edit

Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 07 March 2013

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.03.07
Seen
Christine Runnegar, Curt Tilmes, Daniel Garijo, Graham Klyne, Hook Hua, Ivan Herman, James Cheney, Jun Zhao, Luc Moreau, Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Sam Coppens, Satya Sahoo, Simon Miles, Ted Thibodeau, Tom De Nies
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Daniel Garijo
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. the minutes of Feb 28, 2013 link
  2. take http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicCommentsCR#ISSUE-610_.28query_profiles_and_use_cases_not_normative.29 as the group response to issue 610 link
  3. close issues marked "pending review" for prov-aq link
Topics
  1. admin

  2. PR update

    Congratulations to all note editors for staging notes. Publication request for all our documents was sent on March 5. Transition teleconference with W3C directors is to take place on March 8th. Issue 610 was outstanding in the tracker. We discussed the nature of the group response. Simon drafted it on the wiki, and the group endorsed this response. Luc to contact the reviewer with the group response.

  3. Timetable to Recommendations and Notes

    Ivan summarized the W3C process after publication of Proposed Recommendation. The end of the voting period for W3C membership is 9 April (4 weeks after publication of PR). We agreed to aim for a publication of recommendations on April 30th. Therefore *ALL* documents need to be staged in their final form by April 23rd. All editors are invited to produce a schedule of work, ensuring that documents are ready for internal reviews, reviewed, and finally revised by April 23rd.

  4. End of Provenance Working Group

    We then discussed the end of the Provenance Working Group. While it is recognized that the group can exist till the end of summer, once all our documents are published, there is very little left to do. Given that attendance and energy is reducing week by week, it is desirable to terminate the group activities shortly after publication of documents. Outstanding tasks to undertake include finishing the namespace, html pages, and provenance of documents (ideally, these should be complete at REC publication time), and also tidying the Wiki and FAQ.

  5. PROV-AQ

    As we were short of time before publication of the previous prov-aq WD, the chair was keen to give sufficient attention to this document, to ensure proper review before final publication. Graham made a few suggestions to progress. We agree to close all issues closed "pending reviews". All reviews, internal and external, will be responded to. Finally, Graham will, by email, put proposals forward, seeking group endorsement: if consensus cannot be reached by email, we will resolve them at the next teleconference. This should allow the document to be finalized before the final review.

15:45:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-prov-irc

15:45:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:45:06 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be PROV

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:45:06 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes

15:45:07 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:45:07 <trackbot> Date: 07 March 2013
15:48:50 <Luc> trackbot, start telcon

Luc Moreau: trackbot, start telcon

15:48:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:48:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be PROV

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:48:55 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes

15:48:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:48:56 <trackbot> Date: 07 March 2013
15:49:00 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:49:00 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes

15:49:30 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.03.07
15:50:00 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
15:50:09 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

15:50:26 <Luc> Hi, I am looking for a scribe

Luc Moreau: Hi, I am looking for a scribe

15:50:29 <dgarijo> Luc, I see no scribe volunteer. I can scribe if needed.

Daniel Garijo: Luc, I see no scribe volunteer. I can scribe if needed.

15:50:51 <dgarijo> :)

Daniel Garijo: :)

15:53:44 <Luc> thank you daniel, it's very appreciated!

Luc Moreau: thank you daniel, it's very appreciated!

15:54:41 <Luc> scribe dgarijo

Luc Moreau: scribe dgarijo

15:54:45 <Luc> scribe: dgarijo

(Scribe set to Daniel Garijo)

15:58:15 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

15:58:23 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9

15:58:37 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P9 is me

Zakim, ??P9 is me

15:58:37 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it

15:59:07 <Luc> topic: admin

1. admin

15:59:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:59:59 <jun> zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Jun Zhao: zakim, [IPcaller] is me

15:59:59 <Zakim> +jun; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it

16:00:35 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.238.059.aaaa

16:00:57 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aabb

16:01:08 <Luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

Luc Moreau: zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me

16:01:08 <Zakim> +Luc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it

16:01:15 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

16:01:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see dgarijo, jun, Luc, +1.818.731.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see dgarijo, jun, Luc, +1.818.731.aabb

16:01:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see TallTed, Curt, Paolo, Luc, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, gk1, jun, dgarijo, stain, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see TallTed, Curt, Paolo, Luc, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, gk1, jun, dgarijo, stain, trackbot

16:01:25 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes

16:01:27 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

16:01:28 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

16:01:28 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

16:01:37 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.818.731.aabb

16:01:40 <Zakim> + +44.131.467.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.131.467.aacc

16:01:40 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

16:01:41 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

16:01:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:02:01 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aadd

16:02:15 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.03.07

Ted Thibodeau: TallTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.03.07

16:02:43 <Luc> ```http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2013-02-28

Luc Moreau: ```http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2013-02-28

16:02:43 <dgarijo> Luc: update to proposed recommendation, we'll have a look to the timetable and the date of the end of the wg.

Luc Moreau: update to proposed recommendation, we'll have a look to the timetable and the date of the end of the wg.

16:02:51 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink]

16:02:53 <Luc> proposed: to accept the minutes of Feb 28, 2013

PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of Feb 28, 2013

16:02:55 <dgarijo> +1

+1

16:03:00 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:03:01 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

16:03:07 <hook> +1

Hook Hua: +1

16:03:22 <gk1> Oops,  just seen the time.  Connecting.

Graham Klyne: Oops, just seen the time. Connecting.

16:03:22 <Paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1

16:03:40 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

16:03:47 <Luc> resolved:  the minutes of Feb 28, 2013

RESOLVED: the minutes of Feb 28, 2013

16:03:48 <jcheney> just joined, irc was slow

James Cheney: just joined, irc was slow

16:04:14 <dgarijo> Luc: pending action on me, I will look at the faq.

Luc Moreau: pending action on me, I will look at the faq.

16:04:15 <Luc> topic: PR update

2. PR update

Summary: Congratulations to all note editors for staging notes. Publication request for all our documents was sent on March 5. Transition teleconference with W3C directors is to take place on March 8th. Issue 610 was outstanding in the tracker. We discussed the nature of the group response. Simon drafted it on the wiki, and the group endorsed this response. Luc to contact the reviewer with the group response.

<lUC>Summary: Congratulations to all note editors for staging notes. Publication request for all our documents was sent on March 5.  Transition teleconference with W3C directors is to take place on March 8th. Issue 610 was outstanding in the tracker. We discussed the nature of the group response. Simon drafted it on the wiki, and the group endorsed this response. Luc to contact the reviewer with the group response.
16:04:30 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PublicationRequestMarch12

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PublicationRequestMarch12

16:04:41 <dgarijo> ... the first news is that we sent a publication request for all publications

... the first news is that we sent a publication request for all publications

16:04:51 <ivan> no

Ivan Herman: no

16:04:52 <dgarijo> ... haven't heard from the webmaster yet

... haven't heard from the webmaster yet

16:04:56 <ivan> zakim, unmute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me

16:04:58 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted

16:05:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:05:02 <dgarijo> ... ivan, are you still in MIT?

... ivan, are you still in MIT?

16:05:04 <dgarijo> Ivan: no

Ivan Herman: no

16:05:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

16:05:48 <dgarijo> Luc: we have the transition teleconference this week where we will say whether we are ok to progress.

Luc Moreau: we have the transition teleconference this week where we will say whether we are ok to progress.

16:06:04 <dgarijo> Ivan: remind me tomorrow about the media type stuff

Ivan Herman: remind me tomorrow about the media type stuff

16:06:08 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19

16:06:10 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

16:06:12 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo

16:06:31 <Christine> Zakim, ??P19 is Christine

Christine Runnegar: Zakim, ??P19 is Christine

16:06:31 <Zakim> +Christine; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Christine; got it

16:06:34 <TomDN> Zakim, ?P20 is probably me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, ?P20 is probably me

16:06:34 <Zakim> sorry, TomDN, I do not understand your question

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, TomDN, I do not understand your question

16:06:41 <dgarijo> Luc: I looked at the tracker and no outstanding issues against prov dm, constraints, notes, prov-o html

Luc Moreau: I looked at the tracker and no outstanding issues against prov dm, constraints, notes, prov-o html

16:06:46 <TomDN> Zakim, ??P20 is probably me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, ??P20 is probably me

16:06:46 <Zakim> +TomDN?; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN?; got it

16:06:49 <Zakim> +??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26

16:07:00 <dgarijo> ... Issue 116 is an issue against prov-o

... ISSUE-116 is an issue against prov-o

16:07:07 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/10

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/10

16:07:15 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/610

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/610

16:07:36 <dgarijo> ivan: having an issue for proposed rec is not good.

Ivan Herman: having an issue for proposed rec is not good.

16:07:58 <dgarijo> Luc: I think it's more related to prov-aq than prov-o

Luc Moreau: I think it's more related to prov-aq than prov-o

16:08:51 <dgarijo> Luc: are you talking about domain specific specializations of prov-o

Luc Moreau: are you talking about domain specific specializations of prov-o

16:09:14 <dgarijo> GK: No, just about query profiling. I don't think it has to do with queries.

Graham Klyne: No, just about query profiling. I don't think it has to do with queries.

16:09:27 <dgarijo> ivan: I don't remember this having been discussed.

Ivan Herman: I don't remember this having been discussed.

16:09:52 <Zakim> + +329331aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +329331aaee

16:10:03 <jcheney> this seems like it could be handled in a faq/best practice doc

James Cheney: this seems like it could be handled in a faq/best practice doc

16:10:09 <dgarijo> ... it suggests to define subsets of prov-o with different ontologies, etc. I'm not saying that I fully understand, but I don't think we've got to do that.

... it suggests to define subsets of prov-o with different ontologies, etc. I'm not saying that I fully understand, but I don't think we've got to do that.

16:10:14 <SamCoppens> zakim, +329331aaee is me

Sam Coppens: zakim, +329331aaee is me

16:10:14 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it

16:10:15 <dgarijo> ... it's not an aq thing

... it's not an aq thing

16:11:02 <dgarijo> Luc: what I would've liked is a formal response from the group

Luc Moreau: what I would've liked is a formal response from the group

16:11:15 <dgarijo> ... because we can't go on the call with this issue

... because we can't go on the call with this issue

16:11:28 <satya> The primary issue of different models for "statements, named graphs, resources" does not make sense - there is no distinction between these terms

Satya Sahoo: The primary issue of different models for "statements, named graphs, resources" does not make sense - there is no distinction between these terms

16:11:40 <dgarijo> GK: the sense that I'm getting is the concern about interoperability of applications

Graham Klyne: the sense that I'm getting is the concern about interoperability of applications

16:13:11 <satya> sort of - from RDF perspective they do not entail different "ontologies"

Satya Sahoo: sort of - from RDF perspective they do not entail different "ontologies"

16:13:51 <ivan> it would serve your effort greatly,

Ivan Herman: it would serve your effort greatly,

16:13:52 <ivan> if you would add to the standard clear specifications for the

Ivan Herman: if you would add to the standard clear specifications for the

16:13:52 <dgarijo> Ivan: I think it's going a bit beyond that and I don't think we want to do that

Ivan Herman: I think it's going a bit beyond that and I don't think we want to do that

16:13:53 <ivan> ontology subset and the interpretation to be applied to the

Ivan Herman: ontology subset and the interpretation to be applied to the

16:13:54 <ivan> respective terms for certain known use cases for rdf stores and

Ivan Herman: respective terms for certain known use cases for rdf stores and

16:13:55 <ivan> sparql services.

Ivan Herman: sparql services.

16:14:32 <dgarijo> ... defining subsets for various use cases. We should not do that, but we should have answered.

... defining subsets for various use cases. We should not do that, but we should have answered.

16:15:12 <dgarijo> ... We already had a categorization of the terms in prov-o. Not along the lines they propose, but along the lines of complexity.

... We already had a categorization of the terms in prov-o. Not along the lines they propose, but along the lines of complexity.

16:15:27 <dgarijo> ... They are very clearly defined subparts of prov-o and others.

... They are very clearly defined subparts of prov-o and others.

16:15:53 <dgarijo> ... so my answer would be that we already have sort of profiles, even though we don't call them that way

... so my answer would be that we already have sort of profiles, even though we don't call them that way

16:16:02 <GK> @ivan, where did your quote come from?

Graham Klyne: @ivan, where did your quote come from?

16:16:21 <dgarijo> ... the quote comes from the original mail

... the quote comes from the original mail

16:16:31 <dgarijo> (issue 610)

(ISSUE-610)

16:16:32 <satya> @Ivan, agree - rdf stores and sparql services are not "use cases" for creating prov-o profiles

Satya Sahoo: @Ivan, agree - rdf stores and sparql services are not "use cases" for creating prov-o profiles

16:16:53 <dgarijo> ... we have profiles, just not the ones he proposes.

... we have profiles, just not the ones he proposes.

16:17:29 <dgarijo> ... sparql services are not use cases, satya is right.

... sparql services are not use cases, satya is right.

16:17:42 <dgarijo> ...  we should add an apology, because we overlooked this.

... we should add an apology, because we overlooked this.

16:18:24 <dgarijo> Luc: the challenge is that there have been a discussion on whether this should be assigned.

Luc Moreau: the challenge is that there have been a discussion on whether this should be assigned.

16:18:51 <dgarijo> ivan: well, in reality is kind of a DM issue. PROV-O is just a serialization.

Ivan Herman: well, in reality is kind of a DM issue. PROV-O is just a serialization.

16:19:12 <dgarijo> Luc: we would need someone to spend a little of time so we can respond today to the reviewer.

Luc Moreau: we would need someone to spend a little of time so we can respond today to the reviewer.

16:19:24 <dgarijo> ... I can't do it before several hours.

... I can't do it before several hours.

16:19:56 <dgarijo> ... is there a volunteer who could draft a response shortly after the end of this call?

... is there a volunteer who could draft a response shortly after the end of this call?

16:20:10 <dgarijo> Ivan: I have another call right after this.

Ivan Herman: I have another call right after this.

16:20:23 <dgarijo> Luc: simon?

Luc Moreau: simon?

16:20:44 <dgarijo> smiles: I have a meeting after this one, but I can try to draft something

Simon Miles: I have a meeting after this one, but I can try to draft something

16:20:54 <dgarijo> ---too much echo ---

---too much echo ---

16:20:56 <TomDN> Zakim, who is noisy

Tom De Nies: Zakim, who is noisy

16:20:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is noisy', TomDN

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is noisy', TomDN

16:21:02 <TomDN> Zakim, who is noisy?

Tom De Nies: Zakim, who is noisy?

16:21:12 <Zakim> TomDN, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P26 (29%)

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P26 (29%)

16:21:47 <dgarijo> ivan: simon, if you look at the irc where everything is summarized.

Ivan Herman: simon, if you look at the irc where everything is summarized.

16:21:58 <dgarijo> smiles: I'll try to do this now.

Simon Miles: I'll try to do this now.

16:22:40 <dgarijo> Luc: In PROV we don't talk about profiles ---echo---

Luc Moreau: In PROV we don't talk about profiles ---echo---

16:23:13 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:23:17 <dgarijo> Luc: is that ok?

Luc Moreau: is that ok?

16:23:23 <dgarijo> smiles: I'll gove it a go.

Simon Miles: I'll gove it a go.

16:23:50 <dgarijo> Luc: ivan, did you submit a response to ?aena?

Luc Moreau: ivan, did you submit a response to ?aena?

16:24:14 <dgarijo> Luc: it needs to be done.

Luc Moreau: it needs to be done.

16:24:34 <Luc> topic: Timetable to Recommendations and Notes

3. Timetable to Recommendations and Notes

Summary: Ivan summarized the W3C process after publication of Proposed Recommendation. The end of the voting period for W3C membership is 9 April (4 weeks after publication of PR). We agreed to aim for a publication of recommendations on April 30th. Therefore *ALL* documents need to be staged in their final form by April 23rd. All editors are invited to produce a schedule of work, ensuring that documents are ready for internal reviews, reviewed, and finally revised by April 23rd.

<luc>Summary: Ivan summarized the W3C process after publication of Proposed Recommendation. The end of the voting period for W3C membership is 9 April (4 weeks after publication of PR).  We agreed to aim for a publication of recommendations on April 30th. Therefore *ALL* documents need to be staged in their final form by April 23rd. All editors are invited to produce a schedule of work, ensuring that documents are ready for internal reviews, reviewed, and finally revised by April 23rd.
16:25:00 <dgarijo> Luc: what is going to happen after the 12th?

Luc Moreau: what is going to happen after the 12th?

16:25:16 <dgarijo> ivan: the documents that are in a recommendation track are done.

Ivan Herman: the documents that are in a recommendation track are done.

16:25:35 <dgarijo> ... the documents are not under the control of the group

... the documents are not under the control of the group

16:25:56 <dgarijo> ... if you guys find spelling mistakes that can be adressed.

... if you guys find spelling mistakes that can be adressed.

16:26:23 <SamCoppens> zakim, mute me

Sam Coppens: zakim, mute me

16:26:23 <Zakim> SamCoppens should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: SamCoppens should now be muted

16:27:00 <dgarijo> ... if we have a company that doesn't vote, then it's not right.

... if we have a company that doesn't vote, then it's not right.

16:27:16 <dgarijo> ... if someone opposes then we have to go back, although it's not usual.

... if someone opposes then we have to go back, although it's not usual.

16:27:31 <dgarijo> ... there is a transition call, but that happens just if we have a problem

... there is a transition call, but that happens just if we have a problem

16:28:06 <dgarijo> ... we also have to finish the notes, but that is another issue.

... we also have to finish the notes, but that is another issue.

16:28:18 <dgarijo> Luc: what is the date for recommendations?

Luc Moreau: what is the date for recommendations?

16:28:33 <dgarijo> ivan: we had a date in the documents themselves.

Ivan Herman: we had a date in the documents themselves.

16:28:49 <dgarijo> Luc: the 9th of April

Luc Moreau: the 9th of April

16:29:52 <dgarijo> ivan: on the 9th the vote closes, on the 10th we check everything is fine, and we send the request to the editor for publication and then finding a date with the web master.

Ivan Herman: on the 9th the vote closes, on the 10th we check everything is fine, and we send the request to the editor for publication and then finding a date with the web master.

16:30:03 <dgarijo> ... the problem is that the 9th I'm in Beijing

... the problem is that the 9th I'm in Beijing

16:30:35 <dgarijo> ... The week of the first I'm at home, so we can prepare the mail that has to be sent to the director.

... The week of the first I'm at home, so we can prepare the mail that has to be sent to the director.

16:30:48 <dgarijo> ... otherwise we have to wait until the week of the 15th

... otherwise we have to wait until the week of the 15th

16:31:00 <dgarijo> Luc: week of the 15th I'm not available.

Luc Moreau: week of the 15th I'm not available.

16:31:29 <dgarijo> ... we can send the email 9th or 10th, that is not a problem.

... we can send the email 9th or 10th, that is not a problem.

16:32:08 <dgarijo> ivan: the question comes back to you. The email is easy. The question is what is the realistic publication date after the 9th?

Ivan Herman: the question comes back to you. The email is easy. The question is what is the realistic publication date after the 9th?

16:32:43 <dgarijo> ... i have the impression that it's going to be either the 25th or the 13th of the next month

... i have the impression that it's going to be either the 25th or the 30th of the next month

16:33:02 <dgarijo> Luc: then it would have to be staged on th 12th.

Luc Moreau: then it would have to be staged on th 12th.

16:33:18 <dgarijo> s/13th/30th
16:33:39 <dgarijo> ivan: we can leave it for the 30th.

Ivan Herman: we can leave it for the 30th.

16:33:56 <dgarijo> Luc: 23rd of April is when all documents must be staged

Luc Moreau: 23rd of April is when all documents must be staged

16:34:05 <GK> FWIW, I shall be away from mid-April until mid-May, with very intermittent Internet access

Graham Klyne: FWIW, I shall be away from mid-April until mid-May, with very intermittent Internet access

16:34:13 <dgarijo> ... 30th is the publication date.

... 30th is the publication date.

16:34:42 <dgarijo> ivan: Luc, please ping me the week when I'm in Beijing so we can deal with this.

Ivan Herman: Luc, please ping me the week when I'm in Beijing so we can deal with this.

16:35:50 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:35:58 <smiles> yes

Simon Miles: yes

16:35:58 <dgarijo> Luc: I'd like all editors to come up with that time table to produce the final version of their documents for internal review before the final vote and "camera ready version" of the 23

Luc Moreau: I'd like all editors to come up with that time table to produce the final version of their documents for internal review before the final vote and "camera ready version" of the 23

16:36:00 <dgarijo> yes

yes

16:36:27 <GK> (Works for me, as long as there aren't last-minute changes.)

Graham Klyne: (Works for me, as long as there aren't last-minute changes.)

16:37:10 <dgarijo> Luc: I will circulate a wikipage so you can circulate your proposed time tables

Luc Moreau: I will circulate a wikipage so you can circulate your proposed time tables

16:37:53 <dgarijo> Luc: Tom raised a number of issues in the tracker. Please start the discussion there and try to get resolution.

Luc Moreau: Tom raised a number of issues in the tracker. Please start the discussion there and try to get resolution.

16:37:54 <TomDN> that's the plan!

Tom De Nies: that's the plan!

16:37:54 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:38:04 <dgarijo> Luc: anything else?

Luc Moreau: anything else?

16:38:11 <Luc> topic: End of Provenance Working Group

4. End of Provenance Working Group

Summary: We then discussed the end of the Provenance Working Group. While it is recognized that the group can exist till the end of summer, once all our documents are published, there is very little left to do. Given that attendance and energy is reducing week by week, it is desirable to terminate the group activities shortly after publication of documents. Outstanding tasks to undertake include finishing the namespace, html pages, and provenance of documents (ideally, these should be complete at REC publication time), and also tidying the Wiki and FAQ.

<luc>Summary: We then discussed the end of the Provenance Working Group. While it is recognized that the group can exist till the end of summer, once all our documents are published, there is very little left to do. Given that attendance and energy is reducing week by week, it is desirable to terminate the group activities shortly after publication of documents. Outstanding tasks to undertake include finishing the namespace, html pages, and provenance of documents (ideally, these should be complete at REC publication time), and also tidying the Wiki and FAQ.
16:38:30 <dgarijo> Luc: When do we finish the activities of PROV?

Luc Moreau: When do we finish the activities of PROV?

16:39:11 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:39:12 <dgarijo> ... there are a number of activities that remain to be done before finishing the wg

... there are a number of activities that remain to be done before finishing the wg

16:39:31 <Curt> Can we move the FAQ to a place we can still edit after the working group formally ends?

Curt Tilmes: Can we move the FAQ to a place we can still edit after the working group formally ends?

16:39:36 <dgarijo> ivan: formally speaking the charter goes by end of summer. It's our choice

Ivan Herman: formally speaking the charter goes by end of summer. It's our choice

16:40:16 <dgarijo> ... only one thing: the namespace documents, it would be nice if those docs where finalized.

... only one thing: the namespace documents, it would be nice if those docs where finalized.

16:40:31 <GK> (+1 final NS with published docs)

Graham Klyne: (+1 final NS with published docs)

16:40:53 <dgarijo> ... the provenance metadata can be postponed. It's not a big deal. But the namespace docs should be finished.

... the provenance metadata can be postponed. It's not a big deal. But the namespace docs should be finished.

16:41:18 <dgarijo> Luc: Paul is also keen to have that done by the end of the group.

Luc Moreau: Paul is also keen to have that done by the end of the group.

16:41:32 <dgarijo> ... we should start to organize that from next week

... we should start to organize that from next week

16:41:52 <dgarijo> Ivan: when the group stops eventually the wikipages become read-onñy

Ivan Herman: when the group stops eventually the wikipages become read-only

16:42:07 <GK> I think the FAQ is likely to be an ongoing thing.  Maybe needs a new home?

Graham Klyne: I think the FAQ is likely to be an ongoing thing. Maybe needs a new home?

16:42:08 <dgarijo> s/onñy/only
16:42:19 <ivan> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV

Ivan Herman: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV

16:42:39 <dgarijo> ivan: that link^^ continued to be a living page

Ivan Herman: that link^^ continued to be a living page

16:42:53 <dgarijo> ... it should be mantained after the group is over

... it should be mantained after the group is over

16:43:14 <dgarijo> ... it would be nice if the implementations were added to the core wikipage

... it would be nice if the implementations were added to the core wikipage

16:43:15 <ivan> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Tools

Ivan Herman: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Tools

16:44:08 <dgarijo> ivan: in the previous link it would be good to add those tools part of the implementation. It's not related to the wg formally but it would be good if that was done at some point

Ivan Herman: in the previous link it would be good to add those tools part of the implementation. It's not related to the wg formally but it would be good if that was done at some point

16:44:59 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:45:09 <dgarijo> Luc: it seems to me that is pointless to keep the wg just for completing the provenance of docs an filling wiki pages, so I would recommend to finish the activities after we are done with the publication

Luc Moreau: it seems to me that is pointless to keep the wg just for completing the provenance of docs an filling wiki pages, so I would recommend to finish the activities after we are done with the publication

16:45:10 <GK> 4-6 weeks after publication seems reasonable

Graham Klyne: 4-6 weeks after publication seems reasonable

16:45:20 <jcheney> q+

James Cheney: q+

16:45:55 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:46:06 <dgarijo> ... the energy dedicated to the group is reduced every week, so it would be nice to end everything now.

... the energy dedicated to the group is reduced every week, so it would be nice to end everything now.

16:46:29 <dgarijo> jcheney: is there potential for an update of the notes after CR?

James Cheney: is there potential for an update of the notes after PR?

16:46:51 <ivan> s/CR/PR/
16:46:59 <smiles> OK, I've written a proposed response to the PROV-O issue:

Simon Miles: OK, I've written a proposed response to the PROV-O issue:

16:47:01 <smiles> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicCommentsCR#ISSUE-610_.28query_profiles_and_use_cases_not_normative.29

Simon Miles: ISSUE-610_.28query_profiles_and_use_cases_not_normative.29">http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicCommentsCR#ISSUE-610_.28query_profiles_and_use_cases_not_normative.29

16:47:35 <dgarijo> ivan: for semantics the final publication is when we publish the rec, not the pr

Ivan Herman: for semantics the final publication is when we publish the rec, not the pr

16:48:09 <dgarijo> ... formally for a note the group can issue as many reviews as the user considers necessary while the group exists.

... formally for a note the group can issue as many reviews as the user considers necessary while the group exists.

16:48:40 <dgarijo> ...but we have agreed to stop the activity shortly after publication, so this will not be the case.

...but we have agreed to stop the activity shortly after publication, so this will not be the case.

16:49:12 <dgarijo> jcheney: whaving a littte bit of time would be great, but I'm not going to be pushing this forward.

James Cheney: having a littte bit of time would be great, but I'm not going to be pushing this forward.

16:49:32 <dgarijo> s/whaving/having
16:49:52 <dgarijo> jcheney:  ok, now i know what is the deadline.

James Cheney: ok, now i know what is the deadline.

16:50:51 <dgarijo> ivan: simon's review is more important, lets' handle that

Ivan Herman: simon's review is more important, lets' handle that

16:50:54 <dgarijo> Luc: ok

Luc Moreau: ok

16:51:19 <GK> q+ to ask if its worth noting that we plan to create an FAQ

Graham Klyne: q+ to ask if its worth noting that we plan to create an FAQ

16:52:25 <satya> * sorry have to leave

Satya Sahoo: * sorry have to leave

16:52:28 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo

16:52:44 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:52:47 <dgarijo> ivan: I think the bullet point about extensions makes it more complicated. Let's just remove it.

Ivan Herman: I think the bullet point about extensions makes it more complicated. Let's just remove it.

16:52:50 <jcheney> q-

James Cheney: q-

16:52:50 <dgarijo> smiles: ok

Simon Miles: ok

16:53:09 <Luc> ack jch

Luc Moreau: ack jch

16:53:11 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:53:49 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:54:08 <dgarijo> GK: the response looks good (some comments about the third bullet, I could not log them)

Graham Klyne: the response looks good (some comments about the third bullet, I could not log them)

16:54:24 <Luc> proposed: take http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicCommentsCR#ISSUE-610_.28query_profiles_and_use_cases_not_normative.29 as the group response to issue 610

PROPOSED: take ISSUE-610_.28query_profiles_and_use_cases_not_normative.29">http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicCommentsCR#ISSUE-610_.28query_profiles_and_use_cases_not_normative.29 as the group response to ISSUE-610

16:54:36 <GK> My comment was to include reference to the FAQ for covering best practice related matters

Graham Klyne: My comment was to include reference to the FAQ for covering best practice related matters

16:54:46 <dgarijo> @GK: thx.

@GK: thx.

16:54:52 <TomDN> +1

Tom De Nies: +1

16:54:54 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:54:55 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

16:54:55 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

16:54:57 <dgarijo> Luc, ivan: looks good to me

Luc, ivan: looks good to me

16:54:58 <smiles> +1 :)

Simon Miles: +1 :)

16:54:59 <dgarijo> +1

+1

16:55:03 <GK> +1

Graham Klyne: +1

16:55:06 <hook> +1

Hook Hua: +1

16:55:10 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

16:55:15 <Luc> Accepted: take http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicCommentsCR#ISSUE-610_.28query_profiles_and_use_cases_not_normative.29 as the group response to issue 610

RESOLVED: take ISSUE-610_.28query_profiles_and_use_cases_not_normative.29">http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicCommentsCR#ISSUE-610_.28query_profiles_and_use_cases_not_normative.29 as the group response to ISSUE-610

16:55:18 <dgarijo> Luc: I'll send the email today.

Luc Moreau: I'll send the email today.

16:55:35 <Luc> Topic: PROV-AQ

5. PROV-AQ

Summary: As we were short of time before publication of the previous prov-aq WD, the chair was keen to give sufficient attention to this document, to ensure proper review before final publication. Graham made a few suggestions to progress. We agree to close all issues closed "pending reviews". All reviews, internal and external, will be responded to. Finally, Graham will, by email, put proposals forward, seeking group endorsement: if consensus cannot be reached by email, we will resolve them at the next teleconference. This should allow the document to be finalized before the final review.

<luc>Summary: As we were short of time before publication of the previous prov-aq WD, the chair was keen to give sufficient attention to this document, to ensure proper review before final publication. Graham made a few suggestions to progress. We agree to close all issues closed "pending reviews". All reviews, internal and external, will be responded to. Finally, Graham will, by email, put proposals forward, seeking group endorsement: if consensus cannot be reached by email, we will resolve them at the next teleconference.  This should allow the document to be finalized before the final review.
16:56:01 <gk1> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/5

Graham Klyne: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/5

16:56:40 <dgarijo> Luc: I'm keen to not repeat the review process for final publication. There are still a lot of outstanding issues. Paul proposed next steps. GK, what do you think?

Luc Moreau: I'm keen to not repeat the review process for final publication. There are still a lot of outstanding issues. Paul proposed next steps. GK, what do you think?

16:57:18 <dgarijo> GK: there were quite a lot of issues pending review since last year, so those are going to be closed (no objection).

Graham Klyne: there were quite a lot of issues pending review since last year, so those are going to be closed (no objection).

16:57:28 <pgroth> i was proposing another round of review

Paul Groth: i was proposing another round of review

16:58:07 <dgarijo> ... Unless there are any disagreements, we are in pretty good shape. I'm going to push the "open" issues. Also I have repsonses to the review comments.

... Unless there are any disagreements, we are in pretty good shape. I'm going to push the "open" issues. Also I have repsonses to the review comments.

16:58:40 <dgarijo> ... I'll try to reach agreement in the outstanding issues.

... I'll try to reach agreement in the outstanding issues.

16:59:19 <pgroth> @GK1 I'm still keen on having another round review

Paul Groth: @GK1 I'm still keen on having another round review

16:59:19 <dgarijo> Luc: to make progress I'd like to support your decission of closing the issues pending review. Is the group satisfied with this?

Luc Moreau: to make progress I'd like to support your decission of closing the issues pending review. Is the group satisfied with this?

16:59:27 <Luc> resolved: close issues marked "pending review" for prov-aq

RESOLVED: close issues marked "pending review" for prov-aq

17:00:06 <dgarijo> ... the second item, to look at the open issues and have reslutions on them. You plan to propose resolutions and vote, right?

... the second item, to look at the open issues and have reslutions on them. You plan to propose resolutions and vote, right?

17:00:21 <dgarijo> GK: the resolutions are there, I'll just ask the group.

Graham Klyne: the resolutions are there, I'll just ask the group.

17:00:26 <dgarijo> ... by mail.

... by mail.

17:01:17 <dgarijo> Luc: I'd suggest then that you put forward a proposal and ask if the group is supportive plus a vote (3 days). If there is no agreement then we can discuss it at the telecon

Luc Moreau: I'd suggest then that you put forward a proposal and ask if the group is supportive plus a vote (3 days). If there is no agreement then we can discuss it at the telecon

17:01:28 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

17:01:57 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

17:02:07 <Luc> ack gk

Luc Moreau: ack gk

17:02:07 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to ask if its worth noting that we plan to create an FAQ

Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to ask if its worth noting that we plan to create an FAQ

17:02:11 <dgarijo> GK: I'd like to have this done by the end of the month

Graham Klyne: I'd like to have this done by the end of the month

17:02:18 <GK> q-

Graham Klyne: q-



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