Publishing Working Group Telco — Minutes

– DRAFT Minutes –

Date: 2017-11-27

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log

Attendees

Present: Baldur Bjarnason, Matt Garrish, Tzviya Siegman, Ivan Herman, George Kerscher, Wolfgang Schindler, Avneesh Singh, Peter Krautzberger, Deborah Kaplan, Luc Audrain, Toshiaki Koike, Dave Cramer, Evan Yamanishi, Nick Ruffilo, Mateus Teixeira, Harriett Green, Jun Gamou, Chris Maden, Rachel Comerford, Benjamin Young, Zheng Xu, Romain Deltour, Tim Cole, Lillian Sullam, Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Joshua Pyle, Laurent Le Meur, Ben Schroeter, Marisa DeMeglio, Bill Kasdorf, Garth Conboy, Hadrien Gardeur, Charles LaPierre, Brady Duga

Regrets: Leonard Rosenthol

Guests:

Chair: Garth Conboy

Scribe(s): Wolfgang Schindler

Content:

Tzviya Siegman: https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2017/2017-11-20-minutes

Resolution #1: Meeting minutes accepted

Tzviya Siegman: minutes approved!

1. PWP discussion

Ivan Herman: some discussions with Dave (at TPAC and later)
… 2 main sections: (1) features that are package-format independent
… either infoitems that are PWP-specific or additional reqs on extant infoitems from WP
… (2) packaging format
… cutting into two sections allows for variation in packaging format

Ivan Herman: packaging part show the options
… many open issues with Web Packaging Format
… FPWD may leave these issues open
… infoitems specific to PWP not really discussed in this group
… Hadrien started this discussion

Tzviya Siegman: https://github.com/w3c/pwpub/pull/13

Ivan Herman: PR from Dave which already has this sectioning
… could we merge that?
… scheduling: maybe vote on locator and WP as FPWD? if yes, could be published before Christmas
… accept a little bit of shift
… publication in first week of January after moratorium

Garth Conboy: have folks seen PR 13?
… could we merge it?

Tzviya Siegman: +1

Ivan Herman: +1

Mateus Teixeira: +1

Benjamin Young: +1

Deborah Kaplan: +1

Peter Krautzberger: +1

Resolution #2: Merge PR 13 (ivan would do it after the call)

Ivan Herman: list of packaging options in PR

Garth Conboy: not exclusive list, other options possible

Tzviya Siegman: issues list https://github.com/w3c/pwpub/issues

Ivan Herman: definition of PWP is an open issue, at the moment only a placeholder

Tzviya Siegman: distinct repo for PWP - watch it!

Garth Conboy: ppl should look at that issue list - quite a number of comments

Garth Conboy: discuss issues on PWP now or continue with other topics?

Ivan Herman: we should try for now not to go too much into the details
… we don’t have to agree on anything - intermediate results would be welcome

Tzviya Siegman: trying to publish and come back to details later

Garth Conboy: anything else on PWP draft

2. Locators

Tim Cole: https://w3c.github.io/publ-loc/

Tim Cole: current locator spec draft
… pretty good shape for FPWD
… 3 new selectors
… a new kind of specifier proposition

Tim Cole: https://github.com/w3c/publ-loc/issues/6

Tim Cole: resolve issue of quantified? identifiers
… media fragments never taken up by browsers

Tim Cole: https://github.com/w3c/publ-loc/pull/35

Tim Cole: should we keep fragment identifier debate in FPWD
… could define fragment identifier scheme for PWP
… maybe it’s too much?
… what the community interest in fragment identifiers is?

Tzviya Siegman: preliminary to make decision about media type

Tim Cole: don’t want to delete p on fragment identifiers totally
… perhaps keep a copy and decide this issue later

Ivan Herman: only problem with fragment identifiers - incredibly complicated
… encode JSON to make it valid URLs - practically not usable
… clear and clean is to have a fragment identifier on WP as a whole to identify one resource
… either remove all or keep only that one.

Hadrien Gardeur: not our role to mint media fragments
… gap on the web for referencing text
… missing on the web

Ivan Herman: strange doc - about 70% already a Rec
… part of Annotation Rec, we only added 3 selectors that are WP-specific

Tim Cole: the web is moving to a non-fragment identifier approach
… user agents should make more use of JSON
… here we try to use JSON descriptions
… fragment identifier as throwback to earlier approaches

Rachel Comerford: fragment issue really important for educational publishing
… can’t accept to miss it entirely

Tim Cole: different way than trad. html identifiers needed?

Rachel Comerford: CFI standard used

Tim Cole: app can use JSON to define start/end of fragment

Tim Cole: what you append to url to get to the right spot = fragment identifier

Benjamin Young: UA should understand JSON and bring you to this spot. Locator spec not yet implemented
… UA should be able to consume JSON to locate a portion of the doc
… fragment identifiers are important for locating a portion of the doc

Garth Conboy: is that an argument against the proposal?

Garth Conboy: https://github.com/w3c/publ-loc/issues/6#issuecomment-343489220

Benjamin Young: we need a new fragment identifier not specific to a certain media type

Tim Cole: open issue suggesting we may need to add some of what Benjamin is talking about https://github.com/w3c/publ-loc/issues/27

Benjamin Young: making the UA go to a place for the reader

Ivan Herman: CFI is only a declarative way of defining patterns, doesn’t say what UA should do
… fragment identification doesn’t describe UA behaviour
… going back to rachel + hadrien’s comments
… unified view that lists fragment identifier approaches
… most is already a spec

Garth Conboy: https://github.com/w3c/publ-loc/issues/6#issuecomment-343489220

Benjamin Young: +1 to focusing the document on just the new stuff

Ivan Herman: we only add WP-specific things

Rachel Comerford: +1

Dave Cramer: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/browsing-the-web.html#scroll-to-fragid (as an example for the description on what a UA does with a fragment ID)

Ivan Herman: +1

Mateus Teixeira: +1

Benjamin Young: +1

Tzviya Siegman: +1

Tim Cole: +1

Resolution #3: close this PR and create a new one based on consensus (the only fragid is for ERS). 10 issues open to be addressed after FPWD

Tim Cole: 10 issues open to be addressed after FPWD

Luc Audrain: +1

3. security

Baldur Bjarnason: comparing security-related issues in specs

4. entry page

Ivan Herman: we have reached some sort of a conclusion we can all live with
… I think we can close this issue for FPWD

Tzviya Siegman: https://github.com/w3c/wpub/issues/108

Tzviya Siegman: https://github.com/w3c/wpub/issues/103

dave: process question? desire to have issues closed before FPWD

Ivan Herman: not close issues in github, only suspend them for the time being

Luc Audrain: FPWD is it public?

Ivan Herman: yes

5. AOB

Tzviya Siegman: holidays schedule
… 18th of December?

Ivan Herman: formal vote on 11th of December

Luc Audrain: I’ll miss the call on 18th

Tzviya Siegman: weekly meeting of chairs+ivan will decide on the schedule

Ivan Herman: @matt readiness to publish?

matt: privacy and security missing but otherwise OK

6. Resolutions