Resolutions 2008-05-14, 2008-05-21
- Reminder to Members to review charter
- fantasai posted proposed resolutions for most Backgrounds and Borders issues. Another issue was posted later. Some issues still need input, all need review.
- There’s some opposition to suggestion to change ‘background-origin’ to ‘background-box’.
- Percentage border widths will most likely be dropped due to complications in shrink-wrap and table situations and lack of use cases.
- Still waiting on Opera for module priority feedback for Charter.
- Resolved that Yahoo’s rep can attend the next F2F as an observer.
CSS Snapshot 2007 and CSS Namespaces
The W3C published a Last Call Working Draft of the CSS Snapshot 2007. If you are following the development of CSS and you haven’t read it yet, I recommend doing so. Its goal is to put the various specs in context and create a coherent picture of the current state of CSS. The deadline for comments is June 9th.
The W3C has also published a Candidate Recommendation of the CSS Namespaces module. This module has been implemented for years based on a 1999 draft spec, so the module is just starting to catch up with the times. The two major changes that implementors should be aware of are: prefixes are explicitly case-sensitive, in line with our resolution of CSS2.1’s case-sensitivity issue; and handling of empty-string namespaces has been clarified.
Resolutions 2008-05-07
Resolved
- CSS 2007 Snapshot will be published as Last Call
- Description of www-style to be updated so that the first paragraph reads:
This mailing list is for technical discussion on Cascading Style Sheets
(CSS) and its specifications. All posts to this list must be about the
development of the CSS specification itself. This list is also the
preferred place for discussing working drafts that are published by W3C’s
CSS Working Group.
Other topics
- Briefly discussed charter. Still waiting for feedback from Opera.
- Discussed CSS3 Fonts. John Daggett and Jason Cranford Teague want to merge
the CSS3 Web Fonts spec and the CSS3 Fonts spec because the CSS3 Fonts spec
needs to modify the font selection algorithm in WebFonts. Also, it seems only
about 20% of the functionality in WebFonts is needed in CSS, so that part
of the spec won’t be so long once trimmed. This would mean putting Web Fonts
as part of the CSS Charter; currently it is only in SVG’s charter. John and
Jason are having trouble contacting Chris Lilley.
- Discussed logo competition. Reviewed Jason’s “creative brief” of requirements
and guidelines for submissions. Several suggestions made about copyright
ownership, trademarkability, image formats and sizes, awards, and judging.
Current idea is to use an online voting process to narrow the field and let
the finalist be chosen by a group of judges considering but not bound to the
results of the online vote.
Full minutes Discuss on www-style
Resolutions 2008-04-23
Resolved
- The CSSWG would prefer for IRC logs to be hosted by W3C, but until W3C is capable of continuously logging the channel it is acceptable for them to be hosted by a third party.
- CSS Namespaces to be published as Candidate Recommendation.
caretRangeFromPoint to be added to CSSOM View and marked at-risk; the CSSOM spec will then be republished as LC.- (CSS2.1)ISSUE-35 (page-break-inside inheritance) proposal accepted.
- AOL will sponsor (host) CSS logo competition
- next F2F meeting in Cambridge, UK August 20-22
Other notes
- At least one member of the WG strongly desires a syntax for turning
off logging for a particular IRC statement.
- Request for implementors interest in various CSS modules sent out
yesterday (Tuesday). This does not leave much time for compiling
the report and getting feedback from www-style.
- Charter draft was updated, needs to be reviewed.
- John Daggett and Jason Teague plan to send CSS3 Fonts from LC to
WD: it’s not clear what it’s status is, there are no updates since
2002, and there are various requests for changes/features.
minutes, discuss
Resolutions 2008-04-16
Resolved
- CSS2.1 Issue 37 proposal accepted.
- Media Queries will be published as Last Call Working Draft as soon as the W3C publishing moratorium ends.
- ISSUE-35 (CSS2.1) proposal accepted.
Other notes
- A lot of time was spent discussing how the chairs want to use Tracker to track the WG’s activity. There was an extensive discussion regarding the intent of the process, the concern over potential overhead for editors, and specific suggestion(s) to the process. See minutes (bottom) for the chair’s proposal.
- The CSSWG charter was discussed, in particular the wording on expected participation time requirements (1-2 days per week) and on relationships with other W3C groups.
- (CSS2.1) ISSUE-35 was discussed briefly, and the discussion postponed to the next week.
Minutes, discuss
Notes and Resolutions 2008-04-09
-
Discussed media queries, should be ready for LC soon, but still has a couple open issue. Main one is whether to use
@media (portrait) { ... }
@media (landscape) { ... }
or
@media (orientation: portrait) { ... }
@media (orientation: landscape) { ... }
-
Discussed CSS2.1 Issue 8. Anne needs to come up with better wording before we discuss the two wording proposals. Seem to have agreement on the end result.
-
Discussed CSS2.1 Issue 24. Interest in making {(['" matching style sheet global, need a wording proposal to continue discussion.
-
Resolved: For CSS2.1 Issue 31 David Baron’s proposal is accepted.
-
Resolved: For (CSS2.1) ISSUE-1, second wording proposal is accepted:
Insert before "It is recommended that the reference pixel be..."
the sentence "It is recommended that the pixel unit refer to
the whole number of device pixels that best approximates the
reference pixel."
-
Resolved: Add John Daggett (Mozilla Corporation) as CSS3 Fonts module editor.
Full minutes
Resolutions 2008-03 San Diego Part VI: CSSOM
CSSOM View
CSSOM
-
Noted: General agreement that the current CSSOM is badly designed and should be extended, but standardizing existing interfaces is the priority right now.
-
Resolved: CSS specs below CR level should add canonicalization info to their property definitions once a canonicalization table for existing properties has been created.
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Resolved: If the CSSWG chooses to specify CSSOM interfaces for editors, that will be a separate spec from the main CSSOM.
Resolutions 2008-03 San Diego Part V: Future Features
Highly experimental brainstorming-level stuff. No resolutions, just notes.
Tree List Styles
Discussed tree lists styling prompted by Andrew Fedoniouk.
-
Noted: Solution should satisfy 80-90% case; no point in adopting if it only solves 10%.
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Noted: Designers will want control over color, width, style of lines. Using ‘outline’ or ‘border’ precludes giving the element a real outline or border.
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Idea: A pseudo-element could provide a place to put styling.
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Idea: One possible model is each list item has a T-shaped or L-shaped marker that connects with the previous.
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Idea: Another possible model is each list item has a horizontal bar marker and the vertical line belongs to the parent.
Multi-Style Elements (aka Collapsible Elements)
Idea was to have two pseudo-classes, one :normal and one :alternate. UA toggles between styles. (N styles also possible.)
Existence of the pseudos makes the element toggleable. There were strong reservations about that.
Bert’s writeup is still Member’s only.
Scriptable Selectors
Idea was that a selector accepts a JavaScript function that returns true or false, determining whether the selector matches or not. VERY strong reservations about this from implementors: executing functions during selector matching is scary, particularly if those functions are allowed to modify the elements during matching!
Alternate idea is to define a set of tokens on the element node, allow scripts to add and remove tokens, and match against that set.. thereby avoiding the execution of any functions during style matching.
Constants
Clear use case for importing colors from a site-wide style sheet. CSSWG wants more concrete use cases for anything beyond that.
fantasai points to webstandards.org comments and suggests macros for selectors, values, and declaration sets would fulfill most requests there.
CSSWG will post a simple proposal macros for values only, and see if that will cause web designers to post real examples of where more powerful macros are needed.
Changing the Subject of the Selector (Parent Selector)
Suggested to add this to Selectors 4. Need implementors’ “strong interest”.
text-orientation
Steve reports on conclusions from joint meeting with Paul and fantasai: plan is to introduce text-orientation, which operates on runs of tex–unlike XSLFO/SVG’s glyph-orientation, which operates on individual glyphs. Glyph-orientation’s behavior causes characters to be in the wrong order for some of its values. text-orientation will take keywords for common effects in vertical text.
Resolutions 2008-03 San Diego Part IV: Box Model
Box Model Module
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Noted: It was proposed that the overflow and marquee properties be split off to form their own module. These properties are needed by the Mobile Profile and are reasonably independent of the box model details. Splitting them off allows them to move forward to CR without being held back by the rest of the box module, which is quite complex and will need significantly more review. There seemed to be consensus on this idea, but no formal resolution was made.
Box-sizing
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Noted: fantasai’s proposal for adding box-sizing keywords to the ‘width’ and ‘height’ properties was discussed. Most of the working group was strongly in favor, 1/2 of one company’s representation was opposed. No resolution was recorded wrt adopting the proposal.
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Resolved:: That should the proposal be adopted, its keywords must be consistent with box-sizing.
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Noted: That the proposed keywords are applied to min-width, max-width, width, min-height, max-height, and height.
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Noted: That the proposed keywords, like box-sizing, have no effect on the behavior of auto, fit-content, min-content, max-content, and none (max-width/height only) values for these properties.
Centering
There was much discussion of horizontal and vertical centering, but no resolution on the issue. The discussion closed with fantasai and Alex assigned to write concrete proposals for horizontal and vertical alignment, respectively.
For horizontal centering, there seem to be two distinct use cases:
- Standardizing CSS syntax equivalent to the
<CENTER> tag. The <CENTER> tag centers all its children, but not itself, and this centering behavior is inherited.
- Centering a single element, such as a table. This use case requires centering the element and preferably not centering its children. Auto margins can handle some but not all of these cases.
For vertical centering, it was agreed that alignment affects the element’s children (because there’s no way to center an element
in its parent without taking it out of the normal flow). Also, it was agreed that vertical alignment of an element’s children
should cause it to create a new block formatting context. This greatly simplifies things by avoiding margin-collapsing and float
complications. The default value of the new property will need to be a special value that doesn’t turn the block into a BFC.
Page Breaking
A proposal to change the way page-break-inside affects descendent elements was discussed.
Advanced Layout Module
-
Bert reported that designers want non-rectangular regions, to put images in corners or in the center. However, auto-sizing non-rectangular slots (such as a C shape that has as much text above as below) is very difficult. In the interest of moving forward and getting implementations, fantasai suggested leaving the slots rectangular for this version.
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Resolved: Rename CSS Advanced Layout Module to CSS Template Layout Module.
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Noted: To avoid overlapping constraints, width and height should not apply to slots, only to columns and rows respectively.
Resolutions 2008-03 San Diego Part III: Syntax and Selectors
Spaces Inside :nth-child Expressions
-
Resolved: David Baron’s proposal accepted as editorially amended by fantasai.
Rationale:
Authors are used to CSS allowing spaces almost everywhere, and will most likely expect them to work here as well. Also calc() will either allow or require spaces, and :nth-child()‘s syntax should be consistent with that.
Attribute Selectors
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Resolved:: Copy attribute selector wording from Selectors into CSS2.1 to resolve incompatibility.
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Resolved:: *=, ~=, ^=, $= all accept the empty string, but match nothing. Note that this overrides a previous resolution which stated that such attribute selectors are invalid.
Rationale:: These selectors are meaningless. This resolution matches existing implementations for ~=, which was introduced in CSS2.1, and makes *=, ^=, and $=, which were introduced in Level 3, consistent with that.
[Note:
see also Alan Gresley’s comment which was posted in response to this resolution]
CSS2.1 Syntax
-
Issues 24 and 32 were discussed, but no resolution was reached.
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Resolved: A mismatched close brace in a style attribute is treated as an invalid token. It does not terminate the style attribute’s style data.
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