- Minutes -

Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference

23 Oct 2020


Hidde led a discussion of the progress in his work on the WCAG Support Materials Redesign. He pointed participants who needed it to the Requirements Analysis for the redesign. He shared his screen to walk us through the current drafts of About Techniques page, All Techniques page, and draft new WCAG 2 Documents page examples. Discussion included appreciation for the improvements to the usability and appeal of the pages as well as suggestions that an editorial pass is needed and some ideas for increased clarity, including improvement for screen reader performance. More background to the project is found here: previous WCAG 2 Documents and please note: "It helps you know where to go for which type of information." and "Different documents for different purposes." Details of the discussion are found in the full minutes, linked below. Next was a request from the Chairs for someone to serve as liaison to other groups that could benefit from closer collaboration with EO. KrisAnne agreed to see if her boss will agree to her taking on that role on the COGA TF. As well, Chairs are seeking someone to liaise with WCAG 3.0 / Silver TF. Write to the Chairs if interested - thanks! Shawn reminded the group that the week of 26 October is TPAC Breakout Week and that registration is free but required. Also, the Daylight Savings Time change means EOWG meeting on 30 October and/or 6 November will be one hour different in Europe and some other places. Links to meeting time in different timezone is in Upcoming Teleconferences.. Final reminder was for a quick optional survey: Quick reactions to illustration style The meeting closed with news and updates from participants.



Shawn, Kevin, Hidde, Sharron, Daniel, Laura, Crystal, Estella, JasonMcKee, Vicki, Sylvie, KrisAnne
Howard, Brent, Mark, Shadi, Andrew, Amanda, Greta


WCAG Support Materials Redesign

Shawn: Any questions about the background on this? No? Then Hidde it is over to you

Hidde: Here is the link, I will share my screen to show current status.
... All Techniques Overview - It looks like a TR document currently and we are updating it to look like other WAI pages. Starts witha short summary, may need to add a bit here, we are considering a series of expand/collapse sections.
... That is the first page type we have redesigned, what do people think? First impressions?

Laura: It is clearly a major improvement. Whatever adjustments you still want to make, this clear organziation without seeing the wall of text is great. Nothing much more to say than that it is quite an improvement.

Kevin: It seems sparse, is there something needed there - a sentence or two to say 'this is what the section is about'

<Laura> +1 to adding a description

<Crystal> +1 to adding brief summary

Kevin: Have we designed the page because people say they expand and search? We may have missed the actual use case.
... which might be filtered search.

Hidde: The Quick Ref offers that

Kevin: It is a massive improvement but may need to have a bit more thinking about how it will be used.

Kevin: maybe at least intro sentences for now and maybe further along a filtering kind of capability.

Shawn: Let's be sure to capture that as a future enhancement

Laura: If we add a description per section it will add to findability of the page

Shawn: My point was to ask if "All Techniques" is enough or if "List of Techniques" or"List of All Techniques" might be more clear?

Hidde: Any thoughts about that?

Daniel: Not about that, there is a JAWs issue, where I hear alerts, is that just in the Draft stage?

Hidde: Yes it is only for now,it will be addressed.

Daniel: Good, then it is looking very good for now then.

Shawn: There will be an opportunity to comment on specific wording coming soon.

Hidde: Since no one asked about where did all the supporting info, list of contributors, funders, change log etc go? - I will just let you knw that it is on a new page called "About techniques" and I think there is a good opportunity for EO to edit.

Shawn: Did we agree that the lst 3 sections of this will be combined under a single "acknowledgements" section.

Kevin: I think it does need an detailed editorial pass.

<Laura> +1 to editorial re-write and moving contents to "About Techniques" tab

<kevin> Kevin: I would be looking for the content to quickly answer what the techniques are, who they are for and how they would help

<shawn> +1 to kevin

Hidde: The language is still in the style of TR docs and I think we can take an opportunity to update and refresh the tone.

Shawn: And I think AGWG will support that.

Vicki: I would say it is greatly improved, the titles are perhaps a bit long.I really like the fact that the About info is separate and love the improvement.

Hidde: Combining the last three sections as Shawn mentioned will address some of the long titles

The Documents Page redesign

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/wcag/docs/ (note "It helps you know where to go for which type of information." and "Different documents for different purposes")

<shawn> draft new page https://w3c.github.io/wai-wcag-supporting-documents-redesign/alt-index.html

Hidde: Previously tried to create a transistion page from Techniques to supporting WAI resources. Decided I could use an existing page type and have now used that and updated content, added links and go through all the types of couments.
... another update was to provide a bit more text to explain what each type of document is. Still have questions about whether we need still more like an explanation of the QuickRef and how the docs relate to that and to each other
... the illustration of how the docs relate was quite complex. Wondering how people feel about the graphic - is it useful?

Sharron:do we have data on if people find this is useful?

Shawn: We have stats on traffic, know that we got 9000+ hits on the number of visits but not usefulness.

Crystal: It is useful but getting to the information from the the graphic is not clear.

Shawn: So making it interactive would help you? Good input.

<eoncins> +1 to Crystal

Kevin: I have used variations of this - I have found this one to be a bit too complex. But have used a variation in developer training. It does need a bit more thought in how it was put together. I saw one that was a bubble diagram that was effective.

<shawn> +1 to Kevin on image to show how the parts are related

Kevin: another question about where Techniques is listed and then a link to All Techniques, seems a bit repetitive, tautalogical.
... why is the heading not linked?

<Crystal> +1 to Kevin Linking the heading

Kevin: as a new design pattern we may want to give it some more thought.

Shawn: In the past, we link - not the title but the first word in the paragraph.

<Vicki> +1 Kevin

Kevin: Would it be worth trying a few different approaches, different potential design patterns to look at and choose from.

<eoncins> +1 to Kevin

Hidde: I can explore some different ways of doing that, I adapted this from product listings I have seen.

Laura: I agree with Kevin and from what we do at the library, I would be inclined to add the link after the first sentence to provide context.
... the graphic itself is hard to understand its usefulness unless you ask specific questions about it from users.

Estella: I agree with Laura, for me there is something missing in connecting the relationships between the headings and subheadings. About the graphic, I agree with Crystal that unless it is not clear what is being described here.

Hidde: It is meant to describe how the document types are inter-related.

Estella: May not be that clear to someone wh is not already familiar with the document types.

<Crystal> +1 to Estella

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say 2 links: 1. More About Technqiues (???) , 2. List of All Techniques and to note that the graphic isn't great. yet, I think a good graphic would be very

<Zakim> eoncins, you wanted to ask if techniques section are types of techniques and all techniques are actually all of them?

Hidde: Yes it can be clearer but not sure if it a failure of the graphic or only that it is trying to illustrate a complex reality

Shawn: There are 2 things we may want to link for - there is the need to keep this explanation very short on the page. May want to list to both 1. More about Techniques (longer explanation) and 2. a List of All Techniques
... about the graphic - it far too complex and ugly and not as helpful as it could be. But if possible to get a clearer version of a graphic of some kind would be quite useful.

Vicki: I missed the list of all techniques link completely, Agree that we need a simpler graphic.

<eoncins> +1 to Vicki it is not an ugly design, it is a too complex design

KrisAnne: I would like there to be a great graphic of how the docs relate to each other. I skipped over it entirely (and I am a visual person) because it hurt to look at it. I had trouble determining what it even was supposed to mean. It was hard to even look at.

<Crystal> +1 to interactive

<shawn> [ Kevin: open can of huge wiggly worms ]

Hidde: Thinking of making a progressive series of illustration, like in a slide deck

<shawn> was from slide deck that walked through https://www.w3.org/WAI/presentations/WCAG2_using/Overview.php

Shawn: This actually comes from a slide deck that walked through everything

<Vicki> Bravo, Hidde

<eoncins> Great work Hidde!

Shawn: The old page focused on telling people where to go for want kind of information depending on their role. Do people want to think about whether the new page provides that action orientation - helping people know when they want to go to which kind of document. Have we thought of that?

Hidde: I think some of that is in the graphic, other guidance is in the text

Sharron: I would be careful about assuming that we know how people want to use the information without actual data.

<eoncins> +1 to Sharron

Daniel: Maybe provide some examples of what we do know and I think it is important to give guidance based on role

Daniel: I see the need to be cautious but think it useful to suggest direction to people trying to find their way among this complex content.

Liaisons to other groups

Shawn: As you recall, we reviewed the COGA document and found some significant overlap - like Biz Case and Older users - to existing content. Our suggestions were to point to existing content and focus their document on developers
... we found that the COGA TF had no idea of these resources and some had little background on W3C and/or WAI. We did a brief show and tell of resources but found a huge gap.
... we wanted to suggest someone serve as liaison, work with both groups in order to encourage their use of existing resources as well as COGA's input into updating How PWD Use Web

KrisAnne: I am sorry they we so unaware of this work.

Keving: I can see how that happens, I work with somone with dyslexia who knows so much about that but so little about web accessibility in general.

KrisAnne: I am interested in that role, will check with Mark.

Shawn: It is mostly to act as a liaison to keep both groups aware of the wotk of each other.
... Thanks KrisAnne!
... And the other one that needs EO coordination with the Silver TF. They are much more aware of us and we have worked together in the past, but we have not been active recently. So it would be great to have a liaison there - anyone interested in that role with Silver, soon to be WCAG3.

<shawn> WCAG 3 Introduction https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/wcag/wcag3-intro/

Shawn: WCAG will now be the acronym for W3C Accessibility Guidelines (since it is now beyond Web Content)
... so let's keep that in mind and step up if interested.


<shawn> https://www.w3.org/2020/10/TPAC/breakout-schedule.html

Shawn: Next week is TPAC breakout week

Crystal: Any specific recommendations?

Shawn: EPUB3 will be of interest, not sure how much it talks about accessiibility

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/2020/10/TPAC/breakout-schedule.html#adaptation

<Crystal> Thank you

Shawn: As well, Daylight Savings Time changes in Europe next week so check the meeting times in your time zone
... also an optional survey, very quick

open sharing time

Sharron:Knowbility's AIR - teams from all over the world - nearly twice as many as ever before - 45 ! www.air-rallies.org

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version (CVS log)
$Date: 2020/10/26 12:22:20 $