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15:50:13 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/08/19-pwg-irc
15:50:14 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:50:14 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Working Group Telco
15:50:14 <ivan> Chair: wendy
15:50:14 <ivan> Date: 2019-08-19
15:50:14 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2019Aug/0014.html
15:50:14 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-08-19: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2019Aug/0014.html
15:50:15 <ivan> Regrets+ tzviya, franco, dauwhe
15:51:09 <dkaplan3> present+
15:51:36 <mateus> present+
15:55:52 <Rachel> present+
15:56:09 <ivan> present+
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15:58:27 <wendyreid> present+
15:58:29 <laudrain> present+ laudrain
15:58:45 <ivan> present+ gregorio
15:59:48 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino has joined #pwg
15:59:58 <gpellegrino> present+
16:00:02 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #pwg
16:00:13 <laurent_> laurent_ has joined #pwg
16:00:28 <laurent_> present+ laurent
16:01:37 <wendyreid> zakim, pick a victim
16:01:37 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose wendyreid
16:01:56 <wendyreid> zakim, pick a victim
16:01:56 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose gregorio
16:01:56 <ivan> present+ George
16:02:01 <Keith_McFarland> Keith_McFarland has joined #pwg
16:02:02 <rkwright> rkwright has joined #pwg
16:02:26 <romain> romain has joined #pwg
16:02:36 <wendyreid> zakim, pick a victim
16:02:36 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose gregorio
16:02:49 <wendyreid> zakim, pick a victim
16:02:49 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Rachel
16:02:58 <mattg> present+
16:03:05 <ivan> present+ keithmcfarland
16:03:11 <Rachel> scribe+
16:03:15 <George> George has joined #pwg
16:03:19 <ivan> present+ rdeltour
16:03:24 <rkwright> present+
16:03:33 <Rachel> wendyreid: Let's introduce Keith!
16:03:40 <George> present+
16:03:53 <Rachel> Keith_McFarland: [silence speaks louder than words]
16:04:11 <garth> garth has joined #pwg
16:04:11 <Keith_McFarland> hello everyone. sorry, audio issues,
16:04:36 <Avneesh> present+
16:04:45 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-08-12-pwg
16:04:46 <JunGamo> JunGamo has joined #pwg
16:04:48 <Rachel> wendyreid: Keith is joining us from Blackstone
16:04:51 <JunGamo> present+
16:04:52 <garth> present+ Garth
16:04:55 <Rachel> Topic: approving the minutes
16:05:02 <marisa> marisa has joined #pwg
16:05:03 <ivan> +1
16:05:10 <Rachel> wendyreid: shall we approve the minutes?
16:05:18 <Rachel> wendyreid: minutes approved
16:05:20 <ivan> resolved: last week's minutes approved
16:05:27 <ivan> present+ marisa
16:05:33 <Rachel> Topic: Publishing updates
16:05:51 <Kenneth> Kenneth has joined #pwg
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16:06:01 <ivan> q+
16:06:03 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:06:05 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:06:08 <bigbluehat> present+
16:06:20 <Rachel> wendyreid: publications manifest first public work draft and next working draft of audiobooks will be ready to publish next week
16:06:45 <Rachel> ivan: we need a formal resolution for the first public working draft of manifest
16:07:03 <geoffjukes> geoffjukes has joined #pwg
16:07:10 <ivan> proposed: the WG approves the publication of the Publication Manifest as a First Public Working Draft, using the shortname pub-manifest
16:07:14 <josh> josh has joined #pwg
16:07:21 <mattg> +1
16:07:24 <dkaplan3> +1
16:07:25 <wendyreid> +1
16:07:25 <ivan> +1
16:07:26 <josh> present+
16:07:26 <Rachel> +1
16:07:27 <mateus> +1
16:07:28 <josh> +1
16:07:31 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:07:31 <marisa> +1
16:07:32 <laurent_> +1
16:07:34 <laudrain> +1
16:07:37 <George> +1
16:07:37 <garth> +1
16:07:37 <bigbluehat> +1
16:07:44 <Avneesh> +1
16:07:46 <ivan> resolved: the WG approves the publication of the Publication Manifest as a First Public Working Draft, using the shortname pub-manifest
16:08:14 <Nellie> Nellie has joined #pwg
16:08:14 <ivan> proposed: the WG approves the usage of ECHIDNA for the Publication Manifest document (once published as a FPWD)
16:08:20 <mattg> +1
16:08:24 <ivan> +1
16:08:26 <wendyreid> +1
16:08:27 <dkaplan3> +1
16:08:32 <romain> +1
16:08:32 <geoffjukes> +1
16:08:33 <Rachel> +1
16:08:34 <garth> +1
16:08:35 <josh> +1
16:08:35 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:08:35 <laurent_> +1
16:08:36 <laudrain> +1
16:08:40 <George> +1
16:08:44 <ivan> resolved: the WG approves the usage of ECHIDNA for the Publication Manifest document (once published as a FPWD)
16:08:44 <Avneesh> +1
16:08:55 <Nellie> present+
16:09:14 <User2> User2 has joined #pwg
16:09:55 <ivan> proposed: the WG approves the publication of the next audiobook draft
16:10:06 <ivan> +1
16:10:11 <wendyreid> +1
16:10:11 <Avneesh> +1
16:10:12 <dkaplan3> +1
16:10:12 <laurent_> +1
16:10:13 <Rachel> +1
16:10:14 <josh> +1
16:10:14 <mateus> +1
16:10:15 <geoffjukes> +1
16:10:15 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:10:18 <romain> +1
16:10:19 <mattg> +1
16:10:20 <George> +1
16:10:26 <ivan> resolved: the WG approves the publication of the next audiobook draft
16:10:27 <duga> duga has joined #pwg
16:10:30 <duga> present+
16:10:43 <ivan> present+ geoffjukes
16:10:46 <timCole> timCole has joined #pwg
16:10:53 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/pub-manifest/issues/31#issuecomment-521096482
16:11:07 <timCole> present+
16:11:08 <Rachel> Topic: manifest discussion issue
16:11:36 <wendyreid> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/A74AacKb/
16:11:37 <Rachel> wendyreid: is there a need for book and author?
16:12:43 <ivan> q+
16:12:49 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:15:34 <George> q+
16:15:55 <ivan> ivan: complete later...
16:16:12 <laudrain> ok
16:16:13 <wendyreid> ack George
16:17:00 <Rachel> George: A fully implemented json processor would be able to process this subset and so would a reading system so we have this covered, yes?
16:17:03 <Rachel> ivan: yes
16:17:14 <Rachel> ... the other issue is cannonical manifest
16:18:45 <Rachel> ...there is already a document that is used by the processor that is used already. Matt is working with the conversion algorithm that says here is the manifest and here is how I use it. I think that the discussion on the issue shows that we are in agreement
16:19:03 <Rachel> ...matt's work is not yet done and so this will not be i nthe first public working draft
16:19:41 <Rachel> ...the question is if there is a consensus
16:19:51 <Rachel> wendyreid: are there any comments?
16:19:58 <bigbluehat> q+
16:20:10 <wendyreid> ack bigbluehat
16:20:39 <Rachel> bigbluehat: the overall direction is the right one but we do need to review the writing when it's done because it will clarify some of the confusion
16:21:23 <bigbluehat> q+
16:21:37 <wendyreid> ack bigbluehat
16:22:04 <Rachel> bigbluehat: shape is a better term in this case than subset
16:23:04 <ivan> proposed: (1) only a shape of JSON-LD is required; this will be further defined through an (informative) reference to a JSON schema. This should close issue #32. (2) instead of the canonical manifest only an internal data structure is used, and the canonicalizaiton algo. maps onto this. This closes issue #31
16:23:36 <ivan> +1
16:23:36 <wendyreid> +1
16:23:37 <laudrain> +1
16:23:38 <Nellie> +1
16:23:38 <dkaplan3> +1
16:23:39 <mattg> +1
16:23:40 <Rachel> +1
16:23:41 <timCole> +1
16:23:43 <romain> +1
16:23:43 <mateus> +1
16:23:44 <geoffjukes> +1
16:23:45 <bigbluehat> +1
16:23:45 <marisa> +1
16:23:47 <laurent_> +1
16:23:48 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:23:49 <josh> +1
16:23:57 <ivan> resolved: (1) only a shape of JSON-LD is required; this will be further defined through an (informative) reference to a JSON schema. This should close issue #32. (2) instead of the canonical manifest only an internal data structure is used, and the canonicalizaiton algo. maps onto this. This closes issue #31
16:24:38 <ivan> topic: matt as an extra help
16:24:54 <Bill_Kasdorf> Yay Matt!
16:25:04 <Rachel> wendyreid: Welcome mattg as a co-chair!
16:25:10 <ivan> present+ garth
16:25:17 <ivan> present+ marisa
16:25:28 <wendyreid> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q8PUjzMY04peuYZdTkA6A0BBoFea_BSK4ygJlphkzh8/edit
16:25:36 <ivan> topic: TPAC agenda
16:25:40 <Rachel> Topic: Agenda for TPAC
16:25:50 <Rachel> wendyreid: I think I will be attending
16:25:55 <laudrain> Good news !
16:26:40 <Rachel> wendyreid: end of this week is the deadline for adding suggestions to the agenda
16:26:49 <Rachel> ...Please fill it out this week
16:27:12 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/audiobooks/issues
16:27:19 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/pub-manifest/issues
16:27:33 <Rachel> Topic: Proposed Closing issues
16:27:33 <ivan> Topic: issue closures
16:28:26 <Rachel> wendyreid: please take a look at this list of proposed issues to close and let me know today if you have any objections to closing any of them
16:28:35 <Rachel> ...otherwise they will be closed today
16:29:04 <ivan> q+
16:29:14 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:29:37 <laurent_> +1
16:29:41 <ivan> Topic: Add linked resource property called 'alternative'
16:29:41 <laudrain> https://github.com/w3c/pub-manifest/issues/33
16:30:14 <Rachel> wendyreid: this is to facilitate the use case for synch media
16:31:07 <ivan> q+
16:31:10 <Rachel> ...we realized that there wasn't anything in synched media that allowed for this so I suggested this issue be opened against manifest
16:31:11 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:31:23 <Rachel> ...this affects more than just audiobook
16:31:40 <Rachel> ivan: this is the written version of an audio track?
16:31:54 <Rachel> ...it's value is the url to a resource?
16:32:12 <Rachel> ...but it must be present in the links in the manifest?
16:32:29 <Rachel> ...I imagine it could be done automatically in those transformations
16:32:50 <marisa> q+
16:33:01 <wendyreid> ack marisa
16:33:15 <mattg> q+
16:33:22 <Rachel> marisa: I like the idea of not having it be strict
16:33:55 <wendyreid> ack mattg
16:34:13 <Rachel> mattg: There's no reason it couldn't be an array as well as a value, correct?
16:34:15 <ivan> q+
16:34:21 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:34:27 <Rachel> wendyreid: yeah, I think you could have multiple alternatives
16:34:37 <Rachel> ivan: I am backpedaling
16:35:08 <Rachel> ... if I do it automatically then the media type will not be clear - especially if we do what Matt says
16:35:10 <laurent_> q+
16:35:31 <wendyreid> ack laurent_
16:35:34 <Rachel> ...I don't think we have an automaticate deduction of the media type
16:35:38 <laurent_> https://github.com/readium/webpub-manifest/blob/master/extensions/audiobook.md#3-alternate-audio-resources
16:36:01 <laurent_> https://api.archivelab.org/books/art_letters_1809_librivox/opds_audio_manifest
16:36:17 <Rachel> laurent_: there are some potential implementations on the market
16:37:15 <Rachel> ...I suppose Ivan's proposals
16:37:19 <ivan> q+
16:37:23 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:38:08 <Rachel> Ivan: I would like if this came in like a pull request on the manifest document with all the right information
16:38:15 <Rachel> marisa: I can give it a shot
16:38:24 <Rachel> ivan: thanks, mattg has his hands full
16:38:43 <laurent_> s/suppose/support
16:38:47 <bigbluehat> q+
16:38:51 <wendyreid> ack bigbluehat
16:39:04 <ivan> proposed: there is an in principle agreement with the proposal, a PR will follow with the details
16:39:46 <laurent_> q+
16:39:47 <Rachel> bigbluehat: how does this work with rel alternate? will that be confusing? whoever writes the pull request should be careful to clarify
16:39:49 <ivan> q+
16:39:54 <wendyreid> ack laurent_
16:40:11 <bigbluehat> q+
16:40:15 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:40:21 <Rachel> laurent_: one is about alternative publication and the other is about alternative media, it's a different level of semantics
16:40:45 <Rachel> ivan: the new proposal, we alternate - the rel characterizes the resource
16:41:01 <wendyreid> ack bigbluehat
16:41:03 <Rachel> ... I am giving a sound alternative to a text
16:41:29 <Rachel> bigbluehat: and that's the defined alternative to rel alternate in HTML
16:41:40 <Rachel> ivan: but not JSON-LD
16:41:54 <ivan> s/not/not in/
16:42:15 <wendyreid> proposed: there is an in principle agreement with the proposal, a PR will follow with the details
16:42:19 <ivan> +1
16:42:19 <Rachel> bigbluehat: I think whoever writes this should be aware
16:42:22 <Avneesh> +1
16:42:24 <wendyreid> +1
16:42:26 <timCole> +1
16:42:27 <dkaplan3> +1
16:42:28 <romain> +1
16:42:30 <Rachel> +1
16:42:31 <bigbluehat> s/that's the defined alternative to/that's the definition of/
16:42:31 <mattg> +1
16:42:31 <laudrain> +1
16:42:33 <bigbluehat> +1
16:42:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:42:34 <mateus> +1
16:42:40 <rkwright> +1
16:42:42 <geoffjukes> +1
16:42:42 <Nellie> +1
16:42:44 <ivan> resolved: there is an in principle agreement with the proposal, a PR will follow with the details
16:42:46 <wendyreid> resolved: there is an in principle agreement with the proposal, a PR will follow with the details
16:43:14 <Rachel> wendyreid: Next week we'll talk about audiobooks
16:43:33 <Rachel> wendyreid: Add items to the TPAC document
16:43:38 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:43:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/08/19-pwg-minutes.html ivan
16:43:38 <ivan> zakim, bye
16:43:38 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
16:43:38 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:43:38 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been dkaplan, mateus, Rachel, ivan, wendyreid, laudrain, gregorio, gpellegrino, laurent, George, mattg, keithmcfarland, rdeltour,
16:43:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwg
16:43:39 <laurent_> bye
16:43:41 <dkaplan3> dkaplan3 has left #pwg