Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

10 Aug 2012


There are Currently three different Introductions to Web Accessibility on the W3C site - one on the main W3C, one on the WAI pages, and one on the WebEd wiki. Discussion on the EO wiki is about how to consolidate the Accessibility Intros into an updated, useful page that will focus the message. Shawn took an action item to use the wiki discussion and today's meeting comments and create a draft for consideration next week.

Two considerations were made for the WAI Training Resource Suite.

Next was discussion of the WAI Mobile pages and how to update them based on the recent WAI Mobile Symposium and other developments. Shawn is recruiting reviewers and EO members suggested Paul Adam and also suggested that we survey attendees and presenters to the Symposium for participants.

In looking at EO member participation, Shawn reminded those who had not done so to take the Web Basics survey, asked members to update availability for teleconferences, and to indicate availability for EO Face to Face, to be held during TPAC in Lyon, France, 29 October to 2 November. Members are welcome for the entire meeting but if time is limited, plan on Thursday and Friday, 1 and 2 November when EO will meet.

The meeting adjourned early and Shawn asked members to use the extra time to catch up with EO actions.


  1. Proposal to replace to old Introduction to Web Accessibility - discuss approach
  2. Training Resource suite - check current status & actions
  3. Mobile pages - reminder of actions
  4. Reminders:


Sharron, Shawn, Wayne, IanPouncey, Helle, AndrewA, Liam, Shadi, Jennifer, Denis
Vicki, Suzette


<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Main_Page#Research_Topic_Next_Up

Shawn: Welcome back and thanks to all who have been catching up with action items.

Helle: I have done some but havn't updated the page.

Shawn: It's OK I took action item review off the agenda today, many are behind..

Introductions to Web Accessibility

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Accessibility_Intros_Notes#Proposal_for_discussion< /a>

Shawn: A reminder that we have three different introductions, would like to make it just two. Thanks to those who commented. What if we replace the old (2005) intro with the new materials from W3C page?

Sharron: New intro doesn't lead into WAi material sufficiently, though it's tone is very good and engaging.

Andrew: I agree and would make much the same comment. We are missing much of the detail for anyone who is coming to the WAI pages and actively seeking accessiiblity information. For that purpose, it needs more depth.

Ian: For different audiences, bear in mind that they may not be coming to WAI specifically but end up there after a search for Accessibility on W3C.
... I agree there may need to be a bit more but not so sure we can determine what brings people to the pages.

<AndrewA> a google search on "w3c accessibility" brings up the W3C accessibility page first and the WAI home page second

Shawn: People who were browsing around W3C page itself and may not even be looking for accessibility in contrast with those who are actively seeking accessibility info.

Ian: Yes, need to balance that.

Shawn: So would it be good to take the W3C intro as a basis and flesh it out a bit more. Would that work or make it too long?

Helle: Maybe add more about WAI and leave out some of what is at the end now and perhaps include "Web Accessibility Basics" materials.

Shawn: The clear pointers to more detailed WAI materials?

Helle: Yes, and How PWD use the Web and like that.

<scribe> ACTION: Shawn to follow up with Ian, Helle, Liam about reiew of Web Accessibility Basics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08 /10-eo-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-200 - Follow up with Ian, Helle, Liam about reiew of Web Accessibility Basics [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-08-17].

Shawn: What about the Basics is good, and what more is needed?

Ian: An obvious section for me is in the Evaluation section, it really needs a lot more.

Shawn: Yes, now that we have new materials, we could perhaps give them more prominence.

Helle: I remember when we made this page - the intro - we had much discussion about how much should we focus on this is for PWD specifically. We have all these listed because we wanted to emphasize that we have a strong focus in this context on people with disabilities.

Shawn: In that time (2005) people had no clue about what accessibility meant, so we needed to emphasize. May not be as necessary.

Ian: If we have this same information on other pages, can the intro simply say "We mean this..." and link to other pages that explain in greater detail?

Shawn: Yeh that is a question about how much we want to include and how much to link out.

Ian: It is not a matter of the number of links to me but rather the ability to state facts on the intro page and have the discussion elsewhere.

Andrew: We could reasonably weave in at this point how beneficial accessibility techniques are for others. Particularly as Mobile and Accessibility are converged (ie voice input)

Ian: It is true of technologies for centuries isn't it? Only now we see the same broad benefits distributed on the web.

Wayne: When we search for accessiiblity, the page resolves on the W3C info. When people take this as an entry point, we could capitalize on it.

Shawn: Right now if people search for where to start with Accessibility, they land on the W3C page because our own intro is dated. If we can design it so that they are essentially the same page, it would be useful for WAI.
... I will take a pass at a draft for a new page that syncs it up and moves toward the newer W3C content and include more WAI info. May tweak the W3C one as well.

<scribe> ACTION: Shawn to draft new introduction with input from group. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08 /10-eo-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-201 - Draft new introduction with input from group. [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-08-17].

Resource Training Suite

Shawn: Andrew, can you provide an update?

Andrew: Not yet, will do in the next day or so.

Shawn: Sharron sent an email with high level, general comments. Andrew, you may want to take a look at that and incorporate some of it.
... most could be for next revision.

Sharron: What about ATAG and UAAG? Seems like those are old?

Andrew: But new ones are still in draft so we must reference the ones that are currently adopted.

Shawn: Let's take a look - may be able to say 1.0 versions are the current standard and recommend 2.0 as a well developed future-looking standard.

Ian: In procurement, if you want to say in your content which specification, a buyer will want to reference the mature standard.

Wayne: That is really right as a procurement target. It must be completely stable.
... even Criteria number may change as the document is reviewed and amended.
... until we have a Final Working Draft the references must remain to 1.0 I think.

Andrew: But you would never want someone going out now to use ATAG 1.0 in a contract because you want output that meets WCAG2

<shawn> ACTION: Shawn - issue with ATAG & UAAG 2 is best for development, but not ready for contract language (write up for training resource suite) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08 /10-eo-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-202 - - issue with ATAG & UAAG 2 is best for development, but not ready for contract language (write up for training resource suite) [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-08-17].

Wayne: Then you will have to be more specific about the output rather than reference ATAG, say something like "CMS must be capable of producing output that meets WCAG2"

Shawn: That point about the transition to standards should probably be included.
... for next week we will have more specific issues on Training Materials next week.

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Developing_Training_Notes#Possibilities_for_future_ revision

Shawn: Next let's consider the cautionary language...

Andrew: Reads from wiki

<AndrewA> DRAFT (Suggested cautionary language): These materials are meant to give structure to your own accessibility knowledge and help you to teach others. If you are the "accidental accessibility expert" and are new to accessibility yourself, however, you are wise be cautious. Be sure you have a thorough understanding of the concepts and techniques because you are sure to get questions and...

<AndrewA> ...requests for more information as you present these materials.

Shawn: Think about what prompted us to develop this ...

what are we trying to do?

Andrew: I seem to recall that we are wary of people misinterpreting the materials because they did not have enough knowledge.

Wayne: Two problems - we want to encourage the accidental expert, so these seems discouraging AND we want to communicate in here that they can be experts in their own area. Maybe say "make sure you understand the concepts of the parts that you are presenting"

Andrew: Making sure that you are aware of what you don't know.

Sharron:Maybe we can say something like no one knows it all - so it doesn't seem directed at individuals and not to be taken personally. "No one knows everything about accessibility so..."

Wayne: There is that fundamental guide for all presentations of any kind - if you don't know the answer just say so and look it up.

Shawn: And use it as a way to reference the WAI materials.

Jennifer: And people don't look at dates and could be referencing some of the old information that is still out there.

Andrew: Be aware of what you don't know, don't let the need to be "the expert" cause you to bluff your way through.

Shawn: Maybe we want it to be very chatty

Sharron: yeh, that sounds good.

<AndrewA> +1

<dboudreau> +1

Shawn: Don't know, but there are resources I know where to look for the answer - WAI resources, wai-ig list, etc
... put it in a positive way.

<scribe> ACTION: Sharron to take these comments and revise the cautionary statement about using training materials [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08 /10-eo-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-203 - Take these comments and revise the cautionary statement about using training materials [on Sharron Rush - due 2012-08-17].

Shawn: Next week we will do final discussion on these training Suite materials and begin promoting the use of the materials. Not sure if we will meet the fall teaching schedule but will shoot for that.

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Promoting_Accessibility_in_Courses

Promoting Accessibility in Courses

Sharron: Yes, Jennifer and Wayne and I are meeting and will have a draft plan and some preliminary recommendations next week.

Wayne: At AccessU, you have Accessibility 101 and a demo of How PWD Use the Web so that we don't have to review the basics every time, in every class.
... I think we need that so that we can be sure that all basics are covered so that the advanced topics can be more focused and, well... advanced

Shawn: That sounds like a good practical tip that you can share on WAI-Engage and help feed that discussion. May also apply to some of the AccessCamps, etc
... if you have a Camp, consider that. Sharron and Wayne start a new page to discuss that?

Wayne: Let's put it on the agenda for our meeting and we can get back about where we want it to go?

Jennifer: Are we discussing promotion in general, or promoting within education?

Sharron: There is the need for general promotion but also a specific interest in getting these topics in technology courses and integrating accessibility into general technology and communications teaching

Shawn: Yes it is broader than just "Here's a new resource, go use it"

Jennifer: It is more complex, the strategies that we have used in the past won't do the job as you are describing it.

Shawn: But we can do both.

Jennifer: They are two different tasks for two very different audiences.

Shawn: There is the fundamental task of promoting our resource and there is the additional task of providing more guidance for integration into existing tech courses.

Jennifer: I like the idea of starting on WAI-Engage
... and I am glad we are finally promoting it, we worked hard on it. It's good stuff Andrew!

Mobile Pages

Shawn: Draft minutes are available, those who were not there can review. We are making revisions and pointing to the existing Mobile Overlap pages. Need updating so that the relelvance is assured. Vicki is leading that and have a bite from outside.
... any ideas about what to update on those pages, please add to wiki.
... Similarly the Biz Case pages could use review and update. Invitation extended to contribute to that work.

Jennifer: Hasn't EO hosted Mobile seminars, has anyone from those been converted to evangelism?

Shawn: Yes, we hosted one, have been involved in some and have reached out to others.

Sharron: What about Paul Adam as a reviewer?

Denis: Yes, I was about to say Paul Adam too

Jennifer: My only question about him is that he may not be OK with the laborious WAI process

Sharron: ..and he is not tech neutral

Andrew: Could we follow up with those who participated and presented at the Mobile Symposium?

Shawn: We can draft up the papers and send out for review.
... will have active follow up in WAI and will have more input next week.

<shawn> get stuff from the eowg wiki main page ! http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Main_Page

Denis: If you want me to contact Paul I can do that, we talk on a daily basis.

Shawn: We need to update the pages before we get folks to look at them.
... anything else on mobile?

Jennifer: Thinking about Indie UI thing has some overlap with mobile, maybe some of those folks will be interested too.

Shawn: One more week on the action items everyone. Next week we are holding our feet to the fire.

Upcoming Meetings and F2F

Shawn: All are welcome to come for the whole week of TPAC. If you can only come part time, please make it Thursday and Friday.
... Who can come?

Ian: Hope to.

Liam: Not looking terribly likely

Shawn: Update for upcoming telev=conferences

<shawn> Accessibility Basics survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09 /wbs/35532/basics1/results

Shawn: We'll break early, give all some time to spend on their action items. Whenever you have time to spend on EO, check the list at the top of the page as well as your action items.

If you all can stay on the phone and let me know about availability.

scribe: will open up for review of Web Accessibility Basics, it is pretty easy. When can you get to it?

All: now, soon, by Monday

Shawn: OK will post it now in case you want to do it now.Thanks everyone, see you next week!

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Sharron to take these comments and revise the cautionary statement about using training materials [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08 /10-eo-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Shawn - issue with ATAG & UAAG 2 is best for development, but not ready for contract language (write up for training resource suite) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08 /10-eo-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Shawn to draft new introduction with input from group. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08 /10-eo-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Shawn to follow up with Ian, Helle, Liam about reiew of Web Accessibility Basics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08 /10-eo-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]

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