Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference

22 Apr 2015

See also: IRC log


glennd, Bill_Rose, paul_higgs, azamlerc, ldaigle, digitaldale, NiloMitra, MarkVickers, ddavis


<ddavis> trackbot, start meeting

<glennd> thank you

<trackbot> Date: 22 April 2015

<ddavis> Grrrr

Glenn called the meeting to order at 11:04

Glenn did a role call.

<azamlerc> Hi everyone! Andrew Zamler-Carhart at Cisco.

Bill Rose taking notes

<ldaigle> maybe did not leave last time?

<glennd> http://www.w3.org/2015/04/08-webtv-minutes.html

<ddavis> scribenick: Bill_Rose

Glenn posted link to the notes. Minutes were approved without change.

<glennd> Use Review: https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF/UseCases/Content_Capture#Use_Cases

Glenn led a discussion on Content Capture Use Cases (see link)

Question: Discussing professional, non-prof or both?

Glenn: Lines are blurred. There are still differences but hard to draw a line between.

Dale: IDs are generated for downstream consumption and there are differences in consumption between pro and amature.

Glenn: Looking at YouTube there is no hard line in consumption and workflows to post and consume.

Dale: The identifiers are produced for a usage. The association of that data may be heavier in pro compared to consumer.

Glenn: Proposed approach - lump together until/unless a difference is identified.

Dale: Good approach.

Glenn: Review Content Capture UCs
... UC-1 Basic Video Asset Capture

Assumes fixed bit-rate and resolution; stored on device; single file or container with both audio and video with metadata about video, camera, capture event, user, etc.

Glen: Step 5 in description is a mistake and should not be included.

Glenn: Typically ID is added (e.g. YouTube) at time of publication. Similar to adding SKU # by the store before shelving.
... Some services can capture live video, upload to service for posting. ID is added by service.

Correction: Some "users" can capture live video +"e.g. on a phone"...

Glenn: This happens in near real time.

Dale: Can see this happening in ad insertion situation.

Glenn: Can also happen in social environment - e.g. a sports event, etc., where each stream uploaded by individuals are all associated with the same event but get different IDs added due to different user captures.
... Capture-UC-2 Assigning a unique content identifier at asset capture
... User captures a/v scene. Device obtains a content ID from an issuing service.

Dale: Might the ID add an ID (if it does not have connection to an issuing service) and later get a unique ID from the service?

Glenn: A UUID could be issued to the camera by an issuing authority that is used by the camera to generate a unique content ID for each video it records.

Dale: There could be multiple delegations - YouTube, Facebook, EIDR, etc. Device could be pre-registered for each service it posts to.
... Could this be extended to assemblages of content - associated text, etc., which becomes part of the "content".

Glenn: That might be an extension, more sophisticated use case
... Think of this as a network of associated content where multiple streams can be assembled into a composite stream for final consumption

Dale: All of the various streams are associated through the IDs for potential use in a composite - e.g. tributary streams that can be assembled into final composited stream - potentially at the end under direction of some actor - client, etc.

Glenn: New actor for the extended discussion above - the composer, sponsor, user, etc., that does the composing function to collect and bundle the tributary streams for consumption.

<scribe> ACTION: Item to Create new UC for the composite stream concept discussed above. Include new actor. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webtv-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Error finding 'Item'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/users>.

Andrew: Do we need to describe how the compositing process would work including the Identifiers that allow different composites to be uniquely identified

Glenn: Think it is necessary to identify the composites uniquely.

Andrew: 2 ways to look at it: Things useful to editor(s) and those that are useful to the user.

Glenn: gets into rights management which is out of scope.

Bill Rose: User could subscribe to a particular social user's composite.

Glenn: Could be done by using a prefix associated with that social user.

<scribe> ACTION: Item to Dale, Andrew, Bill - write UC to describe the scenarios we discussed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webtv-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Error finding 'Item'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/users>.

Leslie: Do we need to have a concept of an identifier of a user/composer versus the identifier of a composite. Seem to be mixing the two.

Glenn: Can have multiple prefixes for multiple '


<ldaigle> agree re. privacy

Glenn: Need to look at privacy here as well. How do we describe this to include privacy. Instinct is there will be 2 concepts - globally unique prefixes (permanent) and locally unique prefixes that can be 'thrown away"


Glenn: Think of it as the difference between a cell phone that is bound by phone # to the user and a throw away phone that is only loosely bound to the user not the users permanent phone #.

Andrew - Que: How do you distinguish between several "takes" of the same scene versus different events on the same camera?

Glenn: Opportunity to explore how this could be handled but it is out of scope for GGIE.

<scribe> ACTION: Item to Andrew - write up the question (above) for posting. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webtv-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Error finding 'Item'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/users>.

Glenn: Capture-UC-3 Fingerprinting and associating a content identifier at asset capture

<ldaigle> @Bill — are you unmuted?

I am muted

<azamlerc> Folks, I need to run... I'll write up some of the questions that I've raised. Cheers!

<ldaigle> who just sneezed....

<digitaldale> I will work to document the use case

<ldaigle> and sniffed

Glenn: UC-3 expands on UC-2 by generating a digital fingerprint and registering it along with the unique content ID
... Content ID is obtained from the issuing authority which is accitated with the fingerprint. Not a simple hash.
... Can generate same video fingerprint even with different audio or video encodings
... Why not a watermark? For final products watermarks work well. But not appropriate for capture because watermarks can alter the original capture that could degrade the capture. Fingerprint does not.

<digitaldale> watermarking may be better introduced downstream which is tied to a commecial registration authority such as EIDR or AD-ID

Glenn: Downstream services can still add watermark for many reasons but for capture case a fingerprint might be more useful/acceptable.
... Gap identied in each UC is there is no issuing authority for the Content Identifier, prefixes, etc. that can be referenced for these purposes.

<digitaldale> this way there would not need to be watermark extraction or rewatermarking if the watermark is introduced at the capture device and then reinserted later downstream

Glenn: In UC-3, no standardized fingerprint algorithm for this purpose, and no issuing authority that can register the fingerprint with the content ID
... Any other business?

Daniel: Want to encourage more participation in this work. If anyone has any ideas to improve/broaden participation let us know. Would like to do a monthly mailing on the activities

Que: Can we alert User Groups (Community Groups) to this work?

Daniel: Will look into how this can be done.

Perhaps LinkedIn Groups?

<ddavis> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF

<ddavis> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page

<ddavis> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF#Participation

Glenn: Next meeting is scheduled for May 6th which coincides with W3C meetings in Paris. Should we skip that meeting or reschedule?
... Propose skip May 6th and schedule May 20th as next meeting.

paul_higgs: If not addressing rights management, how about policy relating to RM?

<ldaigle> LInked Content Coalition

Glenn: If we describe how rich metadata could be associated with content, that could be used to point/link to RM services, etc.

Daniel: On administration, we will be shifting to WebEx sometime in June so the bridge will be changing around June.

<ldaigle> thanks! bye.

Glenn: Next meeting May 20th. Closed the meeting at 12:24 ET.

<ddavis> Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference: GGIE TF

<ddavis> Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference - GGIE TF

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Item to Andrew - write up the question (above) for posting. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webtv-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Item to Create new UC for the composite stream concept discussed above. Include new actor. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Item to Dale, Andrew, Bill - write UC to describe the scenarios we discussed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webtv-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]

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Present: glennd Bill_Rose paul_higgs azamlerc ldaigle digitaldale NiloMitra MarkVickers ddavis
Regrets: Kaz
Found Date: 22 Apr 2015
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