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12:59:46 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
12:59:55 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
13:00:00 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
13:00:00 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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16:40:29 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:40:30 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
16:40:51 <ivan> Chair: wendy
16:40:52 <ivan> Date: 2020-03-02
16:40:52 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2020Feb/0012.html
16:40:53 <ivan> /topic Meeting Agenda 2020-03-02: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2020Feb/0012.html
16:40:55 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Working Group Telco
16:40:57 <ivan> Regrets+ marisa, rkwright
16:41:30 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2020-03-02: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2020Feb/0012.html
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16:58:33 <dauwhe> present+
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16:58:54 <ivan> present+
16:59:16 <ivan> present+ Lars
16:59:35 <Lars> Woop wopp 👋
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17:00:57 <gpellegrino> present+
17:01:47 <ivan> present+ cristina
17:02:04 <wendyreid> present+
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17:04:23 <ivan> present+ josh
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17:04:54 <wendyreid> scribe+ timCole
17:04:58 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2020/2020-02-03-pwg
17:05:04 <timCole> topic: minutes
17:05:15 <timCole> wendyreid: Any comments?
17:05:20 <ivan> resolved: last minutes approved
17:05:38 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/audiobooks/issues/76
17:05:40 <timCole> topic: Deep Linking in Audiobooks
17:05:59 <timCole> wendyreid: question raised by Lars
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17:06:07 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
17:06:09 <timCole> ... we have not specified a method in the spec
17:06:11 <dauwhe_> q+
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17:06:27 <timCole> ... may need more than (or different than) Web annotations
17:06:37 <timCole> ... may be a v2 item, but let's discuss
17:06:38 <wendyreid> dauwhe_:
17:06:40 <garth> present+ Garth
17:06:41 <wendyreid> ack dauwhe_
17:06:43 <josh> present+
17:06:46 <Lars> q+
17:06:51 <wendyreid> ack Lars
17:06:58 <timCole> dauwhe_: what do we mean by deep linking? different than regular linking?
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17:07:25 <timCole> Lars: What I meant was ability to link to a specific time offset in a specific resource in the reading order
17:07:32 <dkaplan3> present+
17:07:49 <ivan> q+
17:07:51 <timCole> ... I can't think of a specific way to link to a particular resource in a packaged resource
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17:08:09 <timCole> ... may also be a problem even in unpackaged resources, e.g., creating bookmarks etc.
17:08:11 <tzviya> present+
17:08:14 <timCole> ... I have suggestions
17:09:03 <timCole> ... as soon as user agent has read the manifest and deduced that it is an audio book, user agent should treat the book as a discrete resource and then use media fragments
17:09:31 <ivan> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/media-frags/ media fragments
17:09:32 <timCole> ... e.g., use time-offset media fragments to the url of the book
17:09:40 <timCole> ... would then be up to the user agent
17:10:24 <timCole> ... a back up for unpackaged is where you specify entire url to a component within the book
17:10:57 <timCole> ... url should take file name and fragment and start from the root and make sure you end up in the proper place.
17:10:59 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:11:01 <dauwhe_> q+
17:11:19 <timCole> ivan: this makes sense, but still trying to understand the problem
17:11:49 <timCole> ... if you are talking about unpacked audio book, media fragments is already sufficient to point within any component of the book
17:11:54 <Lars> q+
17:12:12 <timCole> ... so I don't think we don't have a spec issue
17:12:47 <timCole> ... for packaged file, @Lars description sounds fine for the user agent
17:13:20 <timCole> ... the problem then becomes how do I as a user specify 22 seconds into the 2nd chapter of the packaged book
17:13:25 <wendyreid> ack dauwhe_
17:13:52 <timCole> dauwhe_: Lars, could you add details to the issue (what you said here)
17:13:53 <ivan> +1 to dauwhe_
17:13:57 <wendyreid> ack Lars
17:15:00 <timCole> Lars: one small issue with linking to a file within an audio book - works for the web platform
17:15:20 <timCole> ... and for a user agent understanding the manifest, you'll be okay
17:15:41 <timCole> ... but just send the url with fragment to a Web browser, you lose connection to the larger publication
17:16:02 <ivan> q+
17:16:06 <timCole> ... ends up being too loose
17:16:49 <garth> q?
17:16:59 <timCole> ... possibly we could have a Web API that is effectively a more formal version of the toc, exposes the book as a something like a web site
17:17:04 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:17:07 <timCole> ... I will add to issue
17:17:23 <garth> q+
17:17:44 <timCole> ivan: some of these are issues that we have discussed and decided to defer
17:17:57 <timCole> ... haven't really been able to find a solution
17:18:11 <Lars> q+
17:18:26 <timCole> ... there are for example security issues that we have not yet been able to resolve
17:18:43 <timCole> ... beyond this working group at this time (i.e., now in CR)
17:18:45 <wendyreid> ack garth
17:18:55 <timCole> garth: +1 to ivan's comments.
17:19:24 <timCole> ... back in EPub land we had EPub CFI and it didn't really get much uptake
17:19:36 <timCole> ... seems out of scope right now
17:19:48 <wendyreid> ack Lars
17:19:55 <timCole> ... bookmarking to individual resources already there
17:20:12 <timCole> Lars: Understand that the bigger issue is out of scope
17:20:38 <timCole> ... but as a reading system vendor, especially for packaged audio books, we need some way to ensure interoperability
17:21:00 <timCole> ... so we need some to specify a local locator within a packaged audio book sooner rather later
17:21:18 <ivan> q+
17:21:37 <timCole> ... perhaps we can add a comment that user agents should be able reference a point in timeline of book
17:21:40 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:22:31 <timCole> ivan: 1) it would be a good thing to add a note, calling attention of implementers to media fragments and making clear that this can be addressed with relative addresses plus media fragments
17:22:46 <timCole> ... this would be an okay, non-normative change, so okay.
17:23:43 <timCole> ... on more general problem, linking into content of a book, that's something we may want to raise this issue very clearly for future work
17:24:19 <Lars> q+
17:24:37 <timCole> ... So Tzviya for example understands importance of being able to reference third word of second paragraph very important for scholarly publish
17:24:38 <wendyreid> ack lars
17:24:45 <timCole> ... so let's put on agenda for CG
17:25:15 <garth> q?
17:25:35 <timCole> Lars: Working hard to implement existing annotation standards, but need more
17:25:58 <timCole> ... so will follow up with Wendy, and augment the issue
17:25:58 <ivan> Lars++
17:26:41 <timCole> wendyreid: this is of interest to CG and it's a problem for not just audio books, but also most other book formats
17:26:50 <ivan> regrets+ geoff
17:27:00 <timCole> topic: scheduling changes
17:27:26 <Lars> Yay :D
17:27:53 <timCole> wendyreid: daylight savings time changes starting next week. If we leave at same time in US, it'll be an hour earlier in Europe
17:28:16 <timCole> ivan: yes, next call at 5 PM in Europe
17:28:29 <timCole> wendyreid: will make sure to add reminder
17:28:51 <timCole> ivan: Starting with meeting on 23rd, Europe is back to same time as today
17:28:58 <timCole> Topic: Testing updates
17:29:16 <Lars> q+
17:29:47 <wendyreid> wendyreid: Kobo is planning on implementing but won't hit the March 30th deadline (at least not on the schedule we're looking at)
17:29:50 <wendyreid> ack Lars
17:29:52 <timCole> Lars: Will finally start implementing tests - should start before London.
17:30:06 <ivan> lars++ (again!)
17:30:13 <timCole> ... Should have test complete, public release around end of March / first of April
17:30:28 <timCole> ... need to speak more about how to add annotations
17:30:36 <timCole> ... would like to have in place before the summer
17:30:42 <Lars> q+
17:30:45 <timCole> wendyreid: any other updates?
17:30:47 <wendyreid> ack Lars
17:31:22 <tzviya> q+
17:31:26 <ivan> q+
17:31:42 <wendyreid> ack tzviya
17:31:42 <timCole> Lars: Convinced friends at Hinderburg, company that devolps authoring tools overlays, etc., have now implemented support for packaged and not packaged books
17:31:57 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:32:13 <timCole> tzviya: May want to look at work of Apache Annotator, active recent (0.1 release just out)
17:32:48 <timCole> ivan: Please try to send your updates in format we can add to our testing pages
17:33:02 <Lars> https://hindenburg.com/products/sectors/audio-book-publishers
17:33:10 <timCole> ... Possibly also Hindenburg could create similar report in same format
17:33:24 <timCole> Lars: Will speak to them by London if not before
17:33:46 <timCole> ... will encourage them to become active in CG.
17:33:50 <tzviya> for all Apache Annotator 0.1 release https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/annotator/source/0.1.0/rc.1/
17:33:57 <timCole> wendyreid: any updates?
17:33:59 <ivan> q+
17:34:03 <Lars> Thanks Tzviya :)
17:34:05 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:34:32 <timCole> ivan: The question for cobo - when will they be in position to run the tests, even if they don't have ready to deploy for public
17:35:03 <timCole> ... test report not required to report test results and provide feedback
17:35:14 <Lars> q+
17:35:25 <timCole> ... this would be helpful and would allow us to more easily move to next phase of recommendation process
17:35:25 <wendyreid> ack Lars
17:35:34 <ivan> q+
17:35:38 <timCole> Lars: What is deadline?
17:35:54 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:35:58 <timCole> wendyreid: deadline for testing reports is March 30.
17:36:46 <timCole> ivan: Really March 30 we say we will not go to next phase before then, but actually our later deadlines give us some flexibility
17:36:58 <timCole> ... could realistically go as late as 1 May
17:37:49 <timCole> wendyreid: adjourn, will meet next week if enough to talk about - will send out agenda
17:38:08 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
17:38:08 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dauwhe, ivan, Lars, gpellegrino, cristina, wendyreid, BenSchroeter, timCole, josh, Bill_Kasdorf, Garth, dkaplan, tzviya
17:38:08 <Lars> 👋
17:38:11 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:38:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/02-pwg-minutes.html Zakim
17:38:13 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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17:39:13 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:39:13 <RRSAgent> I see no action items