Minutes New York F2F 2015-05-20 Part I: CSS UI 3, Publication of Specs that Use Their Own Properties as Examples, CSS UI 4, Future Meetings
CSS UI 3
- Resolved: ping the other WGs; unless there’s problematic feedback, go to CR for CSS UI Level 3 in 4 weeks
- Resolved: Drop
box-sizing:padding-box for lack of use cases.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Publication of Specs that Use Their Own Properties as Examples
- Resolved: The CSSWG produces drafts that often use new CSS features for live examples, and thus such CSS Validator errors MUST NOT block publishing of such drafts.
Full Minutes
CSS UI 4
- Resolved: Keep the name ‘text’ in
user-select
- Resolved: Selection stops at the boundary of the
user-select:none element, when dragging from outside to inside.
- Florian will come up with a proposed resolution for the working group’s approval for
user-select:none being included or not when selecting across.
- Resolved: Keep spec-text for
user-select:element as is, unless we uncover platform differences.
- With regard to caret styling, leaverou brought her proposal to use a pseudo-element in place of caret-specific properties.
- The main problems with the current caret-blink-time proposal are:
- only two values (auto and 0) appear to be useful
- setting to 0 is required to set a custom animation
- the UA stylesheet cannot use an animation due to the way standard animations cascade
- However, it was pointed out that regular CSS properties cannot express the caret color or shape, and that most other properties can’t apply because the caret is OS-generated, so special properties are needed anyway.
- It was proposed to instead replace the caret-blink-time property with a caret-animation property, which accepts keywords for the common cases (e.g. ‘auto’ or ‘blink’ for OS-default blinking) and also accepts a CSS animation name. CSS animation syntax could then be used to control ‘caret-color’ for create custom animations.
- Florian will explore these ideas further.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Future Meetings
- Everyone was reminded to book now for August and book soon for October.
- The current proposal is to do Sydney in winter 2016 with Houdini 30/31-Jan, CSS WG 1/3-Feb, SVG 4/5-Feb.
- The west coast of the US was discussed for both May and August 2016, but dates are waiting on locations and dates for AC meetings as well as other May meetings.
Full Minutes
Minutes New York F2F 2015-05-19 Part II: text-decoration-skip, Box Percent Sizing, font-display-loading Property
text-decoration-skip
- Resolved: Add leading-spaces/trailing-spaces to
text-decoration-skip in L4. Change default behavior to skip leading/trailing spaces. Add UA rule that ins and del don’t skip anything. Add note from L3 to L4 indicating impending changes.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Box Percent Sizing
- There was ample discussion about possible solutions to the confusion around box percent sizing. The potential solutions were:
- global switch box-percent-sizing
- switch as keyword on some properties
- ip + bp, usable in some places
- Nothing, settle on block
- Nothing, settle on symmetry
- The discussion was then split into a decision between options 4 and 5 and a separate decision on if there should be a switch at all (1, 2, and 3).
- Resolved: Flexbox top/bottom margins and padding resolve against height.
- Resolved: No switch for now.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
font-display-loading property
- jdaggett brought his proposal for a new property to give authors controls over font-loading that takes four keywords. It is
font-loading-display: auto | fallback | blank-fallback | blank
- There was a lot of concern about creating user confusion with a delayed font load causing text to flash once the font is loaded.
- The potential to have text re-layout with a new font while a user was reading if they happened to click away briefly and therefore causing the user to lose their place also caused concern.
- Ultimately, the meeting ran out of time and discussion will be continued on Wednesday.
Full Minutes
Minutes New York F2F 2015-05-19 Part I: Writing Modes
h3>Writing Modes
- Resolved: No spec change for writing-mode on table cells
- Resolved: No propagation of ‘direction’ from body to html, propagate dir attr with
html:not([dir]):has(>body:dir(rtl)) { direction: rtl; }, back out if web compat problems
- Resolved: ‘writing-mode’ and ‘direction’ need to have the same propagation behavior, so ‘writing-mode’ compatibility affects the previous resolution
- gregwhitworth and smfr will investigate web compat of not propagating writing-mode from body to html to try and come to a resolution on the discrepancy between the previous two resolutions.
- Resolved: Writing Modes spec adds an example of blocking inheritance into SVG
- Resolved: Clarify the spec to correctly explain how to implement sideways
- Resolved: And how to not implement sideways
- Resolved: Don’t mark
vertical-lr at risk
- Auto-sizing block containers in orthogonal flows will be marked at-risk
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
CSS Values and Units Level 3 Update, q unit addition
The CSS Working Group has published an updated Candidate Recommendation of CSS Values and Units Level 3. This CSS3 module describes the common values and units that CSS properties accept and the syntax used for describing them in CSS property definitions. Significant changes since the 2013 Candidate Recommendation include:
- Addition of the
q (quarter-millimeter) unit as used by Antenna House and the Japanese typesetting standards.
- Addition of syntax to indicate upper and lower limits to the
#-multiplier used to represent comma-separated lists in the CSS property definitions (e.g. <custom-ident>#{1,4})
- Various clarifications and a few minor fixes.
All changes since the last Candidate Recommendation are listed in the Changes section.
As always, please send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-values-3]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
CSS Cascading and Inheritance: Updated Level 3 CR, Published Level 4 FPWD
The CSS Working Group has published an updated Candidate Recommendation of CSS Cascading and Inheritance Level 3 and also a First Public Working Draft of CSS Cascading and Inheritance Level 4. This CSS module describes how to collate style rules and assign values to all properties on all elements by way of cascading (choosing a winning declaration among many) and inheritance propagating values from parent to child).
Changes (which are just clarifications) since the last Candidate Recommendation are listed in the Changes section of L3 and additions to L4 are listed in the Changes section of L4.
The additions in Level 4 are:
- Re-introduced the
default (aka bikeshed-me) keyword, which rolls back the cascade to the previous origin. (For authors, this resets the property to what it would be without any author-level rules.) This feature had been dropped from L3 due to lack of implementer interest; but there seems to be strong demand for it at this time.
- Introduced
supports() syntax for conditional @import rules.
We need your help to get Level 4 to CR as there is one major open issue: the keyword name default conflicts with an existing value of the cursor property. So we need a new keyword. Opinions and suggestions welcome. There is some prior discussion, but please read the spec and do your own brainstorming before reading all our bad suggestions. 🙂
As always, send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-cascade]) and your comment topic in the subject line. Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment, send it to @csswg on Twitter, or post it as a comment below.
Minutes Telecon 2015-06-17
- Resolved: Adopt second suggestion from Cameron (available here) about the UA style sheet plus a note saying initial transform-origin for SVG elements won’t lead to an expected result.
- All the needed parties weren’t available to reach a formal resolution, but the group leaned toward deciding that grid items are treated the same way always for percent resolution regardless of how they got to be laid out.
- Resolved:
normal computes to 0 on multi-col on grid containers
- Resolved:
grid-gap property is the shorthand for column-gap and row-gap. grid-gap resets both.
- fantasai will create a note for grid and flexbox about authoring tools supporting the must requirement to re-order the DOM in a logical way. Once that is complete the group will resolve on adding it.
- A decision on percentage padding/margin for abspos boxes with grid container containing block will wait until dbaron returns in July.
- Resolved: Update the REC for css-style-attr
box-sizing will still be removed from level 3 of CSS UI. If there’s a strong use case for it, it can be added to level 4.- A decision on if the UA may treat unsupported values as auto will wait until tantek has a chance to weigh in on the issue.
- The chairs will talk to plh to see if there is any flexibility in the publication process before the group spends time deciding if they want to change how they handle publication.
- Discussion on elements and nested scrollers will continue on the mailing list now that awareness is raised.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2015-06-10
- Resolved: Add the suggestion that the default stylesheet for HTML should have
resize: both for textarea
- Resolved: Reject issue 95 for CSS UI 3, keep using ‘ellipsed’
- Remaining CSS UI 3 issues are editorial and will be addressed by the authors. If they encounter any resistance to their changes, they will bring them back to the group.
- Resolved: Take CSS UI 3 to CR
- Resolved: Don’t offer variants of
user-select: none proposed here that Florian was actioned to investigate
- Resolved: Add Florian’s proposed text to
user-select: none regarding its use in template-based editing
- Resolved:
user-select must not apply to ::first-line or ::first-letter
- Resolved: Reject custom-media definition change to add brackets (proposal here)
- There was still no resolution on how to handle
sideways-left, but the proposed options will go into the ED of Writing Modes with an invitation for input on a solution.
Full Minutes
Minutes New York F2F – 2015-05-18 Part II: Pre-Wrap and White Space Processing, CSS2.2, CSS Zoom, Scroll Snap Point Behaviors
Pre-Wrap and White Space Processing
- Resolved:
pre-wrap preserves all spaces visibly and allows wrapping before and after every space. (Goes into level 3 and marked as at-risk.)
- Resolved: Add
pre-wrap-auto* which does system-dependent behavior for multi-line text fields (Goes into level 3 and marked as at-risk)
- Resolved: Add
pre-wrap-trim to level 4
* to be bikeshedded; better naming suggestions welcome
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
CSS 2.2
- Resolved: FPWD of CSS2.2
- Resolved: Republish CSS2.1 with more angry red boxes
Full Minutes
CSS Zoom
- There was a strong case made for getting rid of CSS Zoom since the implementations vary widely and may never be standardize-able.
- Though several people agreed that it should be removed, or at least deprecated, there were some serious reservations about this removal having negative consequences, including a specific concern about accessibility.
- This topic will be revisited on Tuesday once more data about usage and potential breakage is gathered.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Scroll Snap Point Behaviors
- Resolved: Bring back elements for snap points. Once it is specified, it will be the box that traps all snap points.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes New York F2F – 2015-05-18 Part I: CSS Break, Communicating the State of CSS, Grid
CSS Break
- Resolved: Don’t make the
break-inside changes for level 3; in level 4 look into the “allow” keyword and defining “auto” behavior to represent the default behavior.
- Resolved: Close issue 10 (allow keyword combinations in
break-*) as no change, punt to next level. (Generic ‘avoid’ will solve most use cases.)
- Resolved: If the cloned border is larger than the fragment, drop it. Drop bottom first; then drop top if still no space.
- Resolved:
box-decoration-break clones margins (note this only affects inlines)
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Communicating the State of CSS
- glazou brought the feedback of from the AC group that people would like a more up to date “What is the status of CSS” method than the current snapshot.
- There will be a few changes that show help the issue including some pending changes to bikeshed, and a script will be written to add an out of date watermark for /TR.
- Once the changes are completed, they will be taken back to the AC group for feedback and further improvement.
Full Minutes
Grid
- Resolved: Boxes whose parent and containing block is the grid container. For these boxes, the grid container determines both their size and their static position.
- Resolved: Auto line in grid-positioned abspos counts as the 0th line (for start lines) or -0th line (for end lines) for span calculation purposes.
- Resolved: Proposal E wins for issue 17: Treat all out-of-range indices and missing named lines as ‘auto’. This means missing start lines will be assigned to the start padding edge, and missing end lines will be assigned to the end padding edge.
- Resolved: The auto line is always at the padding edge.
- Resolved: We will error-correct mis-ordered lines (in all cases).
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
CSS Basic User Interface Draft Updated
The CSS Working Group has published an updated Working Draft of CSS Basic User Interface Module Level 3 (CSS3 UI). This module describes CSS features which enable authors to style user interface related properties and values.
All known issues have been resolved, and the CSS Working Group invites everyone interested in this topic to do a complete review of this draft (under the old process this draft would be another last call).
Barring significant issues, we expect to publish this document as CR in 4 weeks (2015/06/18), with changes that are only non-normative, editorial, dropping of at-risk features, or at most resolutions for minor issues.
Significant changes since the previous draft are listed in the Changes section.
As always, please send feedback to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-ui]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
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