CSS Pseudo-elements Level 4 First Public Working Draft
The CSS Working Group has published an updated Working Draft of CSS Pseudo-elements Level 4. This module describes the syntax, styling, and inheritance/cascading models for each of the existing CSS pseudo elements, re-introduces ::selection (with a much more comprehensive description of how it’s supposed to work), and introduces a few new ones, such as ::placeholder.
This is a First Public Working Draft, and is in a somewhat rough state. Feedback is welcome, especially corrections. The ::selection section in particular could use a close review.
As always, please send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-foo]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
Minutes Telecon 2015-01-14
- Resolved: Add Tamil back to Counter Styles spec
- The discussion of
order affecting tab order and speech order in Flexbox will wait until Bo Campbell is on the call.
- Resolved: Re-add the mandatory minimum of one million tracks to Grid for
repeat()
- Resolved: Drop the
stack value from Grid
- Resolved: Allow “auto” in
minmax() for Grid, have it look at min-width/height for value, using same “auto” behavior as Flexbox
- Resolved: Accept
repeat(auto, ...) syntax for Grid
- Deferring on a decision about justifying grid tracks to give a chance to consider the implications.
- Resolved: Unprefix
min/max-content keywords
- Resolved: Require quoting
:lang() values as a string if they have asterisks
- There was some concerns about the implications of the change regarding ‘direction’ propagation from
body, but due to the limited amount of time remaining on the call, nothing was resolved or decided.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-01-07
- Resolved: Meet 18, 19, 20 of May in NYC hosted by Bloomberg
- Everyone received an action to post topics for the meeting in Sydney on the wiki for the F2F
- Resolved: Publish with the Pseudo-Elements draft as-is, noting that what’s there for the OM is just some ideas as a starting point for discussion
- Resolved: keep
::grammar-error and ::spelling-error in the Pseudo-Elements draft
- Resolved: Publish FPWD of CSS Pseudo-Elements
- fantasai will put her proposal for having descendants of
p::selection inherit the style into the spec.
- Everyone received an action to review the wiki tracking Flexbox accessibility concerns created by bcampbell in order to discuss it next week.
- Resolved: For CSS3 UI we intend ‘auto’ to cover behaviors that can’t be described by other styles in the UA style sheet, and we want to define it more precisely, but we need to work out on the list what that definition should be
- There didn’t seem to be much interest in implementing
::value and ::choices in the near future from implementors, however the group will wait on a formal write-up for ::placeholder before deciding on if ::value and ::choices should be moved to Pseudo-Elements from CSS3 UI.
Full Minutes
Minutes Santa Clara F2F Part IV 2014-10-28: Fonts, Animations, Scrolling Effects and Primitives, Snap Points, Text
Fonts
- The expressed desire to have Kai classified as a cursive font from the Chinese publishing group as a way to distinguish that is is a different style garnered a lot of mixed thoughts and concern that the group didn’t have the expertise to make the right decision.
- There was also concern that Kai isn’t widely downloaded as a font and more research is needed to see if it’s common in devices marketed to a Chinese-speaking population.
- Resolved: Topic (above) goes back to the mailing list to find a good solution
- Resolved: Only download a single font per family when unicode-range values overlap
- Google’s proposal for a timeout function for font downloading was discussed and fleshed out further.
- A better definition of when timeout occurs needs to be created.
- This also needs to be optional when only the real font will do, such as icon fonts.
- There was neither full opposition or support, so discussion will continue on the mailing list.
- Resolved: Start editor’s draft of CSS4 Fonts
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Animations, Scrolling Effects and Primitives
- Resolved: start work on Animations level 2
- Additive Animation will be a part of Animations level 2.
- Using Animations to smooth out scrolling effects had a lot of support and there was substantial feedback to be put in a more concrete linguistic proposal.
- One expressed concern was that scroll effects need to be able to be turned off by the user.
- rbyers presented his proposal to create a set of primitives in order to allow developers the ability to be innovative in their designs without resorting to building mobile-native apps. In specific, he proposed:
scroll-delay which lets you do anything on the main thread, with syncbeforescroll which lets you just intercept scrolls – you get an event when there’s a “scroll intention” from the user
- volick also presented his set of proposals and there was a lot of interest in potentially being able to control a bunch of animations with UI Worker, which lets you do some things on the scroll thread, with synchronization.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Snap Points
- The group reviewed progress on Snap Points. Discussed some concerns over:
- behavior at the start/end of a scroller
- travelling past multiple snap points during scroll gesture/animation
- graceful degradation on smaller-than-expected screen sizes
- Resolved: Publish FPWD of Snap Points
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Text
- Discussed options for specifying justification behavior for untagged content.
- Resolved: No examples of justification algorithm for
text-justify: auto
- Resolved: Link to a wiki or NOTE collating information about language-specific justification conventions.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Santa Clara F2F Part III 2014-10-28: Zoom Effects, Flexbox, :role(), Selectors 4, Fragmentations, Transforms, Text, Selections, Counter Styles
Zoom Effects
- maRakow presented his research and thoughts on splitting the layout and visual viewports. His slides are available here.
- There was support for his thoughts about clarifying the meaning of “viewport” when a spec isn’t specific, especially for the older specs. maRakow will make a list of references that need clarifying and send it to the mailing list.
- Though people didn’t want to define zoom behavior in such a way that it limits smart design, they were very much in favor of giving authors more controls to create those smart designs.
- Discussion about all these issues will continue on the mailing list.
Full Minutes
Flexbox
- Resolved: alignment in Flexbox should depend on the value of flex-wrap (wrap or nowrap), not the number of lines that result.
- Most of the other issues will be addressed by the authors.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
:role()
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Selectors 4
- Resolved: unprefix
:dir and :lang
- The current goal with selectors 4 is to separate the unstable bits out and put them in level 5 so that the spec can make its way through CR.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Fragmentations
- The remaining issue of how to handle containers with no break opportunity was agreed to be no data loss for all container types.
- Resolved: Publish a new WD of Fragmentation and give 6 weeks for feedback before CR
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Transforms
- smfr’s proposal for a new “3D rendering context” concept and Robert O’Callahan’s counter-proposal were discussed with a focus on the ‘preserve-3D’ property and how much memory would need to be allocated for smfr’s proposal.
- A point of particular concern was what the author’s expectation is for when 2D and 3D elements would intersect when the 3D item is rotated.
- There was discussion of inheriting transform-style.
- Those interested in Transforms will look over smfr’s results and discuss further.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Text
- Resolved: Layout methods should depend on writing system in addition to language convention
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Selections
- Resolved: Two-value text-overflow is line-left and line-right.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Counter Styles
- Resolved: Add to Counter Styles the additional styles supported by 2+ browsers (per r12a’s email), do not add the styles supported by only one browser
- Resolved: Take Counter Styles to CR and go to the new process if we can
- Resolved: Minimum of 3 months for Counter Styles CR
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
CSS Box Alignment Level 3 Updated
The CSSWG has published an updated Working Draft of CSS Box Alignment Level 3. This module defines extends the Flexbox alignment properties to apply to all layout models and adds additional controls for logical positioning, space distribution, and handling overflowing elements.
This is the vertical centering module, people.
This module’s syntax and functionality is in the process of stabilizing now and we need your feedback. Think of all the cool things you could do with the new alignment properties! Imagine them! Examine them! Make examples! Write rants! And tell us what is awesome and what is stupid so that we can fix it to be better before it gets locked down in shipped browsers.
Changes since the last Working Draft are listed in the Changes section.
As always, ideally send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-align]) and your comment topic in the subject line. Alternatively, post your comment here or in the more discussion-friendly CSS3.info cross-post. (Or, if that’s still too scary, email the editors directly.) Please do not expect us to go fishing for your comments in the ether. We won’t know it’s there and we will therefore deliberately and mercilessly ignore it. If it’s on your blog, email the link or post it as a comment. It’s super not that hard. Thanks.
Minutes Santa Clara F2F Part II 2014-10-27: Shrink-to-fit, Sizing, Grid, Test Suites
Shrink-to-fit
- There was no agreement on the best behavior to create interoperability for layout. Everyone seemed to like their own approach.
- Several people were tasked with writing e-mails to the list describing their float layout for intrinsic sizes in order to try and create an agreement for how the sizing approximation works and then spec that.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Sizing
- No one had a perfect solution for how to resolve intrinsic sizes of non-replaced blocks when the width isn’t definite.
- Assuming the value is 0 was raised and garnered some interest, but there was a desire to ensure that the description is correct.
- The interested parties will work together offline for a solution.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Grid
- There was a long conversation about the request from SASS to not use bare parentheses since they use it for grouping.
- Brackets were suggested as an alternative. The editors stated that when they were originally writing this part of the spec, the selection of parenthesis over brackets was a coin-toss choice, not a specific preference.
- There was conversation on which provided more readability, brackets or parenthesis which no clear winner, but no one strongly disliking either option.
- However, there were a considerable number of people that had concerns about the precedent that the group would be setting by agreeing to make this change for one preprocessor, even though it’s a large one.
- Ultimately, there was no consensus on the change.
- Rossen brought his proposed algorithm for grid fragmentation to the group for feedback. His algorithm sought to maintain grid areas as non-fragmented as possible.
- There was concern about forcing items onto the next page to avoid fragmentation and about defining a non-ideal algorithm when implementers may be able to do better behavior.
- Break properties were also discussed with some concern expressed that the proposal states that they don’t apply to grid items, just the content inside.
- The work gregwithworth has done on collapsing was tabled for the time being.
- Grid‘s inability to handle problems like this should be solved since it’s a reasonable case. Fantasai outlined a potential approach and she and TabAtkins will work on making it possible.
- Sizing of grid items inside the containing block will be clarified slightly in the spec language by explicitly stating that sizing is defined by the object’s type.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Test Suites
- ArronEi will go through the errata on CSS 2.1 and see exactly what needs tests so that an update can be published with a test suite.
- He is also working on creating a document that standardizes the process for getting tests and will use the backgrounds and borders test suite to make sure his process is complete and accurate before presenting the document to the group.
Full Minutes
Minutes Santa Clara F2F Part I 2014-10-27: CSS3 UI, ::selection and Pseudo-Elements issues, Animations, Media Queries
CSS3 UI
- Resolved: Add Florian as editor to CSS3 UI
- There was general consensus that the pseudo-classes listed should only be in Selectors. They can move back into CSS3 UI if it seems like it will make progress a lot faster.
- The pseudo-elements may be removed depending on if there’s any implementations.
- The values for
text-overflow should be start/end instead of right/left
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
::selection and Pseudo-Elements issues
caret-color and text-shadow will be added as properties- The color change when text is selected was discussed in regards to what parts should change and what shouldn’t, such as underlines and text-decorations. fantasai will look into the Microsoft implementation which was described as only the text and background are selected.
- When text is replaced, it was suggested that the color should always be different to indicate the change.
- When discussing the issue raised here it was agreed that the second option is the best choice and offers the most interoperability. It is, however, very hard to describe in prose, so anyone interested was asked to give it a look to see if there’s a way to improve the description.
- There will be more testing, specifically on IE, to see if it’s better to have color inherit through a cascading thing with tree depth or having the inheritance go through the
::selection tree
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Animations
- Resolved: In level 1 of Animations we describe the current behavior of
findRule and deleteRule
- Resolved: Make
appendRule always add at the end of the keyframe no matter if the key already exists.
- Resolved: No change for now for “Should
CSSKeyframesRule inherit from CSSGroupingRule” bug (available here).
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Media Queries
- There was a broad discussion about features that improve accessibility that should become a part of Media Queries both for their accessibility value, but also because they can have value to designers in general.
- Resolved: Review all accessibility related issues to come up with a broad proposal.
- Resolved: Reject
scroll-position Media Query
- Resolved: The media features
overflow-inline and overflow-block are fine as they are. No change for current concerns.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Telecon 2014-12-17
- It’s confirmed that the new task force will meet on 7 and 8 February in Sydney, just before the CSS F2F
- The wiki for the Sydney F2F will be updated with nearby hotels
- For Box Alignment, the group was evenly divided as to if ‘true’/’self’ should be allowed in combination with ‘stretch’. Several people expressed a desire to have more time to read up on the issue before forming an opinion, therefore it was decided to resolve on publication without ‘stretch’ in
item-position and move it back later once the group comes to a decision.
- Resolved: Publish a new working draft of Box Alignment that doesn’t have the changes to ‘stretch’, but instead have an issue
- Resolved: Publish a new Inline Layout working draft
- Resolved: Take Counter Styles to CR
- Resolved:
findRule and deleteRule will apply to the last keyframe with a specified value (no change to Animations spec)
- Resolved: For multiple values we expect the number and order of values to match, but whitespace will be trimmed by browser. As long as number and order is good, you’ll get the last rule that matches.
- tantek will work on the pending edits to CSS3 UI this week
- The group had a lot of concerns about the proposal to have the tab order follow the visual order and gave a lot of feedback of potential breakages with this change. bcampell will create a list of example websites and/or screenshots to help further understanding and the group will come back to this topic in the new year.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2014-12-10
- Rossen introduced the creating of a taskforce to tackle some of the lower level layout primitives and exposing the programmability model of layout and styling to script. The group will meet in person just prior to the Sydney F2F in February to finalize details of the charter, meeting schedule, and exact scope of what the taskforce will try to achieve. Anyone interested in this work is invited to join the mailing list and follow on the wiki (available here)
- Everyone in the group was actioned to review the edits dbaron made on the Transitions spec and give feedback.
- Resolved: Keep allowing *-identifier when it’s not digits and recommend a string when it is.
- Resolved: Allow strings as argument to
:lang()
- Everyone agreed that an errata to CSS2.1 should be created to better explain how space is distributed among columns. dbaron will write up Gecko’s behavior for the mailing list and SimonSapin will use that to create some tests and find interoperability for the errata explanation. This discussion transitioned to the difficulties in republishing a document in REC and the lack of tests for the CSS2.1 errata. There was a desire to make sure that changes like this are clear to those looking at the spec.
- Resolved: Add a new link at the top of CSS2.1 linking to the Editor’s Draft
- These CSS3-UI issues were decided:
- Resolved: To the extent that the outline follows the border edge, it should follow the border-radius curve (issue 56)
- Resolved: Implementors may directly manipulate width and height elements on the style attr being changed and change “resize factor” to “resize function” to address fantasai’s concern (issues 47 and 53)
Full Minutes
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