Publishing Working Group Telco — Minutes

Date: 2020-03-02

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log


Present: Dave Cramer, Ivan Herman, Lars Wallin, Gregorio Pellegrino, Cristina Mussinelli, Wendy Reid, Ben Schroeter, Tim Cole, Joshua Pyle, Bill Kasdorf, Garth Conboy, Deborah Kaplan, Tzviya Siegman

Regrets: Marisa DeMeglio, Ric Wright, Geoff Jukes


Chair: Wendy Reid

Scribe(s): Tim Cole


Ivan Herman: /topic Meeting Agenda 2020-03-02:

Wendy Reid:

1. minutes

Wendy Reid: Any comments?

Resolution #1: last minutes approved

2. Deep Linking in Audiobooks

Wendy Reid:

Wendy Reid: question raised by Lars
… we have not specified a method in the spec
… may need more than (or different than) Web annotations
… may be a v2 item, but let’s discuss

Dave Cramer: what do we mean by deep linking? different than regular linking?

Lars Wallin: What I meant was ability to link to a specific time offset in a specific resource in the reading order
… I can’t think of a specific way to link to a particular resource in a packaged resource
… may also be a problem even in unpackaged resources, e.g., creating bookmarks etc.
… I have suggestions
… as soon as user agent has read the manifest and deduced that it is an audio book, user agent should treat the book as a discrete resource and then use media fragments

Ivan Herman: See media fragments

Lars Wallin: e.g., use time-offset media fragments to the url of the book
… would then be up to the user agent
… a back up for unpackaged is where you specify entire url to a component within the book
… url should take file name and fragment and start from the root and make sure you end up in the proper place.

Ivan Herman: this makes sense, but still trying to understand the problem
… if you are talking about unpacked audio book, media fragments is already sufficient to point within any component of the book
… so I don’t think we don’t have a spec issue
… for packaged file, @Lars description sounds fine for the user agent
… the problem then becomes how do I as a user specify 22 seconds into the 2nd chapter of the packaged book

Dave Cramer: Lars, could you add details to the issue (what you said here)

Ivan Herman: +1 to dauwhe_

Lars Wallin: one small issue with linking to a file within an audio book - works for the web platform
… and for a user agent understanding the manifest, you’ll be okay
… but just send the url with fragment to a Web browser, you lose connection to the larger publication
… ends up being too loose
… possibly we could have a Web API that is effectively a more formal version of the toc, exposes the book as a something like a web site
… I will add to issue

Ivan Herman: some of these are issues that we have discussed and decided to defer
… haven’t really been able to find a solution
… there are for example security issues that we have not yet been able to resolve
… beyond this working group at this time (i.e., now in CR)

Garth Conboy: +1 to ivan’s comments.
… back in EPub land we had EPub CFI and it didn’t really get much uptake
… seems out of scope right now
… bookmarking to individual resources already there

Lars Wallin: Understand that the bigger issue is out of scope
… but as a reading system vendor, especially for packaged audio books, we need some way to ensure interoperability
… so we need some to specify a local locator within a packaged audio book sooner rather later
… perhaps we can add a comment that user agents should be able reference a point in timeline of book

Ivan Herman: 1) it would be a good thing to add a note, calling attention of implementers to media fragments and making clear that this can be addressed with relative addresses plus media fragments
… this would be an okay, non-normative change, so okay.
… 2) on more general problem, linking into content of a book, that’s something we may want to raise this issue very clearly for future work
… So Tzviya for example understands importance of being able to reference third word of second paragraph very important for scholarly publish
… so let’s put on agenda for CG

Lars Wallin: Working hard to implement existing annotation standards, but need more
… so will follow up with Wendy, and augment the issue

Ivan Herman: Lars++

Wendy Reid: this is of interest to CG and it’s a problem for not just audio books, but also most other book formats

3. scheduling changes

Lars Wallin: Yay :D

Wendy Reid: daylight savings time changes starting next week. If we leave at same time in US, it’ll be an hour earlier in Europe

Ivan Herman: yes, next call at 5 PM in Europe

Wendy Reid: will make sure to add reminder

Ivan Herman: Starting with meeting on 23rd, Europe is back to same time as today

4. Testing updates

Wendy Reid: Kobo is planning on implementing but won’t hit the March 30th deadline (at least not on the schedule we’re looking at)

Lars Wallin: Will finally start implementing tests - should start before London.

Ivan Herman: Lars++ (again!)

Lars Wallin: Should have test complete, public release around end of March / first of April
… need to speak more about how to add annotations
… would like to have in place before the summer

Wendy Reid: any other updates?

Lars Wallin: Convinced friends at Hinderburg, company that develops authoring tools overlays, etc., have now implemented support for packaged and not packaged books

Tzviya Siegman: May want to look at work of Apache Annotator, active recent (0.1 release just out)

Ivan Herman: Please try to send your updates in format we can add to our testing pages

Lars Wallin:

Ivan Herman: Possibly also Hindenburg could create similar report in same format

Lars Wallin: Will speak to them by London if not before
… will encourage them to become active in CG.

Tzviya Siegman: for all Apache Annotator 0.1 release:

Lars Wallin: Thanks Tzviya :)

Ivan Herman: The question for Kobo - when will they be in position to run the tests, even if they don’t have ready to deploy for public
… test report not required to report test results and provide feedback
… this would be helpful and would allow us to more easily move to next phase of recommendation process

Lars Wallin: What is deadline?

Wendy Reid: deadline for testing reports is March 30.

Ivan Herman: Really March 30 we say we will not go to next phase before then, but actually our later deadlines give us some flexibility
… could realistically go as late as 1 May

Wendy Reid: adjourn, will meet next week if enough to talk about - will send out agenda

Lars Wallin: 👋

5. Resolutions