IRC log of webtv on 2015-04-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:04:11 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webtv
15:04:11 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:04:14 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #webtv
15:04:19 [ddavis]
trackbot, start meeting
15:04:21 [glennd]
thank you
15:04:21 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:04:23 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
15:04:23 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:04:24 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference
15:04:24 [trackbot]
Date: 22 April 2015
15:04:39 [ddavis]
zakim, this will be WEBTV1
15:04:41 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ddavis
15:04:47 [ddavis]
zakim, this is WEBTV1
15:04:47 [Zakim]
sorry, ddavis, I do not see a conference named 'WEBTV1' in progress or scheduled at this time
15:04:50 [ddavis]
zakim, this is WEBTV
15:04:50 [Zakim]
sorry, ddavis, I do not see a conference named 'WEBTV' in progress or scheduled at this time
15:04:58 [ddavis]
zakim, this will be WEBTV
15:04:58 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ddavis
15:05:03 [ddavis]
15:05:31 [paul_higgs]
paul_higgs has joined #webtv
15:05:34 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn called the meeting to order at 11:04
15:06:07 [azamlerc]
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15:06:16 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn did a role call.
15:06:22 [azamlerc]
Hi everyone! Andrew Zamler-Carhart at Cisco.
15:07:27 [ddavis]
zakim, this will be WEBTV2
15:07:28 [Zakim]
ok, ddavis; I see WEBT_GGIE TF()11:00AM scheduled to start 7 minutes ago
15:07:56 [Bill_Rose]
Bill Rose taking notes
15:08:14 [ldaigle]
maybe did not leave last time?
15:08:57 [glennd]
15:08:59 [ddavis]
scribenick: Bill_Rose
15:09:13 [ddavis]
Regrets: Kaz
15:09:21 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn posted link to the notes. Minutes were approved without change.
15:09:24 [ddavis]
Chair: Glenn_Deen
15:09:32 [glennd]
Use Review:
15:11:23 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn led a discussion on Content Capture Use Cases (see link)
15:11:46 [Bill_Rose]
Question: Discussing professional, non-prof or both?
15:12:47 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Lines are blurred. There are still differences but hard to draw a line between.
15:13:33 [Bill_Rose]
Dale: IDs are generated for downstream consumption and there are differences in consumption between pro and amature.
15:14:34 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Looking at YouTube there is no hard line in consumption and workflows to post and consume.
15:15:23 [Bill_Rose]
Dale: The identifiers are produced for a usage. The association of that data may be heavier in pro compared to consumer.
15:15:57 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Proposed approach - lump together until/unless a difference is identified.
15:16:20 [Bill_Rose]
Dale: Good approach.
15:16:47 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Review Content Capture UCs
15:17:15 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: UC-1 Basic Video Asset Capture
15:19:42 [Bill_Rose]
Assumes fixed bit-rate and resolution; stored on device; single file or container with both audio and video with metadata about video, camera, capture event, user, etc.
15:20:21 [Bill_Rose]
Glen: Step 5 in description is a mistake and should not be included.
15:20:42 [MarkVickers]
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15:21:58 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Typically ID is added (e.g. YouTube) at time of publication. Similar to adding SKU # by the store before shelving.
15:22:43 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Some services can capture live video, upload to service for posting. ID is added by service.
15:23:59 [Bill_Rose]
Correction: Some "users" can capture live video +"e.g. on a phone"...
15:24:46 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: This happens in near real time.
15:25:34 [Bill_Rose]
Dale: Can see this happening in ad insertion situation.
15:27:10 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Can also happen in social environment - e.g. a sports event, etc., where each stream uploaded by individuals are all associated with the same event but get different IDs added due to different user captures.
15:27:40 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Capture-UC-2 Assigning a unique content identifier at asset capture
15:28:48 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: User captures a/v scene. Device obtains a content ID from an issuing service.
15:29:33 [Bill_Rose]
Dale: Might the ID add an ID (if it does not have connection to an issuing service) and later get a unique ID from the service?
15:31:29 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: A UUID could be issued to the camera by an issuing authority that is used by the camera to generate a unique content ID for each video it records.
15:32:38 [MarkVickers]
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15:32:49 [Bill_Rose]
Dale: There could be multiple delegations - YouTube, Facebook, EIDR, etc. Device could be pre-registered for each service it posts to.
15:34:47 [Bill_Rose]
Dale: Could this be extended to assemblages of content - associated text, etc., which becomes part of the "content".
15:35:23 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: That might be an extension, more sophisticated use case
15:37:25 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Think of this as a network of associated content where multiple streams can be assembled into a composite stream for final consumption
15:40:01 [Bill_Rose]
Dale: All of the various streams are associated through the IDs for potential use in a composite - e.g. tributary streams that can be assembled into final composited stream - potentially at the end under direction of some actor - client, etc.
15:42:11 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: New actor for the extended discussion above - the composer, sponsor, user, etc., that does the composing function to collect and bundle the tributary streams for consumption.
15:42:59 [Bill_Rose]
Action Item: Create new UC for the composite stream concept discussed above. Include new actor.
15:42:59 [trackbot]
Error finding 'Item'. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
15:44:41 [Bill_Rose]
Andrew: Do we need to describe how the compositing process would work including the Identifiers that allow different composites to be uniquely identified
15:45:14 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Think it is necessary to identify the composites uniquely.
15:47:00 [Bill_Rose]
Andrew: 2 ways to look at it: Things useful to editor(s) and those that are useful to the user.
15:48:21 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: gets into rights management which is out of scope.
15:48:53 [Bill_Rose]
Bill Rose: User could subscribe to a particular social user's composite.
15:49:14 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Could be done by using a prefix associated with that social user.
15:50:09 [Bill_Rose]
Action Item: Dale, Andrew, Bill - write UC to describe the scenarios we discussed
15:50:09 [trackbot]
Error finding 'Item'. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
15:50:51 [Bill_Rose]
Leslie: Do we need to have a concept of an identifier of a user/composer versus the identifier of a composite. Seem to be mixing the two.
15:51:13 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Can have multiple prefixes for multiple '
15:51:20 [Bill_Rose]
15:51:53 [ldaigle]
agree re. privacy
15:52:52 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Need to look at privacy here as well. How do we describe this to include privacy. Instinct is there will be 2 concepts - globally unique prefixes (permanent) and locally unique prefixes that can be 'thrown away"
15:53:01 [ddavis]
zakim, who is noisy?
15:53:01 [Zakim]
sorry, ddavis, I don't know what conference this is
15:53:19 [ddavis]
zakim, this is WEBTV2
15:53:19 [Zakim]
ok, ddavis; that matches WEBT_GGIE TF()11:00AM
15:53:23 [Bill_Rose]
15:53:40 [ddavis]
zakim, who is noisy?
15:53:51 [Zakim]
ddavis, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.913.241.aaaa (35%)
15:54:58 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Think of it as the difference between a cell phone that is bound by phone # to the user and a throw away phone that is only loosely bound to the user not the users permanent phone #.
15:55:50 [Bill_Rose]
Andrew - Que: How do you distinguish between several "takes" of the same scene versus different events on the same camera?
15:56:15 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Opportunity to explore how this could be handled but it is out of scope for GGIE.
15:56:58 [Bill_Rose]
Action Item: Andrew - write up the question (above) for posting.
15:56:58 [trackbot]
Error finding 'Item'. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
15:57:26 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Capture-UC-3 Fingerprinting and associating a content identifier at asset capture
15:57:30 [ldaigle]
@Bill — are you unmuted?
15:57:31 [Zakim]
- +8339aaff
15:57:44 [Bill_Rose]
I am muted
15:57:48 [azamlerc]
Folks, I need to run... I'll write up some of the questions that I've raised. Cheers!
15:57:50 [ldaigle]
who just sneezed....
15:58:08 [digitaldale]
I will work to document the use case
15:58:09 [ldaigle]
and sniffed
15:59:00 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: UC-3 expands on UC-2 by generating a digital fingerprint and registering it along with the unique content ID
16:00:04 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Content ID is obtained from the issuing authority which is accitated with the fingerprint. Not a simple hash.
16:00:50 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Can generate same video fingerprint even with different audio or video encodings
16:03:13 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Why not a watermark? For final products watermarks work well. But not appropriate for capture because watermarks can alter the original capture that could degrade the capture. Fingerprint does not.
16:04:06 [digitaldale]
watermarking may be better introduced downstream which is tied to a commecial registration authority such as EIDR or AD-ID
16:04:17 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Downstream services can still add watermark for many reasons but for capture case a fingerprint might be more useful/acceptable.
16:05:44 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Gap identied in each UC is there is no issuing authority for the Content Identifier, prefixes, etc. that can be referenced for these purposes.
16:05:52 [digitaldale]
this way there would not need to be watermark extraction or rewatermarking if the watermark is introduced at the capture device and then reinserted later downstream
16:07:00 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: In UC-3, no standardized fingerprint algorithm for this purpose, and no issuing authority that can register the fingerprint with the content ID
16:08:11 [ddavis]
16:08:20 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Any other business?
16:09:45 [Bill_Rose]
Daniel: Want to encourage more participation in this work. If anyone has any ideas to improve/broaden participation let us know. Would like to do a monthly mailing on the activities
16:10:49 [Zakim]
16:10:54 [Bill_Rose]
Que: Can we alert User Groups (Community Groups) to this work?
16:11:11 [Bill_Rose]
Daniel: Will look into how this can be done.
16:11:29 [Bill_Rose]
Perhaps LinkedIn Groups?
16:12:32 [ddavis]
16:13:06 [ddavis]
16:15:10 [ddavis]
16:15:52 [ddavis]
ack ddavis
16:16:00 [paul_higgs]
16:16:33 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Next meeting is scheduled for May 6th which coincides with W3C meetings in Paris. Should we skip that meeting or reschedule?
16:18:15 [ddavis]
16:18:58 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Propose skip May 6th and schedule May 20th as next meeting.
16:19:43 [paul_higgs]
ack paul_higgs
16:20:35 [Bill_Rose]
Daniel: If not addressing rights management, how about policy relating to RM?
16:20:44 [ldaigle]
LInked Content Coalition
16:21:43 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: If we describe how rich metadata could be associated with content, that could be used to point/link to RM services, etc.
16:23:21 [ddavis]
ack ddavis
16:23:22 [Bill_Rose]
Daniel: On administration, we will be shifting to WebEx sometime in June so the bridge will be changing around June.
16:24:03 [Zakim]
- +1.202.429.aadd
16:24:03 [ldaigle]
thanks! bye.
16:24:04 [Bill_Rose]
Glenn: Next meeting May 20th. Closed the meeting at 12:24 ET.
16:24:05 [ldaigle]
ldaigle has left #webtv
16:24:06 [Zakim]
16:24:09 [Zakim]
- +1.818.777.aabb
16:24:11 [Zakim]
- +1.817.576.aaee
16:24:11 [Zakim]
- +1.860.313.aacc
16:24:12 [Zakim]
16:24:17 [Zakim]
16:24:35 [Zakim]
- +1.913.241.aaaa
16:24:37 [Zakim]
WEBT_GGIE TF()11:00AM has ended
16:24:37 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.913.241.aaaa, +1.818.777.aabb, +1.860.313.aacc, +1.202.429.aadd, Leslie_Daigle, +1.817.576.aaee, Paul_Higgs, +8339aaff, Mark
16:24:50 [ddavis]
zakim, who is here?
16:24:50 [Zakim]
apparently WEBT_GGIE TF()11:00AM has ended, ddavis
16:24:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see paul_higgs, Zakim, RRSAgent, Bill_Rose, glennd, ddavis, timeless, richt, schuki, sangwhan_, trackbot, tobie
16:25:20 [ddavis]
s/Daniel: If not/paul_higgs: If not/
16:25:26 [ddavis]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:25:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ddavis
16:30:27 [ddavis]
Present: glennd, Bill_Rose, paul_higgs, azamlerc, ldaigle, digitaldale, NiloMitra, MarkVickers, ddavis
16:30:34 [ddavis]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:30:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ddavis
16:31:06 [ddavis]
Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference: GGIE TF
16:31:08 [ddavis]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:31:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ddavis
16:51:26 [ddavis]
Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference - GGIE TF
16:51:28 [ddavis]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:51:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ddavis
18:41:16 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #webtv