edit

RDF-in-XHTML Task Force

Minutes of 06 March 2008

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Mar/0071.html
Seen
Unknown Ben_Adida, Unknown Ralph, Unknown Steeeven, Unknown Steven, Unknown benadida, Unknown markbirbeck, Unknown msporny
Regrets
Unknown Michael, Unknown Simone
Chair
Unknown Ben
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. to meet at 1500 UTC from March 13 onward link
  2. issue 89 resoved as "update step 4 to take into account @property before setting the skip flag" link
Topics

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15:56:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc

15:56:36 <Ralph> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force
15:56:40 <Ralph> zakim, this will be rdfa

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Unknown Ralph: zakim, this will be rdfa

15:56:40 <Zakim> ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

16:00:09 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-02-28

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Unknown Ralph: -> http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-02-28

16:00:27 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Mar/0071.html
16:00:39 <msporny> Ralph, I can scribe today if you'd like...

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Unknown msporny: Ralph, I can scribe today if you'd like...

16:00:49 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

16:00:52 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code?

16:00:52 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

16:00:56 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph

16:01:30 <markbirbeck> zakim, random gibberish to see if I'm connected.

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, random gibberish to see if I'm connected.

16:01:30 <Zakim> I don't understand you, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand you, markbirbeck

16:01:35 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

16:01:41 <msporny> ha...

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Unknown msporny: ha...

16:01:48 <msporny> zakim, I am ??P21

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Unknown msporny: zakim, I am ??P21

16:01:48 <Zakim> +msporny; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +msporny; got it

16:01:57 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code?

16:01:57 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

16:02:27 <Zakim> + +0208761aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0208761aaaa

16:02:33 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aaaa

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am aaaa

16:02:33 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it

16:03:04 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ben_Adida

16:03:33 <Ralph> Regrets: Michael, Simone

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16:03:45 <Ralph> Regrets+ Shane

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Unknown Ralph: Regrets+ Shane

16:04:04 <benadida> Steven, are you on the call?

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Unknown benadida: Steven, are you on the call?

16:05:30 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

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Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-617

16:05:30 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

16:05:32 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

16:06:27 <Ralph> agenda+ Actions

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Unknown Ralph: agenda+ Actions

16:06:34 <Ralph> agenda+ Issue-89

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Unknown Ralph: agenda+ ISSUE-89

16:06:39 <Ralph> agenda+ Issue-97

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Unknown Ralph: agenda+ ISSUE-97

16:07:09 <Ralph> agenda+ Easy Issues

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Unknown Ralph: agenda+ Easy Issues

16:07:17 <Ralph> agenda+ Test Case status

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Unknown Ralph: agenda+ Test Case status

16:07:20 <Ralph> agenda+ Primer

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Unknown Ralph: agenda+ Primer

16:08:24 <Ralph> PROPOSED: to meet at 1500 UTC on March 13, 20, 27

PROPOSED: to meet at 1500 UTC on March 13, 20, 27

16:08:47 <Ralph> RESOLVED: to meet at 1500 UTC from March 13 onward

RESOLVED: to meet at 1500 UTC from March 13 onward

16:09:46 <Ralph> Manu: do I need to implement something in Crazy Ivan for the EARL stuff?

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Unknown Manu: do I need to implement something in Crazy Ivan for the EARL stuff? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:10:03 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to:  Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Mar/0071

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Unknown Steven: Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Mar/0071

16:10:15 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

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Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck

16:10:16 <Ralph> Ben: let's look for mail from Benjamin Nowack

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Unknown Ben: let's look for mail from Benjamin Nowack [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:10:24 <Ralph> Manu: I'll speak with Michael

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Unknown Manu: I'll speak with Michael [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:10:52 <Ralph> Ben: the Web Service approach to parsing is only going to work for a subset of the parsers

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Unknown Ben: the Web Service approach to parsing is only going to work for a subset of the parsers [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:11:01 <Ralph> ... e.g. the javascript parsers actually have to run inside the browser

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Unknown Ralph: ... e.g. the javascript parsers actually have to run inside the browser

16:11:12 <Zakim> +markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck

16:11:46 <Ralph> ... inherently we'll need multiple ways to run the test suite

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Unknown Ralph: ... inherently we'll need multiple ways to run the test suite

16:12:22 <Ralph> Manu: Shane might have been looking into this

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Unknown Manu: Shane might have been looking into this [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:12:29 <Ralph> ... spidermonkey may help?

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Unknown Ralph: ... spidermonkey may help?

16:12:37 <Ralph> Ben: but spidermonkey doesn't do DOM

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Unknown Ben: but spidermonkey doesn't do DOM [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:12:52 <Ralph> ... so it won't work for Safari, IE, and Opera

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Unknown Ralph: ... so it won't work for Safari, IE, and Opera

16:13:29 <Ralph> move to next agendum

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Unknown Ralph: move to next agendum

16:13:29 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Actions" taken up [from Ralph]

1. Actions

16:13:37 <Ralph> [DONE] ACTION: Ben to respond to issue 87 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

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Unknown Ralph: ACTION: Ben to respond to ISSUE-87 [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09]

16:14:25 <Ralph> s/[DONE]//
16:14:39 <Ralph> Ben: oops, I really closed issue 92

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Unknown Ben: oops, I really closed ISSUE-92 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:14:56 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to respond to issue 87 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

ACTION: Ben to respond to ISSUE-87 [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09]

16:14:58 <Ralph> -- continues

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Unknown Ralph: -- continues

16:15:05 <Ralph> [DONE] ACTION: Ben to update the primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

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Unknown Ralph: [DONE] ACTION: Ben to update the primer [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11]

16:15:36 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Mar/0031.html "latest Primer edits" [Ben 2008-03-03]

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Unknown Ralph: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Mar/0031.html "latest Primer edits" [Ben 2008-03-03]

16:15:52 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/ live editor's draft of Primer

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Unknown Ralph: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/ live editor's draft of Primer

16:16:35 <Ralph> ACTION: Mark to reply and process issue 88 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

ACTION: Mark to reply and process ISSUE-88 [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-10]

16:16:51 <Ralph> -- continues

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Unknown Ralph: -- continues

16:17:04 <Ralph> Mark: I did reply to Johannes but didn't get the formal "OK, I'm happy" response

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Unknown Mark: I did reply to Johannes but didn't get the formal "OK, I'm happy" response [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:17:16 <Ralph> Ben: I'll take the followup to this action

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Unknown Ben: I'll take the followup to this action [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:17:52 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to followup with Johannes on his satisfaction with issue 88 resolution

ACTION: Ben to followup with Johannes on his satisfaction with ISSUE-88 resolution

16:17:59 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-01]

16:18:00 <Ralph> -- continues

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Unknown Ralph: -- continues

16:18:09 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06]

16:18:10 <Ralph> -- continues

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Unknown Ralph: -- continues

16:18:23 <Ralph> Ben: I'll do this after the implementation report is done

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Unknown Ben: I'll do this after the implementation report is done [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:18:28 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to email mailing list to think about last substantive issue on tracker: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

ACTION: Ben to email mailing list to think about last substantive issue on tracker: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/6 [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/07-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07]

16:18:30 <Ralph> -- continues

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Unknown Ralph: -- continues

16:18:41 <Ralph> ACTION: Manu write a response to Christian Hoertnagl for issue 7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

ACTION: Manu write a response to Christian Hoertnagl for ISSUE-7 [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09]

16:18:42 <Ralph> -- continues

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Unknown Ralph: -- continues

16:18:51 <Ralph> ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06]

16:18:52 <Ralph> -- continues

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Unknown Ralph: -- continues

16:19:20 <Ralph> move to next agendum

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Unknown Ralph: move to next agendum

16:19:20 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Issue-89" taken up [from Ralph]

2. ISSUE-89

16:19:31 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/89 issue 89

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Unknown Ralph: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/89 ISSUE-89

16:20:29 <Ralph> Mark: the problem in the first example (called "second example") is that when we drop all the way through we fetch the bnode from the parent

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Unknown Mark: the problem in the first example (called "second example") is that when we drop all the way through we fetch the bnode from the parent [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:21:00 <Ralph> ... in the first case this is fine for foaf:name to complete the hanging triple but it's not fine for the DIV

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Unknown Ralph: ... in the first case this is fine for foaf:name to complete the hanging triple but it's not fine for the DIV

16:21:30 <Ralph> ... it was being handled as if there were no subject, but there's no _anything_

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Unknown Ralph: ... it was being handled as if there were no subject, but there's no _anything_

16:21:37 <Ralph> ... Ivan had proposed a solution to this a while ago

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Unknown Ralph: ... Ivan had proposed a solution to this a while ago

16:21:52 <Ralph> ... he suggested skipping everything unless one of the significant attributes were present

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Unknown Ralph: ... he suggested skipping everything unless one of the significant attributes were present

16:22:10 <Ralph> ... this isn't sufficient, as @lang processing still needs to be done

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Unknown Ralph: ... this isn't sufficient, as @lang processing still needs to be done

16:22:41 <Ralph> ... Johannes spotted a condition that didn't quite work correctly with the added skip flag

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Unknown Ralph: ... Johannes spotted a condition that didn't quite work correctly with the added skip flag

16:23:38 <Ralph> ... the skip flag is _not_ meant to handle superfluous triples

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Unknown Ralph: ... the skip flag is _not_ meant to handle superfluous triples

16:23:49 <Ralph> Ben: what changes need to be made?

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Unknown Ben: what changes need to be made? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:24:17 <benadida> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Mar/0043.html

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Unknown benadida: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Mar/0043.html

16:25:29 <Ralph> Mark: there is a minor error in the skip flag and an additional error in @property

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Unknown Mark: there is a minor error in the skip flag and an additional error in property [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:25:39 <Ralph> s/@//
16:25:51 <Ralph> ... the property error may not be worth fixing

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Unknown Ralph: ... the property error may not be worth fixing

16:26:08 <Ralph> ... when setting the skip flag we should also test that there is no property value

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Unknown Ralph: ... when setting the skip flag we should also test that there is no property value

16:26:33 <Ralph> ... 'skip' skips completing the hanging triples (in this case)

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Unknown Ralph: ... 'skip' skips completing the hanging triples (in this case)

16:27:01 <Ralph> ... so while it's correct that empty DIV should not complete a hanging triple, the next foaf:name _should_ complete a hanging triple

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Unknown Ralph: ... so while it's correct that empty DIV should not complete a hanging triple, the next foaf:name _should_ complete a hanging triple

16:27:21 <Ralph> ... so this correction feels like a minor editorial one to me

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Unknown Ralph: ... so this correction feels like a minor editorial one to me

16:27:40 <Ralph> Ben: why didn't we discover this earlier?

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Unknown Ben: why didn't we discover this earlier? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:27:55 <Ralph> Mark: it has to do with @property appearing below a hanging triple.  Would still be there without the DIV

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Unknown Mark: it has to do with @property appearing below a hanging triple. Would still be there without the DIV [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:28:13 <Ralph> Ben: we have test cases with @rel and @property below it.  Those should complete hanging triples.

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Unknown Ben: we have test cases with @rel and @property below it. Those should complete hanging triples. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:28:44 <Ralph> Mark: I didn't spot this because in my test case I have nearly the same markup as in Johannes' example but I added a 3rd line with an @rel

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Unknown Mark: I didn't spot this because in my test case I have nearly the same markup as in Johannes' example but I added a 3rd line with an @rel [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:29:02 <Ralph> ... unfortunately, my @rel does complete a hanging triple so I didn't spot this

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Unknown Ralph: ... unfortunately, my @rel does complete a hanging triple so I didn't spot this

16:29:16 <Ralph> ... this skip flag error only arises if you have only @property

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Unknown Ralph: ... this skip flag error only arises if you have only @property

16:30:12 <Ralph> ... skip flag is only used at the end of a branch of @rel and @rev

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Unknown Ralph: ... skip flag is only used at the end of a branch of @rel and @rev

16:31:34 <Ralph> Ben: there's no disagreement in the task force; it seems a small but in the rules

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Unknown Ben: there's no disagreement in the task force; it seems a small but in the rules [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:33:52 <Ralph> Ralph: let's just document this change clearly in the Changes section

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Unknown Ralph: let's just document this change clearly in the Changes section [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:34:16 <msporny> Test #33

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Unknown msporny: Test #33

16:34:17 <Ralph> ACTION: Mark/Shane include issue 89 correction in Changes section

ACTION: Mark/Shane include ISSUE-89 correction in Changes section

16:34:22 <msporny> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

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Unknown msporny: http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

16:34:26 <Ralph> Manu: why didn't we notice this with test 33?

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Unknown Manu: why didn't we notice this with test 33? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:34:42 <Ralph> Mark: we now do not complete hanging triples unless the recursion has given us a reason to complete them

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Unknown Mark: we now do not complete hanging triples unless the recursion has given us a reason to complete them [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:35:08 <Ralph> ... the box in step "11" (really 10) was not in the previous rules

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Unknown Ralph: ... the box in step "11" (really 10) was not in the previous rules

16:35:33 <Ralph> Ben: is the change a small number of sentences?

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Unknown Ben: is the change a small number of sentences? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:36:13 <Ralph> Mark: at the very end of step 4, we add "/+and if @property is not present+/ the skip property is set to True"

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Unknown Mark: at the very end of step 4, we add "/+and if @property is not present+/ the skip property is set to True" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:36:36 <benadida> PROPOSE to resolve issue 89 as "update step 4 to take into account @property before setting the skip flag"

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Unknown benadida: PROPOSE to resolve ISSUE-89 as "update step 4 to take into account @property before setting the skip flag"

16:37:08 <msporny> +1

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Unknown msporny: +1

16:37:12 <Steeeven> +1

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Unknown Steeeven: +1

16:37:42 <Ralph> RESOLVED: issue 89 resoved as "update step 4 to take into account @property before setting the skip flag"

RESOLVED: ISSUE-89 resoved as "update step 4 to take into account @property before setting the skip flag"

16:38:12 <Ralph> ACTION: Mark update editor's draft with issue 89 resolution

ACTION: Mark update editor's draft with ISSUE-89 resolution

16:38:49 <Ralph> move to item 4

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Unknown Ralph: move to item 4

16:38:56 <Ralph> Topic: Easy Issues

3. Easy Issues

16:39:33 <Ralph> zakim, close item 4

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Unknown Ralph: zakim, close item 4

16:39:33 <Zakim> agendum 4, Easy Issues, closed

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 4, Easy Issues, closed

16:39:34 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

16:39:35 <Zakim> 2. Issue-89 [from Ralph]

Zakim IRC Bot: 2. ISSUE-89 [from Ralph]

16:39:49 <Ralph> Ben: the easy issues are mostly resolved in mail

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Unknown Ben: the easy issues are mostly resolved in mail [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:39:54 <Ralph> move to next agendum

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Unknown Ralph: move to next agendum

16:39:54 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Issue-89" taken up [from Ralph]

4. ISSUE-89

16:40:02 <Ralph> zakim, close agendum 2

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Unknown Ralph: zakim, close agendum 2

16:40:02 <Zakim> agendum 2, Issue-89, closed

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 2, ISSUE-89, closed

16:40:03 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

16:40:03 <Ralph> move to next agendum

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Unknown Ralph: move to next agendum

16:40:04 <Zakim> 3. Issue-97 [from Ralph]

Zakim IRC Bot: 3. ISSUE-97 [from Ralph]

16:40:05 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Issue-97" taken up [from Ralph]

5. ISSUE-97

16:40:17 <benadida> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/97

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Unknown benadida: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/97

16:40:30 <Ralph> "handing of namespaces and canonicalization of XML literals"

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Unknown Ralph: "handing of namespaces and canonicalization of XML literals"

16:40:53 <Ralph> Ben: namespaces in XML Literals should be in the XML namespace

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Unknown Ben: namespaces in XML Literals should be in the XML namespace [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:41:18 <Ralph> ... Mark proposed that the right way to serialize these is to use XML Exclusive Canonicalization

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Unknown Ralph: ... Mark proposed that the right way to serialize these is to use XML Exclusive Canonicalization

16:41:45 <Ralph> Mark: Exclusive Canonicalization requires a root element, called an "apex node"

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Unknown Mark: Exclusive Canonicalization requires a root element, called an "apex node" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:42:09 <Ralph> ... we'd be required to do two things:

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Unknown Ralph: ... we'd be required to do two things:

16:42:19 <Ralph> ... 1. dump all of the in-context namespaces onto the apex node

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Unknown Ralph: ... 1. dump all of the in-context namespaces onto the apex node

16:43:08 <Ralph> ... we have all the in-context prefix mappings in our [evaluation context]

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Unknown Ralph: ... we have all the in-context prefix mappings in our [evaluation context]

16:43:45 <Ralph> ... 2. any embedded namespace declarations are supposed to be removed if they duplicate declarations on the apex node

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Unknown Ralph: ... 2. any embedded namespace declarations are supposed to be removed if they duplicate declarations on the apex node

16:43:54 <Ralph> ... I think we can drop this step

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Unknown Ralph: ... I think we can drop this step

16:44:06 <Ralph> ... I've talked with Ivan about this and he thinks he might be able to implement it

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Unknown Ralph: ... I've talked with Ivan about this and he thinks he might be able to implement it

16:44:25 <Ralph> ... but if there's no apex node I don't think we can do anything

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Unknown Ralph: ... but if there's no apex node I don't think we can do anything

16:45:11 <Ralph> ... Exclusive Canonicalization does not _require_ the implementation to create an apex node; it mostly does not deal with things that don't have apex nodes

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Unknown Ralph: ... Exclusive Canonicalization does not _require_ the implementation to create an apex node; it mostly does not deal with things that don't have apex nodes

16:46:38 <Ralph> ... RDF Concepts document only requires that an XMLLiteral be a well-formed thing; e.g. it can be inserted as a child of some other element and the result is well-formed

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Unknown Ralph: ... RDF Concepts document only requires that an XMLLiteral be a well-formed thing; e.g. it can be inserted as a child of some other element and the result is well-formed

16:47:20 <Ralph> Ben: how much of a problem would it be for us to say that namespaces must be specified [within the literal] if the author wants them

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Unknown Ben: how much of a problem would it be for us to say that namespaces must be specified [within the literal] if the author wants them [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:47:48 <Ralph> Mark: RDF Concepts says XMLliterals must conform to Exclusive Canonicalization

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Unknown Mark: RDF Concepts says XMLliterals must conform to Exclusive Canonicalization [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:48:14 <Ralph> ... so I think our loophole here is in the Exclusive Canonicalization specification

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Unknown Ralph: ... so I think our loophole here is in the Exclusive Canonicalization specification

16:48:45 <Ralph> Ben: I don't want to have to do XML [namespace] processing in the parser

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Unknown Ben: I don't want to have to do XML [namespace] processing in the parser [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:49:11 <Ralph> Mark: we could drop XMLLiterals alltogether and reserve the datatype, saying it's for a future version

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Unknown Mark: we could drop XMLLiterals alltogether and reserve the datatype, saying it's for a future version [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:49:38 <Ralph> ... we could wait and see how implementations experiment with the idea

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Unknown Ralph: ... we could wait and see how implementations experiment with the idea

16:50:09 <Ralph> ... alternatively, continue processing as now but once the parser encounters an XMLLiteral treat it as a string rather than do XML processing

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Unknown Ralph: ... alternatively, continue processing as now but once the parser encounters an XMLLiteral treat it as a string rather than do XML processing

16:51:09 <Ralph> ... create a string representation of the XML

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Unknown Ralph: ... create a string representation of the XML

16:51:43 <Ralph> Manu: I'm hesitant to require processing all the XML

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Unknown Manu: I'm hesitant to require processing all the XML [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:51:50 <Ralph> ... adds a lot of complexity to the parser

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Unknown Ralph: ... adds a lot of complexity to the parser

16:52:26 <Ralph> ... I'd prefer to take the inner text as-is and not require processing of it

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Unknown Ralph: ... I'd prefer to take the inner text as-is and not require processing of it

16:52:33 <Steeeven> +1

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Unknown Steeeven: +1

16:52:36 <Ralph> ... or leave the question to a future spec

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Unknown Ralph: ... or leave the question to a future spec

16:53:21 <Ralph> Mark: I have lots of use cases for XMLLiterals but I'm also not inclined to require processing the inner text

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Unknown Mark: I have lots of use cases for XMLLiterals but I'm also not inclined to require processing the inner text [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:53:52 <Ralph> Steven: keep the inner text as-is with the markup

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Unknown Steven: keep the inner text as-is with the markup [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:54:13 <Ralph> Manu: I do think people will have requirements to preserve all the inner markup

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Unknown Manu: I do think people will have requirements to preserve all the inner markup [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:55:34 <Ralph> Mark: taking the inner text is really useful for the 80% case, particularly for round-tripping uses

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Unknown Mark: taking the inner text is really useful for the 80% case, particularly for round-tripping uses [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:56:00 <Ralph> ... the problem is that calling the result an RDF XMLLiteral then it has to actually be one, and Exclusive Canonicalization is then required

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Unknown Ralph: ... the problem is that calling the result an RDF XMLLiteral then it has to actually be one, and Exclusive Canonicalization is then required

16:56:10 <Ralph> ... could we call it an "RDFa XML literal"?

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Unknown Ralph: ... could we call it an "RDFa XML literal"?

16:56:34 <Ralph> Manu: rdfa:literal?

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Unknown Manu: rdfa:literal? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:56:42 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ben_Adida

16:56:50 <benadida> uggh, what happened....

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Unknown benadida: uggh, what happened....

16:57:10 <Ralph> Ben: I'd prefer to look for a different solution and avoid rdfa:literal ; we're not supposed to be adding RDF features

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Unknown Ben: I'd prefer to look for a different solution and avoid rdfa:literal ; we're not supposed to be adding RDF features [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:57:13 <Ralph> Ralph: +1 to Ben

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Unknown Ralph: +1 to Ben [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:57:26 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ben_Adida

16:58:02 <msporny> rdfs:Literal ?

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Unknown rdfs: Literal ? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown msporny ]

16:58:16 <Ralph> Ben: I see 3 solutions; 1. resolve exclusive canonicalization, which seems to require XML understanding in the parser

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Unknown Ben: I see 3 solutions; 1. resolve exclusive canonicalization, which seems to require XML understanding in the parser [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

16:58:43 <Ralph> ... 2. find another datatype that allows us to preserve the markup but doesn't require exclusive canonicalization

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Unknown Ralph: ... 2. find another datatype that allows us to preserve the markup but doesn't require exclusive canonicalization

16:58:50 <Ralph> ... 3. leave it undefined in this version

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Unknown Ralph: ... 3. leave it undefined in this version

16:59:37 <msporny> I would prefer option #2: find another datatype that allows us to preserve the markup.

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Unknown msporny: I would prefer option #2: find another datatype that allows us to preserve the markup.

16:59:58 <Ralph> Mark: in (3), I'd still suggest a paragraph that makes suggestions; e.g. "just take the inner string with the markup which isn't precisely an rdf:XMLLiteral but it's close enough for many users"

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Unknown Mark: in (3), I'd still suggest a paragraph that makes suggestions; e.g. "just take the inner string with the markup which isn't precisely an rdf:XMLLiteral but it's close enough for many users" [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

17:00:35 <Ralph> Ben: let's post a summary to the mailing list and solicit feedback

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Unknown Ben: let's post a summary to the mailing list and solicit feedback [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

17:00:44 <msporny> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_literal

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Unknown msporny: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_literal

17:01:19 <Ralph> Manu: perhaps rdfs:Literal gives us enough leeway

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Unknown Manu: perhaps rdfs:Literal gives us enough leeway [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

17:02:25 <Ralph> Ralph: I'm pretty sure rdfs:Literal will not do what we want

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Unknown Ralph: I'm pretty sure rdfs:Literal will not do what we want [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

17:02:56 <Ralph> ... but let's put it to the list.  Some of the RDF Core WG participants may have useful advice

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Unknown Ralph: ... but let's put it to the list. Some of the RDF Core WG participants may have useful advice

17:03:02 <benadida> ACTION: Mark to summarize the issue and 3 options for XMLLiteral to mailing list

ACTION: Mark to summarize ISSUE-97 and 3 options for XMLLiteral to mailing list

17:03:43 <Ralph> s/the issue/issue 97/
17:03:45 <Steeeven> bye

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Unknown Steeeven: bye

17:03:49 <Zakim> -Steven

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

17:04:02 <Ralph> zakim, close this agendum

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Unknown Ralph: zakim, close this agendum

17:04:02 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 3 closed

17:04:03 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

17:04:05 <Zakim> 5. Test Case status [from Ralph]

Zakim IRC Bot: 5. Test Case status [from Ralph]

17:04:10 <Ralph> Topic: Primer

6. Primer

17:04:17 <Ralph> Ben: please do look at the Primer

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Unknown Ben: please do look at the Primer [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

17:04:28 <Ralph> ... and send comments

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Unknown Ralph: ... and send comments

17:05:48 <Ralph> ... should we push out an updated Primer quickly and then do another WD in a few weeks or wait?

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Unknown Ralph: ... should we push out an updated Primer quickly and then do another WD in a few weeks or wait?

17:05:49 <markbirbeck> zakim, mute me

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, mute me

17:05:49 <Zakim> markbirbeck should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: markbirbeck should now be muted

17:05:53 <Ralph> Ralph: how confusing is the current WD?

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Unknown Ralph: how confusing is the current WD? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

17:06:16 <markbirbeck> zakim, unmute me

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, unmute me

17:06:16 <Zakim> markbirbeck should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: markbirbeck should no longer be muted

17:07:01 <Ralph> Ben: the changes are mostly in @src

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Unknown Ben: the changes are mostly in @src [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

17:07:58 <Ralph> ... perhaps the WGs can review these changes quickly

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Unknown Ralph: ... perhaps the WGs can review these changes quickly

17:09:04 <benadida> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/

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Unknown benadida: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/

17:09:32 <Ralph> Ralph: I'm in favor of doing a quick update to resync followed in a few weeks by another update

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Unknown Ralph: I'm in favor of doing a quick update to resync followed in a few weeks by another update [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

17:10:12 <Ralph> ... but the risk in doing a rush update is in overlooking something else that's out of sync that might then create more confusion

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Unknown Ralph: ... but the risk in doing a rush update is in overlooking something else that's out of sync that might then create more confusion

17:11:02 <Ralph> Ben: I'll try to write a diff document later today

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Unknown Ben: I'll try to write a diff document later today [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Ralph ]

17:11:53 <Ralph> [adjourned]

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Unknown Ralph: [adjourned]

17:11:56 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

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Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck

17:11:57 <Zakim> -msporny

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Zakim IRC Bot: -msporny

17:11:58 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ben_Adida

17:11:59 <Zakim> -Ralph

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph

17:11:59 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

17:12:00 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, msporny, +0208761aaaa, markbirbeck, Ben_Adida, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ralph, msporny, +0208761aaaa, markbirbeck, Ben_Adida, Steven

17:12:27 <Ralph> rrsagent, please make record public

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Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, please make record public

17:12:34 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes

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Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, please draft minutes

17:12:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

17:13:19 <Ralph> Chair: Ben

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17:13:55 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes

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Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, please draft minutes

17:13:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph

17:14:00 <Ralph> zakim, bye

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Unknown Ralph: zakim, bye

17:14:09 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye

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Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, bye

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-actions.rdf :

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to respond to issue 87 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [1]

ACTION: Ben to respond to ISSUE-87 [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09] [1]

17:14:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-14-56

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-14-56

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark to reply and process issue 88 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [2]

ACTION: Mark to reply and process ISSUE-88 [recorded in ACTION-10]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-10] [2]

17:14:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-16-35

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-16-35

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to followup with Johannes on his satisfaction with issue 88 resolution [3]

ACTION: Ben to followup with Johannes on his satisfaction with ISSUE-88 resolution [3]

17:14:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-17-52

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-17-52

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [4]

ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-01] [4]

17:14:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-17-59

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-17-59

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [5]

ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] [5]

17:14:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-18-09

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-18-09

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to email mailing list to think about last substantive issue on tracker: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/07-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [6]

ACTION: Ben to email mailing list to think about last substantive issue on tracker: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/6 [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/07-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] [6]

17:14:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-18-28

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-18-28

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu write a response to Christian Hoertnagl for issue 7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [7]

ACTION: Manu write a response to Christian Hoertnagl for ISSUE-7 [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09] [7]

17:14:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-18-41

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-18-41

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [8]

ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] [8]

17:14:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-18-51

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-18-51

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark/Shane include issue 89 correction in Changes section [9]

ACTION: Mark/Shane include ISSUE-89 correction in Changes section [9]

17:14:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-34-17

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-34-17

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark update editor's draft with issue 89 resolution [10]

ACTION: Mark update editor's draft with ISSUE-89 resolution [10]

17:14:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-38-12

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T16-38-12

17:14:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark to summarize the issue and 3 options for XMLLiteral to mailing list [11]

ACTION: Mark to summarize the issue and 3 options for XMLLiteral to mailing list [11]

17:14:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T17-03-02

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-irc#T17-03-02



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