Minutes Telecon 2015-03-25
- Everyone in the group was asked to respond to the e-mail from Bert regarding TPAC.
- There is a two week review period for the Round Displays document.
- Resolved: Publish Values and Units as CR
- Resolved: Publish Variables as CR
- The proposed cuts to what items are in Lists (available here) seemed sound, so the editors will make them and request publication once they’re done.
- Resolved: Publish Cascade Level 3 as CR
- Resolved: FPWD for Cascade Level 4
- Resolved: Publish Will Change as CR
- The box-sizing review period was extended for another week.
- Resolved: Create an ED for TabAtkins’ constructable stylesheets draft.
- Short name for now is cssom-construct
- Microsoft requested a week to review the proposal of changing ‘should’ to ‘must’ in the following sentence from Media Queries 3: “User agents should re-evaluate media queries in response to changes in the user environment”
- There were several different viewpoints on how to address page-specific properties outside of an
@page context, so discussion will continue on the mailing list.
Full Minutes
Minutes Sydney F2F Part II – 2015-02-09 PM: Sizing, Text, Writing Modes, Multi-line/Block-Ellipsis
Sizing
- Resolved: Add gregwhitworth as editor to Sizing
- Resolved: Auto margins assumed to be zero for intrinsic size computation
- The spec authors will work out a way to address the various ways percentages work.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Text
- Resolved: Treat replaced elements as ideographic chars for line-breaking. Based on data, possible add an exception for
 .
- It was agreed that the Text spec says that control characters should show, but everyone should coordinate when the change is made so that no one browser gets inundated with bug reports.
- Resolved: Everyone will go coordinate on September being when control characters (Unicode class Cc) become visible. Implementations should aim to have it in their codebases by June, ready to go out in the next release after the coordination date.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Writing Modes
- Resolved: Keep sideways-left, mark as at-risk, possibly punt if it threatens CR-exit.
- GregWhitworth will look at what options are valid for where writing-modes should propagate from – if it can be from
body or if it has to come from root or if there are other approaches entirely.
- Resolved:
writing-mode: vertical-lr on the rt based on parent’s ‘display’ & ‘ruby-position’
- Resolved: Drop the values if the SVGWG drops the values/properties, otherwise keep them.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Multi-line/Block-Ellipsis
- Resolved: Replace region-fragment with ‘fragmentation’, written by Florian, determine where it belongs.
- Resolved: Split fragmentation values of ‘overflow’ into a separate property. Further develop this in the overflow module.
- Resolved:
region-break gets folded into the new property, too.
- Resolved: Florian added as editor to Overflow.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Sydney F2F Part I – 2015-02-09 AM: CSS2.1 Issues, Font Loading API, Selectors, Text Level 4
CSS2.1 Issues
- Resolved: Change the 3rd bullet point of margin collapsing (CSS 2.1 section 8.3.1): Bottom margin of last inflow child and the bottom margin of parent, no longer collapse if the parent has non-zero min-height and the bottom margin of the last inflow child collapses with the top margin of the parent. Exact changes pending more testing.
- Resolved: Backport
@charset parsing rules from CSS3 to CSS2.1. dbaron to propose errata; zcorpan to update tests.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Font Loading API
- There needs to be more use cases for
font-face-set being constructible.
- TabAtkins will re-order the process of observing the rejection and the queuing.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Selectors
- Florian brought back some documented need for a selector that propagates input states to the corresponding label.
- Resolved: Florian to work on a proposal for a selector that propagates input states to the corresponding label and/or other associated elements.
- TabAtkins brought back his previous idea of allowing
:has() with some previous-child and -parent combinators in fast profile. There were still a lot of concerns about the performance implications. dbaron will test to see what the effects would be so that a more informed decision can be made.
- fantasai brought her proposal to add
::marker to pseudo-elements spec, takes properties from color module and fonts module (color, font-*, and opacity)
- Resolved: Add
::marker with font properties and color to pseudo-elements spec (and still plan to do more later in the lists spec).
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Text Level 4
- fantasai and astearns brought the CSS Text Level 4 document that they’d created to the group.
- For their
text-wrap: balance proposal, there was some concern about the inheritance behavior. Instead, they will work on creating wrap-inside, wrap-before, and wrap-after properties.
- The
white-space properties were well received, though it was thought that discard would be a better word than consume.
- Resolved: Make css-text-4 an editor’s draft (currently a different spec)
- Resolved: fantasai and astearns to edit
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Telecon 2015-03-18
- The
continue property for region-fragment received the most attention for bikeshedding. One issue with continue is that it is a verb when almost all property names have been nouns or adjectives. Some people were inclined to return the name to fragmentation but most of the group felt that would have no context outside of the working group. It was suggested that there was likely vocabulary for this concept and that users of programs like inDesign or PhotoShop would likely have some suggestions.
- There was also clarification on the purpose of having the
region-fragment properties defined outside the overflow context. It was agreed thought they are similar, they’re not the same and therefore should be separate.
- TabAtkins brought up that the current behavior of
all isn’t viewed as particularly accessible since it removes the :focus outline on an element. Consensus was the old default that was removed from the spec would fix the problem. The spec authors will go back and see if there are any reasons that default was removed that need to be addressed and re-introduce next week for formal resolution.
- The Microsoft team will look into if Microsoft is open to submitting
.cur and .ico to the web consortium.
- Resolved: Add a note saying
.cur and .ico are the standards and they will be expected in new products. It’s an informative note. It will be up to the person writing the note as to what exactly goes inside.
- There were no objections to mandating PNG as a supported format of the
image CSS value, as well as SVG if the implementation supports SVG and saying for cursor that all non animated formats supported for image MUST be supported in cursor, and that all animated formats supported in image SHOULD be supported in cursor. However, Microsoft asked for a week to review, so formal resolution will be asked for on next week’s call.
- Most people seemed to agree that we should overflow the same way we’re doing other logical properties and whichever is declared later wins the cascade, but conversation will continue on the mailing list to suss out any added complications.
- For now, work on
trailing-spaces will be in CSS Text Level 4
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-03-11
- Resolved: Don’t add a property to hide scrollbars at this time.
- Florian brought up the two different allowed implementations of pre-wrap in the CSS Text spec and his belief that it’s confusing to have two different behaviors and that neither of the spec’ed behaviors may meet author expectations. Everyone spent time with the examples and comparing them to text editors and word processing software to determine if there really is an expected behavior. None of the implementors had an interest in changing their version and the group wasn’t convinced this is necessary given that most editing on the web is done with custom code.
- Resolved: Add the
trailing-spaces value to text-decoration-skip.
- It was agreed that, though the proposal to create special word-break rules for Korean (available here) was possible, it wasn’t necessary as feedback from Koreans has been that the current default is acceptable behavior.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-03-04
- Resolved: Publish a new working draft of CSS Grid.
- Resolved: TabAtkins and dbaron are co-editors for Animations.
- Resolved: Do not change the current Flexbox spec for now knowing the compat risk with the change in abspos handling.
- Resolved: Publish a new WD for CSS3 UI.
- Everyone, especially implementors, were actioned to review Florian’s proposal (available here) for a more precise description of how box-sizing works. There will be three weeks to review the proposal before the issue is revisited.
- There was a conversation about potentially reverting vertical percentage padding/margin to match block. The argument for reverting was for consistency in the odd things about CSS so people only have to learn a weird rule, not a weird rule and its exceptions. The argument against reverting was to allow grid and flexbox to work in a way that was more intuitive to app developers that are relying on these tools. A compromise was raised to create a switch, such as creating ph and pw, so that authors can choose their behavior of choice instead of forcing one group or the other to think outside their desired approach. This idea met with favor. The implementors will hold a conversation to find out more about who is willing to implement what while discussion continues on the mailing list to further flesh out people’s opinions and proposals.
- Resolved: We keep selectors not in the fast profile and not implemented as invalid and we clarify it in the spec.
Full Minutes
CSS Fragmentation L3 Last Call for Comments
The CSS WG has published an updated Working Draft of the CSS Fragmentation Module Level 3. This module describes the fragmentation model that partitions a flow into pages, columns, or regions and provides controls for breaking.
We expect this to be the last WD before CR, and plan to transition at the end of March. Please review and send us any comments. If you plan to review but aren’t sure you have time, send us a note so that we know to wait for your comments.
We are particularly looking for feedback on
- Which rules are dropped when breaks are overconstrained.
- Anything that appears to be insufficiently specified or explained.
We are particularly looking for reviews from
- Anyone who makes a print or PDF output implementation.
- Anyone who makes an eBook implementation.
- Anyone who authors documents for such implementations.
We also welcome any submissions of better/more examples and diagrams.
As always, please send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-break]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
Minutes Telecon 2015-02-25
- Everyone should review the proposal for WebVTT from the VTT Working Group and send comments to the email thread.
- Everyone present thought the change to abspos was still the right thing and that more implementors need to make the change. Further discussion on the topic was deferred until next week when more implementors are on the call.
- Florian requested that everyone look over his proposed solution to issue 69 of CSS3 UI.
- Resolved: Add some normative text to make it explicit that the stacking of focus outline is left to the implementor to provide better user experience.
- Resolved: Tighten the language of the directional focus property behavior and include an informative note about the behaviors we’re considering and welcome/actively solicit input.
- Resolved: Add
@supports to Cascade Level 4
- Resolved: Create an Editor’s Draft for Cascade Level 4
- Resolved: Properties referencing corners drop the axis mentions and go into the block axis first, for example
border-start-end-radius (in CSS Logical Properties)
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-01-28
- dbaron asked that everyone review the Transitions editor’s draft since he hopes to bring it up for publication at the F2F.
- Since both chairs, and likely many others, will be traveling next Wednesday (4 Feb.), there will be no telecon.
- Everyone was reminded to add items to the wiki for discussion in Sydney.
- Resolved: Turn the old roadmap into a 301 redirect to /TR/CSS and discuss updating /TR/CSS at the F2F
- Resolved: Use
content as the new value for flex-basis
- TabAktins explained his rational for in Flexbox creating
no-wrap as an alias to nowrap to alleviate author confusion. However, the group remained unconvinced as to if it was the best way forward. This issue will remain open while the group explores more possibilities and looks for more information.
- The remaining Flexbox issues still need some work and/or understanding before they’re ready for the group, though they should be ready by the F2F.
- fantasai brought her proposal for extending the
break-* properties to control inline layout. It received a warm reception as an idea worth exploring.
- The
text-wrap: balance proposal was also well received with a lot of people showing interest in developing it further.
- fantasai stated that she and astearns will be bringing their unofficial editor’s draft for CSS4 Text to the group shortly to formalize it.
- Resolved: Change the ‘must’ into a ‘should’ and remove the reference to “may ignore” for issue 38 of CSS3 UI
- Resolved: Document
ime-mode as obsolete as described in the draft of CSS3 UI
- There was discussion on changing the language for
ime-mode to say browsers “should not” support, however that wasn’t resolved upon so the previously resolved upon publication will go forward with the existing language and the “should not” language will wait for a formal resolution.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-01-21
- BCampbell brought his revised proposal for addressing the accessibility concerns created when Flexbox changes the visual order of the boxes and the tab order. The new proposal is to create a method for authors to designate if the order is important so that only those items with the important signifier will have their tab order changed in line with the visual order.
- There were several questions about the implications of the proposal and clarifications about if a change is even needed.
- Another suggestion what the the directional
nav-* properties from CSS3 UI might help address some of the issues.
- Several people brought up that this issue seems larger than just Flexbox and has been around since early CSS.
- It was agreed that this topic would be best solved at a F2F meeting. bcampbell said he’d try and make it to Sydney, but likely it would have to wait until NYC in May.
- Resolved:
align-content and justify-content on grid containers operate on the grid tracks (allows distributing extra space between grid tracks)
- Resolved: Publish a new working draft of CSS3 UI
- tantek will make note of the outstanding issues and objections in the working draft so that they’re a part of the publication
- Resolved: Accept the proposed change for the serialization order for
final-bg-color (available here)
- fantasai brought her and dauwhe’s potential solutions for when a float is interacting with an initial letter in Inline. SteveZ raised an alternate proposal that he thought might handle the problem a bit better. Several people were unsure as to which proposal is best without visual examples, so this topic was also declared a good fit for the F2F in February.
Full Minutes
![[Photo: group photo of the CSS working group in San Francisco]](/Style/CSS/csswg-2016.jpg)
Contact: