Publishing Working Group Telco — Minutes

Date: 2019-01-14

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log


Present: Ivan Herman, Rachel Comerford, Wolfgang Schindler, Tzviya Siegman, Wendy Reid, Geoff Jukes, Gregorio Pellegrino, Luc Audrain, Simon Collinson, Evan Owens, Nick Ruffilo, Caroline Hayes, Romain Deltour, Jeff Buehler, Dave Cramer, Laurent Le Meur, Deborah Kaplan, Avneesh Singh, Ric Wright, Bill Kasdorf, Benjamin Young, Mateus Teixeira, David Stroup, Ben Schroeter, Charles LaPierre, Matt Garrish, Teenya Franklin, Marisa DeMeglio, Joshua Pyle, Lillian Sullam, Brady Duga, Garth Conboy, Zheng Xu (Jeff)

Regrets: Tim Cole, George Kerscher


Chair: Tzviya Siegman

Scribe(s): Wolfgang Schindler


1. Approve minutes

Tzviya Siegman:

Resolution #1: last week’s minutes approved

2. Remembering Robin Seaman

Tzviya Siegman:

Ben Schroeter: +1

Tzviya Siegman: last week Robin Seaman from Benetech passed away - amazing person - we will miss her tremendously - changed the world by her devotion to accessible publishing

Bill Kasdorf: She put her heart and soul to a11y guide; her name will be associated with it.

Ben Schroeter: +1

Charles LaPierre: Thanks everyone, yes we will

3. Scope and Revision of WP Document

Franco Alvarado: franco present+

Tzviya Siegman:

Tzviya Siegman: slimming down WP spec - shifting affordances to UCR doc - focus on metadata - then focus on modules
… first module Audiopubs, then it might be mangas/comic books, scholar, education
… details will go to modules

Ivan Herman:

Ivan Herman: I have written down my thoughts - see link above!
… only 1 year left according to charter - we don’t have too much time - we will have to establish a focus from now on - we had a hard core (the WP Manifest)
… open issues are minor - the core sense of spec is to collect the metadata
… we potentially have a number of profiles as specialized layers on top - may describe specific behaviors for special domains - audiobooks may be a first profile
… profiles are WPs that may be deployed on the Web - deployment in browsers may require specialized scripts -
… packaging should be generally useful for all profiles
… current WP doc: title should be changed - remove affordances sections to UCR
… we should revisit affordances and use cases doc - should it perhaps be a note? - separation of use cases and affordances?
… separate spec for audio profile - should have a draft very soon
… have a document for the packaging format we use now - need a decision on that
… REC track for WP manifest and Audio profile
… for a longer term - charter runs out in June 2021 - shall we continue? - we would then need a new charter - further topics for profiles: visual narrative, scholarly/educational, music, …
… web packaging - follow the further development
… not discuss now whether it continues EPUB line or replaces EPUB
… we have to decide on the scope for the presentation to the TAG

Tzviya Siegman: Ivan’s overview is excellent, but immediate focus on explainer doc and wp doc - we need to clean things up, to get them aligned
… feedback on explainer @dauwhe?

Dave Cramer: explainer as critical document, esp. for TAG review - not sure that inconsistencies between explainer and WP draft matter too much for TAG review

Tzviya Siegman: if we try to coordinate too many things, it may get confusing. Affordances/use case document should be cleaned up and be separate from wp spec.

Ivan Herman: whether draft should be synchronized with explainer? would prefer to synchronize these 2 docs
… explainer doesn’t really say where we are going - what are our goals? -

Tzviya Siegman: adding a section on goals to explainer - I offer to write the goals up

Dave Cramer: also ready to help in this effort
… we have got real trouble with affordances - there are so many different kind of publications which aren’t all on the Web - focusing on the core bits of metadata could be very valuable for us - I would like to use that data model to describe EPUB

Bill Kasdorf: +1 to dauwhe

Geoff Jukes: +1 dauwhe

Dave Cramer: I would suggest that we would have varying vocabulary for different domains - maybe also different packaging formats for diverse needs
… core data model that may be serialized and packaged in different ways

Dave Cramer:

Avneesh Singh: conceptually, this makes sense - delimit the scope because time is restricted - we have gone little beyond the core - what are we restricting, do we stretch to sth else?

Ivan Herman: so far we only thought of moving the affordances section
… some types of contributors that are only relevant for audiobooks - most of the statements may stay where they are
… On the data model: I’m scared to go down the line Dave proposed - seeing the time, it would be dangerous to revisit the data model
… one important message: data model based on existing standards ( - don’t see necessity of revising our data model - would be an enormous amount of work

Dave Cramer: concerned to use deadlines and time as basis for design choices

Ivan Herman: we decided in Lyon to take out the abstract info model in favor of JSON-LD

Dave Cramer: Blackstone use case - an HTML serialization is much more complicated than needed - can we explain EPUB as an aspect of our larger work on publications

Tzviya Siegman: Dave’s 2 points are pretty meaningful - it integrates EPUB - scary to state that EPUB is totally different from WP - it’s very valuable to work with, but we should not rule out other possibilities

Laurent Le Meur: too late to revise data model now - Blackstone: where HTML entry page is not used being too heavy - sufficient to state that HTML entry page is optional -
… we must move on and finalize what we are working until now

Ivan Herman: a lot of groups in a similar situation did: publish a note with the abstract model (in sync with the JSON-LD serialization)
… JSON-LD WG will work on a version serializing YAML in JSON-LD - not started yet

Tzviya Siegman: we decided to simplify at TPAC by what’s wrong with an abstract data model?

Ivan Herman: we defined an abstract model and serialized it in JSON-LD - documenting the data model independently from the syntax used for serialization would be OK

Dave Cramer: we should describe the components to build different kinds of publications - moving affordances out from spec is a good first step - I would be more radical

Laurent Le Meur: very different affordances also dependent on UA - provides a model and different serializations - we chose JSON-LD - how would be describe the data model - UML? waste of time

Benjamin Young:

Benjamin Young: publication is a linear progression of these items - web annotation data model included a brief explanation how we modeled this - trivial and small, but essential to understanding the following

Dave Cramer: map our terms to other vocabularies - “readingOrder” = “spine” in EPUB

Ivan Herman: my proposal: we make a separate document/note on the data model

Tzviya Siegman: scope is to refine the WP doc - strip out affordances, refine manifest
… more volunteers on affordances needed
… WP doc should only define Manifest and metadata
… audiopubs as stand-alone module

Wendy Reid: +1 to both

Garth Conboy: +1

Tzviya Siegman: +1

Bill Kasdorf: Will all future modules have REC status and won’t contradict each other?
… will they be consistent?

Wendy Reid: there should be communication with the PWG and all use the manifest

Avneesh Singh: if only one module the core spec may be skewed to fit that single module - we should have more than on module in parallel

Wendy Reid: +1

Ivan Herman: +1 to Avneesh - it make sense to have a further module, but not yet on a rec-track basis

Dave Cramer: demanding an EPUB module

Luc Audrain: EPUB 4?

Wendy Reid: more than one module makes it easier to distinguish core and module

Tzviya Siegman: Dave and I will revise explainer, we need to revise UCR, Matt will concentrate on spec

4. Resolutions