ISSUE-31

missing-alt

What to do when a reasonable text equivalent is unknown/unavailable?

State:
OPEN
Product:
HTML 5 spec
Raised by:
Dan Connolly
Opened on:
2008-02-07
Description:
Raised on behalf of Laura Carslon & the WAI PF WG.

The HTML 5 draft allows documents containing img elements without the alt attribute to be valid in certain situations. It is unclear what the net accessibility implications of this would be. It has also been suggested that the conformance requirements here should be dictated by WCAG.

Relevant links:
http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueAltAttribute
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0082.html
Related Actions Items:
Related emails:
  1. minutes HTML weekly 9 July for review (from connolly@w3.org on 2009-07-09)
  2. Input on the agenda (from ian@hixie.ch on 2009-06-15)
  3. Input on the agenda (from ian@hixie.ch on 2009-06-01)
  4. Input on the agenda (from ian@hixie.ch on 2009-05-11)
  5. minutes: HTML WG telecon 2009-05-07 [draft] (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2009-05-07)
  6. Input on the agenda (from ian@hixie.ch on 2009-04-27)
  7. Input on the agenda (from ian@hixie.ch on 2009-03-31)
  8. Input on the agenda (from ian@hixie.ch on 2009-03-24)
  9. Input on the agenda (from ian@hixie.ch on 2009-03-16)
  10. {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2009-03-12 (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2009-03-11)
  11. {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2009-03-12 (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2009-03-11)
  12. Input on the agenda (from ian@hixie.ch on 2009-03-09)
  13. Re: Example canvas element use - accessibility concerns (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2009-02-24)
  14. RE: Example canvas element use - accessibility concerns (from foliot@wats.ca on 2009-02-24)
  15. Re: Example canvas element use - accessibility concerns (from rubys@intertwingly.net on 2009-02-24)
  16. Re: Input on the agenda (from connolly@w3.org on 2009-02-23)
  17. Input on the agenda (from ian@hixie.ch on 2009-02-23)
  18. minutes: HTML WG telecon 2009-02-19 [draft] (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2009-02-19)
  19. Re: Need differentiator between 'no alt text provided' and 'no alt text necessary' (from joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie on 2009-02-18)
  20. Re: Need differentiator between 'no alt text provided' and 'no alt text necessary' (from connolly@w3.org on 2009-02-18)
  21. Re: Need differentiator between 'no alt text provided' and 'no alt text necessary' (from faulkner.steve@gmail.com on 2009-02-12)
  22. Re: Need differentiator between 'no alt text provided' and 'no alt text necessary' (from chaals@opera.com on 2009-02-12)
  23. Re: Need differentiator between 'no alt text provided' and 'no alt text necessary' (from jcraig@apple.com on 2009-02-11)
  24. Re: Need differentiator between 'no alt text provided' and 'no alt text necessary' (from connolly@w3.org on 2009-02-11)
  25. [Minutes] HTML Weekly Teleconference 05 February 2009 (from karl+w3c@la-grange.net on 2009-02-05)
  26. minutes: HTML WG weekly telcon 22 Jan 2009 (from connolly@w3.org on 2009-01-23)
  27. minutes: HTML Weekly Teleconference 15 Jan 2009 (from connolly@w3.org on 2009-01-16)
  28. minutes: HTML Weekly Teleconference 08 Jan 2009 (from connolly@w3.org on 2009-01-16)
  29. Action 90 & 92: Ask Matt May if he can help represent WAI WGs in the HTML WG - due 2009-01-15 - open (from masinter@adobe.com on 2009-01-14)
  30. HTML WG telcon 2008-08-28 (from Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com on 2008-08-26)
  31. Re: requiring the alt attribute (from rob@robburns.com on 2008-08-24)
  32. requiring the alt attribute [was Re: Another HTML5 alt conformance question for clarification] (from rob@robburns.com on 2008-08-24)
  33. Re: toward a schedule of HTML WG issues (from connolly@w3.org on 2008-08-22)
  34. Re: toward a schedule of HTML WG issues (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2008-08-22)
  35. toward a schedule of HTML WG issues (from connolly@w3.org on 2008-08-21)
  36. Re: ISSUE-58 (curly alt): Use of 'curly brackets' to identify a graphical image by its use or type by inserting a generic identifier / descriptor in curly braces as the @alt value for an IMG, [HTML 5 spec] (from joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie on 2008-08-13)
  37. Re: ISSUE-58 (curly alt): Use of 'curly brackets' to identify a graphical image by its use or type by inserting a generic identifier / descriptor in curly braces as the @alt value for an IMG, [HTML 5 spec] (from connolly@w3.org on 2008-08-13)
  38. {minutes} HTML WG issue-tracking telcon 2008-06-19 (from mike@w3.org on 2008-06-25)
  39. {minutes} HTML WG issue-tracking telcon 2008-06-05 (from mike@w3.org on 2008-06-06)
  40. Re: alt - data and reason Re: One more thought... (from mjs@apple.com on 2008-05-19)
  41. Re: alt - data and reason Re: One more thought... (from chaals@opera.com on 2008-05-19)
  42. RE: alt - data and reason Re: One more thought... (from love26@gorge.net on 2008-05-19)
  43. alt - data and reason Re: One more thought... (from chaals@opera.com on 2008-05-19)
  44. Re: Use-case for where alt text would be truly unavailable (from chaals@opera.com on 2008-04-25)
  45. Re: Use-case for where alt text would be truly unavailable (from faulkner.steve@gmail.com on 2008-04-18)
  46. minutes HTML WG weekly 17 Apr (from connolly@w3.org on 2008-04-17)
  47. Is this an accurate reflection of where we stand today? (was RE: New issue: IMG section of HTML5 draft contradicts WCAG 1 & WCAG 2 (draft)) (from foliot@wats.ca on 2008-04-16)
  48. Re: Use-case for where alt text would be truly unavailable (from raman@google.com on 2008-04-16)
  49. Re: Use-case for where alt text would be truly unavailable (from chaals@opera.com on 2008-04-16)
  50. Re: New issue: IMG section of HTML5 draft contradicts WCAG 1 & WCAG 2 (draft) (from Alfred.S.Gilman@ieee.org on 2008-04-14)
  51. Re: New issue: IMG section of HTML5 draft contradicts WCAG 1 & WCAG 2 (draft) (from faulkner.steve@gmail.com on 2008-04-11)
  52. Re: New issue: IMG section of HTML5 draft contradicts WCAG 1 & WCAG 2 (draft) (from connolly@w3.org on 2008-04-11)
  53. Re: omitting alt: closing an open issue with a bound action item in progress (from faulkner.steve@gmail.com on 2008-04-11)
  54. Re: omitting alt: closing an open issue with a bound action item in progress (from connolly@w3.org on 2008-04-11)
  55. Re: [html4all] New issue: IMG section of HTML5 draft contradicts WCAG 1 & WCAG 2 (draft) (from chaals@opera.com on 2008-04-11)
  56. Re: several messages relating to the alt='' attribute (from lhs@malform.no on 2008-04-11)
  57. omitting alt: closing an open issue with a bound action item in progress (from laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com on 2008-04-10)
  58. Re: several messages relating to the alt='' attribute (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-04-10)
  59. minutes HTML WG weekly 21 Feb (from connolly@w3.org on 2008-03-09)
  60. ISSUE-31 (missing-alt): Should img without alt ever be conforming [HTML 5 spec] (from sysbot+tracker@w3.org on 2008-02-07)

Related notes:

2008-04-10 22:11:35: I've examined this issue and all related materials, and couldn't find a way to deal with mass-upload image hosting sites and Rorschach inkblot tests that didn't involve not including the alt='' attribute. Since alt='' is still required in all other cases, this shouldn't, as far as I can tell, affect accessibility of other pages.

Please re-open if you have a reason to address the above issues in some other way. [Ian Hickson]

2008-04-11 10:12:39: Reopened - there is an ongoing action item related to this, and clearly no consensus yet. [Charles McCathieNevile]

2008-04-11 11:57:40: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0225.html is the start of the thread (called new issue, but it isn't) about HTML and WCAG drafts. [Charles McCathieNevile]

2008-04-11 19:42:17: (Moving to None product to indicate that the issue now is about coordination with another working group rather than about specific issues with the spec itself. I will move it back once coordination issues are resolved.) [Ian Hickson]

2008-04-16 08:34:10: Some more thread roots - this has generated a *lot* of discussion...

http://www.w3.org/mid/fb6fbf560804141048u16a79483ic355ef11366166dc@mail.gmail.com - "An attempted summary" by Jim Jewett

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0295.html - "Re: New issue: IMG section of HTML5 draft ..." (thread broken) from Katie Haritos-Shea

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0372.html - same thread broke again from Henri Sivonen

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0334.html - "point of clarification in alt debates" - Steven Faulkner

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0400.html - "there are markup options" from Al Gilman

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0408.html - "request for review of alt and alt value..." from Laura Carlson

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0461.html = "Use case for where alt would be truly unavailable" from Andrew Sidwell

[Charles McCathieNevile]

2008-04-25 04:30:35: This is pretty clearly a question of what the spec requires. [Charles McCathieNevile]

2008-08-14 16:35:43: Title changed per resolution on August 14th, 2008 telecon. [Shawn Medero]

2008-08-14 16:58:23: The HTML 5 editor's draft has changed significantly since ISSUE-31 was opened:

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#alt

One of those changes ("curly braces" proposal) resulted in ISSUE-58 being opened to address concerns that the "curly braces" proposal should NOT compromise the author's ability to provide a textual equivalent. The August 14th, 2008 telecon determined that ISSUE-58 was a duplicate of ISSUE-31 and the resolution was to change the title of ISSUE-31 to more accurately state the HTML working group's (and other WGs) concerns around HTML 5's @alt language.

One of the major discussion points in ISSUE-58 was that using @role for machine-parseable values would be a better approach than the one set forth in the "curly braces" proposal. Laura Carlson noted in the telcon that the @role proposal is detailed on the HTML WG wiki:
http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueAltAttribute#head-27468e7ee9afd1f9e07186c8d74f0b0168b3975a [Shawn Medero]

2008-08-25 15:46:07: nice summary:

Re: some reflections on @alt usage (and summary of research so far)
Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:45:24 +0000 (UTC)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Aug/0602.html [Dan Connolly]

2008-08-26 21:21:04: Ian's summary of the current state (Aug 26th, 2008) the @alt draft text and how he came to his findings:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Aug/0759.html [Shawn Medero]

2009-01-22 17:36:27: raised pending proposal [Dan Connolly]

2009-02-11 22:59:14: Marking this OPEN as Ian's proposal of 6 Feb 2009 20:15:34 +0000 seems to have
a critical mass of support
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0184.html
[Dan Connolly]

Display change log.

Chris Wilson <cwilso@microsoft.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Chairs, Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>, Michael(tm) Smith <mike@w3.org>, Staff Contacts
Tracker, originally developed by Dean Jackson, is developed and maintained by the Systems Team <w3t-sys@w3.org>.
$Id: index.php,v 1.201 2009/03/10 15:57:30 dom Exp $