Meeting minutes
Supplemental Guidance Redesign
Shawn: Reminder that we spoke before the affordance of the links were not clear enough, have addressed that with underlining. Background information - there is a link to WCAG2, etc - these about links are meant to guide someone who may have landed here from a Search engine etc. And we want to keep this background info together. Has been suggested to use 'Background' or 'Related Information' or something else more useful for a newbie.
Laura: I don't have strong feelings about the wording but I do have strong feelings about so much text in the header. Honestly, even the italicized bits should maybe not even be there at all.
Shawn: We found that it was vital that people who come here know that this is not required...
Laura: It will be missed up there, should be called out in another way - maybe under the navigation.
Kevin: 'About' is the word to use - the other options are slightly off kilter. It is not background information and it's not really related information. I feel quite strongly that is the right word.
Howard: It is quite confusing to read that it is not required but still makes things 'more' accessible.
Shawn: How about the link beneath that explains why they are not required
Howard: It does not seem clear that is what will be in the link.
Michele: It feels like this page has 2 h1s and don't know what is most important. Is this the design for every page?
Shawn: Yes
Michele: And what does the first page say?
… so is the idea to provide context wherever people drop in?
Shawn: Yes
Michele: It's readable only when you read from top to bottom. I am not sure which is the actual h1. It is confusing as is now.
Shawn: If you land here you can get oriented by the info at the top, if you use it a lot you will stop looking at it. Terms like 'banner blindness' or 'mask out' apply here and was considered in this design.
<dmontalvo> +1 to "About"
Shawn: If anyone has coding resources to help, we would appreciate those. Otherwise we are likely to go forward as is and hope you can live with it for Phase 1. If anyone has really strong objections, now is the time.
Laura: I have no objections to continuing to go forward but would pay close attention to how people respond and use it.
Shawn: We have been doing some informal user data gathering and this is patterned on the main WAI page.
Kris Anne: If there is a lot of space that makes it even more confusing - it looks more disjointed. I also prefer calling it about.
Kevin: You mentioned if we could have anyone to look at it. Are there links to other options?
Shawn: No. we have not saved our previous iterations in a way that is easy to fund them unfortunately. some static screen shots in GitHub, though.
Kevin: Send me the links and I will ask a couple of interaction designers for input.
Howard: Another thing I recall there was previous pattern and next pattern and 'pattern' seems like a confusing word and not consistent with how we usually reference the guidance.
Shawn: It is the wording used in the COGA Content Usable document that EOWG reviewed previously.
Howard: I still think it is confusing
Shawn: We can't change content from published "TR" document by COGA
Shawn: While we can't change it, maybe we could better explain it.
Steve: After a lot of discussion with the AG we have settled on these terms with their constraints about what is acceptable and not.
Shawn: Thanks for the input. We really want to get out Phase 1 and assume refinements will come.
Outreach - what WAI is working on
Shawn: For a long time, we have wanted to do this. Many people including many in this group do not have a clear idea of exactly what WAI is working on. So for both internal and external reasons, this is important. Business development (recruiting for W3C membership) will be at CSUN in March.
<shawn> https://
Shawn: Please take a look at requirements
… welcome your input
Kris Anne: So this is meant to be a page within the W3C site?
Shawn: I am thinking it would be front and center on the WAI site
… we may want to promote it as News on the W3C site
Kris Anne: If people go to w3.org it looks like no one is doing anything and looks quite outdated. I don't even know how to get to WAI from their.
Shawn: They have been working on a MAJOR redesign and it is sadly behind schedule
Kris Anne: It is a great idea but want to think about where it goes to be effective.
Shawn: CSUN is in two weeks so let's get it done and then think about promoting it.
<krisannekinney> +1 for needs based work
Kevin: Thinking about the user scenarios...the core scenarios are - what's the road map and what can I get involved with. Not sure about the research. Another thing is that when you list all the TFs, it is really dense and boring. But if you focus on the actual work and the need that is being addressed it becomes more compelling and engaging.
Shawn: I agree. On your first point an issue is that people start to do work that is already in process here. Another point is to not rely on acronyms on the first page but do we still want to include them so that people know what they are when they are encountered?
Kevin: Nah, they will get to acronyms eventually and the focus on WHAT is the work being done rather than the acronyzed WG amd TFs
Shawn: What about document acronyms (not WG and TF acronyms)?
Kevin: No even that can be off-putting
Shawn: Would like to group things so we don't have a long laundry list and consider how much detail to put in there. Look forward to your input on those questions.
<shawn> https://
Shawn: For example, here is current and upcoming work just for EO. We would not include all that but the challenge is what to list, what not to, how to keep it organized, making it compelling and understandable.
Sharron: And engaging so they want to join if it is for recruiting
<Laura_> I have to drop for another meeting. Sorry for the late notice. It just popped up on my calendar.
Shawn: Yes so look at the participation page, and see if we can improve it. If anyone has the time, skill, and interest in making this more engaging that would be great.
Kevin: And presentation must stay within WAI brand approach?
Shawn: It does...
<shawn> https://
Shawn: So take a look at this and scroll down to see the image of the prototype. We will soon bring this to EO - it is a project to update the ARIA authoring practices guide. They used the basic design pattern and made it more graphic and 'fancier.'
… so we will have to balance between having cool visual design and remaining consistent with the WAI web site.
Sharron: A question is how far can we extend graphic design -- and still look like you're on the WAI website
Shawn: we have some like the Biz Case and Media Resources with imagery but not to this extent. We will consider this later on.
Shawn: I will say that there are some things that I like about this but some that I am not sure about. It is something that we need to think about. Kevin's question was how limited are we and we are not completely limited by where we have been but also want to be mindful of style consistency.
… would love for the Accessibility Fundamentals to have more of a neat visual design, maybe workflow etc
Sharron: Look at Planning and Managing
Michele: And who will maintain the What WAI is doing page?
… is it a requirement to make it easy to maintain?
Shawn: Yes that is a requirement, the WGs themselves will be expected to maintain it. Most are comfortable with GitHub and during the WAI coordination every 2 weeks we can remind that as well. Expect to have a lightweight and successful updating process.
… expect it would be a section here and there to change maybe once a month. Would people want to know what changes?
Michele: That goes back to who the audience is. Not sure we want to clutter the page with 'What's New' - either people already vested, working and keeping current or someone curious about how to help.
Kevin:some form of what's coming down the line is useful, but maybe not massive. Keep it short. Pulls out the new things.
Shawn:we need to figure out the level of detail.
Kevin: How many are starting that are new and upcoming.
Michele: why is that important to know?
Kevin:to keep people engaged.
Michele: what's on the list and are you just saying what's per year?
Brent: added a few comments on the requirements document on GitHub. be a little more clear that its for all of WAI, not just EO so the scope is going to be bigger. It will be helpful to have guidance on the format of what each entries would be. A few brainstorm of names there too.
Jade: why does it need to be a resource? Can it be a news update?
Shawn: When we redid this in 2018, we thought to do more with the News, but its mostly draft publications. Do we want to make updates as news updates?
Jade: maybe its easier to manage, rather than a page that people have to update and then if people stop updating its just out of date.
Michele: I like the idea of a newsletter. can keep an archive of the newsletter. I like the idea of something more summarized.
Shawn: News items are pretty short on the home page.
Kevin:: i can subscribe to the mailing list, so what's the homepage doing for me? Not sure i would go to a WAI page to see what's going on with WAI.
Shawn:that's why we created that separate WAI announce email list - or from Twitter.
Brent:I think it would be better to have what we're working on there, rather than the News.
Shawn: Draft idea: Link would go ahead of the news, or maybe replace it.
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to comment on first scenario and to comment on first scenario -- and scope: W3C accessibility
Kris Anne: I would like to see if we can create a separate page. The first scenario is important from WAI's perspective.
Shawn: scope is accessibility at W3C
Title brainstorm for What WAI is working on
<brent> Link to Title GitHub Issue: https://
Kevin: Accessibility work at W3C
Kevin:Get involved with accessibility at W3C
Shawn: please put brainstorms in GitHub
Shawn: anything you want to follow up on?
W3C Legal Entity/Reorganization
Shawn: W3C is currently not an distinct organization, it is agreements with 4 hosts in US, Europe, China, Japan. There has been talk for many months (years) about W3C becoming a "legal entity", a non-profit/NGO. Probably there will be a meeting on 9 March with some folks from the W3C Advisory Board and WAI groups to share more information on the situation.
Shawn: There are issues related to EOWG. Some people (Members and even staff) would like W3C to just to focus on the standards, with limited staff, and not do things like education and outreach (EO). That issue is part of the legal entity/reorganization discussion. W3C members that think the EO work is important, please communicate that during discussions. -- talk with your AC Rep
Kevin: ISO is an international standards organization and they have standards related to accessibility. My challenge would be that those standards are not well known. And they're not well known because they don't have Education and Outreach. And for the standards to be become widely known, you must have an education and outreach effort.
Sharron: we need to make the case to our AC reps so that they bring the argument of why EO is important. We should develop talking points for AC reps.
Brent: will the meeting provide people background on the why of this? Is the meeting is good place to bring up the EO thing?
Shawn: Yes, background will be provided before the meeting. Good question about bringing up EO issue. ... Maybe better to get together documentation (next agenda item) and some high-level supporters before bringing it up more.
W3C Inreach
Shawn: Background: EOWG exists because it's charter is approved by W3C Advisory Committee Representatives "AC Reps", every 2-3 years. 2017 re-chartering was a hard year for WAI, including EOWG - there were objections to proposed charters. Here are some things we did to demonstrate importance of EOWG: EOWG Charter 2017 Additional Information with answers to AC Rep questions, e.g.,. "What real world impact the work... has had in the past...", "Active participants and engagement in the work?" [p.s. one of the reasons why we harp on participants completing surveys :-], and W3C Member and Community Use of EOWG Resources
... In 2020, we did a better job of the members communicating the value of EO before the charter went to AC Rep vote. We had some statements ahead of time, and we spoke with individual AC Reps. It pretty much sailed through.
... Now — for legal entity, and next year for re-charting — we again need to present why many W3C Members support EOWG - in concrete ways, e.g., using EOWG resources. In the work for this week, if you follow the link to record your outreach and what you find in the wild, you can add info there that helps us show that value. We need some one to step up to lead a project to collect that type of info and present it.
Jade: JISC is a group of Accessibility professionals in the UK so maybe share about resources with that group.
Shawn: even if its something we can list on our page, that would be helpful.
Jade: I can ask people to let us know when they use our resources, maybe with a link back or a logo.
Shawn: Hopefully an EOWG participant(s) will step up to document talking points for talking with AC Reps, quotes from Members about importance of EOWG, examples of how Members and others are using our resources, etc. Can be wiki page or other.
Sharron: we should probably take this back to the chairs to define and issue a clear job description for what we are asking a person to actually do.
Shawn: Great! Thanks!
Work for this week
Sharron: feedback about the weekly survey is positive and we will make another one to continue the conversations from today. Will keep Work for This Week updated in the wiki.
<kevin> +1 to Weekly survey... really handy!
<Zakim> brent, you wanted to say meeting content
Sharron: the quality of the work EO does is something we want to demonstrate and continue to promote.
Shawn: Yes, I should have noted that one of the reasons the 2020 re-chartering went so much better than 2017 was because of the high-quality of resources from EOWG from 2017-2020 (and beyond)!
Sharron: Thanks all!