MInutes and Resolutions 2009-01-14
- Tentative Resolution: Accepted Melinda’s proposal to change “minimum number of lines in paragraph” to “minimum number of line boxes in a block element” for CSS2.1 Issue 92 (widows and orphans)
- Resolved: Accept Melinda’s proposed CSS2.1 wording to allow margins to be kept after a forced page break for CSS2.1 Issue 98
- Resolved: The number of background layers is determined solely by the
background-image property.
- Discussed dates for June F2F in Sophia-Antipolis, France. June 3-5 and June 24-26 under consideration.
- CSS3 Backgrounds and Borders almost ready for Last Call. Given current state of implementations, any feature without at least one experimental implementation will be marked at-risk in case we need to drop it. (We agreed to be more aggressive in using the at-risk list up front than in the past, to avoid dropping back to LC if we decide we need to drop a feature.)
Full minutes
Resolutions 2009-01-07
- WG will start tracking attendance and use it to determine good/bad standing in the WG starting this month.
- Resolved: Remove slash separating background color and fallback color in
background-color property to solve ISSUE-65.
Rationale: While this makes the property slightly harder to read and requires typing out transparent in full every time, it solves the 2-token lookahead problem very simply.
- Tentative Resolution: For background layers, the WG agreed that only
background-image should determine the number of background layers. ISSUE-74. Rationale: Less likely to cause confusion for authors or introduce unintended behavior through the cascade. Pending: Since Apple has already implemented the other option, we are waiting to hear back from them. If they agree this issue will be resolved as above.
- Resolved: Proposal accepted for CSS2.1 Issue 91: whitespace that is not rendered still affects where line breaking opportunities occur.
- Resolved: Proposal accepted for CSS2.1 Issue 95 to remove sections 13.2.1.1 and 13.2.1.2 (dealing with a page box that doesn’t match the page sheet, which can’t happen in 2.1) from the spec.
- Resolved: The “root em” unit will stay as ‘rem’.
- Resolved: Proposal accepted for CSS2.1 Issue 96 (Rule D mentions all ancestors but forgets the element itself)
Full minutes
Resolutions 2008-12-10
Full minutes.
MInutes and Resolutions 2008-11-26
- For CSS2.1 Issue 86
discussed position of list-item markers in the presence of floats and/or
text-align when ‘list-style-position’ is ‘outside’. fantasai suggests
leaving behavior for floats undefined in CSS 2.1, and to ask web designers
what they think wrt text-align.
- For CSS2.1 Issue 87
discussed how to clarify that comments are allowed at the beginning and
end of a style sheet, not just between statements. Bert actioned to write
a proposal.
- Briefly discussed
recent
changes to Apple’s Transformations and Transitions specs.
- Discussed Selectors API’s Last Call and the removal of namespace support.
CSSWG has no further comments.
- Reviewed status and expected progress on high-priority specs, need for
Members to contribute test suites and how to coordinate contributions.
- For CSS2.1 Issue 88
discussed whether anonymous outer table box is a block formatting context.
Seem to have consensus on that as it affects floats, but there is still an open
question about whether the caption and table margins should collapse as in the
existing
diagram in CSS2.1. Alex to propose exact text for later discussion.
Full minutes
MInutes and Resolutions 2008-11-12
- Discussed margin collapsing. Agreement that min-height/max-height should not prevent margins from collapsing in order to preserve continuity (current behavior causes jumps in content when you cross the min/max threshold). General agreement that we won’t introduce partial collapsing because it would be new, complicated, and not of significant benefit. Will discuss later once we have a detailed wording proposal.
- Resolved: For CSS2.1 Issue 84 (word-spacing) add proposed text from with sentences reversed.
- Discussed @font-face and duplication: whether various source URLs should override each other or become fallbacks for each other. Conversation deferred to mailing list.
- Discussed CSS2.1 Issue 85 (backslash before newline in an identifier), but came to no conclusion. Browser behavior is inconsistent, open question is whether to be consistent with strings (newline gets dropped) or spaces (newline is escaped and is part of the identifier).
- Peter reminds WG that we have been asked to make last call comments on the Selectors API.
Full minutes
MInutes and Resolutions 2008-11-04
- Discussed definition of :enabled and :disabled, general agreement that it should be defined by the markup language but needs proposed wording.
- Briefly discussed ::selection, but did not get into details.
- Resolved: Proposal to remove IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE U+3000 from list of characters affected by word-spacing accepted.
- Briefly discussed border-parts.
- Reminded Bert that we had agreed not to formally publish CSS2.1 again until we’re ready to go to Last Call in preparation for PR.
- David Baron requested a wiki page that tracks what CSS2.1 tests need to be reviewed.
- Dates for Tokyo F2F set for March 4-6, to be confirmed later.
Full minutes
Minutes and Resolutions October F2F: Selectors and calc()
Selectors
- Investigated behavior of attribute selectors with empty string. No resolutions to change the spec any further.
- Briefly discussed dbaron’s [:value] suggestion.
- Resolved: Add note saying that if it’s possible for
:hover to apply to an element because its child is designated by a pointing device, then it’s possible for :hover to apply to an element that is not underneath the pointing device. Rationale: The spec leaves undefined whether the :hover state is passed up the DOM tree. Browsers all treat it that way and websites would break if that were changed. We’re adding this note to clarify to readers that it :hover can match an element even if it not hovered over if its child is positioned outside its geometric bounds.
- Also discussed behavior of
:active, but made no resolutions about it.
- Resolved: Accepted to add
an+b grammar in ISSUE-66 to the Selectors spec.
- Discussed ::selection and its cascading, inheritance, and box model. Lots of complications were presented: this is not a simple problem, and needs a comprehensive proposal to resolve.
- Resolved: Add to the spec wrt ::first-line:
The portion of a child element that occurs on the first
line inherits properties applicable to the ::first-line pseudo element; for properties not applicable to the ::first-line pseudo element, the inheritence is from the non-pseudo-element parent of the ::first-line pseudo element. The portion of a child element that does not occur on the first line always inherits from the parent of that child.
Parsing calc()
- Resolved: Spaces are required around arithmetic operators in calc(). Spaces are not required around parentheses (due to the parentheses: they may be required outside parentheses due to adjacent arithmetic operators). Rationale: The contents of calc() cannot be tokenized without spaces around the minus sign, so to be consistent and avoid confusion we resolved to require spaces around all arithmetic operators.
Minutes and Resolutions October F2F: CSS2.1 and Margin Collapsing
- Resolved: Make a new block formatting context when the block direction (writing mode) changes. Margins outside the BFC do collapse.
- Resolved: For CSS2.1 Issue 80 (Make XHTML <body> magic just like in HTML) adopt chapter 11 and 14 wording proposal from issues-4:31.
- Discussed CSS2.1 Issue 79, resolved that margins do not collapse, but didn’t define what that means.
- Resolved: For CSS2.1 Issue 60 (Z-Index): Add “non-positioned” in (3) (4) and (5) in the 7-point list in 9.9.1 and change “float’s parent’s stacking context” to “float’s parent stacking context”. No other changes. Hixie to email proposal author about this resolution, ask for testcases if there are remaining substantive issues.
Minutes and Resolutions October F2F: Printing, Columns, and Pagination
CSS3 Paged Media
- Resolved: headers, footers, borders, etc. do print on blank pages. We will add a control for this (e.g. a :blank page selector) later.
- Resolved: Adopt proposal that page layout on the current page assumes Initial Containing Block matches current page size and contents lay out accordingly. This requirement is given as a SHOULD, and applies only to non-{Block Formatting Context} elements in the normal flow, all others being undefined.
- Discussed page counter scoping. General agreement that page counters and document counters should be able to interact. Need proposal for the exact details.
- Resolved:
page should be a non-inherited property. auto means look to the nearest non-auto ancestor and use that page value. Implementations that do inherit ‘page’ will be considered conformant to CSS3 Paged Media (since that is the currently-specified behavior), but not CSS4 Paged Media. We will add warning authors that the behavior of ‘page: auto’ would be unpredictable when used within an element with ‘page: somethingelse’.
Pagination
- Briefly discussed whether scrollbars are drawn in print media. Per CSS2.1 this is up to the UA.
- Resolved: It is not required to make content that’s not visible on the screen visible when printing.
- Resolved: Computed height is not consumed by the height between a page break and the bottom of the page. Rationale: A box whose contents fit without overflow on the screen should not trigger overflow in print. We discussed but did not resolve whether backgrounds and borders should print where height is not consumed between the page break and the bottom of the page.
- Resolved: Implementations should avoid creating overflow when paginating where there wouldn’t be overflow when unpaginated.
CSS3 Multicol
Discussed overflow of multicolumn elements: whether new columns should be madd off to the side, or whether a new row of columns should be created as overflow below.
To create a layouts where a new set of columns are created below the first, we really would need a column-length property or somesuch and allow the height to be auto, otherwise the new columns will overflow the multicol element and overwrite later content.
Either way, multicolumn layout is not very usable on the screen because it’s designed for paginated media. So we discussed the idea of overflow-style: paginate to create paginated layouts on the screen. (It would fall back to scrolling behavior on down-level clients.)
fantasai noted that the column width algorithm should define available width such that the UA can consider the available width on the page if that is less than the available width of the element.
Minutes and Resolutions October F2F: Logistics, Apple’s proposals, GCPM, Vertical Text
Logistics
Discussed F2F meetings for next year, settled on three 3-day meetings:
- Tokyo, hosted by Mozilla Japan, in early March
- Sophia-Antipolis, hosted by W3C, in late June
- at TPAC in the US next fall
Web Designer Involvement
Discussed lack of web designers on CSSWG and what to do about it. Neither Molly nor Jason (AOL) could make it to this F2F, and AOL is withdrawing from W3C. The CSSWG wants to keep Jason as an Invited Expert, but this is generally inconsistent with W3C policy and would require an exception from W3C management. Also discussed other possibilities (unminuted).
Apple’s Proposals
Apple presented their proposals for Animations and Transitions, made remarks on Transforms, gradients, reflections. All four major browser vendors are interested in these proposals, and it is very likely that the CSSWG will accept to work on them. Apple says they are willing to drive the specs, but the CSSWG chairs remind them that they need to show up and participate in the group discussions.
Briefly discussed interaction of Apple’s proposals with SVG.
Regardless any progress on these is on hold until the rechartering process is complete.
GCPM
There was some discussion of the GCPM drafts and which parts of it could move forward. No resolutions.
Vertical Text / Text Layout module
- Resolved: Separate line grid from vertical text features in Text Layout.
- Resolved: Alex Mogilevsky and Saloni Mira Rai added as editors.
- Resolved: Target FPWD end of the year, CR during charter period. Rationale: Microsoft has an implementation and would like to nail down the spec. Can’t progress past CR without another implementation.
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