that issue was opened and not followed up…

Resolution #4: close #22 without further actions

4.3. issue #13 do we require the type for Linked Resource

Garth Conboy: Next is issue 13, about typing for linked resources…

Garth Conboy: See Issue #13

Garth Conboy: that has been without comments for over six months…
… Dave and Hadrien came towards not adding a typing requirement. Is that acceptable to you Ivan?

Ivan Herman: It is.

Proposed resolution: close #13 with no action (no typeing requirements) (Garth Conboy)

Garth Conboy: +1

Wendy Reid: +1

Ivan Herman: +1

Deborah Kaplan: +1

Bill Kasdorf: +1

George Kerscher: +1

Romain Deltour: +1

Resolution #5: close #13 with no action (no typeing requirements)

Garth Conboy: https://github.com/w3c/pub-manifest/issues

Garth Conboy: There are ten other issues. I’d like to request - are there ones that people on the call have opened and that they’d like to discuss?
… Self-review, there’s nothing to talk about. Inviting Marisa to talk through issue 33.

4.4. issue #33 on alternates

Garth Conboy: See Issue #33

Marisa DeMeglio: I submitted a pull request, Ivan reviewed it, a few other people should have a look - Wendy in particular as this affects audiobooks. I don’t have anything earth-shattering to announce…

Ivan Herman: See corresponding PR

Garth Conboy: We don’t want to close the issue until the PR is merged.

Marisa DeMeglio: Agreed.

4.5. issue #51 values for readingProgression

Garth Conboy: See Issue #51

Ivan Herman: So far, the reading progression has two possible values, ltr and rtl…
… Laurent raised the possibility of whether we needed top to bottom or bottom to top…
… I don’t know if there’s a reasonable example for bottom to top. I don’t know if publications would use this, but we can add another value there if it makes sense.

Dave Cramer: I’m not expressing an opinion about the issue, but I don’t think we should make decisions here without drawing diagrams and talking about exactly what we’re expecting from user agents.

Ivan Herman: I agree, we should discuss when Laurent is around.

Dave Cramer: I’m wary of doing interesting visual things without a whiteboard around.

4.6. issue #9 Should canonicalization include absolutization

Garth Conboy: See Issue 9

Ivan Herman: with the change of having publication manifest and not web publication, absolutization is done in the profile and I wonder if this is something we definitely have to have…
… in the publication manifest now… should it be up to the profiles what happens?

Garth Conboy: It sounds like you’re proposing close with no action?

Ivan Herman: It might be better to wait for Laurent - he had issues with the spec. Let’s put that on the agenda for TPAC when Laurent is around.

4.7. Issue #12 Manifest processing model, what if null base URL?

Garth Conboy: Is Daniel on the call to talk about (?)
… issue 12 Manifest processing model, what if null base URL?

Garth Conboy: See Issue #12

Wendy Reid: I need to read this over before I have any opinions… I think we can save this one for discussion. Maybe Ivan has more info?

Ivan Herman: Related to what I said before - at the moment we have the publication manifest, where the base comes from is up to the various profiles…
… it was all about what happens if web content has an iframe, what is the base URL?
… we haven’t solved this issue, but it’s not relevant any more for the manifest…

Garth Conboy: Was that a ‘leave to TPAC’ or ‘close now’?

Ivan Herman: Leave to TPAC…

Garth Conboy: We’ll have Laurent with us at TPAC, so that makes sense.

4.8. Issue #16 Specification’s version in the manifest

Garth Conboy: See Issue #16

Garth Conboy: One other wasn’t postponed, and hasn’t been addressed for some time - issue 16 - to do with version in the manifest.
… is this obviated or are we still live?
… we didn’t get to a satisfying conclusion…

all: silence

Wendy Reid: I do love the aspirational nature of the question

Charles LaPierre: Looking at this, because it also goes in line with the accessibility specification, with the conforms-to suggestion, I like that you can specify the version number and have all the information right there…
… we have that already as a basis for conformance to the a11y spec…
… but we’re trying to avoid compatibility issues, if we have a version in the future which requires special handling, if we don’t put it in there now we could be in trouble…

Dave Cramer: I hope we can avoid having version numbers on this.

Wendy Reid: +1

Dave Cramer: it feels like a nightmare of incompatibility and writing special paths and code etc.…
… we’ve managed to avoid it in HTML and CSS, let’s really try not to go there…

Garth Conboy: One can also argue that even if we do choose to go there, we don’t have to go there at the first try…

Ivan Herman: I agree - if we look back at the comments; if we want to express conformance with a version of the specification, there is a comment I made in Feb which said you can put this kind of information in the manifest…
… there’s a way of using dc terms to do that…
… if this information is necessary in the document, we can do that with the manifest…

Proposed resolution: close #16 without action (not adding version numbering) (Garth Conboy)

Wendy Reid: +1

Ivan Herman: +1

Dave Cramer: +1

Garth Conboy: +1

Nellie McKesson: +1

Geoff Jukes: +1

Charles LaPierre: +1

Benjamin Young: +1

Deborah Kaplan: +1

Simon Collinson: +1

Resolution #6: close #16 without action (not adding version numbering)

Ivan Herman: I agree with this, maybe we can ask Matt to put in an example of how this would be provided as an information - if someone were to do that, how they would go about it

Ivan Herman: … a full example with DC or a simpler version thereof

Garth Conboy: This is with dc terms ‘conforms to’?

Ivan Herman: Yes, conformsTo.

Action #1: add an informational text on using dcterms (Matt Garrish)

5. Further issues:

Ivan Herman: see the right github URL

Garth Conboy: Is there any other issue to review on today’s call? The metadata one is postponed
… Is there any other business?
… the homework remains, of reviewing the editors’ drafts, and if they get published soon you can review the non-draft version…
… hopefully a good time and accomplishment-filled time will be had by all at Fukuoka!

8. Resolutions

9. Action Items