Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

16 Oct 2014


See also: IRC log


Addison, Richard, Leandro, Koji, Steve, Dennis, Xiaoqian, JcK
Addison Phillips
Addison Phillips


trackbot, prepare teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 16 October 2014

<scribe> Scribe: Addison Phillips

<scribe> ScribeNick: aphillip


Action Items


close action-343

<trackbot> Closed action-343.


<trackbot> action-343 -- Richard Ishida to Reply to css text issues listed in linked email in minutes with satisfaction (if satisfied) -- due 2014-09-18 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/343

reopen action-343

<trackbot> Re-opened action-343.

close action-349

<trackbot> Closed action-349.

close action-351

<trackbot> Closed action-351.

Info Share

richard: been spending a lot of time writing tests
... FF33 released
... supports customized counter styles
... FF is also implementing a lot of the counter styles natively
... but tell everyone to put in their stylesheets
... FF has the ones also in chrome

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/repository/predefined-counter-styles/results-predefined-counter-styles

richard: unicode 7.0 core is now released
... the full standard text

<r12a> http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode7.0.0/

Review RADAR


<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/review-instructions

richard: instructions on how to do reviews for Steve


addison: (dicussion of details)

richard: do we have three implementations of ruby?

koji: all three are there but havent' tested

attending: leandro, dennis, addison, richard

koji: will try to dial in

xiaoqian: attending joint session with digipub

richard: on monday/tuesday we often attend other people's meetings

<scribe> ACTION: addison: send richard example of encoding test [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-353 - Send richard example of encoding test [on Addison Phillips - due 2014-10-23].

Review remaining 5 issues for CSS Text



<trackbot> issue-316 -- Line breaking defaults -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/316

richard: would still like a spec change

<r12a> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Oct/0165.html

richard: started with us saying uax14 should be referenced
... so there is an interop way of implementing
... we are only asking for this to be the default
... not necessarily full definition
... some are needed for fairly-common scripts
... so falling back to uax14 would be ideal as a start
... and be interop
... little controversy about most
... and browser vendors could extend to cover those characters

addison: support that

koji: require normatively or just informatively (suggest it)?

richard: normatively, unless there is some good reason otherwise (can't think of)
... some characters in tibetan, for example, that don't work
... unless you implement

koji: scrapping existing code to switch to uax14 difficult
... already have informative recommendation
... requiring uax14 too larger
... no idea how much content breaks

richard: uax14 tests mostly pass
... only corner cases or recently added seem to fail
... not many of them

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/#css3-text

addison: sort of a SHOULD
... implement typographic conventions and fall back on uax14

koji: browser vendors won't discard whole of what they have

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/repository/css3-text/line-break-baspglwj/results-ba#ba_tibetan

koji: uax14 already informatively referenced

richard: think we should ask for normative reference

addison: support

koji: okay either way

<r12a> these tests have been around for a long time, and no movement to fix them is in sight

jck: agree, can ask

<r12a> so i argue that informative isn't working

issue-316: want to ask CSS to make normative, possibly as SHOULD

<trackbot> Notes added to issue-316 Line breaking defaults.


<trackbot> issue-331 -- No kashida style or relationship to styles 'distribute' and 'inter-word' -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/331

richard: can close??
... what is in spec is enough
... don't do "stoopid stuff" with kashida

addison: keep as track for the future?

richard: close and look at in next version?

addison: seems reasonable

<Leandro> no objections

close issue-331

<trackbot> Closed issue-331.

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/333


<trackbot> issue-333 -- 'letter-spacing' and Arabic -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/333

richard: basically addressed
... had a suggestion about an example
... but not important
... think we should close

addison: objections?

<Leandro> no objections

close issue-333

<trackbot> Closed issue-333.


<trackbot> issue-334 -- 'letter-spacing' and Indic -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/334



richard: in indic, some "letters" are two or more grapheme clusters
... definitions of "typographic unit" and "grapheme clsuter" are language/script dependent
... situation is pretty dire in tests I made once away from latin script
... most use glyphs in fonts
... and this makes a mess with stuff such as lam-alef ligature
... some hindi get grouped and other parts spaced away
... pretty random
... don't want to use letter-spacing outside of alphabetics
... might be too far to say "work out on script-by-script basis before trying it"
... want a more sensible approach
... may be useful to add informative sentence
... needs some "out of box thinking"
... think about doing on basis of characters
... and grapheme clusters
... current approach based on glyphs is not right
... may be helpful (informative)
... to say that
... may be worth having text specifically in the letter-spacing section

<koji> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-text/#propdef-letter-spacing

addison: helpful to have a note there to remind people that "typographic charactere units" are not glyphs


<trackbot> issue-354 -- Questions about letter-spacing for Arabic script -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/354

richard: had questions about details
... fantasai replied
... clarified some of my questions
... was just asking if the clarification could make it into spec
... not normative, just explanatory

addison: write back asking?

richard: think so

<r12a> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2014OctDec/0010.html

richard: in this email

koji: looking at this, last reply was from fantasai
... can you reply to that thread?

richard: okay

koji: css try to keep track in email
... hard to track otherwise

richard: will do

koji: related
... when tests are created
... wondering how we can share effort?

richard: most i18n tests already in css test suite
... some (letter spacing) are informal, but hope to convert via TTWF
... and submit via github
... have over 100 tests from me
... over 600?

koji: to github?

richard: someone picks up and puts into css systeme
... there is a gap
... my tests are often in css system for a long time
... seems to be a long gap
... after submission
... spoke to WG chair
... some process there?
... waiting on certain spec maturity
... but some like line break are available from spec


addison: we have two more thing in agenda

leandro: want more time to look into forms

Locales in Forms

richard: put up test page
... made other changes to the document


<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/test-incubator/locales-in-forms/numbers.html

<scribe> chair: reminder that next week is the last one before TPAC/Unicode break of two weeks

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: following call with be the one on the 13th of November at new time

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: addison: send richard example of encoding test [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.138 (CVS log)
$Date: 2014-10-16 15:01:29 $

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Succeeded: s/how to do reviews/how to do reviews for Steve/
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Found Scribe: Addison Phillips
Found ScribeNick: aphillip
Default Present: +1.703.948.aaaa, aphillip, Xiaoqian, Steve_Atkin, DennisTan, David, Richard, +1.408.536.aacc, Leandro, JcK, koji
Present: Addison Richard Leandro Koji Steve Dennis Xiaoqian JcK
Regrets: Felix
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2014Oct/0008.html
Found Date: 16 Oct 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-i18n-minutes.html
People with action items: addison

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