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16:34:39 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
16:34:39 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Working Group Telco
16:34:39 <ivan> Chair: Garth
16:34:39 <ivan> Date: 2017-11-27
16:34:39 <ivan> Regrets+ leonardr
16:34:39 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2017Nov/0034.html
16:34:39 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2017-11-27: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2017Nov/0034.html
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16:56:18 <tzviya> present+
16:56:36 <ivan> present+
16:56:36 <ivan> present+ George
16:56:46 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
16:56:51 <Avneesh> present+
16:57:10 <pkra> present+
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16:58:26 <George> present+ George
16:58:31 <laudrain> Present+ Luc
16:58:34 <toshiakikoike> present+
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16:59:22 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
16:59:22 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose wolfgang
16:59:35 <ivan> scribenick: wolfgang
16:59:41 <wolfgang> scribenick: wolfgang
16:59:52 <ivan> present+ dauwhe
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16:59:55 <evan> present+
17:00:00 <NickRuffilo> scribenick: nickruffilo
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17:00:53 <mateus> present+
17:00:58 <ivan> scribenick: wolfgang
17:00:59 <harriett> present+
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17:01:18 <cmaden2> present+ Chris_Maden
17:01:18 <rachel_> present+
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17:02:18 <pkra> you could read all of twitter last week...
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17:02:24 <rdeltour> present+
17:02:36 <timCole> present+ Tim_Cole
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17:03:14 <lsullam> present+
17:03:19 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2017/2017-11-20-minutes
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17:03:28 <josh> present+
17:03:32 <ivan> RESOLVED: Meeting minutes accepted
17:03:35 <wolfgang> tzviya: minutes approved!
17:03:37 <zheng_xu> resent+
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17:03:47 <liisamk> present +
17:03:49 <ivan> Topic: PWP dicussion
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17:03:58 <ivan> present+ zheng_xu
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17:04:03 <marisa> present+
17:04:04 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
17:04:06 <laurentlemeur> present+
17:04:30 <NickRuffilo> present+
17:04:35 <BenSchroeter> present+
17:04:36 <wolfgang> ivan: some discussions with Dave (at TPAC and later)
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17:05:00 <garth> present+ Garth
17:05:00 <wolfgang> 2 main sections: (1) features that are package-format independent
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17:05:44 <wolfgang> either infoitems that are PWP-specific or additional reqs on extant infoitems from WP
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17:05:56 <Hadrien> present+
17:06:00 <wolfgang> (2) packaging format
17:06:33 <wolfgang> cutting into two sections allows for variation in packing format
17:06:49 <wolfgang> s/packing/packaging/
17:07:01 <clapierre> present+
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17:07:39 <wolfgang> ivan: packaging part show the options
17:07:54 <wolfgang> ... many open issues with Web Packaging Format
17:08:20 <wolfgang> ... FPWD may leave these issues open
17:08:49 <wolfgang> ... infoitems specific to PWP not really discussed in this group
17:09:03 <wolfgang> ...Hadrien started this discussion
17:09:20 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/pwpub/pull/13
17:09:23 <garth> q?
17:09:23 <wolfgang> ... PR from Dave which already has this sectioning
17:09:45 <wolfgang> ivan: could we merge that?
17:10:43 <wolfgang> ... scheduling: maybe vote on locator and WP as FPWD? if yes, could be published before Christmas
17:11:15 <wolfgang> ... accept a little bit of shift
17:11:44 <wolfgang> publication in first week of January after moratorium
17:12:18 <wolfgang> garth: have folks seen PR 13?
17:12:35 <garth> q?
17:12:46 <wolfgang> ... could we merge it?
17:12:49 <tzviya> +1
17:12:53 <ivan> +1
17:12:53 <mateus> +1
17:12:54 <bigbluehat> +1
17:12:58 <garth> q?
17:13:02 <dkaplan3> +1
17:13:26 <wolfgang> garth: merge PR 13 (ivan would do it after the call)
17:13:39 <pkra> +1
17:13:56 <wolfgang> ivan: list of packaging options in PR
17:14:31 <wolfgang> garth: not exclusive list, other options possible
17:14:58 <tzviya> issues list https://github.com/w3c/pwpub/issues
17:15:15 <wolfgang> ivan: definition of PWP is an open issue, at the moment only a placeholder
17:15:40 <wolfgang> tzviya: distinct repo for PWP - watch it!
17:16:39 <wolfgang> garth: ppl should look at that issue list - quite a number of comments
17:17:20 <ivan> q+
17:17:34 <wolfgang> garth: discuss issues on PWP now or continue with other topics?
17:17:36 <garth> q?
17:17:39 <garth> ack ivan
17:18:10 <wolfgang> ivan: we should try fro now not to go too much into the details
17:18:31 <tzviya> s/try fro/try for
17:18:51 <wolfgang> ... we don't have to agree on anything - intermediate results would be welcome
17:19:17 <wolfgang> tzviya: trying to publish and come back to details later
17:19:18 <garth> q?
17:19:29 <ivan> Topic: Locators
17:19:30 <wolfgang> garth: anything else on PWP draft
17:19:38 <timCole> https://w3c.github.io/publ-loc/
17:19:51 <wolfgang> tim: current locator spec draft
17:20:09 <wolfgang> ... pretty good shape for FPWD
17:20:20 <wolfgang> ... 3 new selectors
17:20:47 <wolfgang> ... a new kind of specifier proposition
17:21:09 <timCole> https://github.com/w3c/publ-loc/issues/6
17:21:23 <wolfgang> ... resolve issue of quantified? identifiers
17:22:02 <wolfgang> ... media fragments never taken up by browsers
17:22:26 <timCole> https://github.com/w3c/publ-loc/pull/35
17:22:46 <wolfgang> ... should we keep fragment identifier debate in FPWD
17:23:14 <wolfgang> ... could define fragment identfier scheme for PWP
17:23:24 <wolfgang> ... maybe it's too much?
17:23:28 <garth> q?
17:23:48 <tzviya> q+
17:23:54 <wolfgang> ... what the community interest in fragment identfiers is?
17:24:02 <ivan> q+
17:24:13 <garth> q?
17:24:17 <garth> ack tzviya
17:24:26 <dauwhe> q+
17:24:40 <wolfgang> tzviya: preliminary to make decision about mediatype
17:25:09 <wolfgang> tim: don't want to delete p on fragment identifiers totally
17:25:40 <dauwhe> q-
17:25:56 <wolfgang> ... perhaps keep a copy and decide this issue later
17:26:22 <Hadrien> q+
17:26:32 <wolfgang> ivan: only problem with fragment identifiers - incredibly complicated
17:27:02 <wolfgang> ... encode JSON to make it valid URLs - practically not usable
17:27:38 <wolfgang> ... clear and clean is to have a fragment identifier on WP as a whole to identify one resource
17:27:59 <wolfgang> ... either remove all or keep only that one.
17:28:27 <garth> q?
17:28:34 <tzviya> ack iv
17:28:37 <ivan> ack ivan
17:28:39 <garth> ack Hadrien
17:28:41 <tzviya> ack Hadrien
17:28:43 <baldurbjarnason> present+
17:28:55 <wolfgang> hadrien: not our role to mend media fragments
17:29:05 <wolfgang> ... gap on the web for referencing text
17:29:14 <garth> s/mend/mint/
17:29:16 <ivan> q+
17:29:28 <wolfgang> ... missing on the web
17:29:31 <garth> q?
17:29:37 <garth> ack ivan
17:29:41 <timCole> q+
17:29:55 <wolfgang> ivan: strange doc - about 70% already a rec
17:30:23 <wolfgang> ... part of annotation rec, we only added 3 selectors that are WP-specific
17:30:33 <garth> ack timCole
17:31:12 <wolfgang> tim: the web is moving to a non-fragment identifier approach
17:31:44 <wolfgang> ... user agents should make more use of JSON
17:32:16 <wolfgang> ... here we try to use JSON descriptions
17:32:23 <garth> q?
17:32:28 <rachel_> q+
17:32:36 <wolfgang> ... fragment identifier as throwback to earlier proposals
17:32:37 <ivan> q?
17:32:53 <wolfgang> s/proposals/approaches/
17:33:11 <bigbluehat> q+
17:33:30 <bigbluehat> q-
17:33:37 <garth> q?
17:33:40 <ivan> ack rachel_
17:33:44 <garth> ack rachel_
17:34:31 <wolfgang> rachel: fragment issue really important for educational publishing
17:34:33 <bigbluehat> q+
17:34:38 <ivan> q+
17:34:50 <wolfgang> ... can't accept to miss it entirely
17:35:16 <wolfgang> tim: different way than trad. html identifiers needed?
17:35:37 <wolfgang> rachel: CFI standard used
17:36:31 <wolfgang> tim: app can use JSON to define start/end of fragment
17:36:40 <garth> q?
17:37:07 <wolfgang> tim: what you append to url to get to the right spot = fragment identifier
17:37:09 <garth> ack bigbluehat
17:38:18 <wolfgang> bluehat: UA should understand JSON and bring you to this spot. Locator spec not yet implemented
17:38:59 <wolfgang> ... UA should be able to consume JSON to locate a portion of the doc
17:39:38 <wolfgang> ... fragment identifiers are important for locating a portion of the doc
17:40:04 <wolfgang> garth: is that an argument against the proposal?
17:40:23 <garth> https://github.com/w3c/publ-loc/issues/6#issuecomment-343489220
17:40:52 <wolfgang> bluehat: we need a new fragment identifier not specific to a certain mediatype
17:40:59 <garth> q?
17:41:08 <timCole> open issue suggesting we may need to add some of what Benjamin is talking about https://github.com/w3c/publ-loc/issues/27
17:41:45 <wolfgang> ... making the UA go to a place for the reader
17:41:51 <garth> q?
17:41:57 <garth> ack ivan
17:42:12 <bigbluehat> q+
17:42:54 <wolfgang> ivan: CFI is only a declarative way of defining patterns, doesn't say what UA should do
17:43:18 <wolfgang> ... fragment identification doesn't describe UA behaviour
17:43:36 <wolfgang> ... going back to rachel + hadrien's comments
17:44:11 <wolfgang> ... unified view that lists fragment identfier approaches
17:44:23 <garth> q?
17:44:28 <wolfgang> ... most is already a spec
17:44:30 <bigbluehat> q-
17:44:45 <garth> https://github.com/w3c/publ-loc/issues/6#issuecomment-343489220
17:44:48 <bigbluehat> +1 to focusing the document on just the new stuff
17:44:55 <wolfgang> ... we only add WP-specific things
17:44:59 <rachel_> +1
17:45:08 <dauwhe> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/browsing-the-web.html#scroll-to-fragid
17:45:10 <ivan> +1
17:45:33 <mateus> +1
17:45:45 <bigbluehat> +1
17:45:51 <tzviya> +1
17:45:55 <timCole> +1
17:46:48 <wolfgang> tim: closes his PR and creates a new one based on consensus - 10 issues open to be addressed after FPWD
17:47:13 <garth> q?
17:47:57 <garth> q?
17:48:06 <baldurbjarnason> q+
17:48:21 <laudrain> +1
17:48:30 <garth> ack baldurbjarnason
17:48:38 <ivan> Topic: security
17:48:52 <wolfgang> baldur: comparing security-related issues in specs
17:49:08 <ivan> Topic: entry page
17:49:09 <ivan> q+
17:49:24 <garth> ack ivan
17:49:45 <wolfgang> ivan: we have reached some sort of a conclusion we can all live with
17:49:47 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/wpub/issues/108
17:50:05 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/wpub/issues/103
17:50:07 <wolfgang> ... thinks we can close this issue for FPWD
17:50:47 <dauwhe> q+
17:51:11 <garth> ack dauwhe
17:51:26 <laudrain> q+
17:51:37 <wolfgang> dave: process question? desire to have issues closed before FPWD
17:52:04 <wolfgang> ivan: not close issues in github, only suspend them for the time being
17:52:11 <tzviya> ack laudrain
17:52:11 <garth> ack laudrain
17:52:28 <wolfgang> luc: FPWD is it public?
17:52:37 <garth> q?
17:52:40 <wolfgang> ivan: yes
17:52:43 <garth> q?
17:52:51 <ivan> topic: aob
17:53:11 <wolfgang> tzviya: holidays schedule
17:53:37 <wolfgang> ... 18th of December?
17:53:53 <garth> q?
17:54:22 <wolfgang> ivan: formal vote on 11th of December
17:54:40 <laudrain> I’ll miss the call on 18th
17:54:50 <wolfgang> tzviya: weekly meeting of chairs+ivan will decide on the schedule
17:55:20 <wolfgang> ivan: @matt readiness to publish?
17:55:41 <garth> q?
17:55:45 <wolfgang> matt: privacy and security missing but otherwise OK
17:56:12 <pkra> thanks.
17:56:27 <mateus> Thanks!
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17:57:08 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:57:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/27-pwg-minutes.html ivan
17:57:12 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:57:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/27-pwg-minutes.html ivan
17:57:12 <ivan> zakim, bye
17:57:12 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:57:12 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
17:57:12 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been tzviya, ivan, George, wolfgang, Avneesh, pkra, dkaplan, Luc, toshiakikoike, dauwhe, evan, mateus, harriett, Chris_Maden, rachel_,
17:57:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwg
17:57:15 <Zakim> ... mattg, bigbluehat, JunGamo, rdeltour, Tim_Cole, lsullam, josh, zheng_xu, marisa, Bill_Kasdorf, laurentlemeur, NickRuffilo, BenSchroeter, Garth, Hadrien, clapierre, duga,
17:57:15 <Zakim> ... baldurbjarnason