None.
13:57:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/27-ldp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/27-ldp-irc ←
13:57:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
13:57:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP ←
13:57:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:57:50 <trackbot> Date: 27 August 2012
13:57:51 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←
13:58:15 <oberger> don't get upset, no one's available ;)
Olivier Berger: don't get upset, no one's available ;) ←
13:58:19 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started ←
13:58:26 <Zakim> +sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro ←
13:58:38 <sandro> hmmm?
Sandro Hawke: hmmm? ←
13:58:51 <Yves> no call this week, no?
Yves Lafon: no call this week, no? ←
13:59:01 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
13:59:10 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
13:59:39 <sandro> Yes call this week. There was an agenda, plus it was in the minutes of last week and it's in the channel title.....!
Sandro Hawke: Yes call this week. There was an agenda, plus it was in the minutes of last week and it's in the channel title.....! ←
14:00:04 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: next LDP meeting 27-August-2012 AGENDA: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.08.27
Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: next LDP meeting 27-August-2012 AGENDA: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.08.27 ←
14:00:06 <Yves> ok, thanks (I don't see the channel title, and am lagging on email)
Yves Lafon: ok, thanks (I don't see the channel title, and am lagging on email) ←
14:00:13 <oberger> Zakim, ??P6 is me
Olivier Berger: Zakim, ??P6 is me ←
14:00:13 <Zakim> +oberger; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +oberger; got it ←
14:00:23 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
14:00:47 <MacTed> Zakim, code?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, code? ←
14:00:47 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), MacTed ←
14:00:53 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
14:00:56 <Ruben> Hi all, I won't be able to participate on the phone (traveling), but I will be on IRC.
Ruben Verborgh: Hi all, I won't be able to participate on the phone (traveling), but I will be on IRC. ←
14:01:04 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software has me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software has me ←
14:01:04 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
14:01:06 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:01:06 <Zakim> sorry, MacTed, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, MacTed, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
14:01:12 <Zakim> -??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P7 ←
14:01:12 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
14:01:12 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
14:01:16 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:01:16 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
14:01:19 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is me
Steve Speicher: Zakim, [IBM] is me ←
14:01:19 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it ←
14:01:46 <oberger> Zakim, mute me
Olivier Berger: Zakim, mute me ←
14:01:46 <Zakim> oberger should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: oberger should now be muted ←
14:02:40 <bblfish> hi
Henry Story: hi ←
14:02:46 <Zakim> +Arthur_Keen
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arthur_Keen ←
14:02:50 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
14:02:55 <oberger> ouch
Olivier Berger: ouch ←
14:03:02 <oberger> hello Dr larsen
Olivier Berger: hello Dr larsen ←
14:03:07 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy? ←
14:03:08 <AndyS> zakim, ??P21 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P21 is me ←
14:03:08 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:03:18 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds ←
14:03:33 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy? ←
14:03:43 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds ←
14:03:46 <oberger> SteveS: or from a plane
Steve Speicher: or from a plane [ Scribe Assist by Olivier Berger ] ←
14:04:03 <Zakim> + +1.510.698.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.510.698.aaaa ←
14:04:04 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.324.aabb ←
14:04:15 <AndyS> zakim, mute me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, mute me ←
14:04:15 <Zakim> AndyS should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS should now be muted ←
14:04:23 <AndyS> zakim, unmute me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, unmute me ←
14:04:23 <Zakim> AndyS should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS should no longer be muted ←
14:04:29 <oberger> ah
Olivier Berger: ah ←
14:04:52 <bblfish> Zakim, who is here?
Henry Story: Zakim, who is here? ←
14:04:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see sandro, oberger (muted), SteveS, MacTed (muted), Arthur_Keen, AndyS, +1.510.698.aaaa, Yves
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see sandro, oberger (muted), SteveS, MacTed (muted), Arthur_Keen, AndyS, +1.510.698.aaaa, Yves ←
14:04:54 <Zakim> MacTed has MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed has MacTed ←
14:04:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see bblfish, SteveS, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, Ruben, MacTed, betehess, LeeF, oberger, trackbot, sandro, Yves, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bblfish, SteveS, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, Ruben, MacTed, betehess, LeeF, oberger, trackbot, sandro, Yves, ericP ←
14:05:22 <bblfish> Zakim, aaaa is bblfish
Henry Story: Zakim, aaaa is bblfish ←
14:05:22 <Zakim> +bblfish; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish; got it ←
14:05:26 <bblfish> Zakim, who is here?
Henry Story: Zakim, who is here? ←
14:05:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see sandro, oberger (muted), SteveS, MacTed (muted), Arthur_Keen, AndyS, bblfish, Yves
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see sandro, oberger (muted), SteveS, MacTed (muted), Arthur_Keen, AndyS, bblfish, Yves ←
14:05:35 <Zakim> MacTed has MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed has MacTed ←
14:05:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see Arnaud, bblfish, SteveS, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, Ruben, MacTed, betehess, LeeF, oberger, trackbot, sandro, Yves, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Arnaud, bblfish, SteveS, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, Ruben, MacTed, betehess, LeeF, oberger, trackbot, sandro, Yves, ericP ←
14:05:43 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
14:05:51 <oberger> Hi Arnaud
Olivier Berger: Hi Arnaud ←
14:06:16 <ericP> regrets: on stage
Eric Prud'hommeaux: regrets: on stage ←
14:07:15 <bblfish> was there a conf call last week?
Henry Story: was there a conf call last week? ←
14:07:33 <oberger> summer time is hard time to stay focused
Olivier Berger: summer time is hard time to stay focused ←
14:07:59 <sandro> Yes, bblfish
Sandro Hawke: Yes, bblfish ←
14:08:10 <bblfish> ah, I thought it was every two weeks in summer
Henry Story: ah, I thought it was every two weeks in summer ←
14:08:55 <oberger> texting via REST APIs while driving ? booh
Olivier Berger: texting via REST APIs while driving ? booh ←
14:09:32 <Zakim> + +44.754.550.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.754.550.aacc ←
14:10:49 <oberger> Zakim, unmute me
Olivier Berger: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:10:49 <Zakim> oberger should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: oberger should no longer be muted ←
14:11:36 <sandro> scribe: SteveS
(Scribe set to Steve Speicher)
14:11:50 <SteveS> scribenick: SteveS
14:12:18 <Zakim> +??P32
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P32 ←
14:12:33 <SteveS> Topic: Minutes from 22 August 2012
14:12:45 <oberger> nope
Olivier Berger: nope ←
14:12:49 <SteveBattle> zakim, ??P32 is me
Steve Battle: zakim, ??P32 is me ←
14:12:49 <Zakim> +SteveBattle; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveBattle; got it ←
14:13:14 <SteveS> Arnaud asks if anyone has read minutes…no response
Arnaud asks if anyone has read minutes…no response ←
14:13:14 <bblfish> I still have to do my action item
Henry Story: I still have to do my action item ←
14:13:25 <sandro> action-4?
14:13:25 <trackbot> ACTION-4 -- Steve Speicher to review SPARQL Graph Store Protocol and suggest how we should move forward with it -- due 2012-09-03 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-4 -- Steve Speicher to review SPARQL Graph Store Protocol and suggest how we should move forward with it -- due 2012-09-03 -- OPEN ←
14:13:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/4
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/4 ←
14:13:50 <SteveS> Topic: SteveS slacking on ACTION-4
14:14:04 <SteveS> SteveS to get to in next week or so
SteveS to get to in next week or so ←
14:14:25 <SteveS> Topic: Action reviews
14:15:00 <oberger> reminder : no meeting next week (Labour day in the US)
Olivier Berger: reminder : no meeting next week (Labour day in the US) ←
14:15:01 <SteveS> bblfish will get to action-5
bblfish will get to ACTION-5 ←
14:15:41 <SteveS> No update on ACTION-6, Michael had sent regrets for today
No update on ACTION-6, Michael had sent regrets for today ←
14:16:33 <SteveS> Topic: Upcoming meetings
14:16:35 <SteveS> Arnaud: Next telecon is in 2 weeks, September 10
Arnaud Le Hors: Next telecon is in 2 weeks, September 10 ←
14:17:21 <SteveS> sandro: looked into f2f room sizings for larger group, need WG members to actually register
Sandro Hawke: looked into f2f room sizings for larger group, need WG members to actually register ←
14:18:14 <SteveS> …can get a bigger room if registration counts are high enough
…can get a bigger room if registration counts are high enough ←
14:18:35 <Zakim> +??P33
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P33 ←
14:18:44 <SteveS> sandro: recommends attending Wed sessions, many find it very valuable
Sandro Hawke: recommends attending Wed sessions, many find it very valuable ←
14:18:51 <BartvanLeeuwen> :)
Bart van Leeuwen: :) ←
14:18:59 <ghard> zakim, P33 is ghard
Yrjana Rankka: zakim, P33 is ghard ←
14:18:59 <Zakim> sorry, ghard, I do not recognize a party named 'P33'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ghard, I do not recognize a party named 'P33' ←
14:19:16 <sandro> Zakim, ??P33 is ghard
Sandro Hawke: Zakim, ??P33 is ghard ←
14:19:16 <Zakim> +ghard; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ghard; got it ←
14:19:23 <ghard> Excuses for being late. Got network stability problems.
Yrjana Rankka: Excuses for being late. Got network stability problems. ←
14:19:25 <SteveS> …costs about $50 USD / day for F2F
…costs about $50 USD / day for F2F ←
14:19:53 <Zakim> +Kalpa
Zakim IRC Bot: +Kalpa ←
14:20:01 <SteveS> ??? asked bblfish if room or something planned for f2f with WebID
??? asked bblfish if room or something planned for f2f with WebID ←
14:20:15 <oberger> SteveS: ??? was me
Steve Speicher: oberger was me [ Scribe Assist by Olivier Berger ] ←
14:20:34 <SteveS> s/???/oberger/
14:20:37 <sandro> €45 until the close of registration (16 October 2012)
Sandro Hawke: €45 until the close of registration (16 October 2012) ←
14:21:01 <SteveS> Topic: Use Cases and Requirements structure
14:21:15 <oberger> Zakim, mute me
Olivier Berger: Zakim, mute me ←
14:21:15 <Zakim> oberger should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: oberger should now be muted ←
14:21:16 <bblfish> So I am looking to organise a meeting for WebID and RWW Community Groups at TPAC Lyon, but we are still looking to see if we can get a room.
Henry Story: So I am looking to organise a meeting for WebID and RWW Community Groups at TPAC Lyon, but we are still looking to see if we can get a room. ←
14:21:16 <SteveS> This is topic ACTION-9
14:21:36 <bblfish> But otherwise I will look to see if we can organise something anyway in Lyon.
Henry Story: But otherwise I will look to see if we can organise something anyway in Lyon. ←
14:22:11 <SteveS> Here's the proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Aug/0137.html
Here's the proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Aug/0137.html ←
14:22:39 <SteveS> Arnaud: positive comments from a number looking to hear if any other feedback
Arnaud Le Hors: positive comments from a number looking to hear if any other feedback ←
14:23:10 <SteveS> SteveBattle: has updated the wiki to take into account this change
Steve Battle: has updated the wiki to take into account this change ←
14:23:25 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Use_Cases_And_Requirements
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Use_Cases_And_Requirements ←
14:23:49 <SteveS> namely changing Use Cases to User Stories, in prep for collecting use cases
namely changing Use Cases to User Stories, in prep for collecting use cases ←
14:24:38 <oberger> SteveS: /me added the link to the action in https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/9
Steve Speicher: /me added the link to the action in https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/9 [ Scribe Assist by Olivier Berger ] ←
14:24:57 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
Bart van Leeuwen: q+ ←
14:25:17 <SteveS> …plan is to expand on the User Stories, then pull out the more detailed Use Cases and the more detailed Requirements
…plan is to expand on the User Stories, then pull out the more detailed Use Cases and the more detailed Requirements ←
14:25:22 <Arnaud> ack bart
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bart ←
14:25:45 <SteveS> BartvanLeeuwen: Are the use cases/stories still open for contributions?
Bart van Leeuwen: Are the use cases/stories still open for contributions? ←
14:26:00 <SteveS> SteveBattle: Yes
Steve Battle: Yes ←
14:26:05 <bblfish> good so I suppose my action item should be a user story
Henry Story: good so I suppose my action item should be a user story ←
14:26:09 <bblfish> or integrated with one
Henry Story: or integrated with one ←
14:26:55 <SteveS> SteveBattle: Assumes these will be very "CRUDy" based on the scope of this WG
Steve Battle: Assumes these will be very "CRUDy" based on the scope of this WG ←
14:28:09 <SteveS> ACTION: SteveBattle to Create at least one Use Case by next meeting due 9/10/2012
ACTION: SteveBattle to Create at least one Use Case by next meeting due 9/10/2012 ←
14:28:09 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - SteveBattle
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - SteveBattle ←
14:29:09 <SteveS> Arnaud: proposed to close action-9
Arnaud Le Hors: proposed to close ACTION-9 ←
14:29:19 <SteveS> close action-9
14:29:19 <trackbot> ACTION-9 Propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-9 Propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document closed ←
14:29:47 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
14:30:20 <SteveS> SteveBattle: SteveS and Michael (not on call) are interested in developing out the use cases more?
Steve Battle: SteveS and Michael (not on call) are interested in developing out the use cases more? ←
14:30:23 <SteveS> SteveS: Yes
Steve Speicher: Yes ←
14:31:32 <SteveS> Topic: Serialization format discussion and process
14:32:25 <SteveS> Arnaud: how does the process work for raising issues, like serialization format, and get reviewed and agreed on
Arnaud Le Hors: how does the process work for raising issues, like serialization format, and get reviewed and agreed on ←
14:33:15 <SteveS> sandro: someone raises (creates) an issue in the system, it goes into a pending state, then the WG decides if they accept the issue (something they will work on or valid) and it becomes open
Sandro Hawke: someone raises (creates) an issue in the system, it goes into a pending state, then the WG decides if they accept the issue (something they will work on or valid) and it becomes open ←
14:33:26 <SteveS> …the WG then works on a resolution
…the WG then works on a resolution ←
14:35:09 <Zakim> -Arthur_Keen
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arthur_Keen ←
14:35:14 <SteveS> Arnaud: believes that by definition of our charter and references to member submission, then we can start with that and open issues from there and get WG agreement
Arnaud Le Hors: believes that by definition of our charter and references to member submission, then we can start with that and open issues from there and get WG agreement ←
14:35:31 <Zakim> +RezaBfar
Zakim IRC Bot: +RezaBfar ←
14:36:31 <Zakim> +ArthurK
Zakim IRC Bot: +ArthurK ←
14:36:49 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
14:36:57 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
14:37:00 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:37:00 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
14:37:03 <SteveBattle> q+
Steve Battle: q+ ←
14:37:07 <RezaBFar> @Arnaud - sorry I'm late...
Reza B'Far: @Arnaud - sorry I'm late... ←
14:37:16 <SteveS> Arnaud: need to make sure the work we do with perhaps a more abstract model then we need to make sure we map it back to RDF model
Arnaud Le Hors: need to make sure the work we do with perhaps a more abstract model then we need to make sure we map it back to RDF model ←
14:37:23 <MacTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
14:37:46 <oberger> bblfish: ?
Henry Story: ? [ Scribe Assist by Olivier Berger ] ←
14:38:00 <bblfish> http://webid.info/spec/
Henry Story: http://webid.info/spec/ ←
14:38:48 <RezaBFar> q+
Reza B'Far: q+ ←
14:39:13 <SteveS> bblfish: Expressed my thoughts on this and around the WebID spec. Did require a publish to N3 and clients understand both N3 and RDF/XML
Henry Story: Expressed my thoughts on this and around the WebID spec. Did require a publish to N3 and clients understand both N3 and RDF/XML ←
14:39:31 <bblfish> GRDDL
Henry Story: GRDDL ←
14:39:36 <bblfish> XSPARQL
Henry Story: XSPARQL ←
14:39:51 <SteveS> …would like to add that there is a requirement to support GRDDL for expressing what is supported
…would like to add that there is a requirement to support GRDDL for expressing what is supported ←
14:40:19 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
14:40:42 <SteveS> …it is not reasonable to convert some forms not into RDF
…it is not reasonable to convert some forms not into RDF ←
14:41:06 <SteveS> q+
q+ ←
14:41:23 <Arnaud> ack SteveBattle
Arnaud Le Hors: ack SteveBattle ←
14:41:58 <bblfish> I think turtle is also a standard now http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/
Henry Story: I think turtle is also a standard now http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/ ←
14:41:58 <RezaBFar> +1 to SteveBattle. That's exactly what I'm looking for.
Reza B'Far: +1 to SteveBattle. That's exactly what I'm looking for. ←
14:42:04 <SteveS> SteveBattle: +1 for openness of serialization of RDF models, would like to support at least one. RDF/XML is reasonable as only W3C Rec spec, perhaps we have at least 1 minimum required
Steve Battle: +1 for openness of serialization of RDF models, would like to support at least one. RDF/XML is reasonable as only W3C Rec spec, perhaps we have at least 1 minimum required ←
14:42:27 <SteveS> …server could expose what it supports
…server could expose what it supports ←
14:42:41 <AndyS> N3 goes beyond RDF - to be clear here, lets stick to the (soon to be) standard turtle.
Andy Seaborne: N3 goes beyond RDF - to be clear here, lets stick to the (soon to be) standard turtle. ←
14:43:05 <AndyS> N-triples will also be standardised by RDF-WG.
Andy Seaborne: N-triples will also be standardised by RDF-WG. ←
14:43:25 <Ruben> There's no advantage in this scenario to N3 instead of Turtle.
Ruben Verborgh: There's no advantage in this scenario to N3 instead of Turtle. ←
14:43:31 <SteveS> MacTed: says that Arnaud mentioned limit options, but believes we need to be more open to extensibility
Ted Thibodeau: says that Arnaud mentioned limit options, but believes we need to be more open to extensibility ←
14:43:34 <SteveBattle> That's interesting - I didn't know N3 went beyond RDF.
Steve Battle: That's interesting - I didn't know N3 went beyond RDF. ←
14:43:43 <Ruben> N3 adds quantification and variables.
Ruben Verborgh: N3 adds quantification and variables. ←
14:44:01 <RezaBFar> So, I think there is 3 things: 1. Some standard query as part of the spec that provides format (so serialization format discovery) 2. Allowance for implementation of serialization of other formats. 3. Implementing at least 2 formats, 1 of which is RDF/XML, the other which we could agree on as a team.
Reza B'Far: So, I think there is 3 things: 1. Some standard query as part of the spec that provides format (so serialization format discovery) 2. Allowance for implementation of serialization of other formats. 3. Implementing at least 2 formats, 1 of which is RDF/XML, the other which we could agree on as a team. ←
14:44:38 <SteveS> MacTed: resource creation (POST) is that a server can chose to reject or handle that request as needed (transform or handle as is)
Ted Thibodeau: resource creation (POST) is that a server can chose to reject or handle that request as needed (transform or handle as is) ←
14:44:40 <MacTed> ack me
Ted Thibodeau: ack me ←
14:44:45 <oberger> MacTed: I didn't get your concern abouut RDF+XML...
Ted Thibodeau: I didn't get your concern abouut RDF+XML... [ Scribe Assist by Olivier Berger ] ←
14:44:53 <oberger> would like to see a transcript
Olivier Berger: would like to see a transcript ←
14:45:02 <SteveBattle> What can't be encoded in RDF/XML?
Steve Battle: What can't be encoded in RDF/XML? ←
14:45:13 <oberger> SteveBattle: that one yes
Steve Battle: that one yes [ Scribe Assist by Olivier Berger ] ←
14:45:31 <AndyS> Properties with URIs that aren't representable as qnames e.g. http://example/1234
Andy Seaborne: Properties with URIs that aren't representable as qnames e.g. http://example/1234 ←
14:46:16 <SteveS> Arnaud: not against building an extensible spec but more on the point when there are too many options to achieve same/similar things
Arnaud Le Hors: not against building an extensible spec but more on the point when there are too many options to achieve same/similar things ←
14:46:26 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
14:46:28 <AndyS> and http://example/property# and a few other cases. Tend to be unusual but can be tricky at scale if it gets into the data.
Andy Seaborne: and http://example/property# and a few other cases. Tend to be unusual but can be tricky at scale if it gets into the data. ←
14:46:43 <Arnaud> ack Reza
Arnaud Le Hors: ack Reza ←
14:47:16 <oberger> RezaBFar: what problem ?
Reza B'Far: what problem ? [ Scribe Assist by Olivier Berger ] ←
14:47:24 <SteveS> RezaBFar: Agrees with SteveBattle, doesn't see the need to limit to RDF/XML and have additional format
Reza B'Far: Agrees with SteveBattle, doesn't see the need to limit to RDF/XML and have additional format ←
14:47:34 <oberger> verbosity ?
Olivier Berger: verbosity ? ←
14:47:56 <SteveS> ….XML processing has some overhead and should consider less-verbose options for efficiency
….XML processing has some overhead and should consider less-verbose options for efficiency ←
14:48:12 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
14:48:22 <oberger> JSON-LD would be very much appealing to all the Web2 devs
Olivier Berger: JSON-LD would be very much appealing to all the Web2 devs ←
14:48:32 <oberger> YAML ? ;)
Olivier Berger: YAML ? ;) ←
14:48:48 <sandro> oberger, more appealing than RDF/XML or than Turtle?
Sandro Hawke: oberger, more appealing than RDF/XML or than Turtle? ←
14:49:05 <oberger> sandro: people who do native JS ? probably
Olivier Berger: sandro, people who do native JS ? probably ←
14:49:19 <sandro> s/sandro:/sandro,/
14:49:26 <MacTed> concern with RDF/XML: cannot serialize all RDF ... as AndyS says. see http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/n3/venn
Ted Thibodeau: concern with RDF/XML: cannot serialize all RDF ... as AndyS says. see http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/n3/venn ←
14:49:50 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
14:49:57 <sandro> oberger, I was asking an (a) or (b) question, but I guess your answer is "both".
Sandro Hawke: oberger, I was asking an (a) or (b) question, but I guess your answer is "both". ←
14:50:19 <oberger> sandro: sure, both : no extra parsing
Olivier Berger: sandro, sure, both : no extra parsing ←
14:50:22 <bblfish> So to summarise my point earlier:
Henry Story: So to summarise my point earlier: ←
14:50:22 <bblfish> 1. Turtle ( http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/ ) or RDFxml perhaps a SHOULD ( on the http://webid.info/spec/ Turtle, RDFa, RDFxml were made MUST understand by client -- Turtle, RDFxml should be sent by server )
Henry Story: 1. Turtle ( http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/ ) or RDFxml perhaps a SHOULD ( on the http://webid.info/spec/ Turtle, RDFa, RDFxml were made MUST understand by client -- Turtle, RDFxml should be sent by server ) ←
14:50:22 <bblfish> 2. Other formats should be supported but there should be a follow your nose to a GRDDL http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/ so that one can automatically transforrm it to RDF graphs
Henry Story: 2. Other formats should be supported but there should be a follow your nose to a GRDDL http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/ so that one can automatically transforrm it to RDF graphs ←
14:50:24 <bblfish> 3. there is a complicating issue as this LDP requires PUT & POST which means that the server does need to be able to understand the formats sent.
Henry Story: 3. there is a complicating issue as this LDP requires PUT & POST which means that the server does need to be able to understand the formats sent. ←
14:50:25 <Arnaud> ack SteveS
Arnaud Le Hors: ack SteveS ←
14:50:26 <bblfish> 4. there will be some form of Graph query which will require that the format be queryable as a graph
Henry Story: 4. there will be some form of Graph query which will require that the format be queryable as a graph ←
14:50:32 <SteveS> ISSUE: Determine minimum serialization format for RDF data model
ISSUE: Determine minimum serialization format for RDF data model ←
14:50:32 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-1 - Determine minimum serialization format for RDF data model ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/1/edit .
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-1 - Determine minimum serialization format for RDF data model ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/1/edit . ←
14:50:34 <RezaBFar> Question: so now that it's an issue, what's next?
Reza B'Far: Question: so now that it's an issue, what's next? ←
14:50:39 <sandro> s/sandro:/sandro,/
14:50:53 <RezaBFar> @Arnaud - how do we resolve the issue since it's a significant issue.
Reza B'Far: @Arnaud - how do we resolve the issue since it's a significant issue. ←
14:50:57 <AndyS> (caution - that diagram is confusion - Turtle can express any RDF - the reification point is not the point - it's old special syntax)
Andy Seaborne: (caution - that diagram is confusion - Turtle can express any RDF - the reification point is not the point - it's old special syntax) ←
14:51:42 <oberger> we can move on when everybody's back from vacation more or less ?
Olivier Berger: we can move on when everybody's back from vacation more or less ? ←
14:51:45 <RezaBFar> @Arnaud - Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
Reza B'Far: @Arnaud - Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. ←
14:52:05 <SteveS> Arnaud: answering RezaBFar, need to have a proposal and reach consensus on the issue and record it
Arnaud Le Hors: answering RezaBFar, need to have a proposal and reach consensus on the issue and record it ←
14:53:02 <SteveS> sandro: can be good collect more facts on the matter and may need to get to point where just need to pick one
Sandro Hawke: can be good collect more facts on the matter and may need to get to point where just need to pick one ←
14:53:09 <RezaBFar> @sandro - thanks.
Reza B'Far: @sandro - thanks. ←
14:53:30 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
14:53:30 <RezaBFar> Sandro's opinion?
Reza B'Far: Sandro's opinion? ←
14:53:47 <oberger> next in 2 weeks ?
Olivier Berger: next in 2 weeks ? ←
14:53:47 <RezaBFar> on RDF/XML, etc.? Sandro was saying something?
Reza B'Far: on RDF/XML, etc.? Sandro was saying something? ←
14:54:02 <SteveS> Arnaud: any other agenda items?
Arnaud Le Hors: any other agenda items? ←
14:54:38 <oberger> sandro, my suggestion on JSON-LD is purely speculative
Olivier Berger: sandro, my suggestion on JSON-LD is purely speculative ←
14:54:41 <SteveS> sandro: is a big win in mental clarity on a simple format but think still open in my mind if JSON-LD meets that
Sandro Hawke: is a big win in mental clarity on a simple format but think still open in my mind if JSON-LD meets that ←
14:55:45 <SteveS> sandro: if I had to pick something right now, it would be Turtle but may be things I'm forgetting about RDF/XML
Sandro Hawke: if I had to pick something right now, it would be Turtle but may be things I'm forgetting about RDF/XML ←
14:56:17 <MacTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
14:57:03 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1 to bblfish remarks to JSON-LD remark
Bart van Leeuwen: +1 to bblfish remarks to JSON-LD remark ←
14:57:09 <SteveS> bblfish: Wonder if there is anything around efficiency with XML binary formats that apply with RDF/XML
Henry Story: Wonder if there is anything around efficiency with XML binary formats that apply with RDF/XML ←
14:57:35 <RezaBFar> FWIW, I agree with Sandro on Turtle.
Reza B'Far: FWIW, I agree with Sandro on Turtle. ←
14:58:25 <MacTed> ... s/JSON-GRDDL/JSON-LD/
Ted Thibodeau: ... s/JSON-GRDDL/JSON-LD/ ←
14:58:33 <SteveS> bblfish: question to JSON people, when you publish in json-grddl can be represented as any tree as root of graph and could it confuse them?
Henry Story: question to JSON people, when you publish in json-grddl can be represented as any tree as root of graph and could it confuse them? ←
14:59:03 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:59:03 <Zakim> MacTed was not muted, MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed was not muted, MacTed ←
14:59:45 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
14:59:52 <sandro> q+ to propose strawpoll
Sandro Hawke: q+ to propose strawpoll ←
14:59:58 <SteveS> MacTed: was in JSON-LD group, started as a way to get JSON people who are using structured data in a more interoperable ways based on RDF concepts
Ted Thibodeau: was in JSON-LD group, started as a way to get JSON people who are using structured data in a more interoperable ways based on RDF concepts ←
15:00:23 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:00:46 <SteveS> MacTed: for some similar implementations Turtle makes it very easy but lacks some of the RDF concepts, as linked to before
Ted Thibodeau: for some similar implementations Turtle makes it very easy but lacks some of the RDF concepts, as linked to before ←
15:00:46 <oberger> Turtle is great to read by humans, discovering specs, but in all languages ?
Olivier Berger: Turtle is great to read by humans, discovering specs, but in all languages ? ←
15:01:01 <Arnaud> ack Ted
Arnaud Le Hors: ack Ted ←
15:01:08 <MacTed> ack me
Ted Thibodeau: ack me ←
15:01:08 <bblfish> +1 for Turtle as base, easier to understand
Henry Story: +1 for Turtle as base, easier to understand ←
15:01:20 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Which one RDF serialization should we pick as our 1-required-serialization, if we had to pick one today? (eg rdf/xml, turtle, json-ld, RDFa, or NONE)
STRAWPOLL: Which one RDF serialization should we pick as our 1-required-serialization, if we had to pick one today? (eg rdf/xml, turtle, json-ld, RDFa, or NONE) ←
15:01:24 <AndyS> Turtle can express any RDF.
Andy Seaborne: Turtle can express any RDF. ←
15:01:26 <sandro> turtle
Sandro Hawke: turtle ←
15:01:27 <RezaBFar> Turtle
Reza B'Far: Turtle ←
15:01:28 <bblfish> +1 Turtle
Henry Story: +1 Turtle ←
15:01:29 <BartvanLeeuwen> Turtle
Bart van Leeuwen: Turtle ←
15:01:29 <oberger> RDF+XML
Olivier Berger: RDF+XML ←
15:01:32 <MacTed> Turtle
Ted Thibodeau: Turtle ←
15:01:33 <AndyS> Turtle
Andy Seaborne: Turtle ←
15:01:37 <ArthurK> turtle
Arthur Keen: turtle ←
15:01:39 <oberger> for implementation
Olivier Berger: for implementation ←
15:01:41 <SteveS> sandro: straw man poll of preferred RDF serialization
Sandro Hawke: straw man poll of preferred RDF serialization ←
15:01:43 <SteveBattle> (turtle and rdf/XML)
Steve Battle: (turtle and rdf/XML) ←
15:01:43 <SteveS> Turtle
Turtle ←
15:01:52 <Kalpa> rdf/XML
Kalpa Gunaratna: rdf/XML ←
15:01:58 <RezaBFar> So, I meant (Turtle and RDF/XML)
Reza B'Far: So, I meant (Turtle and RDF/XML) ←
15:02:00 <MacTed> AndyS - any chance you can rework that Venn with current status? possibly including JSON-LD?
Ted Thibodeau: AndyS - any chance you can rework that Venn with current status? possibly including JSON-LD? ←
15:02:14 <MacTed> there may be other serializations that didn't exist when it was drawn that should also be added in...
Ted Thibodeau: there may be other serializations that didn't exist when it was drawn that should also be added in... ←
15:02:29 <bblfish> well rdf/xml would be a SHOULD
Henry Story: well rdf/xml would be a SHOULD ←
15:02:35 <oberger> which libs are turtle compatible ?
Olivier Berger: which libs are turtle compatible ? ←
15:02:50 <Arnaud> ack sandro
Arnaud Le Hors: ack sandro ←
15:02:50 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to propose strawpoll
Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to propose strawpoll ←
15:03:04 <Arnaud> andy?
Arnaud Le Hors: andy? ←
15:03:32 <Arnaud> ack andy
Arnaud Le Hors: ack andy ←
15:03:34 <SteveS> AndyS: found the diagram was someones opinion for a long time ago and not right
Andy Seaborne: found the diagram was someones opinion for a long time ago and not right ←
15:03:41 <SteveS> sandro: agrees
Sandro Hawke: agrees ←
15:03:48 <SteveS> MacTed: would like to see it updated
Ted Thibodeau: would like to see it updated ←
15:03:52 <oberger> bye
Olivier Berger: bye ←
15:03:52 <Zakim> -bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish ←
15:03:54 <SteveBattle> bye
Steve Battle: bye ←
15:03:56 <BartvanLeeuwen> thanks and bye
Bart van Leeuwen: thanks and bye ←
15:03:56 <Zakim> -RezaBfar
Zakim IRC Bot: -RezaBfar ←
15:03:56 <bblfish> bye
Henry Story: bye ←
15:03:57 <ghard> bye
Yrjana Rankka: bye ←
15:03:58 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
15:03:59 <Kalpa> bye
Kalpa Gunaratna: bye ←
15:04:01 <Zakim> -Yves
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yves ←
15:04:02 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
15:04:02 <Zakim> -SteveBattle
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveBattle ←
15:04:02 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:04:04 <Zakim> -SteveS
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS ←
15:04:06 <Zakim> -sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro ←
15:04:07 <Zakim> -ghard
Zakim IRC Bot: -ghard ←
15:04:07 <Zakim> -oberger
Zakim IRC Bot: -oberger ←
15:04:10 <Zakim> - +44.754.550.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: - +44.754.550.aacc ←
15:04:14 <Zakim> -ArthurK
Zakim IRC Bot: -ArthurK ←
15:04:16 <Zakim> -Kalpa
Zakim IRC Bot: -Kalpa ←
15:04:17 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended ←
15:04:17 <Zakim> Attendees were sandro, oberger, MacTed, SteveS, Arthur_Keen, AndyS, +1.510.698.aaaa, +1.617.324.aabb, Yves, bblfish, Arnaud, +44.754.550.aacc, SteveBattle, ghard, Kalpa, RezaBfar,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were sandro, oberger, MacTed, SteveS, Arthur_Keen, AndyS, +1.510.698.aaaa, +1.617.324.aabb, Yves, bblfish, Arnaud, +44.754.550.aacc, SteveBattle, ghard, Kalpa, RezaBfar, ←
15:04:18 <Zakim> ... ArthurK
Zakim IRC Bot: ... ArthurK ←
15:04:49 <sandro> MacTed, note that http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/n3/venn is about expressibility, not RDF. Full N3 and SPARQL WHERE include lots of things that are not, and never will be, RDF.
Sandro Hawke: MacTed, note that http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/n3/venn is about expressibility, not RDF. Full N3 and SPARQL WHERE include lots of things that are not, and never will be, RDF. ←
15:04:50 <SteveS> rssagent, generate minutes
rssagent, generate minutes ←
15:06:11 <SteveS> RRSAgent, generate minutes
RRSAgent, generate minutes ←
15:06:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/27-ldp-minutes.html SteveS
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/27-ldp-minutes.html SteveS ←
15:08:03 <oberger> sandro: well, maybe a localization thing ?
Sandro Hawke: well, maybe a localization thing ? [ Scribe Assist by Olivier Berger ] ←
15:08:15 <sandro> SteveS, are you happy with http://www.w3.org/2008/06/wiki_scribe/?source=http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Chatlog_2012-08-27 ?
Sandro Hawke: SteveS, are you happy with http://www.w3.org/2008/06/wiki_scribe/?source=http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Chatlog_2012-08-27 ? ←
15:08:52 <sandro> oberger, more likely a setting I changed and forgot.
Sandro Hawke: oberger, more likely a setting I changed and forgot. ←
15:09:05 <oberger> sandro: same with LANG=C xchat
Sandro Hawke: same with LANG=C xchat [ Scribe Assist by Olivier Berger ] ←
15:09:20 <sandro> the problem is I want comma when I'm not scribing and colon when I am scribing.
Sandro Hawke: the problem is I want comma when I'm not scribing and colon when I am scribing. ←
15:09:59 <SteveS> sandro, that would going to be my question if you were trying to change my scribe entries
sandro, that would going to be my question if you were trying to change my scribe entries ←
15:10:19 <oberger> sandro, indeed, a preferences setting :-)
Olivier Berger: sandro, indeed, a preferences setting :-) ←
15:10:33 <oberger> well, I'll know what to do when in the next meeting
Olivier Berger: well, I'll know what to do when in the next meeting ←
15:10:34 <SteveS> sandro, I'm fairly "happy"….guess I need to hack the few errors noted in there
sandro, I'm fairly "happy"….guess I need to hack the few errors noted in there ←
15:11:23 <sandro> :-)
Sandro Hawke: :-) ←
15:11:50 <MacTed> sandro - yes, I understand that the VENN is about what can be expressed in each serialization. as has been noted, it was drawn a long time ago, and no longer (if it ever did) accurately depicts the differences between the serializations. I think redrawing it with explicit focus on "how much of `All RDF` can be expressed in/with this serialization?" including new serializations (e.g., JSDON-LD) and updates of old (e.g., Turtle)
Ted Thibodeau: sandro - yes, I understand that the VENN is about what can be expressed in each serialization. as has been noted, it was drawn a long time ago, and no longer (if it ever did) accurately depicts the differences between the serializations. I think redrawing it with explicit focus on "how much of `All RDF` can be expressed in/with this serialization?" including new serializations (e.g., JSDON-LD) and updates of old (e.g., Turtle) ←
15:11:50 <MacTed> would be useful.
Ted Thibodeau: would be useful. ←
15:12:53 <sandro> MacTed, my understanding is there's no need, as Turtle, RDFa, JSON-LD and N-Triples can all express all of RDF. RDF/XML lacks a few bits that no one should ever put in their RDF anyway.
Sandro Hawke: MacTed, my understanding is there's no need, as Turtle, RDF+XMLa, JSON-LD and N-Triples can all express all of RDF+XML. RDF+XML/XML lacks a few bits that no one should ever put in their RDF+XML anyway. ←
15:13:09 <oberger> s/RDF/RDF+XML/
15:14:08 <oberger> anyway... what's the ETA for implementations ? ;)
Olivier Berger: anyway... what's the ETA for implementations ? ;) ←
15:15:52 <MacTed> 1999 ;-)
Ted Thibodeau: 1999 ;-) ←
15:20:15 <AndyS> The current RDF-WG has no plans to change RDF/XML.
Andy Seaborne: The current RDF-WG has no plans to change RDF/XML. ←
15:20:35 <AndyS> (roughly - no one wants to touch it!)
Andy Seaborne: (roughly - no one wants to touch it!) ←
15:20:59 <MacTed> I suppose the need I see for updating the VENN is that leaving it as is promotes continued incorrect understanding.
Ted Thibodeau: I suppose the need I see for updating the VENN is that leaving it as is promotes continued incorrect understanding. ←
15:22:00 <MacTed> granted, it's no longer live-displayed in the N3 design issue ... but it's relatively well known and still live if you know to look for it
Ted Thibodeau: granted, it's no longer live-displayed in the N3 design issue ... but it's relatively well known and still live if you know to look for it ←
15:23:17 <oberger> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=RDF+Turtle&word2=RDF+XML :-)
Olivier Berger: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=RDF+Turtle&word2=RDF+XML :-) ←
17:44:59 <gavinc> 7am Monday morning telecons suck
(No events recorded for 141 minutes)
Gavin Carothers: 7am Monday morning telecons suck ←
19:23:59 <MacTed> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=RDF+Turtle&word2=%22RDF%2FXML%22
(No events recorded for 99 minutes)
Ted Thibodeau: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=RDF+Turtle&word2=%22RDF%2FXML%22 ←
19:24:47 <MacTed> strange how Google doesn't count `"RDF/XML"` in the same way as it does `RDF XML`...
Ted Thibodeau: strange how Google doesn't count `"RDF/XML"` in the same way as it does `RDF XML`... ←
Formatted by CommonScribe