Publishing Working Group Telco — Minutes

Date: 2019-08-19

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log

Attendees

Present: Deborah Kaplan, Mateus Teixeira, Rachel Comerford, Ivan Herman, Wendy Reid, Luc Audrain, gregorio, Gregorio Pellegrino, Laurent Le Meur, George Kerscher, Matt Garrish, Keith McFarland, Romain Deltour, Ric Wright, Avneesh Singh, Jun Gamou, Garth Conboy, Marisa DeMeglio, Bill Kasdorf, Benjamin Young, Joshua Pyle, Nellie McKesson, Brady Duga, Geoff Jukes, Tim Cole

Regrets: Tzviya Siegman, Franco Alvarado, Dave Cramer

Guests:

Chair: Wendy Reid

Scribe(s): Rachel Comerford

Content:

Wendy Reid: Let’s introduce Keith!

keith mcfarland: [silence speaks louder than words]

keith mcfarland: hello everyone. sorry, audio issues,

Wendy Reid: Keith is joining us from Blackstone

1. approving the minutes

Wendy Reid: See Last week’s minutes

Ivan Herman: +1

Wendy Reid: shall we approve the minutes?
… minutes approved

Resolution #1: last week’s minutes approved

2. Publishing updates

Wendy Reid: publications manifest first public work draft and next working draft of audiobooks will be ready to publish next week

Ivan Herman: we need a formal resolution for the first public working draft of the manifest

Proposed resolution: the WG approves the publication of the Publication Manifest as a First Public Working Draft, using the shortname pub-manifest (Ivan Herman)

Matt Garrish: +1

Deborah Kaplan: +1

Wendy Reid: +1

Ivan Herman: +1

Rachel Comerford: +1

Mateus Teixeira: +1

Joshua Pyle: +1

Bill Kasdorf: +1

Marisa DeMeglio: +1

Laurent Le Meur: +1

Luc Audrain: +1

George Kerscher: +1

Garth Conboy: +1

Benjamin Young: +1

Avneesh Singh: +1

Resolution #2: the WG approves the publication of the Publication Manifest as a First Public Working Draft, using the shortname pub-manifest

Proposed resolution: the WG approves the usage of ECHIDNA for the Publication Manifest document (once published as a FPWD) (Ivan Herman)

Matt Garrish: +1

Ivan Herman: +1

Wendy Reid: +1

Deborah Kaplan: +1

Romain Deltour: +1

Geoff Jukes: +1

Rachel Comerford: +1

Garth Conboy: +1

Joshua Pyle: +1

Bill Kasdorf: +1

Laurent Le Meur: +1

Luc Audrain: +1

George Kerscher: +1

Resolution #3: the WG approves the usage of ECHIDNA for the Publication Manifest document (once published as a FPWD)

Avneesh Singh: +1

Proposed resolution: the WG approves the publication of the next audiobook draft (Ivan Herman)

Ivan Herman: +1

Wendy Reid: +1

Avneesh Singh: +1

Deborah Kaplan: +1

Laurent Le Meur: +1

Rachel Comerford: +1

Joshua Pyle: +1

Mateus Teixeira: +1

Geoff Jukes: +1

Bill Kasdorf: +1

Romain Deltour: +1

Matt Garrish: +1

George Kerscher: +1

Resolution #4: the WG approves the publication of the next audiobook draft

3. manifest discussion issue

Wendy Reid: See Issue #31 “Is there a need for both an authored and a canonical manifests”

Wendy Reid: See Issue #32 “Should we use JSON schemas as part of the spec?”

Wendy Reid: See summary of the discussions and decisions to be taken, read here:

  1. Do we allow the usage of full JSON-LD for the publication manifest, or only a restricted “subset” (or shape) thereof. Put it another way, do we expect reading systems that use the manifest to include a full JSON-LD processor? (This is, in fact, issue #32.)

  2. Do we need the differentiation (and corresponding conversion method) between an “authored” manifest and a “canonical” manifest, where the former is a simplified version of the latter (e.g., allowing the author to use simple convention to express the manifest information in its full complexity)? (See the example of @llemeurfr’s example in #31 (comment) to illustrate it)

Ivan Herman: we moved a bit last week and getting to a consensus among those who discussed all this. The proposed answer to the first question is no, ie, we would use just a specific “shape” of JSON-LD. There would be an informal reference to a JSON-Schema to define that shape.

George Kerscher: A fully implemented json processor would be able to process this subset and so would a reading system so we have this covered, yes?

Ivan Herman: yes.
… the other issue is canonical manifest. The proposed consensus is the get rid of the term ‘canonical’ manifest.
… There is already a (WebIDL) definition in the document that is used by the processor. Matt is working with the conversion algorithm that says here is the manifest and here is how I use it to convert it into the data structure defined by WebIDL. I think that the discussion on the issue shows that we are in agreement
… matt’s work is not yet done and so this will not be in the first public working draft
… the question is if there is a consensus

Wendy Reid: are there any comments?

Benjamin Young: the overall direction is the right one but we do need to review the writing when it’s done because it will clarify some of the confusion
… shape is a better term in this case than subset

Proposed resolution: (1) only a shape of JSON-LD is required; this will be further defined through an (informative) reference to a JSON schema. This should close issue #32. (2) instead of the canonical manifest only an internal data structure is used, and the canonicalization algo. maps onto this. This closes issue #31 (Ivan Herman)

Ivan Herman: +1

Wendy Reid: +1

Luc Audrain: +1

Nellie McKesson: +1

Deborah Kaplan: +1

Matt Garrish: +1

Rachel Comerford: +1

Tim Cole: +1

Romain Deltour: +1

Mateus Teixeira: +1

Geoff Jukes: +1

Benjamin Young: +1

Marisa DeMeglio: +1

Laurent Le Meur: +1

Bill Kasdorf: +1

Joshua Pyle: +1

Resolution #5: (1) only a shape of JSON-LD is required; this will be further defined through an (informative) reference to a JSON schema. This should close issue #32. (2) instead of the canonical manifest only an internal data structure is used, and the canonicalization algo. maps onto this. This closes issue #31

4. Matt as an extra help

Bill Kasdorf: Yay Matt!

Wendy Reid: Welcome mattg as a temporary co-chair (until Tzviya is back)!

5. Agenda for TPAC

Wendy Reid: See Agenda-to-be

6. Agenda for TPAC

Wendy Reid: I think I will be attending

Luc Audrain: Good news !

Wendy Reid: end of this week is the deadline for adding suggestions to the agenda
… Please fill it out this week

7. Proposed Closing issues

Wendy Reid: https://github.com/w3c/audiobooks/issues

Wendy Reid: https://github.com/w3c/pub-manifest/issues

Wendy Reid: please take a look at these lists of proposed issues to close and let me know today if you have any objections to closing any of them
… otherwise they will be closed today

Laurent Le Meur: +1

8. Add linked resource property called ‘alternative’

Luc Audrain: See Issue #33

Wendy Reid: this is to facilitate the use case for synch media
… we realized that there wasn’t anything in synched media that allowed for this so I suggested this issue be opened against manifest
… this affects more than just audiobook

Ivan Herman: this is the written version of an audio track?
… it’s value is the url to a resource?
… but it must be present in the links in the manifest?
… I imagine it could be done automatically in those transformations

Marisa DeMeglio: I like the idea of not having it be strict

Matt Garrish: There’s no reason it couldn’t be an array as well as a value, correct?

Wendy Reid: yeah, I think you could have multiple alternatives

Ivan Herman: I am backpedaling
… if I do it automatically then the media type will not be clear - especially if we do what Matt says
… I don’t think we have an automatic deduction of the media type

Laurent Le Meur: See Example of a similar structure in Readium

Laurent Le Meur: See Example for usage of a similar construction

Laurent Le Meur: there are some potential implementations on the market
… I support Ivan’s proposals

Ivan Herman: I would like if this came in like a pull request on the manifest document with all the right information

Marisa DeMeglio: I can give it a shot

Ivan Herman: thanks, mattg has his hands full

Benjamin Young: how does this work with rel alternate? will that be confusing? whoever writes the pull request should be careful to clarify

Laurent Le Meur: one is about alternative publication and the other is about alternative media, it’s a different level of semantics

Ivan Herman: the new proposal, the alternate is the target - the rel characterizes the resource
… I am giving a sound alternative to a text

Benjamin Young: and that’s the definition of rel alternate in HTML

Ivan Herman: but not in JSON-LD

Proposed resolution: there is an in principle agreement with the proposal, a PR will follow with the details (Wendy Reid)

Ivan Herman: +1

Benjamin Young: I think whoever writes this should be aware

Avneesh Singh: +1

Wendy Reid: +1

Tim Cole: +1

Deborah Kaplan: +1

Romain Deltour: +1

Rachel Comerford: +1

Matt Garrish: +1

Luc Audrain: +1

Benjamin Young: +1

Bill Kasdorf: +1

Mateus Teixeira: +1

Ric Wright: +1

Geoff Jukes: +1

Nellie McKesson: +1

Resolution #6: there is an in principle agreement with the proposal, a PR will follow with the details

Wendy Reid: Next week we’ll talk about audiobooks
… Add items to the TPAC document

Laurent Le Meur: bye

9. Resolutions