Minutes and Resolutions Telecon 2011-11-23
- Briefly discussed multicol spanner issue again.
- Reviewed CSS3 Speech LC comments:
- Resolved: Move system cues to the next version
- Resolved: keep the preserve value of voice-family
- Resolved: keep
voice-duration
- Resolved: Not renaming voice-stress to voice-emphasis
- Resolved: Comment set from Robert Brown closed as non-issues.
- Resolved: Ask Tab to include list of issues provided by Håkon to official list of issues and publish next week.
- Resolved: Move
min() and max() from Values and Units Level 3 to Level 4
- Discussed splitting CSS3 Text into Level 3 and Level 4, see proposed split.
- Discussed Daniel Glazman’s proposal to unprefix
@keyframes
- Discussed inconsistencies in the unmaintained CSS3 Generated Content spec.
Full minutes
Minutes and Resolutions Telecon 2011-11-16
- Resolved: Do a meeting with the french community after-hours during the France f2f.
- Reviewed status of all modules.
- Resolved: Invite Ben Schwarz as an Invited Expert to work on W3C spec restyling effort.
- Resolved: Publish a WD of GCPM
- Assigned test suite owners to CSS3 Backgrounds and Borders, Transforms, Multi-column Layout
- fantasai and Kimberly to write a blog post to ask designers about how to handle margins of multicol spanning elements’ margins.
Full minutes
Minutes and Resolutions TPAC 2011-11-01 Tuesday Afternoon: radial-gradient() and argument notation, text-transform, Variables, Accessibility, Multicol
text-transform
- Discussed custom text-transforms and whether to keep full-size-kana. No consensus.
Gradients
- Discussed ways to make
radial-gradient() more readable.
Variables
Reviewed Tab’s new proposal for CSS Variables. Florian noted this was the first time everyone in the room was arguing over details of a variables proposal and not everyone was arguing against having it.
PF-CSS Joint Meeting
See PFWG Discussion notes on CSS accessibility. We discussed various topics including:
- Reordering content and its relationship to keyboard navigation
- Prioritization of spec reviews. fantasai actioned to update the current-work page to organize specs by stability rather than priority
- Using user stylesheets to work around broken sites, especially by using @document
- Animation prevent/pause controls, and warning authors about seizures
- Adding new Media Queries that could query accessibility-related preferences
- Flexibility of new layout models being introduced in CSS
- Rendering large data tables in small devices.
- Using MQ and
rem to make font-size-responsive designs
- Styling of form controls
- Handling multi-resolution cursors
- Screen-readers and generated content, list markers
- Providing fallbacks for visual icons
Full minutes part I Full minutes part II
Minutes and Resolutions TPAC 2011-11-01 Tuesday Morning: CSSOM, IDPF, Testing, CSS2.1, CSS3 Borders
CSSOM
- Discussed how to make progress on CSSOM spec.
- Resolved: Add a notice to the top DOM L2 Style indicating portions of the spec are obsolete linking to Bert’s email and linking to CSSOM. Also, the specific obsolete section of DOM L2 Style must be marked as such.
IDPF-CSSWG Joint Meeting
- IDPF and CSS discussed their very different goals and approaches to standardization and how to coordinate.
Testing and CSS2.1
- Resolved: Update the site/wiki/etc to publicly prioritize testing css3 modules rather than 2.1 (for those who want WG guidance on what to work on).
- Resolved: Have all 2.1 issues filed in bugzilla by the february meeting.
- Resolved: Every year, evaluate CSS2.1 and republish if necessary to keep it up-to-date.
- Resolved: Publish a CSS snapshot annually.
- Resolved: All issues with the tests (not the infrastructure) go to Shepherd.
Backgrounds and Borders
- Discussed ISSUE-89: definition of color transition center for border corners.
Full minutes part I Full minutes part II
Minutes and Resolutions TPAC 2011-10-31 Monday Afternoon: @font-face, Flexbox, Multicol, GCPM
CSS3 Fonts
- Resolved:
@font-face will be same-origin by default with the use of CORS to relax for HTTP
Flexbox
- Resolved:
flex-order takes - Resolved: Publish CSS3 Flexbox as WD
- Resolved: Absolutely-positioned elements leave behind placeholders (and all that implies).
- Resolved: Flexbox ordering property named
flex-order, not flex-index.
- Resolved: Not addressing stack axis in Flexbox
- Resolved: Logical keywords are flex-relative, not writing-mode-relative, when used in flexbox.
- Resolved: Effective min-width on flexes is a limitation after the initial flex resolution, not while figuring out preferred width of element.
- Resolved: Minimum width is just
min-width; min-content is not an implied minimum.
- Resolved: For
flex-align: stretch, honor max-width, then start-align.
- Unresolved discussion of
visibility: collapse.
Multi-column Layout
- Resolved:
break-before:column won’t force a blank column when the element is the first in the column.
- Resolved: Pages work the same as columns – an element at the top of the page with break-before won’t force a blank page.
- Resolved:
page-break-before/after doesn’t create a break if you’re at the top of the page, where at the top of the page means no content has been placed. Borders do not count as content. Zero-height elements count as content.
- Resolved: percentage in block dimension is computed relative to multi-col element, not column box height
- Discussed whether margins should collapse between column-spanning elements.
GCPM
- Reviewed new features for leaders.
- Reviewed Opera’s proposal for paged overflow controls. Some concern about defining navigation controls for paged views.
- Resolved: Publish CSS3 GCPM as soon as all edits are made
Full minutes
Minutes and Resolutions TPAC 2011-10-31 Monday Morning: Values and Units, Positioning, Animations
Values and Units
- Resolved: Remove
<fraction> and <grid> (ISSUE-193)
Positioned Layout
Arron presented a draft for CSS3 Positioning, which includes CSS2.1 absolute, fixed, and relative positioning, containing blocks, and z-index; and that adds:
position: center- An absolute positioning scheme in which
auto offsets compute to center the element within its containing block.
position: page- An absolute positioning scheme in which the current page box is the containing block.
There were concerns raised that the page positioning scheme being proposed would result in layouts that broke very badly if the document were either rendered onto continuous (scrolling) canvas, or if it were paginated differently than the author’s original intent (due to differently-sized fonts, differently-sized pages, etc.). Thus:
Resolved: Publish CSS3 Positioning as FPWD, without position: page.
Animations
- Resolved: CSS animations do not start or continue running on elements that are
display:none or inside display:none elements.
- Resolved: Two new co-editors Sylvain and dbaron for Animation module.
- Resolved:
all is allowed within lists in transition-property (but none is not). Which item wins works like for shorthands, so it’s silly to use all other than at the start of the list, but it’s not forbidden.
- Resolved: Fire the animation cancellation event on the disconnected element if the element has been removed
- Resolved: Will consider animating inset to outset box-shadows iff someone posts a proposal of exactly how that’s supposed to work.
Full minutes
Minutes and Resolutions TPAC 2011-10-30 Sunday Afternoon: UTR50, radial-gradient(), Exclusions and Shapes, Style Attr, Selectors 4, Paginated Layout on Screen
Vertical Text Layout
John Daggett summarized what Unicode is doing with UTR 50, which will define the default orientation of each character in vertical text. Those interested are encouraged to review the draft and send Unicode comments: Unicode Technical Report #50
Gradients
- Resolved: Stick with current set of features for radial-gradient().
Exclusions and Shapes
Rossen presented the current Exclusions and Shapes draft. Two major concerns were raised:
- Error accumulation vs. performance in cases where there is a cyclic dependency between the position/size of the exclusion and the surrounding content it affects. (For example, when the exclusion is centered or otherwise referencing the bottom edge, actually getting the position right would require multiple-pass layout. The current spec limits it to two passes, which will give wrong results in many cases.)
- Fluidity of the layout with respect to different amounts of content, different font sizes, different page sizes, etc. The feature seems to be designed assuming everything will always fit, and the examples make much use of fixed-size boxes.
Resolved: Publish FPWD of Exclusions
Minutes and Resolutions TPAC 2011-10-30 Sunday Afternoon II: Style Attr, Selectors 4, Paginated Layout on Screen
Style Attributes
- Resolved: Publish Style Attribute PR as soon as we have the implementation reports.
Selectors 4
Daniel raised some concern that web designers are assuming everything in Selectors 4 will make it to CR, even though it’s a very early stage draft and we don’t know what will make it and what not. (The ability to select ancestors of elements is a particular area of concern since it is difficult to optimize for CSS selection in dynamic environments.)
Paginated Layouts (GCPM)
Håkon presented a demo of a new paginated layout feature in Opera: it uses the overflow properties to switch the UA into a paginated mode. The demo also included some new features for UI to link independent documents together into a single paged presentation.
Full Minutes Part I Full Minutes Part II
Minutes and Resolutions TPAC 2011-10-30 Sunday Morning: Issue Tracking, Regions
Issue Tracking
- Discussed how certain editors are not tracking or responding to issues on their specs and other general issue-tracking issues.
- Resolved: Each module must have one publicly-accessible, CSSWG-editable way of tracking issues.
- Resolved: Add link to issues list from spec header
- Resolved: use one of bugzilla, wiki, tracker or inline to track issues.
CSS Regions
- howcome raised issue of auto-generation of regions in order to show overflowing (and thus currently invisible) content. Bert pointed at a feature in Template Layout that does this.
- General consensus that multi-column elements should be allowed to be regions; Alex and Vincent to propose text. (Issue 12)
- Discussion of special behavior of in Regions; agreement that it should behave just like any other element, and the use case for seamless inclusions should be addressed some other way. (Issue 19)
- Resolved:
regionLayoutUpdate is an asynchronous event (Issue 10)
- Resolved: close open issue on whether
flow-from turns an element into a region, reopen if needed later (Issue 18)
- Resolved: If
content computes to normal, then the element takes the flow. (Issue 22)
- Discussion of which properties apply to region pseudo-elements.
- Resolved: publish regions and template if there are no objections in 2 weeks
Full minutes
Radial Gradient Readability
At the CSSWG F2F last week, I raised the issue that the radial gradients we were discussing were unreadable to me, and probably therefore to much of the intended audience. It was not at all obvious by looking at the gradient syntax what the various numbers and lengths might be.
radial-gradient(60% 43%, 25px 25px, #b03 99%, transparent)
So Tab Atkins, David Baron, Brad Kemper, Brian Manthos and I hashed out an alternative syntax.
radial-gradient(circle to 25px at 60% 43%, #b03 99%, transparent)
We’d like your opinion on which is preferred and why.
Examples
| Current WD
| Current ED
|
radial-gradient(white, black) |
radial-gradient(white, black) |
radial-gradient(farthest-corner ellipse, center, white, black) |
radial-gradient(ellipse to farthest-corner at center, white, black) |
radial-gradient(top left, white, black) |
radial-gradient(at top left, white, black) |
radial-gradient(top left, farthest-corner ellipse, white, black) |
radial-gradient(ellipse at top left to farthest-corner, white, black) |
radial-gradient(circle, white, black) |
radial-gradient(circle, white, black) |
radial-gradient(circle, center, white, black) |
radial-gradient(circle at center, white, black) |
radial-gradient(center, 5em 5em, white, black) |
radial-gradient(to 5em, white, black) |
radial-gradient(center, 5em 5em, white, black) |
radial-gradient(circle to 5em at center, white, black) |
radial-gradient(75% 75%, closest-side circle, white, black) |
radial-gradient(circle to closest-side at 75% 75%, white, black) |
radial-gradient(25% 2em, 15px 30%, white, black) |
radial-gradient(ellipse to 15px 30% at 25% 2em, white, black) |
The generic forms are (very roughly speaking):
General Syntax
| Current WD
| Current ED
|
radial-gradient(position, [size || shape], color-stops) |
radial-gradient(shape [to size || at position], color-stops) |
|
Shape/size and position are optional, unless the shape/size is given with explicit lengths, in which case the position must also be specified
|
Each of shape, size, and position are optional. The size and shape clauses can be reordered.
|
As a side effect, the keyword-based syntax more easily allows us to add other capabilities in the future. For example, offset radials could be expressed using a from position clause for the color origin.
So, which is better or easier to read, the current WD syntax or the current ED syntax (and why)?
You can respond on CSS3.info or on www-style.
Minutes and Resolutions 2011-10-26
- Reviewed Tab’s proposed note for unmaintained specs.
- Discussed TPAC logistics, observers (probably all cannot fit).
- Resolved: Deferred cap-height unit proposal to level 4.
- Discussed minimum ranges/precision for CSS values.
- Resolved: Not moving value serialization from CSSOM into CSS3 Values and Units.
- Resolved: Rename
vm as vmin.
- Resolved:
vh/vw/vmin stay as percentages of viewport size; clarify spec.
- Resolved: Move Stages of Value Computation section to CSS3 Cascade, and update CSS3 Cascade and sync to 2.1 so that it’s no longer obsolete, just has no active editor.
Full minutes
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