Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

<clown> agenda: this

<scribe> scribe: joanie

ISSUE-1029/ACTION-2089 (Cynthia) Check for value events for splitters in UIA.

<clown> issue-1029

<trackbot> issue-1029 -- Add mappings for interactive separator (window splitter). -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1029

JS: I really want to close this issue.
... Which is the different mappings for hr versus splitter versus focusable splitter.

<clown> action-2089?

<trackbot> action-2089 -- Cynthia Shelly to Double check potential value events on windows when window-splitter changes position. -- due 2016-07-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2089

JS: There are two actions left.
... One for Cynthia.

<cyns> Thumb events: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee671652(v=vs.85).aspx#RequiredTextEvents

<cyns> bounding rectangle change event *might* get you what you're looking for?

CS: The interactive splitter is a thumb.
... The thumb isn't exactly tied to the window it's moving.
... There's a bounding rectangle event that changes when you move the splitter.

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-separator

CS: Which I suspect is not what you're asking about.

JS: Ok, what do we want to put in the mapping?

CS: We don't have a value property.
... You can tell where the splitter has moved to.
... From which you can derive the value.
... But that would be work on the AT side.

JD: Could the user agent do the calculation?

CS: I think I would have a hard time convincing developers to do that.
... They would probably want to add features to UIA instead.
... What are you looking for Joanie?

JD: My platform is fine because authors have to provide the values and my platform has a place to put those values.

https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#separator

CS: UIA has two different kind of values.
... And valuenow is only supported on things with ranges.
... So putting a range value on a splitter seems bizarre.

JD: Not to me.

CS: So we'd have to change the mapping of valuenow if it's on a splitter.

JD: (Explanation of why values are needed on her platform)

CS: When I looked last, there didn't seem to be a need for the current value.

JS: The spec says that if the separator is focusable, authors MUST set the value of valuenow.
... And authors SHOULD set the value of valuemin and valuemax.

CS: We could stick it in range value.
... I'm just not sure how useful or usable it's going to be.
... Since the mapping should just happen, I can play with it now and see how it works.

JS: This might come up again when we get to testing.

CS: I think that aria-valuenow is used, it will automatically get mapped.

JS: That leads me to believe that I don't need to do anything to the mapping spec.

CS: For UIA, I don't think you do need to do anything.

JS: Bryan, do you have a test case in the APG yet?

BG: No.

JS: Let me do a quick check to see what Dojo does.
... Because I know they have them.

<clown> http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dijit/tests/layout/test_SplitContainer.html

JS: The above URL has the test case.
... Looking at it with the inspector....
... I can see elements for the container.
... Oh, the splitter comes into existence when I click on it.
... But it has nothing on it.
... The top value keeps changing.

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-group

(Side discussion about group and pane)

<clown> action-2089

<trackbot> action-2089 -- Cynthia Shelly to Double check potential value events on windows when window-splitter changes position. -- due 2016-07-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2089

CS: I cannot guarantee Narrator is going to do anything useful with the valuenow, but we'll see.

JS: I'm making a note in the action.
... And I'm going to close the action unless anyone objects.

CS: Works for me.

ISSUE-1029/ACTION-2075 (Joanie) Check AXAPI mappings of separator role.

JD: I just commented on the action.

<clown> action-2075

<trackbot> action-2075 -- Joanmarie Diggs to AXAPI mapping of role="separator", when it is a widget (window splitter). -- due 2016-06-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2075

JS: I'm inclined to close this as well, and nothing needs to change in the Core AAM.
... Objections?

JD: No. If it turns out we need to say anything in the mapping spec regarding value, we can create a new action.

JS: It's probably AXValue.

JD: That would be my guess.

JS: This action is closed.
... That means the issue is now closable too. Finally.

ISSUE-676/ACTION-2083 (Joanie/Joseph) Identify ATK/AT-SPI states in the mappings

JD: I need another couple of weeks.

<clown> issue-676?

<trackbot> issue-676 -- Is it useful to identify MSAA+IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI actions, interfaces, and relations in the mappings? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/676

action-2083

<trackbot> action-2083 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Review and update ATK/AT-SPI2 states in Core AAM -- due 2016-06-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2083

JS: I have a question.
... I want to associate this action with issue-676.
... And close issue-1033 as a duplicate.
... Is that ok with you?

JD: Sure.

ISSUE-540: Section describing AAPI differences.

<clown> issue-540

<trackbot> issue-540 -- Should the UAIG have a section to describe the API differences -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/540

JS: I think this one is dead too.
... Jason Kiss raised this a while ago.
... Various people went off and wrote things.

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#comparing-accessibility-apis

JS: All the actions associated with this issue are done.
... The URL above has the relevant content.
... I'm inclined to close this as complete.
... Does anyone think otherwise?

CS: Let me look at it a bit more.
... I think it's fine.

JS: Anyone else want to keep it open?
... Hearing no objections, I'm closing it.

Triage issues/actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23

<clown> issue-541?

<trackbot> issue-541 -- Text Alt Comp too specific to ARIA attributes (aria-valuetext and aria-valuenow) -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/541

JS: Aside from being in the wrong place.... James Craig raised this back in 2012.
... He said it's too specific.
... He's mostly worried about aria-valuenow and aria-valuetext.
... He proposes we change the text to reflect range.
... I thought I had made this change independent of this issue.

CS: I'm hesitant to make significant changes to the AccName spec.

JS: (Reads text from spec)
... It's almost the same as what James had suggested.

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_name#step2E

JS: URL is above.
... It's the fourth bullet James was concerned about.

https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#step2E

<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/541

JD: Corrected (slightly) direct URL above.

JS: His language is in issue-541.

JD: Text of 4th bullet If the embedded control has role range (e.g., a spinbutton or slider):

If the aria-valuetext property is present, return its value,

Otherwise, if the aria-valuenow property is present, return its value,

Otherwise, use the value as specified by a host language attribute.

<clown> "If the embedded control is a range (e.g., a spinbutton or slider), use the value of the aria-valuetext attribute if available, or otherwise the value of the aria-valuenow attribute."

JS: Above is the text James suggested.

JD: Wow, it is nearly identical. Great minds and all that.

JS: I'm going to close this issue then.

issue-587

<trackbot> issue-587 -- Consider allowing the aria-selected state on any focusable element, or add a new attr like aria-active or aria-current -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/587

JS: This one can probably be closed.
... It goes way back to 2013.
... Steve Faulkner wanted state selected on more elements, e.g. to identicate the current item in a table of contents.
... We now have aria-current.

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCurrent

JS: We have mappings for it. I think it's well-documented in the spec.
... Therefore I don't think we need this issue any more.
... It has about seven actions which are all closed.
... So I think it's done.
... Objections to closing it?

<crickets>

JS: Closed.

issue-594

<trackbot> issue-594 -- tablist role has implicit live region mapping in UIA guide -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/594

JS: This is back when we called it the User Agent Implementation Guide.
... Back then tablist was a live region.

<clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=896400

JS: Marco pointed it out (see above bugzilla link).
... And they changed it to not be a live region any more.

CS: Sounds done.

JS: (Reads comments from bug)

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-tablist

JS: There are a bunch of patches and it's marked RESOLVED FIXED.
... Looking at the Core AAM, it's not mapped/exposed as a live region.

<clown> action-1435

<trackbot> action-1435 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Edit the ia2 and atk/at-spi entries for role tablist to remove the live region aspects of the mapping. -- due 2014-05-13 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1435

JS: I have a note in action-1435.
... I need this change back in may of 2014.
... But I kept the issue open because there are test cases that pass back in ARIA 1.0.
... So those test cases would have to change.
... I don't think we're going to test this again.

CS: If the test cases are still hanging around, then they'll fail.
... So we need to update the test cases.
... Assign that to me.

<clown> ACTION: cynthia to adjust IA2 and ATK test cases for role tablist to remove the test of the liveregion properties as they are no longer supported. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/07/19-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2101 - Adjust ia2 and atk test cases for role tablist to remove the test of the liveregion properties as they are no longer supported. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2016-07-26].

<clown> action-2101

<trackbot> action-2101 -- Cynthia Shelly to Adjust ia2 and atk test cases for role tablist to remove the test of the liveregion properties as they are no longer supported. -- due 2016-07-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2101

CS: Give me a month.

JS: Ok. And I'll associate it with the test-plan product.

CS: Sure.

JS: I'm going to close the issue.

issue-609

<trackbot> issue-609 -- Text Alt Comp section does not explicitly disallow empty strings as a valid label -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/609

JS: This is another raised by James Craig about AccName.
... James wants verbiage to say that empty labels are not valid.
... I tend to agree with him.

<clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=112842

JS: An empty string is not a name.
... And he wants to fall back on title.
... But that's already in the name computation.
... Fred wants to know if labels which consist of nothing but whitespace are legitimate accessible names.
... I'm tempted to say "no".

CS: I think disallowing empty strings for aria-label makes perfect sense.

(Discussion about which spec such a prohibition would belong)

JD: And we're in theory feature-frozen for the ARIA spec.

JS: I'm going to think about this a bit more.

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Found Scribe: joanie
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Default Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly
Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer Bryan_Garaventa Cynthia_Shelly
Found Date: 19 Jul 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/07/19-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items: cynthia

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