Minutes Telecon 2014-12-03
- There were a few people that felt that having a psuedo-class apply to the label if it applies to its labeled control would add useful functionality, but several people weren’t convinced that there were real-world use cases. Therefore, Florian will come up with use cases attempting to create this behavior and anyone else is welcome to also add cases.
- These CSS3-UI issues/topics were decided:
- It was felt that implementors that don’t implement
invert shouldn’t parse invert.
- Resolved: Update the spec to make it more clear what optional means in the current spec (Issue 42)
- Resolved: Authors must not hide outlines on focused elements unless they provide an alternate highlight mechanism for focused elements (Issue 43)
- Resolved: UAs may support
image in addition to uri and refer to image production as part of the text. (Issue 44)
- Resolved: Clamp cursor coordinates individually when invalid. (Issue 46)
- Resolved: Do not address this issue (Issue #49, ability to show a tooltip with full text when a line is ellipsed) in CSS3-UI
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2014-11-16
- Everyone should review Transforms in order to be able to vote on publishing a new working draft next week.
- Microsoft is going to test out the changes it would like to see so fixed position creates a new stacking context. If it works well, it will be brought back to the group and likely written into the spec.
- Resolved: extend
:matches() to pseudo-elements
- Resolved: The specificity of a
:matches() inside a :not() is the specificity of the most specific
- Resolved: reuse the hook from
:active on :focus
- Resolved: define a new
:focus-within that matches on the same things as :focus, plus parents, including if there are Shadow DOMs
- Resolved: both
:hover and :active should propagate from the labeled control to the label, in addition to the other direction.
- For
text-overflow, the conversation about handling items where, due to other properties, the text can’t overflow ended up being too complex for the time on the telecon and will go back to the mailing list.
- Resolved: Drop the text that says: “The resize property applies to elements whose computed overflow value is something other than visible. If overflow is different in a particular axis (i.e. overflow-x vs. overflow-y), then this property applies to the dimension(s) which do not have the value visible.” from CSS3-UI
- For outline offset, everyone agreed that there needed to be constraints on how far in the negative direction values can go, but there were several different options as to how the should be written. Options included:
- Setting 0 as the minimum.
- Set a floor as soon as any two lines of the shape touch each other.
- Changing the outline of the shape itself and making it shrink.
- Florian will try and write up a clear and relatively simple proposal for the mailing list.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2014-11-19
- Resolved: Accept fantasai’s proposal for
flex-basis: auto changes (auto means main-size and add a keyword for automatic sizing)
- It was quickly agreed that the text for explaining
urange (available here) could move to the Fonts spec. There was disagreement between jdaggett and TabAtkins as to if this additional normative text was necessary for the spec, however, implementers stated that they did want the text available to them. A compromise was reached where it would be in an appendix so that regular authors wouldn’t normally encounter it.
- Resolved: Move the
urange definition to an appendix in the Fonts spec.
- Resolved: Drop pseudo classes from CSS3-UI in favor of Selectors 4
- Resolved: For clarity, all future pseudo-classes should be in a Selectors module
- Resolved: Drop XFORMS related pseudo-elements
- A tracking tool for the moved and removed pseudo-elements and pseudo-classes is available here.
- Resolved: Drop
content: icon and the icon property from CSS-UI
- Resolved: pull
nav-index from level 3 of CSS-UI and put it on a wiki
- Tantek requested that individuals add the URLs for discussions related to
nav-index to the wiki here.
- There wasn’t time to discuss the
text-overflow issue, so discussion will continue on the mailing list.
- Resolved: Create a taskforce to work on box-tree API and extensible CSS APIs
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2014-11-12
- The discussion about CSS3 UI focused on two different items: the previous decision of the working group to add Florian as a co-editor to CSS3 UI and how CSS3 UI should progress forward. In regards to co-editorship, it was decided that Florian should function as co-editor for CSS UI Level 4 instead of for level 3. Progress on CSS3 UI will hopefully move forward more quickly now that tantek has time to focus on it and more unstable items will be moved back to level 4. The work Florian already has done to take previous commits into bikeshed will still be handled by the two of them and they will work together to get the edits Florian found into CSS3 UI.
- Resolved: Add Florian as a CSS UI level 4 editor, not to level 3, and they will work together on publishing the pieces that Florian already prepared for level 3
- Resolved: New WD for Exclusions and Position
- The FPWD of Pseudo-Elements will happen after language is added for
::grammar-error and ::spelling-error, including information pertaining to the security concerns.
- There was a lot of support for the general path dauwhe is taking on Generated Content and it was agreed that as issues come up they’ll be discussed further on the list.
- Resolved: Proceed as outlined by dauwhe for Generated Content and continue conversing on the mailing list
- The
content property should stay where it is.
- The language on the
:hover pseudo was wrong and will be changed.
- fantasai asked for responses on the mailing list about where
::selection should inherit from.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2014-10-22
- Resolved: Animation properties don’t apply inside
@keyframe rules except the animation timing function (where we have explainer text already)
- Resolved: Keywords are invalid
@keyframes names and will throw an error when set through the OM
- Resolved:
findRule/deleteRule return/delete the last rule with the specified key.
- sylvaing requested input/assistance in turning the Animations resolution from Sophia regarding how the animating values are computed when they depend on the value of another property into actual prose in the spec.
- There was disagreement between the authors of Text about the purpose and effectiveness of an author poll to try and determine sentiments from Korean speakers about the spacing solution developed at the Sophia F2F. In the end, there was wide support for contacting companies to see what issues they have encountered and an e-mail will be written to poll individuals in an attempt to get more responses. If there is no significant response or no valuable data, the group will defer to their Sophia decision.
- Once the spacing issue and a few others are resolved, Text will be ready for a LC publication, so people were asked to submit any issues they may have soon so they can be addressed.
- If they haven’t already, TPAC participants were asked to add their information to the CSS wiki. Also, another call was also put out for additional topics for discussion to be added to the wiki.
- Flexbox‘s LC period will end just before TPAC, so everyone was urged to review it, especially for compat feedback on the
flex-basis: auto/main-size issue.
Full Minutes
Minutes Sophia-Antipolis F2F Part VI 2014-09-10: CSS3 Text, Survey of All the Specs
CSS3 Text
- The proposed solutions to creating an algorithm for spacing of un-language-tagged content were discussed and limited to two options:
- A. Treating Hangul as non-expandable and Han/Kana as expandable
- B. Use fantasai’s Universal Compromise approach
- The spec authors will put out a poll to determine which of the remaining options is most livable.
- In conjunction with Internationalization WG, the group will create a wiki or Note of best practices for language specific justification and link that in the spec. CSS Text will not be responsible for detailing justification best practices (only the limits within which implementations must behave).
- Resolved: Remove
distribute special-case logic from text-align-last
- Resolved: Add
inter-character, same meaning as distribute
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Survey of All the Specs
- The group took some time to go over every spec both for good housekeeping and to work toward meeting the new heartbeat requirement from W3C (Details here).
- CSS3 Linebox has an outstanding resolution to publish an update
- CSS Generated and Replaced Content is getting stripped down and will pull in GCPM generated content bits before being republished by fantasai, dauwhe, and maybe TabAtkins
- CSS TV Profile 1.0 will be made into a note
- CSS Presentation Levels will be made into a note
- CSS Reader Media Type will become a rescinded note
- CSS Hyperlink Presentation Module will become a rescinded note
- CSS Basic Box Module will become be republished with an obnoxious note of instability pointing to CSS2.1 as the normative spec.
- CSS Grid Positioning is an erroneous link as it was superseded by Grid Layout
- BECSS will become a rescinded note
- CSS Marquee will become a rescinded note
- CSS Mobile Profile 2.0 will be made into a note
- CSS Multi-column Layout is still alive and well, it just needs more work and tests
- CSS Device Adaptation is on hold waiting until we hear back from others not at the meeting
- Resolved: CSS Template Module becomes actively-developed Note
- Resolved: Add TabAtkins as editor of css3-ui
- CSS Positioned Layout will wait until we hear from ArronEi
- CSS Speech is fine, but just waiting for a better test suite. People are implementing it, though.
- CSS Image Values Level 3 will be edited and republished by fantasai and TabAtkins
- Resolved: CSSWG thinks Fullscreen should move to a Note referencing the WHATWG spec
- CSS Images Level 4 will stay as a WD, no republication until something to republish
- CSS Sizing Module is being actively edited
- CSS Animations will be republished in the next three months by sylvaing
- Resolved: add dauwhe as editor to Paged Media 3
- CSS Conditional Rules is just in need of a few more tests to fill in the gaps
- CSS Overflow Module is active, just doesn’t need publishing yet
- Selectors Level 4 is active, just doesn’t need publishing yet
- Box Alignment Module L3 is active, just doesn’t need publishing yet
- CSS Exclusions is active, just doesn’t need publishing yet
- CSS Values and Units is almost ready, but needs some word-smithing
- Text Decoration 3 is active, just doesn’t need publishing yet
- DOMMATRIX will become a rescinded note
- CSS Fonts is active, just doesn’t need publishing yet
- CSS Scoping needs to incorporate outstanding edits, be republished
Full Minutes
Minutes Sophia-Antipolis F2F Part V 2014-09-10: CSS UI, Next F2F Dates, New W3C Process, Flexbox
CSS UI
- andreyr brought up the request for a
last-visible-line-in-block ellipsis. More discussion is needed to create a concrete understanding of all the related problems and come up with a solution.
- Resolved: The number of lines of context visible as the caret is moved towards the edge of a scrollable area is a quality of implementation issue
- No change for
:focusWithin, can use :has(:focus) instead.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Positioning
- andreyr will put together a proposal to update positioning to better handle fixed & sticky positioning inside
overflow:scroll boxes
Full Minutes
Next F2F Dates
- Due to flight costs, proposed dates are the week of 9 February with CSS meeting Monday and Tuesday and meeting with SVG on Wednesday.
Full Minutes
New W3C Process
- Resolved: Convert all specs to the new W3C Process at the next publication at which such a conversion is allowed.
- plh presented new tooling for publishing WDs. W3C plans to allow up to one snapshot per day, and editors will be able to publish without W3C staff intervention. There was some discussion of how much oversight the CSSWG should have on publishing, whether editorial or substantive changes could go directly to /TR, etc.
Full Minutes
Flexbox
- Resolved: Accept current solution for issue 20 (keyword for auto flex basis), with issue for waiting on compatibility feedback, and explaining alternate solution.
- Resolved: Accept proposed resolution for issue 21
- Resolved: Ignore the potential effects of an intrinsic min/max size when resolving percentages (issue 27)
- Resolved: Accept issue 39
- Resolved: Rejected due to misunderstanding of the spec for issue 22
- Resolved: Rejected due to out of scope on issue 23
- Resolved: We like
flex-wrap: balance idea but are deferring it (issue 25)
- Resolved: No-change on issue 35
- Resolved: Republish as LC when the edits are done
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Sophia-Antipolis F2F Part IV 2014-09-09: Initial Letters, Animations
Initial Letters
- Resolved: Publish FPWD of CSS-inline with
initial-letter section intact, and 2 prior sections pointing to appropriate parts of 2.1, with note that they will be updated.
- Resolved:
initial-letter depends on line grid spacing or (if none) line-height of containing block. Does not depend on content of the lines.
- Resolved:
initial-letter does not have longhands
- Resolved: Order of values is size first, drop second (as decided in previous F2F)
- Resolved: Size is a
number. Alignment point is determined by script.
- There were some unresolved concerns about the best approach to handle initial letters with combining marks.
- Discussed cases where the alignment subject should be the glyph bounds vs. the margin-box bounds.
- Ruby’s interaction with
initial-letter was also an area of concern.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Animations
- sgalineau outlined the remaining issue about how to resolve properties that depend on a value from a different property. The options for the behavior were outlined in an e-mail from dbaron available here
- All the options were evaluated and the group originally leaned toward option D.
- There was a lot of testing done to determine which behavior browsers currently use and there was no clear winner.
- Eventually it was concluded that the optimal behavior was option G (Base values are interpolated values from all animations on this element and on all elements on which its computed values depend) with the beta variant (Base values are dynamic (i.e., if the expected value at a future time changes the running animation changes to match)).
- Resolved: Use Option G Beta
- Resolved: Animations and Transitions both really do have the behavior that non-interpolable properties switch at 50% of the timing function.
- TabAtkins will write an e-mail summarizing the proposal phasing out current requirements for snapshotting some events.
- Resolved: When
animation-duration:0s, start/end events fire with 0 elapsedTime
- Resolved: Iteration events only fire for iterations that are actually run e.g. those not ‘absorbed’ by a negative delay.
- Pause events were discussed and had a lot of interest, but were deferred to level 2 in order not to delay Animations level 1.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Sophia-Antipolis F2F Part III 2014-09-09: Motion Path as FXTF, Future F2F Meetings, GCPM3/GCPM4
Motion Path as FXTF
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Future F2F Meetings
- There will be a join meeting with SVG on the Thursday morning of TPAC.
- Next F2F is in Australia hosted by Google and overlapping with SVG, tentatively the first week of February.
- Resolved: Monday-Tue SVG, Weds FX, Thu-Fri CSS
- Next is 18-22 May, NYC, host Bloomberg, dates pending research on other conferences around that time
- Google will host sometime in late summer with a location somewhere in Europe (London, Paris, and Zurich were all mentioned)
Full Minutes
GCPM3/GCPM4
- There was a wide-ranging conversation about moving GCPM3 forward, how to better spec items that are currently mostly magic, and what pieces would be better served in a different spec entirely. Proposed:
- For footnotes, there was general consensus that the current model relied too much on magic and that functioning footnotes are important to achieve.
- There was some discussion of what a page is and reviving work on paginated views. Also on the impact of pagination on various APIs.
- Later, dauwhe presented some proposals for GCPM4:
- Extensions to Regions in order to handle running heads and footers and footnotes, particularly for handling copying vs. continuation of a flow, and for extracting from the current page.
- Using page templates to represent the footnote area and the 16 margin box slots from Paged Media
- General agreement on the approach, though it was felt the proposals needed more revision.
- dauwhe offered to edit all relevant specs
Full Minutes || Specs Referenced: GCPM3 and GCPM4
Minutes Sophia-Antipolis F2F Part II 2014-09-08: z-index and SVG, Prioritizing image(color), randomize(), Animation and calc() of Keywords, Motion Path, Issues in Media Queries 4
z-index and SVG
- Resolved: The root SVG element automatically creates a stacking context, as does
foreignObject
- Resolved: SVG elements honor z-index automatically (like flex items), without requiring
position
Full Minutes
Prioritizing image(color)
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
randomize()
- Resolved: Not pursuing randomness at this time.
Full Minutes
Animation and calc() of Keywords
- There is generally high interest in animating to/from keyword values, but that means the keywords must be acceptable within
calc(), which presents behavioral complications for many keywords.
- Krit will investigate implementer interest and draft up a preliminary whitelist of keywords that could be included in
calc().
- The question of why
calc() doesn’t have min/max functions was re-answered.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Motion Path
- Krit presented his proposed solution for motion path which contains three long-hand properties;
motion-path, motion-position and motion-rotation and their shorthand, motion.
- The group received the proposal positively, but had several potential issues that will need to be addressed. They included:
- Calculating angle based on position
- Property name confusion
- Having to define motion-path multiple times
- Interaction between transforms and motion
- Resolved: Make this an official editors draft with krit, shane, and TabAtkins as editors
- The entire group was given an action to read, review, send comments about what you would like changed or noted or marked as an issue for FPWD
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Issues in Media Queries 4
- Resolved: No change: aspect ratios remain integers
- Resolved: Deprecate
device-* media features. Keep behavior, but authors “must not use”
- Resolved:
resolution MQ uses the vertical resolution when pixels are not square.
- There was significant debate on the best way to handle high-contrast and color-inverted styling with several different approaches raised and discussed to maximize usability, but also encourage a11y-friendly code.
- Resolved: Add color-inverted media feature with values
none and inverted
- Resolved: We will add one or more high-contrast related media features
- Resolved: We won’t distinguish between “UA doesn’t support scripting” and “scripting is supported but turned off”
- Resolved: Close issue 12 wrt View Mode spec as no change
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
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