Publishing WG Weekly telco — Minutes

– DRAFT Minutes –

Date: 2017-06-26

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log


Present: Wolfgang Schindler, Chris Maden, Tzviya Siegman, Luc Audrain, Ivan Herman, Matt Garrish, Mateus Teixeira, Romain Deltour, Garth Conboy, Toshiaki Koike, Dave Cramer, Ric Wright, Peter Krautzberger, Hadrien Gardeur, Bill Kasdorf, Leonard Rosenthol, Laurent Le Meur, Bill McCoy, Charles LaPierre

Regrets: George Kerscher, Tim Cole, Yuri Khramov, Rick Johnson, Marisa DeMeglio, Jason Colman, Nick Ruffilo, Brady Duga, Vladimir Levantovsky, Avneesh Singh


Chair: Tzviya Siegman, Garth Conboy

Scribe(s): Ric Wright


Wolfgang Schindler: Hi to all of you!

Mateus Teixeira: mateus-teixeira has joined #pwg

Wolfgang Schindler: Is webex DPUB-IG already running? The option to join the meeting is still inactive.

1. minutes approvals

Tzviya Siegman:

Ric Wright: Minutes accepted

2. moving to gotomeetings

Ivan Herman: Despite universal lover for WebEx, should we accept offer from Laurent to use EDRLab’s GoToMeeting?

Dave: What about accessibility?

Ivan Herman: If we are only using it for voice then there is no issue. George and Avneesh concur.

Tzviya Siegman: We will lose the ability to call out but that’s probably OK
… Need to have a host on the call.

Resolution #1: move to Gotomeeting

Consensus: We will try GTM next time

3. Manifest TF Kickoff

Garth Conboy: Need a draft of what is in the manifest

Garth Conboy: Sorry!

Leonard Rosenthol: One of the points of contention was whether the manifest at the WP was necessary and required. Now feel that we do really need a manifest.
… One caution is that what we define for the WP manifest may not be exactly the same as a manifest for PWP but time will inform us.

Garth Conboy: Agrees with this but disappointed that conflict is now reduced

dave: Need to be careful here. The name manifest is somewhat loaded. Need to think carefully about what is different between a WP and an ordinary website
… Need to think carefully about what the manifest is and its relationship to the resources, etc.

Ric Wright: Ivan is very quiet

Leonard Rosenthol: it’s not about the information (as a concept), but about the implementation (format)

Hadrien Gardeur: +1 to what Ivan just said

Ivan Herman: Need to be careful about the similarities and differences between WP and PWP’s manifest structure. They probably should be very similar. Perhaps the PWP is a superset?

Tzviya Siegman: +1 to Ivan

Garth Conboy: Are there external “manifests” to which we will need to conform?

Garth Conboy: Bill’s email:

Leonard Rosenthol: +1 to @garth about other things to conform to…

Laurent Le Meur: We should focus on the set of the requirements in the near term. Simpler is better. THerefore in favor of WP and PWP being similar or the same.

Tzviya Siegman: Bill’s email:

Ivan Herman: Alternative URI for Bill’s email: :-)

Garth Conboy: (Ivan’s source is better!)

romain: Agree that we should be careful and review requirements.

Laurent Le Meur: plus I think that from requirements we must move to data model, only then to a serialization format.

Hadrien Gardeur: for Web Packaging, it seems that they’re moving away from using the concept and term manifest btw

Leonard Rosenthol: Agree that we should review requirements first. Also, not thrilled with profiles of the manifests, but we will need to review other technologies that might intersect

Garth Conboy: acl dauwhe

Hadrien Gardeur: and their use case is completely different

dave: Need to be careful looking at other manifests and not be unduly influenced by other technologies. We don’t want to put too much in it that isn’t needed.

Dave Cramer: +1

Mateus Teixeira: +1 to needing a definition of manifest

Ivan Herman: +1

Tzviya Siegman: We need to be careful about using terms like manifest and profiles. They mean different things to different people.

Laurent Le Meur: +1 for defining manifest precisely

Wolfgang Schindler: *+1 we need a definition of the manifest in terms of its function for WP/PWP

Ivan Herman: There are several groups at W3C who also working on “manifests” so it would be good to 1) define what a manifest means to us and 2) initiate a conversation with other W3C groups who have manifests (Web Manifest and Web Packaging)

Mateus Teixeira: Agree that we need to consult with other groups so we don’t duplicate effort. The presentation point discussed in NYC is relevant here.

Garth Conboy: Should we call it “OPF file?” :-)

dave: Still concerned about the use of the word “manifest”

Hadrien Gardeur: can’t we just discuss what we need in there, no matter the term that we use?

dave: the WebPub manifest is nothing like our concept of a manifest. Need to clearly specify what it IS

Garth Conboy: Agree that we need to examine our use-cases and requirements

Tzviya Siegman: input document. PWP Use Cased from IG:

Garth Conboy: Need to define the minimum needs we have, e.g. resources, reading order, etc. before we examine how to implement t

Garth Conboy: acl laurentlemeur

Laurent Le Meur: Need to define by EOD what the action plan is. Don’t think we need to create a new word for the manifest Then we need to delineate the requirements.

Leonard Rosenthol: FWIW: of the 25 requirements in the document @tzviya pointed to, 15 of them are related to “manifest”

Ivan Herman: Let’s decide for ourselves to use the word manifest which contains the necessary information to describe the WP

Leonard Rosenthol: of the 25 requirements in the document @tzviya pointed to, 15 of them are related to “manifest”
… We need to review those and try to prune it down to the essential ones.

Leonard Rosenthol: I am happy to provide a starting point list in email to work from…

Ivan Herman: Almost fully agree with leonard exxcept that we should work on the pruning/deliberation via email prior to the next meeting.

Bill McCoy: Need to bear in mind the external consumers of our specs as that is a much larger group than we.

Peter Krautzberger: Captain Manifest!

Garth Conboy: Definition: A user agent is any software that retrieves, renders and facilitates end user interaction with Web content, or whose user interface is implemented using Web technologies.

Garth Conboy: (so I do think we may need to be a bit broarder)

Tzviya Siegman: Agree with Bill. Need to move on so let Dave be the “captain” of manifest work . If anyone wants to work with Dave, please contact him.

Ivan Herman: +1 to Dave

dave: Will open some github issues to start the process.

4. short names for documents

Tzviya Siegman:

Tzviya Siegman: We had many good suggestions for the short name.

(ivan) Proposed resolution: use wpub and pwpub

Tzviya Siegman: looks like wpub and pwpub are the winners.

Leonard Rosenthol: not thrilled with peeweepub pronunciation - but don’t have anything better :)

Ric Wright: Hard to hear ivan…

Leonard Rosenthol: thanks!

Chris Powell: peeweepub will have to be small…

Leonard Rosenthol: @ckpowell - ugh!

Romain Deltour: “web-pub” is certainly easier to pronounce

Hadrien Gardeur: The proposed names in another language (e.g. Français) could be an issue

Romain Deltour: the shortname could even be just “pub”, right?

romain: Does it matter? It’s just the short name.

Ivan Herman: It is true, this is only for the github repo and the URL

Resolution #2: use wpub and pwpub

Ivan Herman: Reminder: we do not plan to have a summer hiatus.

Hadrien Gardeur: pee wee is my new BFF

Leonard Rosenthol: enjoy your holidays…

5. Resolutions