Minutes Seattle F2F Wednesday 2017-01-11 Part III: CSS Color, Backgrounds, Writing Modes, CSS Tables, Values & Units 4
CSS Color
- The issue of what happens to
rgb() etc with Working Color Spaces will be moved to another day when ChrisL & dino are available.
- Resolved: Add color computation section to color spec.
- The resolution of currentColor for color property will change from used value time to computed value time.
- Florian will test
border-color:transparent to see if implementation is different from the spec.
- Resolved: Add that if you transition to/from current color use numeric value
- Before the Color spec can include a reference to DCI P3 Chris will need to investigate how to get it to comply to the W3C’s normative reference policy.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Backgrounds
- There was a proposal to remove the 3 value syntax from object-position, transform-origin, perspective-origin, offset-position, mask-position, components of shape functions and radial gradients (basically everything except background-position).
- Resolved: three-value
position removed except for background-position
- The Chrome team will investigate if repeat-x/y properties can be removed. If not, they may have to be added to the spec (possibly without logical equivalents).
- Resolved: Add background-repeat-x/y longhands and mask-repeat-x/y longhands, mark them deprecated, and deal with the shorthand weirdness, possibly like dbaron proposed. Note: this resolution was rescinded in on the 2017-01-25 telecon
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Writing Modes
- Resolved: No interaction between
::first-letter and text-combine-upright (other than what’s already specified — that text-combine-upright can’t combine across element boundaries). The use case can be solved using markup and text-combine-upright: all if needed. (See issue)
- Resolved: Create Level 4 of Writing Modes as current draft, Level 3 to drop all at-risk items, publications TBD
Full Minutes || Specs Referenced: Writing Modes 3 and Writing Modes 4
CSS Tables
- Resolved: Publish new WD of css-tables
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Values & Units 4
Minutes Seattle F2F Wednesday 2017-01-11 Part II: Hyphenation, Text Decoration, Inline Layout & Initial Letter
Hyphenation
- There was a general sense that the least harmful behavior is to not hyphenate when there’s no language declared.
- zcorpan and myles will work together to see if it’s possible for browsers to standardize the behavior based on how much is already in the wild.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Text Decoration
- Resolved: defer issue 4
- Resolved: defer issue 3 to next level
- Issue 2 needs more investigation before a resolution can be reached. If it requires a change in initial value the change will have to occur in this level, but a new feature could be deferred.
- Resolved: We reject issue 14.
- Resolved: Reject issue 5 and follow up.
- Resolved: Undefined on issue #10.
- Resolved: Go with Ken Lunde’s suggestion for issue 13
- Resolved: Accept fixes to handle fixes in default UA stylesheet. (Issue 11 and issue 19)
- Resolved:
text-emphasis-position: [ over | under ] && [ right | left ]? (Issue 17)
- fantasai will reach out to Internationalization to see if there’s a use case for the left value in
text-emphasis-position.
- Resolved: Update spec to handle
sideways-lr/sideways-rl as rotated horizontal text (Issue 20)
- Resolved: Omitted
text-underline-position value defaults to auto. (Issue 18)
- Resolved: Split text-decoration-skip into longhands. (Issue 1 and issue 22)
- Resolved: In level 3, have
text-decoration-skip-ink. Move all other parts of skipping to level 4.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Inline Layout & Initial Letter
Minutes Seattle F2F Wednesday 2017-01-11 Part I: Transforms, Whitespace in a custom property in a variable reference, Geometry interfaces
Transforms
- The references to 4×4 matrices will stay in L1.
- There was agreement that transforms should apply to flex and grid.
- The spec will clarify that transform-origin’s resolved value is used.
- Resolved: add transform-origin-x/y/z to transforms levels 1 and (for z) 2, to address issue 29
- Chrome just committed a patch which resolves the issue titled ‘transform-origin: 0% not equivalent to 0px is confusing’
- Resolved: Add identity transform function to transforms level 2, interpolates with anything, to address this issue
- shane to add use counter to Chrome to collect frequency data on compatibility of change for issue 37
- The group had three proposed resolution to the transforms interpolation issue (issue 38)
- Run the transitions
- Define canonicalization and use the general available transform list and determine if to trigger a transition
- Similar to 2 but moves it to transitions
- There was originally a leaning to get author feedback to decide between a and c, but it was discovered that browsers are interoperable on a.
- Author feedback will still be sought in case there’s overwhelming consensus that c would be the expected behavior.
- Resolved: Resolve issue 38 on option A (run the transitions) from above.
- Resolved:
matrix() and matrix3d() should be the same primitive in <a href="https://drafts.csswg.org/css-transforms-1/#transform-primitives"this list
- Resolved: Perspective will interpolate to perspective, rather than to matrix, interpolated by the reciprocals of the lengths.
- Resolved: Follow the spec and match FF which means perspective with a value of 0 is invalid.
- Resolved: UAs must introduce near 0 clamping for perspective.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Whitespace in a custom property in a variable reference
- TabAtkins will create an example in the custom props specification so that everyone is parsing out the whitespace in a custom property as defined by the syntax specification.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Geometry Interfaces
- DomPointReadOnly will stay as-is for now.
- smfr brought up a few questions/ideas around DOM Quads, but there wasn’t time for a real discussion.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Telecon 2017-02-22
- There was general agreement that ChrisL’s proposed approach to trim Fonts 3 and take it to REC was a good way forward. (Member-only link to proposal). ChrisL will prepare a list of items that don’t have two implementations or don’t have sufficient tests and send it for review.
- TabAtkins will determine the most interoperable approach for order-modified document order in Flexbox and propose it to the group for resolution.
- No one was opposed to the ‘size’ shorthand for ‘width’/’height’, however there was very low implementer interest. Some of the low interest came from the complexity of using ‘size’ as it’s already used in the
@page rule. The discussion will be tabled until there’s implementer interest in using ‘size’ or a better name proposed.
- Resolved: Tie the color of the text shadow to the currentColor with spec text tbd.
- Resolved: Have the declaration block serialize as an empty string.
- Resolved: Define behaves as auto in CSS Sizing. TabAtkins and fantasai will write this. (In reference to this issue).
- TabAtkins will summarize his thoughts on GitHub on what makes a form control and the difference between using ‘behaves as’ and ‘computes to’ and the group will revisit next week.
Full Minutes
CSS Containment First Public Working Draft
The CSS Working Group has published a First Public Working Draft of CSS Containment.
This CSS module describes the contain property, which indicates that the element’s subtree is independent of the rest of the page. This enables heavy optimizations by user agents when used well.
Even though this is only the First Public Working Draft, the specification has spent quite some time maturing as an Editor Draft already, and is fairly stable. Detailed reviews and experiments by implementers are welcome, as we may try to move this forward to CR before too long.
Please send feedback by either filing an issue in GitHub (preferable) or sending mail to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-contain]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
Updated Working Drafts: CSS Display, CSS Sizing, CSS Box Alignment
The CSS Working Group has published several updated Working Drafts:
- CSS Display Module Level 3
-
This module describes how the CSS formatting box tree is generated from the document element tree and defines the display property that controls it. Additions since CSS2 include: a flow-root value to create a block formatting context root (BFC), a contents value to discard the element’s box but keep its children, inline list items, a run-in layout model slightly less wonky than the one proposed in CSS2.0. Significant changes since the last publication are listed in the changes section.
We anticipate this being the last draft before the transition to Candidate Recommendation, therefore this is the “last call” for comments.
- CSS Intrinsic and Extrinsic Sizing Module Level 3
- This module extends the CSS sizing properties with keywords that represent content-based “intrinsic” sizes and context-based “extrinsic” sizes, allowing CSS to more easily describe boxes that fit their content or fit into a particular layout context. Significant change ssince hte last publicaiton are listed in the changes section and include renaming the
fill keyword to stretch to match the similar stretch option in the alignment properties. Remaining work prior to Candidate Recommendation includes addressing issues in the extrinsic sizing section (which includes stretch) and handling replaced elements’ interaction with the intrinsic sizing keywords.
- CSS Box Alignment Module Level 3
- This module contains the features of CSS relating to the alignment of boxes within their containers in the various CSS box layout models: block layout, table layout, flex layout, and grid layout. This update incorporates several rounds of changes to the baseline alignment rules as well as the following syntactic changes:
- Dropped hyphen in
first-baseline and last-baseline. See discussion for rationale.
- Added
place-* as shorthands for align-* + justify-*.
- Dropped fallback alignment feature for distribution keywords; this is due to their incompatibility with shorthanding. Alternate syntaxes are under investigation in Issue 1002, along with a potential syntactic restriction on
safe/unsafe in Issue 1001 to allow better integration with the shorthands.
We are hoping to take this module to CR this year. In the meantime, we are looking for
- Reviews of baseline alignment and other details.
- Input on the open issues.
- More illustrations, if anyone wants to draw them. 🙂
- Any other feedback
As always, please send feedback by either filing an issue in GitHub (preferable) or sending mail to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-display], [css-sizing], [css-align]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
Minutes Telecon 2017-02-15
- Resolved: Publish FPWD of CSS Timing Functions.
- The short name will be css-timing.
- Resolved: Use
text-decoration-skip-ink with at least values of auto and none and have it cascade separate from shorthand. We will have some normative text describe how auto works, but we’ll figure the details out in the future. Do this in L4.
- Resolved: Republish CSS Speech CR.
- Resolved: The sentence beginning with “Items without an intrinsic ratio use,” is what we as a WG wanted to use. (In response to comments on issue 523)
- Resolved: Replaced elements with only one intrinsic size are sized as start in that dimension and stretch in the other.
- Resolved: Drop scoped styles from current level of CSS Cascade.
- There was a request to add tests to the Cascade test suite to help the spec get to PR.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2017-02-08
- Rossen informed the group of the proposal for the CSSWG to take over the parts of the SVG2.0 spec that are felt to be stable.
- ChrisL had edited the proposed scope of work into a draft update to the charter for review (available here)
- The arguments in favor of this approach centered on this group having the expertise to do the specification and having a need to see interdependencies resolved.
- Concerns raised include a concern that without a test suite it’s very hard to know what’s stable and that the group won’t be able to deliver on the spec if those planning to work on it are no longer available to work on it.
- Conversation will continue to answer more questions and come to a conclusion as to if the group will take on this work.
- Resolved: Restore the accidentally removed text from css-flexbox specifying how flex applies to table wrapper boxes (available here)
- There were three options to address the disparity between how CSS Align and CSS2.1 deal with last baseline alignment of scrollable boxes:
- if ‘overflow’ is not visible, use the bottom margin edge, ignoring the contents
- use the last baseline, but if overflow is not visible, then clamp that to bottom margin edge
- if overflow is not visible, scroll to the bottom then use the actual baseline
- Resolved: Republish CSS Align CR.
- Resolved: Add a warning note to all profile notes (mobile, print, tv) saying they are obsolete and if people want to see what the WG is doing they can go to the snapshot.
- Resolved: Stop linking to obsolete profile notes from the CSS snapshot.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2017-02-01
- Resolved:
speak: auto matches the AAM computation in how it takes visibility: hidden and display: none into consideration
- Resolved: New CR publication for CSS UI 3
- Instead of creating a new display property value for visually hiding an element while making it available for AT, fantasai believed that the speak property would solve the use case and proposed a few options to ensure it’s ready. Several people in the group indicated that they didn’t believe that speak would work as it was designed to work linearly (i.e. ebooks) not with the AT.
- Resolved: Do not add speak property to display module.
- Resolved: Leave
flow-root name as-is.
- Resolved: Transition to CR for CSS Display.
- There was a positive response to returning useful information from colorDepth/pixelDepth. Since this does have a high possibility of misuse/abuse, there was a desire to see the use cases and examples clearly spelled out before changing the spec. Discussion will continue on the github issue and then return to the group for resolution.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2017-01-25
- Resolved: Publish WD of CSS Sizing L3
- Florian was concerned that the current spec for the
line-height-step property would lead to an author accidentally getting the double height in a browser he/she didn’t test against due to a variation on the value of line-height:normal caused by each browser calculating it slightly differently.
- After some modifications, Florian’s proposal was clarified to specify that
line-height:normal is a TBD fixed value when the user sets line-height-step to anything other than initial. If this proposal does go forward the initial value of line-height-step should be none.
- The concerns with this proposal is that the authors may not know why something that works with
line-height:normal suddenly stops working.
- Conversation will continue on the github issue to try and reach consensus
- Though at the most recent F2F there was a resolution to add
background-repeat-x/y due to web usage several browser vendors didn’t want to add the property because they didn’t feel there was such a strong need. It is Chrome’s responsibility to gather more data to either persuade other vendors to implement it or to decide that they can remove it.
- Resolved: Do not spec
background-repeat-x/y for now
- TabAtkins will look into the index problem so that the 2017 snapshot can be published.
- There were concerns about the decision from the F2F to use a NOTE to maintain pending updates CSS2 not being the correct process approach. This conversation will continue on the mailing list as that’s a better forum for this type of conversation, but people were encouraged to actively reply on the list and to give specific alternate proposals.
Full Minutes
![[Photo: group photo of the CSS working group in San Francisco]](/Style/CSS/csswg-2016.jpg)
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