See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 16 September 2015
<allanj> Agenda+ housekeeping (5 minutes)
<laura> yes
<allanj> http://www.w3.org/2008/04/scribe.html
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribing_Commands_and_Related_Info
<Wayne> scribe: wayne
<Alan_Smith> Started with intros for new attendees.
Introduced three new attendees, Bruce, Srini, Cheri.
Low Vision runs the from near normal Blindness: It is uncorrectable loss of vision.
<Srini> Wiki link for quick ref: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Definitions_of_Low_Vision
Functional Limitation: Size, Color/Contrast, Field Loss links to size, Blur/Haze, Extreme Light Sensitivity, Fatigue
<allanj> "Low vision means that even with regular glasses, contact lenses, medicine, or surgery, people find everyday tasks difficult to do." - National Eye Institute
<allanj> There are many medical conditions that cause vision problems and some degrees of vision loss have legal implications. Low vision runs the gamut from near perfect vision to near blindness. What we are concerned about are the functional limitations of people with non-correctable impaired vision accessing content visually.
<allanj> The functional limitations can be grouped in to 6 areas (with lots of overlap and commingling)
<allanj> 1. size limitations (acuity) - folks need things bigger or smaller, or all the same size, or closer together/farther apart (also applies to fonts - stroke width, bold, kerning, leading)
<allanj> 2. color/contrast - can't see color, see colors differently, need higher or lower contrast (brightness)
<allanj> 3. field loss - have a restricted (central, donut, spotty, left/right) view of the world. Ties closely to size (what you can see within the size of the places in your field that see). (applies to word wrapping. having to scroll right and left is an developer induced fieldloss]
<allanj> 4. Blur / Haze (glare) – Relates to size, contrast and brightness. Often best served with light on dark.
<allanj> 5. Extreme Light Sensitivity – color, brightness, contrast relate, but all in low light.
<allanj> 6. Fatigue: All people with low vision experience fatigue rapidly. This calls for the most comfortable environment possible. Most people will confide after knowing you a while that they have started many more books then they have finished.
<allanj> Comingling / combinatorics example
<allanj> Size: Size can be a function of acuity or other interference like haze / glare that reduces clarity that can be enhanced by high contrast thus requiring increased size. Field loss without loss without acuity loss can require limited line length.
<allanj> cannot read a newspaper from 16in (40 cm). This is a good working definition of low vision requiring larger print. (Legge)
<allanj> ACTION: jim to put low vision overview on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/16-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Put low vision overview on the wiki [on Jim Allan - due 2015-09-23].
<jon_avila> scribe: jon_avila
awk: talk about user needs and where we are trying to get to.
<AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
awk: first deliverable would a
user requirements document for low vision users.
... have template in github and update with information as we
go along. Make sure we capture all the info we know and the
extent possible what we don't know enough about so we can do
some research by talking to others who are not involved with TF
so we can be comprehensive.
<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf
<AWK> That is the GitHub repo for the group
awk: we have a requirements and index doc. The requirements doc is the one we are going to build on.
<AWK> Use cases on wiki: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/User_stories_-_use_cases
awk: take a look at use cases
document.
... want to refine some of these broad topics.
alan: wanted to know if he could add a pdf use case on mobile. Would that be ok?
<bruce_bailey> h+
awk: goal of user story we want to describe what the user needs in a technology independent way. Some may relate to know technologies.
<allanj> close action-3 see https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Overview_of_Low_Vision
srini: asked about colors and contrast of controls like sliders, would be an acceptable as a use case?
<Srini> controls of corousals
awk: I think you are saying controls and components beyond text is an issue.
* Yes, good example.
<Srini> yes.
jim: contrast beyond text is good topic
<AWK> User issue: users have difficulty with controls where WCAG doesn't have color contrast requirements and are too-low contrast to use effectively, such as is common with sliders.
jim: tooltips that are part of web pages aren't part of browser zoom because it is controlled by system.
laura: large cursor can obscure tooltips so they are not readable
wayne: insertion point during caret browsing is almost invisible
call_in user 3: does support caret width from OS
<allanj> User issue: The default browser content controls (slider, checkboxes, etc. provided by the browsers) do not meet WCAG color contrast guidelines
wayne: not supported across browsers
awk: end user detriment is what we are trying to capture for user needs.
wayne: another thing that UAAG captured - when you enlarge you lose your place in the document.
alan: would these types of items be valued as listing in a use case? We could rattle on things we have experienced so we capture them.
awk: helpful if you do - indicate
what you put in the document to make it clear that you entered
it.
... make sense to put name by user story. At some point we will
strip out but now it is helpful.
<Srini> Question: should we be having a page listing accessibility features and assistive technologies that users with low vision do use? If yes, I could volunteer to put together
jim: should we get dialog going on wiki or on list?
awk: Something that is up to the group.
<ChuckOp> Email
<Srini> Wiki but email notification
wayne: have a stylesheet that linearizes W3C wiki pages.
* who is call-in user 3?
<ChuckOp> (but I don't appear to be getting LVTF list messages, can someone add me?
srini: should we have a page that capture that features and AT that are used by people with low vision?
awk: sounds like a good idea.
call-in user 3: would he wiki be our working area or reference
awk: wiki would be staging area
of documents
... resource page for tools and techniques on the wiki that
Srini proposed sounds good.
<Srini> I would go ahead and create then.
<allanj> close item 1
<allanj> close item 2
awk: plan is to use case page on wiki as basis for the discussion.
jim: good thing to make them technology agnostic, etc.
wayne: put list of coping
strategies that work for people with LV on this list.
... may show us pattern - some may not generalize to
strategies
bruce: knowing what people use as
work around is useful
... would like someone to review example he provided to see if
it already violations exist SC.
awk: unless you are sure that it
is already a WCAG violation - go ahead and put it down. May
also be a failure but there is not enough guidance around it.
Don't worry about which way it fails - write it down.
... will send reminder to list. Ask for next meeting is for
everyone to take a look at user stories/use cases and make sure
we understand them and they are clear and we add to the ones
that are there.
alan: good approach -- will talk to others who have low vision and take some notes.
chuck: aging is a disability that
is acquired.
... personal opinion that lack of contrast is a must troubling
issue that I see.
I second the issue with contrast.
<allanj> the aging population generally does not self identify as disabled or low vision. They just don't see well.
and the aging population often see themselves as the issue not the environment
<laura> bye
<AWK> trackbot, make minutes
<trackbot> Sorry, AWK, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
<AWK> trackbot, end meeting
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