Minutes Telecon 2017-03-08
- The suggested date for the dev meetup in Japan is either 18 or 19 April (the evening before the first F2F meeting day or the evening of the first meeting).
- There was some interest in simplifying to make
column-span apply only to direct children of the multicol element however there was also concern about headings nested in sections and similar use cases. There was a desire to find out what browsers do to see if there’s already compatibility which would also lead to adding some test cases to the test suite.
- The group was in favor of the fix to clarify segment break transformation rules when there are multiple segment breaks (available here).
- The actual definition of “form control” will defer to the HTML group’s open issue.
- Resolved: Add font-presentation to the spec and have it effect font fallback. (Accepting this proposal).
Full Minutes
CSS Basic UI Level 3 Updated Candidate Recommendation
The CSS WG has published a Candidate Recommendation and invites implementations of the CSS Basic UI Module Level 3:
This specification includes and extends user interface related features from the properties and values of CSS level 2 revision 1. It uses various properties and values to style basic user interface elements in a document.
This document is intended to be essentially complete, and pending approval of a few recently submitted tests, will have an exhaustive test suite, most of which already passes in two or more implementations. Implementors are encouraged to look through the test suite and to fix areas where they are not yet conforming. Unless this last effort uncovers some unexpected problem, this specification should to move to PR and REC relatively soon.
However, CSS-WG would like to draw attention one feature which is at risk of being postponed or dropped: Directional Focus Navigation. This feature is not implemented in any current desktop or mobile browser. One known implementation is the defunct Presto engine by Opera Software. It is also known that TV browsers, especially UAs conforming to HbbTV use this feature, but the state of these implementations is unknown. The CSS-WG encourages TV manufacturers, software vendors for these platforms, or anyone else with an implementation to get in touch, so that we can evaluate how many independent implementations there are, and how conforming they are. In the absence of this information, it is likely that this feature will be postponed.
Significant changes are listed in the Changes section.
A Disposition of comments is available.
Please send feedback by either filing an issue in GitHub (preferable) or sending mail to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-ui-3]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
Minutes Telecon 2017-03-01
- dbaron will review and comment on the issue on percentage
[max-]width|height and intrinsic sizes.
- The topic of “what are form controls?” was deemed too large and undefined to take up telecon time right now, but the smaller issue around
display:contents could be addressed.
- There were three proposed solutions for
display:contents:
- Treat all the types as stripping off the one box
- Treat all of the types as doing
display:none when you do display:contents
- Do
display:none on form elements and box stripping on others.
- Resoled: Have
display:contents treated as display:none for replaced elements and form controls.
- Resolved: Take the visually first line when considering baseline alignment in flexboxes
- gregwhitworth was actioned to check web compat on fantasai’s proposal (captured here)
- Resolved:
align-self:auto and justify-self:auto still look at parent’s align and justify items for abspos when calculating static position only.
- smfr indicated Apple’s intent to implement fill and stroke, so TabAtkins and fantasai will put a high priority on making the Paint spec ready for a FPWD.
Full Minutes
Minutes Seattle F2F 2017-01-13 Part III: Display Module, Logical Properties, url in content, SVG Integration, CSS 2.1, Snapshot
Display Module
- Resolved: Root is in-flow.
- Resolved:
table-caption and table-cell are flow-root.
- Resolved: Mark the two value at risk (in reference to
table-caption flow-root).
- Resolved:
display:contents behaves as display:inline for all replaced elements and all form controls
- Resolved: Only elements with boxes can affect counters (and elements with
display:contents aren’t such)
- Resolved:
::before and ::after still exist, clarify spec
- Resolved: Keep
br and wbr magic, but add an explainer about how to mimic the results.
- There will be a note added to clarify the interaction of
display:contents and event targeting.
- The spec will clarify that run-in and
::first-letter will grab the first letter from the run-in.
- Resolved: Punt display-or-not from the Display 3 draft.
- Resolved: Publish a new WD of Display after the edits are done.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Logical Properties
- Resolved:
gCS on logical props returns exactly the same value as its equivalent physical property.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
url in content
- Resolved:
url in ‘content’ only applies to images and nothing else in visual canvas, and to audio files in aural canvas.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
SVG Integration
- Resolved: Define everything in CSS.
Full Minutes
CSS 2.1
- Resolved: Publish css21-testing NOTE.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Snapshot
- Resolved: Make the additions to the snapshot listed here
- Resolved: Short name for the snapshot publication is “css-2017”
- Florian will make these edits after TabAtkins fixes an issue with indexes and bikeshed.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Seattle F2F 2017-01-13 Part II: Scrolling, Sizing, Fetch and CSS Interactions, EXI for CSS
Scrolling
- The group revisited scrollers and overflow now that they could draw out visual aids.
- To help understand the problem, they created a grid of the current values of ‘overflow’ (scroll, auto, hidden) and behavior groups desired (auto=current, always, stable). (Picture here)
- Resolved:
scrollbar-gutter is a new property independent of ‘overflow’.
- Resolved: Values are auto | stable | always, potentially with a rename for always if it becomes an issue in later discussion on hidden/visible.
- Resolved: Add the ‘force’ keyword to apply gutter even when overflow is not scroll/auto. (But bikeshed the name.)
- Resolved: Add ‘both’ as an optional keyword: gutter is applied to both sides of element (for cases that desire symmetry).
- Resolved: ‘both’ will only affect the block direction.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Sizing
- Resolved: Add width/height:contain to Sizing 4 for review.
- Resolved: Change
width: fill to width: stretch.
- Resolved: Treat min/max-content keywords as “auto” in the block axis.
- Resolved: Treat fit-content that way, too.
- The authors will rename “fill-available sizing” to “stretch sizing”.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Fetch and CSS Interactions
- Resolved: Integrate with Fetch Integration
Full Minutes
EXI for CSS
- iank will write the formal CSS group response to the proposal.
- Most felt that due to its constraints and similarity to GZIP there wasn’t a need to invest more CSS WG time in EXI.
Full Minutes
Minutes Seattle F2F 2017-01-13 Part I: Grid
Grid
- Resolved: Automatic minimum is clamped by max track size not final track size.
- Resolved: Specify that
min-width: auto only resolves to the automatic minimum size if the item spans at least one track whose min track size is auto. It is otherwise zero.
- Discussion on how percentages should be resolved during intrinsic size computation:
- Originally there were two options listed; treating percentage track sizes as auto or resolve to 0.
- Neither of these options seemed to work well/expectedly for all use cases.
- The group developed six choices to select from:
- Ignore percentage and treat as auto (like block % heights)
- Back compute percentages (like tables)
- Percentages contribute zero, but resolve afterward
- Percentages contribute intrinsic size, resolve afterward during layout
- Option c unless all siblings are percentage, else option a
- Percentages contribute their minimum size (min-width), but resolve afterward
- Several people thought option b would be interesting, but would take a bunch of time to solve.
- Option d was generally agreed to be easiest, but may not solve all use cases and results in overflow when shrink-to-fit sizing is invoked.
- In order to take a straw poll, the list was narrowed down to:
- Ignore percentages
- Backcompute percentages
- Percentages contribute intrinsic size, but resolve afterward
- #3 with a switch based on min-width
- Resolved: Percentages contribute intrinsic size and they resolve after layout.
- During the conversation dbaron raised an idea he had been thinking through: to have properties that let you assign the intrinsic sizes. This was interesting to several people and he was encouraged to write it up, but it wasn’t the right solution for this specific problem.
- Mats’s alternate proposal for stretching images in a ratio-preserving way as well as the original options were discussed.
- Options:
- Make default sizing intrinsic (could opt into contain with keywords)
- Make default sizing contain (could opt into intrinsic with keywords)
- Add sizing options to alignment (Mats’s proposal)
- Resolved: We’re keeping the current specified behavior as it is (no change to the default sizing, non replace get stretched, replaced gets start and add new sizing keywords to address the issues)
- There was also an expressed interest in adding contain to sizing, but people needed more time to understand how it would work.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Seattle F2F Thursday 2017-01-12 Part IV: CSS2.1, What can go to CR this quarter?, WPT, CSS UI 3
CSS2.1
- astearns summarized the discussion from the 4 Jan call on how to continually keep CSS 2.1 up to date (Minutes here)
- There was a strong leaning to go with the note approach with lots of bikeshedding on what to call the note.
- Resolved: Create CSS2-testing as a NOTE
- Resolved: 301 redirect from /TR/CSS21/ to /TR/CSS2/, and from /TR/CSS22/ to /TR/CSS2-testing/
- Resolved: Cherry-pick changes from CSS2-testing/ that have tests and 2 impls and port to /TR/CSS2/: Process-wrangling to be handled by our Team Contacts.
- fantasai will write a wiki page detailing this new process.
Full Minutes || Specs Referenced: CSS 2.1 and CSS 2.2
What can go to CR this quarter?
- The group talked through specs that should be able to make CR soon so they can receive priority on the telecon agendas.
- There was also a group desire to republish every WD this quarter now that there are more tools available to make that easy.
- Resolved: Add Xidorn as editor of css-ruby
- Resolved: Florian co-edits css-contain
Full Minutes
WPT
- Resolved: Move CSSWG tests to WPT
Full Minutes
CSS UI 3
Minutes Seattle F2F Thursday 2017-01-12 Part III: Font Color Palettes, Font Rendering Controls, Font Loading, Tokyo F2F
Font Color Palettes
- myles introduced his proposal for font color palette controls. Spec here and slides here.
- The group had a lot of questions around the decision to allow naming of templates, but not individual colors as people felt it may be too limiting.
- There were also questions about why transitions weren’t allowed on color palettes, though it was suggested that you could resolve the colors in the palette on a per element basis instead.
- The ability to use
currentColor in the default palette will be raised as an issue to resolve.
- Resolved: Accept Myles’s slimmed down palette control (associate a palette name with a font via @rule, assign colors to individual palette entries), with variables usable in the palette entries, drawn from the element’s custom properties on use.
- Resolved: Replace the
integer in font-palette with “normal”, and make it the initial value. (Choosing a specific font palette will require a bound name.)
Full Minutes
Font Rendering Controls
Full Minutes
Font Loading
- TabAtkins will review the open issues.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Tokyo F2F
- Resolved: Industry meetup Thursday afternoon in Tokyo
Full Minutes
Minutes Seattle F2F Thursday 2017-01-12 Part II: Text Decoration, Step-Sizing/Rhythm, Line Grid, Block Step Sizing
Text Decoration
- fantasai introduced her draft of Text Decoration Level 4 for discussion.
- She will add examples for offset based on different anchor points.
- There was some question as to if ‘width’ was the right word for text-decoration-width. It was given that name for consistency with properties like with border-width and stroke-width, but may still need bikeshedding.
- There was support for use-font to allow specifying user value in the font.
- Resolved: FPWD of Text Decoration Level 4
- The relative position example for text-underline-position was reviewed and found helpful in identifying correct behavior.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Step-Sizing/Rhythm
- here was concern about having this as a separate spec from line grid as they’ll be used together frequently. They will stay separate for now and an issue about it will be raised on the FPWD.
- The name also concerned some people, but there wasn’t a better idea right now.
- Resolved: First published working draft for step sizing
- Resolved: koji, fantasai, and dauwhe as co-editors.
- Resolved: Rename to css-rhythm
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Line Grid
- Florian asked for feedback on finding a way to get momentum on the spec. He suggested adding an auto value on line-grid, but there was concern that’s too limiting to be useful.
- Overall simplification was then discussed to get momentum, but several browsers said that that would not cause this to move further forward on their roadmap.
- fremy proposed a within-BFC line grid declaration that several browser expressed an interest in, so he was actioned to write up his proposal.
- Resolved:
line-height-step affects line grid
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Block Step Sizing
- fantasai introduced her proposal to add a block step sizing property to CSS Rhythm.
- After some discussion, there was mostly positive responses to the proposal and a feeling that it would be a useful addition.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Seattle F2F Thursday 2017-01-12 Part I: Transforms
Transforms
- shane will investigate fixing the quaternation algorithm to address issue 33 and the interpolation algorithm to address issue 40.
- Resolved: For animation/rendering purposes, canonicalize
perspective(0) to perspective(inf).
- Resolved: Add
transform-origin-x/y/z to the level 2 spec (Issue 29).
- Resolved: Close issue 31 no change, as the relevant feature has been removed already.
- Resolved: Issue 32 is closed due to Sydney resolution, change has already been made to V&U.
- Resolved: Issue 34: A zero-degree
rotate() is treated like an identity transform, relative to other rotation functions. (Similar to how perspective(0) is now being treated.)
- Resolved: Issue 38: just accept that transitions will run whenever the functions differ, even if the endpoints are functionally identical.
- Resolved: Reject issue 41.
- Resolved: Issue 42: respond that while this does look better, for web compat reasons we can’t change, and we’ll continue to push things that make it easier to avoid matrix interpolation.
- Discussion on naming identity function will happen over github.
- Resolved: Close issue 43 as invalid, now that all transforms decompose with a 4×4 matrix.
- Resolved: Issue 45 is a Geometry issue, with a warning that this function doesn’t work with flattening anyway and should be dropped.
- Resolved: The scale described in issue 44 doesn’t belong in the transform specification as it isn’t used by CSS transforms – instead the fairly simple functions that describe how to extract a scale from a matrix should be described directly in SVG.
- Resolved: Issue 46: change the spec to instead use a UA stylesheet rule to give SVG elements a default transform-box value of view-box (rather than trying to map border-box to view-box).
- Issue 48 had several resolutions:
- Resolved: Static transforms that overflow parent bounds do cause a scrollbar.
- Resolved: An animation that is in fill (finished, or not yet started) is treated same as static, for purposes of transform/bounds/scrollbars computation.
- Resolved: Animated transforms that go out of bounds MAY show a scrollbar during the animation.
- There was a proposed resolution of “Overflow bounds are computed at end of layout, can be increased but not decreased by the effects of paint-level things like transforms.” but the group decided to discuss over the lunch break.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
![[Photo: group photo of the CSS working group in San Francisco]](/Style/CSS/csswg-2016.jpg)
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