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GLD Face to Face meeting Day 1

Minutes of 11 April 2013

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/F2F3#DRAFT_Agenda
Seen
Bart van Leeuwen, Bernadette Hyland, Biplav Srivastava, Boris Villazón-Terrazas, Christophe Gueret, Dave Reynolds, Deirdre Lee, Fadi Maali, Ghislain Atemezing, Hadley Beeman, Makx Dekkers, Martín Álvarez, Michael Pendleton, Phil Archer, Richard Cyganiak, Sandro Hawke
Chair
Bernadette Hyland
Scribe
Fadi Maali, Deirdre Lee, Bernadette Hyland, Phil Archer, Hadley Beeman
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. The WG aims to publish Best Practices as a W3C Note. link
  2. Best Practices will (at most) only very briefly discuss "1. Procurement", "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ". Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki. We don't have the time/expertise to do more. link
  3. We keep the qb:HierarchicalCodeList and DaveReynolds explaining the reasoning for this link
Topics
08:05:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-irc

08:06:19 <PhilA3> zakim, dial GLDMeetingRoom

Phil Archer: zakim, dial GLDMeetingRoom

08:06:19 <Zakim> sorry, PhilA3, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, PhilA3, I don't know what conference this is

08:06:25 <PhilA3> zakim, this is gld

Phil Archer: zakim, this is gld

08:06:25 <Zakim> ok, PhilA3; that matches T&S_(GLD)3:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA3; that matches T&S_(GLD)3:00AM

08:06:33 <PhilA3> zakim, dial GLDMeetingRoom

Phil Archer: zakim, dial GLDMeetingRoom

08:06:33 <Zakim> ok, PhilA3; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA3; the call is being made

08:06:34 <Zakim> +GLDMeetingRoom

Zakim IRC Bot: +GLDMeetingRoom

08:07:04 <PhilA3> we are connected to zakim

Phil Archer: we are connected to zakim

08:07:23 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?

Bernadette Hyland: zakim, who is on the call?

08:07:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, +34.63.926.aaaa, GLDMeetingRoom

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P0, +34.63.926.aaaa, GLDMeetingRoom

08:07:43 <MakxDekkers> zakim, aaaa is me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, aaaa is me

08:07:43 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers; got it

08:07:53 <HadleyBeeman> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/F2F3
08:08:09 <MakxDekkers> I am in Barcelona, late start 10 am

Makx Dekkers: I am in Barcelona, late start 10 am

08:08:14 <martinA> zakim, ??p0 is me

Martín Álvarez: zakim, ??p0 is me

08:08:14 <Zakim> +martinA; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +martinA; got it

08:08:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

08:09:58 <MakxDekkers> can we get visual maybe through skype?

Makx Dekkers: can we get visual maybe through skype?

08:11:56 <MakxDekkers> my apologies for falling ill, would have loved to be there

Makx Dekkers: my apologies for falling ill, would have loved to be there

08:12:22 <PhilA3> zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has bhyland, BartvanLeeuwen, cygri, Christophe, PhilA3

Phil Archer: zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has bhyland, BartvanLeeuwen, cygri, Christophe, PhilA3

08:12:23 <Zakim> +bhyland, BartvanLeeuwen, cygri, Christophe, PhilA3; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bhyland, BartvanLeeuwen, cygri, Christophe, PhilA3; got it

08:12:44 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has me

Hadley Beeman: zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has me

08:12:44 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +HadleyBeeman; got it

08:12:51 <PhilA> chair: Bernadette
08:13:06 <PhilA> meeting: GLD Face to Face meeting Day 1
08:13:32 <PhilA> PhilA has changed the topic to: GLD Face to Face meeting day 1, Croke Park Dublin

Phil Archer: PhilA has changed the topic to: GLD Face to Face meeting day 1, Croke Park Dublin

08:14:05 <PhilA> topic: Quick review of European data Forum

1. Quick review of European data Forum

08:14:14 <PhilA> rrsagent, make logs public

Phil Archer: rrsagent, make logs public

08:14:39 <PhilA> bhyland: Invites those who were at the EDF to give a quick review

Bernadette Hyland: Invites those who were at the EDF to give a quick review [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:15:19 <PhilA> Christophe: Lots of people saying that big data is just data. Goof talk from Siemens.

Christophe Gueret: Lots of people saying that big data is just data. Goof talk from Siemens. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:15:25 <PhilA> ... I did a demo on the 2nd day

Phil Archer: ... I did a demo on the 2nd day

08:15:36 <PhilA> ... had lots of visits from Dutch people

Phil Archer: ... had lots of visits from Dutch people

08:15:58 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: It was interesting. less tech than I usually go to, more polcy than I'm used to

Bart van Leeuwen: It was interesting. less tech than I usually go to, more polcy than I'm used to [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:16:16 <PhilA> ... lots of stuff about big data but there was a lot about semantics of data

Phil Archer: ... lots of stuff about big data but there was a lot about semantics of data

08:16:32 <PhilA> ... lots of talks about linked data and big data in the same project

Phil Archer: ... lots of talks about linked data and big data in the same project

08:16:48 <PhilA> ... blown away by talk from Daimler - who knew they were using linked data

Phil Archer: ... blown away by talk from Daimler - who knew they were using linked data

08:17:58 <PhilA> bhyland: So good to hear the Daimler CEO coming out and using the term linked data. Very polished promotional piece may or may not be accurate reflection

Bernadette Hyland: So good to hear the Daimler CEO coming out and using the term linked data. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:18:08 <PhilA> zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has Boris

Phil Archer: zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has Boris

08:18:08 <Zakim> +Boris; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Boris; got it

08:18:37 <PhilA> Boris: +1 to Bart. People were asking about best practices for LD

Boris Villazón-Terrazas: +1 to Bart. People were asking about best practices for LD [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:19:03 <PhilA> bhyland: Have you put your company in the directory, Boris?

Bernadette Hyland: Have you put your company in the directory, Boris? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:19:20 <PhilA> Boris: Not yet, I thought it was gov only. Will fix

Boris Villazón-Terrazas: Not yet, I thought it was gov only. Will fix [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:19:40 <MakxDekkers> zakim, mute me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, mute me

08:19:40 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should now be muted

08:19:52 <PhilA> cygri: I only saw the second half of the second day. Great venue

Richard Cyganiak: I only saw the second half of the second day. Great venue [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:20:01 <PhilA> s/Very polished promotional piece may or may not be accurate reflection//
08:20:35 <PhilA> cygri: I've only known Croke Park as a sports venue. Weird irish sports get played here. Didn't know about the conference centre

Richard Cyganiak: I've only known Croke Park as a sports venue. Weird irish sports get played here. Didn't know about the conference centre [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:20:51 <PhilA> bhyland: Europe's 4th largest stadium 82K people

Bernadette Hyland: Europe's 4th largest stadium 82K people [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:21:28 <PhilA> cygri: Hurling is the biggie here - a cross between hockey and murder

Richard Cyganiak: Hurling is the biggie here - a cross between hockey and murder [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:22:24 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?

Phil Archer: zakim, who is here?

08:22:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see martinA, MakxDekkers (muted), GLDMeetingRoom, DaveReynolds

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see martinA, MakxDekkers (muted), GLDMeetingRoom, DaveReynolds

08:22:26 <Zakim> GLDMeetingRoom has Boris

Zakim IRC Bot: GLDMeetingRoom has Boris

08:22:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see boris, cygri, BartvanLeeuwen, RRSAgent, HadleyBeeman, Zakim, PhilA, martinA, MakxDekkers, bhyland, DaveReynolds, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see boris, cygri, BartvanLeeuwen, RRSAgent, HadleyBeeman, Zakim, PhilA, martinA, MakxDekkers, bhyland, DaveReynolds, sandro, trackbot

08:23:29 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I only saw some of the presentations. Some of seemed the messages we've been saying and hearing for a while. Shows importance of our work and related work

Hadley Beeman: I only saw some of the presentations. Some of seemed the messages we've been saying and hearing for a while. Shows importance of our work and related work [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:23:30 <cygri> (here's an excellent recent hurling game played in croke park: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vai3Gzd-ilw )

Richard Cyganiak: (here's an excellent recent hurling game played in croke park: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vai3Gzd-ilw )

08:24:29 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Lots of projects were EU funded - lots of projects seemed to be straight translations from one language to another. Lots of machine translation

Hadley Beeman: Lots of projects were EU funded - lots of projects seemed to be straight translations from one language to another. Lots of machine translation [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:26:10 <bhyland> PhilA: Multilingual issues are more prevalent in EU discussions than the greater LD community has dedicated time & effort to.  This doesn't make sense given the depth of multi-lingual expertise that W3C WG's possesses.

Phil Archer: Multilingual issues are more prevalent in EU discussions than the greater LD community has dedicated time & effort to. This doesn't make sense given the depth of multi-lingual expertise that W3C WG's possesses. [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ]

08:26:26 <bhyland> … We determined we could make DCAT available in at least 6 languages by 12noon today.

Bernadette Hyland: … We determined we could make DCAT available in at least 6 languages by 12noon today.

08:27:05 <bhyland> Hadley: John Sheridan said Legislative.gov.uk is about to be launched in Welsh shortly.

Hadley Beeman: John Sheridan said legislation.gov.uk is about to be launched in Welsh shortly. [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ]

08:27:32 <bhyland> s/legislative.gov.uk/legislation.gov.uk

Bernadette Hyland: s/legislative.gov.uk/legislation.gov.uk (warning: replacement failed)

08:27:49 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: Maybe we've failed to highlight the multilingual nature of LD

Bart van Leeuwen: Maybe we've failed to highlight the multilingual nature of LD [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:28:11 <MakxDekkers> quality not briklliant here

Makx Dekkers: quality not briklliant here

08:28:18 <PhilA> s/Legislative.gov.uk/legislation.gov.uk/
08:28:40 <PhilA> zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has Deirdre

Phil Archer: zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has Deirdre

08:28:40 <Zakim> +Deirdre; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Deirdre; got it

08:28:44 <MakxDekkers> sound quality I mean

Makx Dekkers: sound quality I mean

08:29:12 <MakxDekkers> can hear about 50% of what is said

Makx Dekkers: can hear about 50% of what is said

08:29:18 <PhilA> Deirdre: The feedback I was getting about the networking etc. was positive. Lots of use cases and the like shown

Deirdre Lee: The feedback I was getting about the networking etc. was positive. Lots of use cases and the like shown [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:29:26 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has fadmaa

Hadley Beeman: zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has fadmaa

08:29:26 <Zakim> +fadmaa; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +fadmaa; got it

08:29:57 <PhilA> bhyland: What was the most challenging part

Bernadette Hyland: What was the most challenging part [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:30:22 <PhilA> Deirdre: the EC was behind it so funding wasn't the biggest problem. Other sponsors brought validation to the event

Deirdre Lee: the EC was behind it so funding wasn't the biggest problem. Other sponsors brought validation to the event [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:30:39 <PhilA> ... we targeted different communities wrt. invited speakers

Phil Archer: ... we targeted different communities wrt. invited speakers

08:31:01 <PhilA> ... only the second year but the reputation is growing. Athens in 2014

Phil Archer: ... only the second year but the reputation is growing. Athens in 2014

08:31:45 <PhilA> bhyland: It was excellent. I went to a NIST conference a while back - it was free, in Maryland. Bumped into LDP WG, lots of standards bodies

Bernadette Hyland: It was excellent. I went to a NIST conference a while back - it was free, in Maryland. Bumped into LDP WG, lots of standards bodies [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:32:01 <PhilA> ... very academic. Lots of PhDs, more like the Siemens, StatOil talks from EDF

Phil Archer: ... very academic. Lots of PhDs, more like the Siemens, StatOil talks from EDF

08:32:54 <PhilA> bhyland: Maybe more tracks are useful at these things but it's also good to get everyone together. Conferences don't always do that

Bernadette Hyland: Maybe more tracks are useful at these things but it's also good to get everyone together. Conferences don't always do that [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:33:49 <PhilA> bhyland: Interesting that privacy and security issues are so important here. Not talked about nearly as much in the US

Bernadette Hyland: Interesting that privacy and security issues are so important here. Not talked about nearly as much in the US [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:34:12 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: The Data Protection Directive is an issue - not an American concept

Hadley Beeman: The Data Protection Directive is an issue - not an American concept [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:34:50 <PhilA> bhyland: We have nothing like Directives, or FP7 funding

Bernadette Hyland: We have nothing like Directives, or FP7 funding [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:35:18 <PhilA> ... lots of cases where one project didn't know about what another was doing - when they actually are doing the same thing

Phil Archer: ... lots of cases where one project didn't know about what another was doing - when they actually are doing the same thing

08:35:43 <PhilA> bhyland: Makes me think better about the Community Directory as a poss tool to help that.

Bernadette Hyland: Makes me think better about the Community Directory as a poss tool to help that. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:36:39 <PhilA> Deirdre: On the issue of it being less tech than expected that's useful feedback for next year

Deirdre Lee: On the issue of it being less tech than expected that's useful feedback for next year [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:37:34 <PhilA> bhyland: Odd to hear about European Linked Data (isn't it global?)

Bernadette Hyland: Odd to hear about European Linked Data (isn't it global?) [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:37:50 <PhilA> Room explains EU funding to Bernadette

Phil Archer: Room explains EU funding to Bernadette

08:43:09 <HadleyBeeman> We're now reviewing the semantics of clotted vs whipped cream.

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Hadley Beeman: We're now reviewing the semantics of clotted vs whipped cream.

08:43:57 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

08:44:05 <HadleyBeeman> And what soda bread is/tastes like.  Interesting ramifications of localisation there.

Hadley Beeman: And what soda bread is/tastes like. Interesting ramifications of localisation there.

08:44:53 <PhilA> Deirdre: Interesting point about non European funding, how to get EU funded and others linking/working together

Deirdre Lee: Interesting point about non European funding, how to get EU funded and others linking/working together [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:47:35 <cygri> q?

Richard Cyganiak: q?

08:48:47 <PhilA> ack cygri

Phil Archer: ack cygri

08:48:49 <PhilA> cygri: Just pointing to the agenda...

Richard Cyganiak: Just pointing to the agenda... [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:48:59 <PhilA> bhyland: We're agenda bashing...

Bernadette Hyland: We're agenda bashing... [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:49:12 <PhilA> ... and collecting observations from the conference

Phil Archer: ... and collecting observations from the conference

08:49:54 <PhilA> zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has Ghislain

Phil Archer: zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has Ghislain

08:49:54 <Zakim> +Ghislain; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ghislain; got it

08:50:08 <MakxDekkers> can't really hear what he is saying

Makx Dekkers: can't really hear what he is saying

08:50:23 <MakxDekkers> maybe just me?

Makx Dekkers: maybe just me?

08:50:44 <PhilA> Ghislain: I thought it was excellent. I didn't get a huge output for myself but I wasn't expecting much. Really enjoyed it

Ghislain Atemezing: I thought it was excellent. I didn't get a huge output for myself but I wasn't expecting much. Really enjoyed it [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:50:58 <MakxDekkers> OK will try to follow on IRC

Makx Dekkers: OK will try to follow on IRC

08:51:04 <MakxDekkers> what was that

Makx Dekkers: what was that

08:51:10 <DaveReynolds> Only if it's easy, audio is the main thing

Dave Reynolds: Only if it's easy, audio is the main thing

08:51:18 <PhilA> Discussion of setting up a Google Hangout for streaming

Phil Archer: Discussion of setting up a Google Hangout for streaming

08:51:41 <PhilA> Please put your Google e-mail address so we can invite you in

Phil Archer: Please put your Google e-mail address so we can invite you in

08:52:00 <MakxDekkers> makx.dekkers@gmail.com

Makx Dekkers:

08:52:11 <PhilA> topic: Agenda bashing

2. Agenda bashing

08:52:26 <PhilA> Boris: I have to leave before lunch

Boris Villazón-Terrazas: I have to leave before lunch [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:52:31 <PhilA> Christophe: I leave shortly after lunch

Christophe Gueret: I leave shortly after lunch [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:53:06 <PhilA> Others here for the duration

Phil Archer: Others here for the duration

08:53:56 <MakxDekkers> try to have luch when you ahve

Makx Dekkers: try to have luch when you ahve

08:54:03 <MakxDekkers> yes

Makx Dekkers: yes

08:54:26 <martinA> your 1600

Martín Álvarez: your 1600

08:55:00 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

08:55:37 <PhilA> s/makx.dekkers@gmail.com//
08:55:41 <PhilA> ack cygri

Phil Archer: ack cygri

08:55:56 <PhilA> cygri: Topic to discuss - what's going to happen with the WG?

Richard Cyganiak: Topic to discuss - what's going to happen with the WG? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:56:25 <PhilA> cygri: We've been told that we are not getting a charter extension as things stand. So we're rushing to get things done in time

Richard Cyganiak: We've been told that we are not getting a charter extension as things stand. So we're rushing to get things done in time [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:56:50 <PhilA> cygri: If going to a 2nd Last Call means that's the last thing we have time for then that affects tech decisions and that's not the right way round

Richard Cyganiak: If going to a 2nd Last Call means that's the last thing we have time for then that affects tech decisions and that's not the right way round [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

08:57:01 <DaveReynolds> +1 to cygri request, key issue to understand

Dave Reynolds: +1 to cygri request, key issue to understand

08:57:32 <bhyland> +1 because it impacts much of how we proceed today and for next month

Bernadette Hyland: +1 because it impacts much of how we proceed today and for next month

08:57:34 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

08:57:39 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: for the group to get an extension (here), we have to get everything to CR.

Phil Archer: for the group to get an extension (here), we have to get everything to CR. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ]

08:58:01 <MakxDekkers> in hangout now, can see you!

Makx Dekkers: in hangout now, can see you!

08:58:05 <HadleyBeeman> … Then, come end may, we can be reasonably confident that we can have an extension.

Hadley Beeman: … Then, come the end of May, we can be reasonably confident that we can have an extension.

08:58:15 <HadleyBeeman> s/come end may/come the end of May
08:58:29 <HadleyBeeman> …The extra effort that has gone on recently has made a big difference.

Hadley Beeman: …The extra effort that has gone on recently has made a big difference.

08:58:47 <DaveReynolds> q+

Dave Reynolds: q+

08:59:09 <HadleyBeeman> … What comes after that is a topic for debate (on agenda for tomorrow).  What do you want to do next?  We in the W3C have been discussing the possibilities.

Hadley Beeman: … What comes after that is a topic for debate (on agenda for tomorrow). What do you want to do next? We in the W3C have been discussing the possibilities.

08:59:43 <HadleyBeeman> … Conversations were primarily on "is RDF finished"?  If so, what impact does that have on our Semantic Web Activity?

Hadley Beeman: … Conversations were primarily on "is RDF finished"? If so, what impact does that have on our Semantic Web Activity?

08:59:56 <DaveReynolds> q-

Dave Reynolds: q-

09:00:23 <bhyland> … W3C Mgmt having serious discussions regarding maturity of RDF specifications, as well as broader Open Data on the Web

Bernadette Hyland: … W3C Mgmt having serious discussions regarding maturity of RDF specifications, as well as broader Open Data on the Web

09:00:25 <HadleyBeeman> … What I've been putting in is that we need to talk about open data, and linked data within it.  We also need to talk about data validation (which is why we have the Open Data on the Web workshop)

Hadley Beeman: … What I've been putting in is that we need to talk about open data, and linked data within it. We also need to talk about data validation (which is why we have the Open Data on the Web workshop)

09:00:54 <HadleyBeeman> …  That workshop will be important in setting the agenda for what happens to this working group's work.

Hadley Beeman: … That workshop will be important in setting the agenda for what comes after this working group's work.

09:01:44 <HadleyBeeman> … And what working groups will come out of this.  A number of people (including DaveReynolds) have been talking about closing the world for RDF.  A workshop is being planned in the autumn to explore that.

Hadley Beeman: … And what working groups will come out of this. A number of people (including DaveReynolds) have been talking about closing the world for RDF. A workshop is being planned in the autumn to explore that.

09:02:05 <bhyland> s/setting the agenda for what happens to this/ setting the agenda for what comes after this
09:02:17 <HadleyBeeman> … We need to broaden the scope to talk about open data.  Break down the religious wars between JSON and XML, etc.

Hadley Beeman: … We need to broaden the scope to talk about open data. Break down the religious wars between JSON and XML, etc.

09:02:32 <DaveReynolds> q+

Dave Reynolds: q+

09:04:01 <HadleyBeeman> … This group is making very good progress to getting towards finishing its charter.  Over the summer, things should be in CR.  Most of what we're talking about is already implemented.  We shouldn't have too much complicated discussions.  Therefore, it's realistic to think that three months after the end of May, we could have the rec-track docs as full recommendations.  At the end of that period, the new working group will be in play.

Hadley Beeman: … This group is making very good progress to getting towards finishing its charter. By end of GLD charter, deliverables should be in CR. Most of what we're talking about is already implemented. We shouldn't have too much complicated discussions. Therefore, it's realistic to think that three months after the end of May, we could have the rec-track docs as full recommendations. At the end of that period, the new working group will be in play.

09:04:26 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

09:04:34 <HadleyBeeman> … This planning has to go through the W3C planning process, consultations with us, and the membership as well.

Hadley Beeman: … This planning has to go through the W3C planning process, consultations with us, and the membership as well.

09:05:17 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland:  summer is misleading; we're talking about may 31 onwards.

Bernadette Hyland: summer is misleading; we're talking about may 31 onwards. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ]

09:05:51 <HadleyBeeman> phila:  Our charter extension will probably be for June, July and August, and will say something along the lines of "this is to get the rec-track documents to the end of the process."

Phil Archer: Our charter extension will probably be for June, July and August, and will say something along the lines of "this is to get the rec-track documents to the end of the process." [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ]

09:05:51 <bhyland> s/Over the summer, things should be in CR/By end of GLD charter, deliverables should be in CR
09:07:05 <DaveReynolds> ack me

Dave Reynolds: ack me

09:08:06 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA:  Perhaps I should say, the key is "are the documents at the stage, by the end of May, that we could reaonsably see them getting to Rec within three months"

Phil Archer: Perhaps I should say, the key is "are the documents at the stage, by the end of May, that we could reaonsably see them getting to Rec within three months" [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ]

09:08:37 <PhilA> DaveReynolds: So if, say, DCAT isn't quite at CR by 31 May, does that mean we don't get an extension?

Dave Reynolds: So if, say, DCAT isn't quite at CR by 31 May, does that mean we don't get an extension? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:09:17 <PhilA> PhilA: No, it's not that hard and fast. The test is, are documents sufficiently stable that they could realistically be moved to Rec by the end of a 3 month extension

Phil Archer: No, it's not that hard and fast. The test is, are documents sufficiently stable that they could realistically be moved to Rec by the end of a 3 month extension [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:09:55 <PhilA> cygri: So we have to decide whether we want to actively avoid a second last call. How much of an influence should process be?

Richard Cyganiak: So we have to decide whether we want to actively avoid a second last call. How much of an influence should process be? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:10:20 <PhilA> cygri: I'm not as optimistic as PhilA to get everything to CR by the end of May if we go through a second LC

Richard Cyganiak: I'm not as optimistic as PhilA to get everything to CR by the end of May if we go through a second LC [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:10:40 <PhilA> ... some of the comment were quite substantive and might take several weeks to get through

Phil Archer: ... some of the comment were quite substantive and might take several weeks to get through

09:11:25 <PhilA> ... I don't want to jeopardise other specs because DCAT isn't quite finished on time.

Phil Archer: ... I don't want to jeopardise other specs because DCAT isn't quite finished on time.

09:12:53 <PhilA> bhyland: W3C is reasonable. It won't shut things down that are active and making progress

Bernadette Hyland: W3C is reasonable. It won't shut things down that are active and making progress [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:13:16 <MakxDekkers> point of order: how does this discussion relate to the agenda? Not trying to be pedantic but trying to organise my time today and tomorrow.

Makx Dekkers: point of order: how does this discussion relate to the agenda? Not trying to be pedantic but trying to organise my time today and tomorrow.

09:13:51 <MakxDekkers> OK

Makx Dekkers: OK

09:14:07 <PhilA> bhyland: The reason Richard asked is because it frames the discussion he's going to be leading soon

Bernadette Hyland: The reason Richard asked is because it frames the discussion he's going to be leading soon [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:14:38 <PhilA> bhyland: We have similar issues around the BP doc. Timing affects some decisions on what is left in vs what we can get done

Bernadette Hyland: We have similar issues around the BP doc. Timing affects some decisions on what is left in vs what we can get done [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:15:11 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I'd also add on DCAT that my priority is on a higher quality piece of work than rushing

Hadley Beeman: I'd also add on DCAT that my priority is on a higher quality piece of work than rushing [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:15:31 <PhilA> cygri: And we'd all rather produce a quality piece of work than something rushed out to a schedule

Richard Cyganiak: And we'd all rather produce a quality piece of work than something rushed out to a schedule [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:15:51 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: There are limits to that of course but in general, plus or minus a little then we're OK

Hadley Beeman: There are limits to that of course but in general, plus or minus a little then we're OK [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:16:14 <PhilA> cygri: We got a number of comments that we need to go through for DCAT and the speed is an important factor

Richard Cyganiak: We got a number of comments that we need to go through for DCAT and the speed is an important factor [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:16:18 <bhyland> Topic: Agenda bashing for today & tomorrow

3. Agenda bashing for today & tomorrow

09:16:40 <PhilA> bhyland: Anything we need to change

Bernadette Hyland: Anything we need to change [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:17:09 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I'm sure that a conversation on licensing etc. would be interesting but I'm not sure it's a priority for us

Hadley Beeman: I'm sure that a conversation on licensing etc. would be interesting but I'm not sure it's a priority for us [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:17:17 <bhyland> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/F2F3#Thursday.2C_2013-04-11

Bernadette Hyland: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/F2F3#Thursday.2C_2013-04-11

09:17:17 <PhilA> bhyland: I took that out a while ago...

Bernadette Hyland: I took that out a while ago... [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:17:36 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Presses F5

Hadley Beeman: Presses F5 [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:18:08 <PhilA> bhyland: In theory we're going to do the BP doc in 10 mins time

Bernadette Hyland: In theory we're going to do the BP doc in 10 mins time [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:18:24 <PhilA> ... we have an hour for Cube. Enough Richard?

Phil Archer: ... we have an hour for Cube. Enough Richard?

09:18:50 <PhilA> cygri: Yes, we only have one real issue to discuss

Richard Cyganiak: Yes, we only have one real issue to discuss [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:18:55 <PhilA> DaveReynolds: Agree, an hour should be enough

Dave Reynolds: Agree, an hour should be enough [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:19:31 <PhilA> fadmaa: Yes, an hour or so is enough

Fadi Maali: Yes, an hour or so is enough [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:19:53 <PhilA> PhilA: Hides head in shame when suchkect of URI presistence comments somes up 'cos I keep promising and not delivering

Phil Archer: Hides head in shame when suchkect of URI presistence comments somes up 'cos I keep promising and not delivering [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:20:08 <PhilA> bhyland: May cut to half an hour as we need John E

Bernadette Hyland: May cut to half an hour as we need John E [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:20:29 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Something I want to accomplish in the next 2 days is to re-do our timetable planning

Hadley Beeman: Something I want to accomplish in the next 2 days is to re-do our timetable planning [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:20:44 <PhilA> ... a bash at the timetable page would be god before we finish

Phil Archer: ... a bash at the timetable page would be good before we finish

09:21:18 <PhilA> bhyland: Editor should take the responsibility to update their timetables

Bernadette Hyland: Editor should take the responsibility to update their timetables [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

09:21:34 <gatemezi> s/god/good
09:21:36 <HadleyBeeman> (Example for reminder: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_Timetable )

Hadley Beeman: (Example for reminder: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_Timetable )

09:22:52 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes

Phil Archer: rrsagent, draft minutes

09:22:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-minutes.html PhilA

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-minutes.html PhilA

09:22:58 <PhilA> Coffee break

Phil Archer: Coffee break

09:29:25 <bhyland> until 10.30 Dublin time

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

Bernadette Hyland: until 10.30 Dublin time

09:33:57 <HadleyBeeman> "Caeser didn't have the option of following some British guys on Twitter, which would have changed the invasion completely."

Hadley Beeman: "Caesar didn't have the option of following some British guys on Twitter, which would have changed the invasion completely."

09:34:14 <HadleyBeeman> s/Caeser/Caesar
09:34:55 <PhilA> scribe: fadmaa

(Scribe set to Fadi Maali)

09:35:15 <bhyland> Topic: Best Practices

4. Best Practices

09:35:21 <bhyland> ses http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/BP_Timetable

Bernadette Hyland: see http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/BP_Timetable

09:35:25 <bhyland> s/ses/see
09:35:36 <bhyland> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/bp/index.html#source-data

Bernadette Hyland: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/bp/index.html#source-data

09:36:41 <fadmaa> bhyland: The BP document has a summary, list of checklists, diagrams. It then has a section on URI construction

Bernadette Hyland: The BP document has a summary, list of checklists, diagrams. It then has a section on URI construction

09:37:11 <fadmaa> ... the fact that these recommendation can be done or not makes it different from other W3C recommendation

... the fact that these recommendation can be done or not makes it different from other W3C recommendation

09:37:30 <fadmaa> ... I am suggesting removing the "checklist" section

... I am suggesting removing the "checklist" section

09:37:46 <fadmaa> ... making the BP more normative

... making the BP more normative

09:37:56 <fadmaa> ... and move the checklist to a separate note

... and move the checklist to a separate note

09:39:05 <fadmaa> bhyland: this also enhances our opportunity to have the BP done as a recommendation within the time frame

Bernadette Hyland: this also enhances our opportunity to have the BP done as a recommendation within the time frame

09:39:26 <fadmaa> PhilA: this raises the question again of whether the BP should be a recommendation

Phil Archer: this raises the question again of whether the BP should be a recommendation

09:39:47 <fadmaa> ... a recommendation also requires some implementation (independtly two implementations)

... a recommendation also requires some implementation (independtly two implementations)

09:39:55 <fadmaa> ... which is hard

... which is hard

09:40:31 <fadmaa> ... checklist is really helpful and having them in a separate document make them hard to find

... checklist is really helpful and having them in a separate document make them hard to find

09:41:08 <martinA> Checklist for WCAG is very useful and it's a Recommendation

Martín Álvarez: Checklist for WCAG is very useful and it's a Recommendation

09:42:07 <fadmaa> ... it has been done to have a community group note that feels exactly like a W3C recommendation if it is done well

... it has been done to have a community group note that feels exactly like a W3C recommendation if it is done well

09:43:37 <fadmaa> HadleyBeeman: Are notes easier to be carried on by subsequent groups?

Hadley Beeman: Are notes easier to be carried on by subsequent groups?

09:44:13 <PhilA> Community group producing things that look like, but are not, standards http://www.w3.org/community/odrl/

Phil Archer: Community group producing things that look like, but are not, standards http://www.w3.org/community/odrl/

09:44:32 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

09:44:36 <fadmaa> BartvanLeeuwen: best practice is hard to be put in a solid way as they need to be updated

Bart van Leeuwen: best practice is hard to be put in a solid way as they need to be updated

09:45:00 <fadmaa> cygri: agree. With note the process of updating it is more flexible

Richard Cyganiak: agree. With note the process of updating it is more flexible

09:45:30 <fadmaa> PhilA: it is better to try to finish the BP within the charter of this group

Phil Archer: it is better to try to finish the BP within the charter of this group

09:45:31 <DeirdreLee> Google hangout available for visuals. If you want to join, post your email here

Deirdre Lee: Google hangout available for visuals. If you want to join, post your email here

09:46:21 <fadmaa> bhyland: taking URI process as an example, it is hard to point to implementations

Bernadette Hyland: taking URI process as an example, it is hard to point to implementations

09:46:45 <fadmaa> HadleyBeeman: is Linked government data different than linked data in general?

Hadley Beeman: is Linked government data different than linked data in general?

09:46:59 <fadmaa> ... can't we consider an enterprise implementation

... can't we consider an enterprise implementation

09:47:27 <fadmaa> ... as an existing implementation for the best practices for linked government data

... as an existing implementation for the best practices for linked government data

09:47:52 <HadleyBeeman> or possibly have the scope of Best Practices to cover all linked data?

Hadley Beeman: or possibly have the scope of Best Practices to cover all linked data?

09:48:01 <HadleyBeeman> (tbd by the group)

Hadley Beeman: (to be determined by the group)

09:48:14 <HadleyBeeman> s/tbd/to be determined
09:49:07 <fadmaa> ??: would it be appropriate to refer to existing implementations from within a note?

Christophe Gueret: would it be appropriate to refer to existing implementations from within a note?

09:49:20 <HadleyBeeman> s/??/christophe
09:49:36 <fadmaa> PhilA: I don't think this is good especially that implementations are not guaranteed to continue to exist

Phil Archer: I don't think this is good especially that implementations are not guaranteed to continue to exist

09:50:15 <fadmaa> boris: it will be hard to point to implementations of BP

Boris Villazón-Terrazas: it will be hard to point to implementations of BP

09:50:32 <fadmaa> bhyland: if we take into account enterprise implementations that won't be hard

Bernadette Hyland: if we take into account enterprise implementations that won't be hard

09:51:14 <fadmaa> boris: it is hard to prove that the implementation was good and the practices were helpful

Boris Villazón-Terrazas: it is hard to prove that the implementation was good and the practices were helpful

09:51:26 <fadmaa> PhilA: if the customer(implementer) is happy, we can trust this

Phil Archer: if the customer(implementer) is happy, we can trust this

09:51:58 <fadmaa> HadleyBeeman: looks like we have three options: one recommendation, a recommendation and a note or a note?

Hadley Beeman: looks like we have three options: one recommendation, a recommendation and a note or a note?

09:52:22 <fadmaa> bhyland: one recommendation is not an option given the time frame

Bernadette Hyland: one recommendation is not an option given the time frame

09:53:04 <fadmaa> bhyland:this leaves two options: a recommendation and a checklist separate as a note

Bernadette Hyland: this leaves two options: a recommendation and a checklist separate as a note

09:53:09 <fadmaa> ... or one note

... or one note

09:53:46 <gatemezi> http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/

Ghislain Atemezing: http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/

09:53:47 <PhilA> www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/

Phil Archer: www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/

09:54:06 <fadmaa> bhyland: an example of a good way to put best practices: http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/

Bernadette Hyland: an example of a good way to put best practices: http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/

09:55:27 <fadmaa> BartvanLeeuwen: BP will not contain a  MUST and SHOULD kind of recommendations

Bart van Leeuwen: BP will not contain a MUST and SHOULD kind of recommendations

09:55:46 <fadmaa> ... but the like of "we think it is good to do this and this"

... but the like of "we think it is good to do this and this"

09:56:41 <fadmaa> PhilA: in the mobile bp document referred to, we required feedback from two different implementers

Phil Archer: in the mobile bp document referred to, we required feedback from two different implementers

09:59:02 <fadmaa> PhilA: it might be good to suggest including a "persistent URI" section for the likely new W3C WG dealing with open data in general

Phil Archer: it might be good to suggest including a "persistent URI" section for the likely new W3C WG dealing with open data in general

09:59:31 <fadmaa> ... this means we can make the URI construction part of the BP as a note

... this means we can make the URI construction part of the BP as a note

09:59:36 <sandro> Step 1 for talking the JSON folks: Don't use the terms "URI" or "IRI".     Stick with "URL".    :-)

Sandro Hawke: Step 1 for talking the JSON folks: Don't use the terms "URI" or "IRI". Stick with "URL". :-)

09:59:50 <HadleyBeeman> wise words, sandro

Hadley Beeman: wise words, sandro

10:00:21 <fadmaa> bhyland: URI policy and implementation is something that I think this WG can and should do

Bernadette Hyland: URI policy and implementation is something that I think this WG can and should do

10:00:28 <DaveReynolds> q+

Dave Reynolds: q+

10:00:43 <fadmaa> ... we have the required technical capabilities

... we have the required technical capabilities

10:00:44 <cygri> q-

Richard Cyganiak: q-

10:00:54 <PhilA> ack DaveReynolds

Phil Archer: ack DaveReynolds

10:01:34 <fadmaa> DaveReynolds: I support the suggestion for going for a note containing the URI construction section

Dave Reynolds: I support the suggestion for going for a note containing the URI construction section

10:01:51 <fadmaa> ... I don't think having two separate docs is a good idea

... I don't think having two separate docs is a good idea

10:02:18 <HadleyBeeman> HTTP range 14 compliance can of worms

Hadley Beeman: HTTP range 14 compliance can of worms

10:02:28 <fadmaa> ... and achieving consensus for a rec is risky, we might have the http range discussion opened again

... and achieving consensus for a rec is risky, we might have the http range discussion opened again

10:02:54 <HadleyBeeman> :)

Hadley Beeman: :)

10:03:00 <fadmaa> bhyland: I don't mind putting the BP in a note

Bernadette Hyland: I don't mind putting the BP in a note

10:03:18 <fadmaa> ... but I don't like the idea of defering this for a next WG

... but I don't like the idea of defering this for a next WG

10:03:51 <DaveReynolds> Don't think that PhilA's suggestion was to defer, but to build on.

Dave Reynolds: Don't think that PhilA's suggestion was to defer, but to build on.

10:04:15 <DaveReynolds> Agenda says this discussion has 26mins left

Dave Reynolds: Agenda says this discussion has 26mins left

10:04:25 <fadmaa> PROPOSAL: put a BP as a note

PROPOSED: put a BP as a note

10:06:18 <fadmaa> sandro: is the argument that because URI construction is controversial we shouldn't try to get consensus on it?

Sandro Hawke: is the argument that because URI construction is controversial we shouldn't try to get consensus on it?

10:07:34 <fadmaa> DaveReynolds: I didn't mean that having a document on URI construction is a bad idea

Dave Reynolds: I didn't mean that having a document on URI construction is a bad idea

10:08:03 <fadmaa> ... but having this within the best practice as a rec is risky

... but having this within the best practice as a rec is risky

10:08:07 <fadmaa> bhyland: +1

Bernadette Hyland: +1

10:08:44 <sandro> DaveReynolds:We're spending months on a revision of the UK policy and we're not nearly done, so this WG isn't ready to produce a REC on URI Construction.

Dave Reynolds: We're spending months on a revision of the UK policy and we're not nearly done, so this WG isn't ready to produce a REC on URI Construction. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:09:10 <fadmaa> bhyland: I think it is better to have the BP as a comprehensive document and as a WG note

Bernadette Hyland: I think it is better to have the BP as a comprehensive document and as a WG note

10:09:39 <fadmaa> boris: giving the time restrictions, I also think that putting this as a note is a good idea

Boris Villazón-Terrazas: giving the time restrictions, I also think that putting this as a note is a good idea

10:10:12 <DaveReynolds> +1

Dave Reynolds: +1

10:10:15 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to putting BP as a note

Hadley Beeman: +1 to putting BP as a note

10:10:15 <cygri> PROPOSAL: The WG aims to publish Best Practices as a W3C Note

PROPOSED: The WG aims to publish Best Practices as a W3C Note

10:10:32 <MakxDekkers> +1

Makx Dekkers: +1

10:10:33 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

10:10:41 <DaveReynolds> +1

Dave Reynolds: +1

10:10:42 <HadleyBeeman> +1

Hadley Beeman: +1

10:10:42 <fadmaa> +1

+1

10:10:42 <gatemezi> +1

Ghislain Atemezing: +1

10:10:45 <martinA> +1

Martín Álvarez: +1

10:10:52 <cygri> +1

Richard Cyganiak: +1

10:11:08 <sandro> +1 given that I'm hearing the editor says we can't possibly make it to CR by the end of May, or even the URI Construction part of it.

Sandro Hawke: +1 given that I'm hearing the editor says we can't possibly make it to CR by the end of May, or even the URI Construction part of it.

10:11:32 <DaveReynolds> To be clear. Very happy to have URI construction and policy as part of BP note. Having a REC track document that just focusses on that issue will be a challenge in terms of community consensus and timescale. UK experience is that despite several years use of previous UK recommendations, they need substantial update and that achieving consensus on that update is time consuming.

Dave Reynolds: To be clear. Very happy to have URI construction and policy as part of BP note. Having a REC track document that just focusses on that issue will be a challenge in terms of community consensus and timescale. UK experience is that despite several years use of previous UK recommendations, they need substantial update and that achieving consensus on that update is time consuming.

10:11:46 <boris> +1

Boris Villazón-Terrazas: +1

10:11:53 <sandro> DaveReynolds, my question is whether or not we should ATTEMPT to meet that challenge.

Sandro Hawke: DaveReynolds, my question is whether or not we should ATTEMPT to meet that challenge.

10:12:09 <sandro> DaveReynolds, ... and I'm hearing "No."

Sandro Hawke: DaveReynolds, ... and I'm hearing "No."

10:12:34 <DaveReynolds> sandro: no, I'm saying "yes" but not in the next 3 weeks just from GLD perspective

Sandro Hawke: no, I'm saying "yes" but not in the next 3 weeks just from GLD perspective [ Scribe Assist by Dave Reynolds ]

10:12:44 <sandro> What if we had 6 months?

Sandro Hawke: What if we had 6 months?

10:13:29 <HadleyBeeman> Looking further at URI persistence in the context of open data (especially with regard to JSON and XML) would be useful.  Perhaps subsequent working group?  At that point, it's out of the realm of Linked Data and RDF… but still worth doing.

Hadley Beeman: Looking further at URI persistence in the context of open data (especially with regard to JSON and XML) would be useful. Perhaps subsequent working group? At that point, it's out of the realm of Linked Data and RDF… but still worth doing.

10:14:03 <fadmaa> sandro: If we get a 6 month extension, should we try to work on the URI construction recommendations?

Sandro Hawke: If we get a 6 month extension, should we try to work on the URI construction recommendations?

10:14:04 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

10:15:22 <fadmaa> bhyland: we have enough technical recommendations and guidance to put in a section on URI construction in a best practice note

Bernadette Hyland: we have enough technical recommendations and guidance to put in a section on URI construction in a best practice note

10:15:35 <fadmaa> ... it can serve as input for further work

... it can serve as input for further work

10:15:56 <sandro> bhyland: It would be confusing to take URI Construction out of Best Practices, into another document.

Bernadette Hyland: It would be confusing to take URI Construction out of Best Practices, into another document. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:16:22 <cgueret> +1

Christophe Gueret: +1

10:16:57 <fadmaa> ... there are examples of notes which are widely used and even referred to as standards sometimes especially for people not aware of the W3C processes

... there are examples of notes which are widely used and even referred to as standards sometimes especially for people not aware of the W3C processes

10:17:16 <fadmaa> sandro: if we have the URI construction doc separate, people will pay more attention

Sandro Hawke: if we have the URI construction doc separate, people will pay more attention

10:17:30 <fadmaa> ... and this will halep getting this thoroughly discussed

... and this will help getting this thoroughly discussed

10:17:44 <gatemezi> s/christophe/cgueret
10:17:48 <fadmaa> s/halep/help/
10:17:50 <bhyland> Sandro - We want BP well documented and this is important.

Bernadette Hyland: Sandro - We want BP well documented and this is important.

10:17:54 <DaveReynolds> q+

Dave Reynolds: q+

10:18:32 <sandro> sandro: This is a major decision for the WG, so it needs to be well-documented and well-justified.

Sandro Hawke: This is a major decision for the WG, so it needs to be well-documented and well-justified. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:18:43 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+

Bart van Leeuwen: q+

10:18:45 <fadmaa> sandro: we need to clearly record the reason for our decision re. working or not URI construction

Sandro Hawke: we need to clearly record the reason for our decision re. working or not URI construction

10:19:22 <bhyland> cygri: What we say on URI Policy for Persistence has wide reaching impact… for example LDP and RDF WGs

Richard Cyganiak: What we say on URI Policy for Persistence has wide reaching impact… for example LDP and RDF WGs [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ]

10:19:28 <sandro> cygri: What we say on URI construction can have a pretty big impact and affect lots of other WGs.    Making those recommendations might also be in-scope for other WGs, like LDP.   The RDF WG has views and opinions on these issues.

Richard Cyganiak: What we say on URI construction can have a pretty big impact and affect lots of other WGs. Making those recommendations might also be in-scope for other WGs, like LDP. The RDF WG has views and opinions on these issues. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:19:30 <fadmaa> cygri: this has broad implications. one might argue that this falls also in the scope of other WG e.g. the RDF WG, the LD platform

Richard Cyganiak: this has broad implications. one might argue that this falls also in the scope of other WG e.g. the RDF WG, the LD platform

10:19:51 <sandro> (It came about because of the UK guidance document.)

Sandro Hawke: (It came about because of the UK guidance document.)

10:20:16 <fadmaa> bhyland: the reason this was part of the GLD charter, is because its charter was written before the LDP one

Bernadette Hyland: the reason this was part of the GLD charter, is because its charter was written before the LDP one

10:20:30 <PhilA> that's the one DaveReynolds tells us that months of work is going into updating. It's referred to by many people.

Phil Archer: that's the one DaveReynolds tells us that months of work is going into updating. It's referred to by many people.

10:21:06 <fadmaa> cgueret: it is important to clarify whether there is something specific with government URIs in particular

Christophe Gueret: it is important to clarify whether there is something specific with government URIs in particular

10:21:38 <fadmaa> cygri: some topics in the charter are hard to be addressed exclusively in the government scope

Richard Cyganiak: some topics in the charter are hard to be addressed exclusively in the government scope

10:21:58 <PhilA> cygri: Makes the point that URI construction is not gov-specific (or any other domain). LDP is equally interested, for example

Richard Cyganiak: Makes the point that URI construction is not gov-specific (or any other domain). LDP is equally interested, for example [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

10:21:59 <BartvanLeeuwen> q?

Bart van Leeuwen: q?

10:22:04 <fadmaa> ... many of the issues are general and the technologies can be applied outside government linked data

... many of the issues are general and the technologies can be applied outside government linked data

10:22:49 <fadmaa> bhyland: it is fine to impact other people and WGs and we can get input from them

Bernadette Hyland: it is fine to impact other people and WGs and we can get input from them

10:23:24 <fadmaa> cygri: my concern is that we might not have the right composition in the WG to address some broad topics

Richard Cyganiak: my concern is that we might not have the right composition in the WG to address some broad topics

10:24:09 <fadmaa> ... that might go beyond the scope.

... that might go beyond the scope.

10:24:33 <sandro> q+ to say the Charter was about URI Construction *for governments* specifically.

Sandro Hawke: q+ to say the Charter was about URI Construction *for governments* specifically.

10:25:01 <fadmaa> cygri: there is a danger of not having all related people looking into our output and providing feedback

Richard Cyganiak: there is a danger of not having all related people looking into our output and providing feedback

10:25:04 <sandro> " The group will specify how to create good URIs for use in government linked data. "

Sandro Hawke: " The group will specify how to create good URIs for use in government linked data. "

10:25:31 <cygri> ack me

Richard Cyganiak: ack me

10:26:42 <fadmaa> sandro: the charter states that government linked data specifically

Sandro Hawke: the charter states that government linked data specifically

10:27:00 <fadmaa> sandro: in the part referring to the URI construction

Sandro Hawke: in the part referring to the URI construction

10:27:06 <bhyland> To quote the charter: URI Construction. The group will specify how to create good URIs for use in government linked data.

Bernadette Hyland: To quote the charter: URI Construction. The group will specify how to create good URIs for use in government linked data.

10:27:41 <fadmaa> cygri: if I look at our draft I don't see it specific to the government data

Richard Cyganiak: if I look at our draft I don't see it specific to the government data

10:27:54 <fadmaa> bhyland: yes it is general

Bernadette Hyland: yes it is general

10:28:56 <bhyland> q?

Bernadette Hyland: q?

10:29:12 <sandro> bhyland, I think I halted the vote by asking this question -- about 6 months, etc.

Sandro Hawke: bhyland, I think I halted the vote by asking this question -- about 6 months, etc.

10:29:15 <PhilA> PhilA: There's a session on URIs at the London workshop btw http://www.w3.org/2013/04/odw/agenda#uris. Some gov, but not all

Phil Archer: There's a session on URIs at the London workshop btw http://www.w3.org/2013/04/odw/agenda#uris. Some gov, but not all [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

10:29:24 <PhilA> q+

Phil Archer: q+

10:29:52 <HadleyBeeman> It sounds to me like we can all agree that URI persistence section of our BP draft isn't finished.  I suggest we have other conversations about the nuances of the content.

Hadley Beeman: It sounds to me like we can all agree that URI persistence section of our BP draft isn't finished. I suggest we have other conversations about the nuances of the content.

10:30:11 <sandro> DaveReynolds: If URI Construction were split out, we'd have to be much more careful and clear about the scope.      Meanwhile, the UK stuff is Best Practice suggestions, *not* formal conformance spec stuff.

Dave Reynolds: If URI Construction were split out, we'd have to be much more careful and clear about the scope. Meanwhile, the UK stuff is Best Practice suggestions, *not* formal conformance spec stuff. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:30:15 <BartvanLeeuwen> ack me

Bart van Leeuwen: ack me

10:30:22 <PhilA> q-

Phil Archer: q-

10:30:30 <sandro> I'm comfortable deferring to DaveReynolds expertise on that.

Sandro Hawke: I'm comfortable deferring to DaveReynolds expertise on that.

10:30:43 <sandro> q-

Sandro Hawke: q-

10:31:30 <bhyland> @Dave - so what you just said further suggests the URI Policy guidance should be in a WG Note, not a Rec track doc because it is not "pass / fail"

Bernadette Hyland: @Dave - so what you just said further suggests the URI Policy guidance should be in a WG Note, not a Rec track doc because it is not "pass / fail"

10:31:44 <bhyland> @Dave, do I understand you correctly?

Bernadette Hyland: @Dave, do I understand you correctly?

10:32:00 <cygri> cygri: Potentially, all LD is in scope for LDP

Richard Cyganiak: Potentially, all LD is in scope for LDP [ Scribe Assist by Richard Cyganiak ]

10:32:40 <cygri> BartvanLeeuwen: Dutch government has a linked data working group

Bart van Leeuwen: Dutch government has a linked data working group [ Scribe Assist by Richard Cyganiak ]

10:32:42 <sandro> BartvanLeeuwen: It'd be helpful to the Dutch group on this to have URI construction be a separate WG Note

Bart van Leeuwen: It'd be helpful to the Dutch group on this to have URI construction be a separate WG Note [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:33:10 <cygri> … having a separate document for URI construction would help highlighting it so that national groups don't reinvent thing

Richard Cyganiak: … having a separate document for URI construction would help highlighting it so that national groups don't reinvent things

10:33:10 <sandro> bhyland: I would not want to see URI Construction taken out of Best Practices.

Bernadette Hyland: I would not want to see URI Construction taken out of Best Practices. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:33:14 <cygri> s/thing/things/
10:33:15 <DaveReynolds> bhyland: yes, if it gets into lower details as the UK stuff does then that should be framed as a range of possible approaches rather than a one true way

Bernadette Hyland: yes, if it gets into lower details as the UK stuff does then that should be framed as a range of possible approaches rather than a one true way [ Scribe Assist by Dave Reynolds ]

10:33:35 <sandro> HadleyBeeman: I think URI Construction needs a lot more time and attention than we've got.

Hadley Beeman: I think URI Construction needs a lot more time and attention than we've got. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:34:00 <DaveReynolds> PhilA: Don't know, in principle maybe, would need to discuss with the sponsors (defra)

Phil Archer: Don't know, in principle maybe, would need to discuss with the sponsors (defra) [ Scribe Assist by Dave Reynolds ]

10:34:13 <cygri> q?

Richard Cyganiak: q?

10:34:17 <sandro> HadleyBeeman: Part of what needs to happen going forward with URIs is to (1) make it more government specific and (2) get more reviews from the WGs that might care about this

Hadley Beeman: Part of what needs to happen going forward with URIs is to (1) make it more government specific and (2) get more reviews from the WGs that might care about this [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:34:27 <bhyland> @Dave, then I agree with you & in discussion this AM discussion, believe even more so that it should be a WG Note.

Bernadette Hyland: @Dave, then I agree with you & in discussion this AM discussion, believe even more so that it should be a WG Note.

10:34:28 <sandro> bhyland: yes and yes

Bernadette Hyland: yes and yes [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:35:53 <bhyland> Proposed: Publish Best Practices as as Working Group Note, inclusive of URI Construction guidance and URI Policy for Persistence, and various checklists for vocabs, etc.

PROPOSED: Publish Best Practices as as Working Group Note, inclusive of URI Construction guidance and URI Policy for Persistence, and various checklists for vocabs, etc.

10:37:17 <DaveReynolds> +1

Dave Reynolds: +1

10:37:36 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

10:37:44 <HadleyBeeman> RESOLVED: The WG aims to publish Best Practices as a W3C Note.

RESOLVED: The WG aims to publish Best Practices as a W3C Note.

10:37:52 <MakxDekkers> +1

Makx Dekkers: +1

10:38:00 <cgueret> +1

Christophe Gueret: +1

10:38:36 <sandro> (We understand this is different from the Charter -- in that the charter says this will be a Recommendation.)

Sandro Hawke: (We understand this is different from the Charter -- in that the charter says this will be a Recommendation.)

10:39:20 <HadleyBeeman>  Charter:  2.2 Best Practices for Publishing Linked Data  www.w3.org/2011/gld/charter

Hadley Beeman: Charter: 2.2 Best Practices for Publishing Linked Data www.w3.org/2011/gld/charter

10:39:42 <fadmaa> bhyland: reviewing the BP document as stated in the charter:

Bernadette Hyland: reviewing the BP document as stated in the charter:

10:39:58 <fadmaa> ... Procurement we decided before not to include it in the BP doc

... Procurement we decided before not to include it in the BP doc

10:40:01 <DaveReynolds> Main my -1 on procurement checklist

Dave Reynolds: Maintain my -1 on procurement checklist

10:40:07 <DaveReynolds> s/Main/Maintain/
10:40:39 <fadmaa> bhyland: procurement as a checklist

Bernadette Hyland: procurement as a checklist

10:40:47 <DaveReynolds> Well at least -0

Dave Reynolds: Well at least -0

10:41:19 <fadmaa> cygri: it is hard to vote on whether it should be a checklist or no

Richard Cyganiak: it is hard to vote on whether it should be a checklist or no

10:41:42 <fadmaa> ... the group can vote based on teh content. I think there is no need for the WG to micro-manage this

... the group can vote based on teh content. I think there is no need for the WG to micro-manage this

10:42:38 <fadmaa> HadleyBeeman: do we need formal process to drop parts of the charter?

Hadley Beeman: do we need formal process to drop parts of the charter?

10:42:55 <fadmaa> sandro: we have discussions on emails but not a formal decision

Sandro Hawke: we have discussions on emails but not a formal decision

10:42:58 <bhyland> Discussed that the Best Practices WG Note contain checklist information for procurement, vocab selection,  and thoroughly URI Construction and URI Policy for Persistence. This WG Note does not expect to cover in detail Versioning, Stability, Legacy Data.  Finally, the LD Cookbook will live as a wiki.

Bernadette Hyland: Discussed that the Best Practices WG Note contain checklist information for procurement, vocab selection, and thoroughly URI Construction and URI Policy for Persistence. This WG Note does not expect to cover in detail Versioning, Stability, Legacy Data. Finally, the LD Cookbook will live as a wiki.

10:43:16 <fadmaa> ... at some point we need some text explaining why we are not working on some parts of the charter

... at some point we need some text explaining why we are not working on some parts of the charter

10:43:51 <HadleyBeeman> The charter commits us to delivering BP recommendations that we have discussed not having.

Hadley Beeman: The charter commits us to delivering BP recommendations that we have discussed not having.

10:44:35 <fadmaa> PhilA: we need to record that the WG has decided not to include some parts of the charter

Phil Archer: we need to record that the WG has decided not to include some parts of the charter

10:45:37 <HadleyBeeman> We planned for sections on Procurement, Versioning, Stability and Legacy Data.  WG members who were authorities on those topics have left, and we have further discussed that they are not relevant/feasible to produce to a high level.

Hadley Beeman: We planned for sections on Procurement, Versioning, Stability and Legacy Data. WG members who were authorities on those topics have left, and we have further discussed that they are not relevant/feasible to produce to a high level.

10:46:25 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland: they are relevant, but we are only going to produce high-level summaries of them.

Bernadette Hyland: they are relevant, but we are only going to produce high-level summaries of them. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ]

10:46:39 <sandro> PROPOSED:  Best Practices will only very briefly discuss "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ".     Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki.     We don't have the time/expertise to do more.

PROPOSED: Best Practices will only very briefly discuss "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ". Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki. We don't have the time/expertise to do more.

10:46:45 <bhyland> +1

Bernadette Hyland: +1

10:46:50 <HadleyBeeman> +1

Hadley Beeman: +1

10:47:06 <DaveReynolds> 0 (sounds like procurement checklist remains)

Dave Reynolds: 0 (sounds like procurement checklist remains)

10:47:36 <sandro> PROPOSED:  Best Practices will only very briefly discuss "1. Procurement", "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ".     Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki.     We don't have the time/expertise to do more.

PROPOSED: Best Practices will only very briefly discuss "1. Procurement", "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ". Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki. We don't have the time/expertise to do more.

10:48:07 <gatemezi> q?

Ghislain Atemezing: q?

10:48:30 <sandro> PROPOSED:  Best Practices will (at most) only very briefly discuss "1. Procurement", "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ".     Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki.     We don't have the time/expertise to do more.

PROPOSED: Best Practices will (at most) only very briefly discuss "1. Procurement", "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ". Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki. We don't have the time/expertise to do more.

10:48:46 <DaveReynolds> +1

Dave Reynolds: +1

10:48:47 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

10:49:08 <fadmaa> +1

+1

10:49:32 <sandro> (for DaveReynolds, the addition of "at most" clarifies that we might drop the Procurement section entirely.)

Sandro Hawke: (for DaveReynolds, the addition of "at most" clarifies that we might drop the Procurement section entirely.)

10:49:38 <fadmaa> bhyland: the current section on procurement is not specific to government

Bernadette Hyland: the current section on procurement is not specific to government

10:49:45 <cygri> 0 (I don't see the point of this vote.)

Richard Cyganiak: 0 (I don't see the point of this vote.)

10:49:48 <gatemezi> +1

Ghislain Atemezing: +1

10:49:51 <HadleyBeeman> +1

Hadley Beeman: +1

10:49:53 <boris> +1

Boris Villazón-Terrazas: +1

10:49:54 <MakxDekkers> +1

Makx Dekkers: +1

10:49:54 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

10:49:57 <cgueret> +1

Christophe Gueret: +1

10:49:58 <fadmaa> ... if we can't make it better I'd suggest not having it

... if we can't make it better I'd suggest not having it

10:49:59 <fadmaa> +1

+1

10:50:18 <sandro> RESOLVED:  Best Practices will (at most) only very briefly discuss "1. Procurement", "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ".     Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki.     We don't have the time/expertise to do more.

RESOLVED: Best Practices will (at most) only very briefly discuss "1. Procurement", "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ". Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki. We don't have the time/expertise to do more.

10:50:41 <sandro> We can change our mind in light of new information -- eg some Awesome new text.

Sandro Hawke: We can change our mind in light of new information -- eg some Awesome new text.

10:51:18 <sandro> bhyland: This is largely guidance to the editors

Bernadette Hyland: This is largely guidance to the editors [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:51:38 <bhyland> Thanks all, very helpful to editors.

Bernadette Hyland: Thanks all, very helpful to editors.

10:51:57 <sandro> HadleyBeeman: And this documents for the world that/why we're not doing these things in our charter.

Hadley Beeman: And this documents for the world that/why we're not doing these things in our charter. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

10:52:46 <MakxDekkers> please try to keep break times the same. I am planning around that

Makx Dekkers: please try to keep break times the same. I am planning around that

10:53:21 <HadleyBeeman> noted, makxdekkers

Hadley Beeman: noted, makxdekkers

10:54:22 <fadmaa> TOPIC: Data Cube vocabulary LC feedback review

5. Data Cube vocabulary LC feedback review

10:54:27 <DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Data_Cube_LC_comments

Dave Reynolds: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Data_Cube_LC_comments

10:54:32 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Data_Cube_LC_comments

Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Data_Cube_LC_comments

10:55:01 <fadmaa> cygri: we have all the comments we received in teh Wiki page

Richard Cyganiak: we have all the comments we received in teh Wiki page

10:55:10 <gatemezi> Topic: Data Cube

6. Data Cube

10:55:38 <fadmaa> ... many of them were expressing their used of the vocabulary and their satisfaction

... many of them were expressing their used of the vocabulary and their satisfaction

10:55:54 <fadmaa> ... there are some editorial issues that the editors can take care of

... there are some editorial issues that the editors can take care of

10:56:21 <fadmaa> ... one thing that needs some discussion, is the question re. the SDMX part relation to the Spec itself

... one thing that needs some discussion, is the question re. the SDMX part relation to the Spec itself

10:56:42 <fadmaa> ... and whether it is part of the Rec

... and whether it is part of the Rec

10:57:24 <fadmaa> cygri: the main issue was regarding the heirarchical there was some push back

Richard Cyganiak: the main issue was regarding the heirarchical code list there was some push back

10:57:55 <fadmaa> s/heirarchical/heirarchical code list/
10:58:57 <cygri> ISSUE-59?

Richard Cyganiak: ISSUE-59?

10:58:57 <trackbot> ISSUE-59 -- Last Call comment. Frank Cotton on qb:HierarchicalCodeList -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-59 -- Last Call comment. Frank Cotton on qb:HierarchicalCodeList -- raised

10:58:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/59

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/59

11:00:18 <fadmaa> cygri: the issue is mainly with hierarchical list which is common in statistical data e.g. geographic areas

Richard Cyganiak: the issue is mainly with hierarchical list which is common in statistical data e.g. geographic areas

11:00:43 <fadmaa> ... it is a frequent requirement to have this hierarchy represented in their data

... it is a frequent requirement to have this hierarchy represented in their data

11:01:07 <fadmaa> ... we use SKOS currently which can express hierarchy with broader/narrower

... we use SKOS currently which can express hierarchy with broader/narrower

11:01:38 <fadmaa> ... the issue with this, is the existing domain specific hierarchies that are not represented using SKOS

... the issue with this, is the existing domain specific hierarchies that are not represented using SKOS

11:02:00 <fadmaa> ... can we enable organisations to use the hierarchies they already have?

... can we enable organisations to use the hierarchies they already have?

11:02:45 <fadmaa> ... one possible solution is to require these lists to be represented into SKOS

... one possible solution is to require these lists to be represented into SKOS

11:03:17 <fadmaa> ... but this will prohibit people from reusing their already defined data and URIs

... but this will prohibit people from reusing their already defined data and URIs

11:03:59 <fadmaa> ... the hierarchicalcodelist property allows pointing to non-SKOS lists

... the hierarchicalcodelist property allows pointing to non-SKOS lists

11:05:28 <PhilA> scribe: DeirdreLee

(Scribe set to Deirdre Lee)

11:06:24 <DeirdreLee> cgueret2: shouldn't force use of skos for hierarchies, because skos is not enough

Christophe Gueret: shouldn't force use of skos for hierarchies, because skos is not enough

11:06:39 <DeirdreLee> PhilA: how common is the problem that skos is not enough

Phil Archer: how common is the problem that skos is not enough

11:07:00 <DeirdreLee> cygri: 2 issues, first is forcing people to use skos and the second that skos is not rich enough

Richard Cyganiak: 2 issues, first is forcing people to use skos and the second that skos is not rich enough

11:07:48 <DeirdreLee> ... if skos is not rich enough for your need, you can just extend it

... if skos is not rich enough for your need, you can just extend it

11:09:00 <DeirdreLee> ... datacube does not specify that skos has to be used for hierarchy, however is you use skos discovering the hierarchical information is clear

... datacube does not specify that skos has to be used for hierarchy, however is you use skos discovering the hierarchical information is clear

11:09:32 <DeirdreLee> ... so datacube only 'forces' you to use skos if you are looking for this predictability

... so datacube only 'forces' you to use skos if you are looking for this predictability

11:09:50 <DeirdreLee> ... more difficult to discover properties if skos is not used

... more difficult to discover properties if skos is not used

11:10:05 <DeirdreLee> PhilA: do we need a WG to extend SKOS?

Phil Archer: do we need a WG to extend SKOS?

11:10:24 <DeirdreLee> cygri: there is a group that is looking into this

Richard Cyganiak: there is a group that is looking into this

11:11:23 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers

11:11:44 <HadleyBeeman> XKOS at the DDI: https://github.com/linked-statistics/xkos/blob/master/xkos.ttl

Hadley Beeman: XKOS at the DDI: https://github.com/linked-statistics/xkos/blob/master/xkos.ttl

11:12:35 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers

11:12:39 <DeirdreLee> PhilA: What is the benefit of using Datacube if they don't use skos?

Phil Archer: What is the benefit of using Datacube if they don't use skos?

11:12:43 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?

Bernadette Hyland: zakim, who is on the call?

11:12:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see martinA, GLDMeetingRoom, DaveReynolds, Sandro, MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see martinA, GLDMeetingRoom, DaveReynolds, Sandro, MakxDekkers

11:12:45 <Zakim> GLDMeetingRoom has Ghislain

Zakim IRC Bot: GLDMeetingRoom has Ghislain

11:12:57 <MakxDekkers> zakim, mute me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, mute me

11:12:57 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should now be muted

11:13:11 <DeirdreLee> cygri: yes

Richard Cyganiak: yes

11:13:56 <PhilA> zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has Ghislain, DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA

Phil Archer: zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has Ghislain, DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA

11:13:56 <Zakim> Ghislain was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: Ghislain was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, PhilA

11:13:57 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has bhyland, gatemezi, phila, cygri, hadleybeeman, fadmaa, boris, bartvanleeuwen, cgueret2, deirdrelee

Hadley Beeman: zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has bhyland, gatemezi, phila, cygri, hadleybeeman, fadmaa, boris, bartvanleeuwen, cgueret2, deirdrelee

11:13:58 <Zakim> +DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA; got it

11:13:58 <Zakim> bhyland was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: bhyland was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

11:13:58 <Zakim> gatemezi was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: gatemezi was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

11:13:58 <Zakim> PhilA was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

11:13:58 <Zakim> cygri was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: cygri was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

11:13:58 <Zakim> HadleyBeeman was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: HadleyBeeman was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

11:14:00 <Zakim> fadmaa was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: fadmaa was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

11:14:00 <Zakim> boris was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: boris was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

11:14:00 <Zakim> BartvanLeeuwen was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: BartvanLeeuwen was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

11:14:00 <Zakim> cgueret2 was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: cgueret2 was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

11:14:00 <Zakim> DeirdreLee was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

Zakim IRC Bot: DeirdreLee was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman

11:15:12 <DeirdreLee> ... different kinds of hierachies should be represented using different model so that the hieranchical subtleties can be captured

... different kinds of hierachies should be represented using different model so that the hieranchical subtleties can be captured

11:16:00 <PhilA> PhilA: I am convinced by cygri. Thank you

Phil Archer: I am convinced by cygri. Thank you [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

11:16:48 <DeirdreLee> cygri: proposed response to Frank 'we understand the concern, but we would like to provide a more flexible approach'

Richard Cyganiak: proposed response to Frank 'we understand the concern, but we would like to provide a more flexible approach'

11:17:53 <cygri> 1. we would like to provide a simple way of using qb, although we understand that this simplification is not always appropriate

Richard Cyganiak: 1. we would like to provide a simple way of using qb, although we understand that this simplification is not always appropriate

11:18:24 <cygri> 2. it's important to allow re-use of existing identifiers that orgs already have; forcing creation of parallel skos hierarchies not good.

Richard Cyganiak: 2. it's important to allow re-use of existing identifiers that orgs already have; forcing creation of parallel skos hierarchies not good.

11:18:55 <DaveReynolds> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2013Apr/0017.html

Dave Reynolds: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2013Apr/0017.html

11:19:12 <DeirdreLee> DaveReynolds: agrees with cygri

Dave Reynolds: agrees with cygri

11:19:32 <bhyland> +1 to cygri's summary, always provide a simple way to use QB

Bernadette Hyland: +1 to cygri's summary, always provide a simple way to use QB

11:20:02 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers

11:20:16 <DeirdreLee> ... cygri's point misses that there is information that skos cannot capture

... cygri's point misses that there is information that skos cannot capture

11:20:33 <cygri> 3. even in SKOS there can be multiple hierarchies (e.g. containment and admin reporting)

Richard Cyganiak: 3. even in SKOS there can be multiple hierarchies (e.g. containment and admin reporting)

11:21:49 <DeirdreLee> DaveReynolds: there are genuine reasons for hierarchical representations other than skos

Dave Reynolds: there are genuine reasons for hierarchical representations other than skos

11:21:52 <cygri> rephrasing… 3. there are genuine reasons for using other relationships than SKOS broader/narrower, for example when there are multiple hierarchies

Richard Cyganiak: rephrasing… 3. there are genuine reasons for using other relationships than SKOS broader/narrower, for example when there are multiple hierarchies

11:22:44 <DeirdreLee> cygri: hierarchical codelist feature allows us to address this

Richard Cyganiak: hierarchical codelist feature allows us to address this

11:23:35 <DeirdreLee> DaveReynolds: Frank is right that it opens the door to confused representations, but it also opens the door to good representations

Dave Reynolds: Franck is right that it opens the door to confused representations, but it also opens the door to good representations

11:23:50 <DaveReynolds> s/Frank/Franck/
11:24:34 <DeirdreLee> PROPOSAL: We keep the qb:HierarchicalCodeList and DaveReynolds explaining the reasoning for this

PROPOSED: We keep the qb:HierarchicalCodeList and DaveReynolds explaining the reasoning for this

11:24:41 <cygri> +1

Richard Cyganiak: +1

11:24:53 <fadmaa> +1

Fadi Maali: +1

11:24:56 <gatemezi> +1

Ghislain Atemezing: +1

11:24:59 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

11:25:03 <DaveReynolds> +1 (I will improve email based on this discussion)

Dave Reynolds: +1 (I will improve email based on this discussion)

11:25:05 <boris> +1

Boris Villazón-Terrazas: +1

11:25:16 <cgueret2> +1

Christophe Gueret: +1

11:25:19 <martinA> +1

Martín Álvarez: +1

11:25:24 <MakxDekkers> got disconnected, now passcode 4531# is invalid

Makx Dekkers: got disconnected, now passcode 4531# is invalid

11:25:33 <cygri> zakim, code?

Richard Cyganiak: zakim, code?

11:25:33 <Zakim> the conference code is 4531 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 4531 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri

11:25:47 <PhilA> zakim, code?

Phil Archer: zakim, code?

11:25:47 <Zakim> the conference code is 4531 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 4531 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA

11:25:57 <PhilA> hmm...

Phil Archer: hmm...

11:25:57 <bhyland> Sorry Makx!

Bernadette Hyland: Sorry Makx!

11:26:01 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers

11:26:10 <MakxDekkers> OK back in

Makx Dekkers: OK back in

11:26:49 <MakxDekkers> zakim, mute me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, mute me

11:26:49 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should now be muted

11:26:54 <cygri> q?

Richard Cyganiak: q?

11:27:00 <MakxDekkers> yes

Makx Dekkers: yes

11:27:24 <HadleyBeeman> Cygri, is this still up to date then? http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Data_Cube_Timetable

Hadley Beeman: Cygri, is this still up to date then? http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Data_Cube_Timetable

11:27:31 <MakxDekkers> yes fine now

Makx Dekkers: yes fine now

11:28:40 <DeirdreLee> PhilA: in the table of LC comments, there is evidence of use. How extensive is this evidence? Is it enough to get out of CR?

Phil Archer: in the table of LC comments, there is evidence of use. How extensive is this evidence? Is it enough to get out of CR?

11:29:21 <DeirdreLee> cygri: there are 2 kinds of implenations we want to consider, one is datasets, the second is consuming applications

Richard Cyganiak: there are 2 kinds of implenations we want to consider, one is datasets, the second is consuming applications

11:30:21 <HadleyBeeman> RESOLVED: We keep the qb:HierarchicalCodeList and DaveReynolds explaining the reasoning for this

RESOLVED: We keep the qb:HierarchicalCodeList and DaveReynolds explaining the reasoning for this

11:30:22 <DeirdreLee> ... there are plenty of datasets that use qb, whose well-formedness can easily be tested based on spec

... there are plenty of datasets that use qb, whose well-formedness can easily be tested based on spec

11:32:20 <DeirdreLee> PhilA: it's not up to datacube to prove that it can be consumed

Phil Archer: it's not up to datacube to prove that it can be consumed

11:33:08 <DeirdreLee> cygri: agree, but, for integration purposes, it is useful to show that there are consuming applications

Richard Cyganiak: agree, but, for integration purposes, it is useful to show that there are consuming applications

11:33:30 <DeirdreLee> PhilA: how long would it take to create a document reporting this?

Phil Archer: how long would it take to create a document reporting this?

11:33:45 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

11:34:16 <DeirdreLee> DaveReynolds: What is missing is exactly what terms have been used

Dave Reynolds: What is missing is exactly what terms have been used

11:34:54 <DeirdreLee> ... but this is based on the CR criteria of all the vocabularies

... but this is based on the CR criteria of all the vocabularies

11:34:56 <sandro> +1 we need a broader discussion of CR criteria.    (I'm not very comfortable with ignoring consumers.)

Sandro Hawke: +1 we need a broader discussion of CR criteria. (I'm not very comfortable with ignoring consumers.)

11:35:15 <DeirdreLee> PhilA: answer from cygri on if we can skip CR is 'no'

Phil Archer: answer from cygri on if we can skip CR is 'no'

11:36:03 <sandro> (CR is both a validation of the market and of the technology)

Sandro Hawke: (CR is both a validation of the market and of the technology)

11:36:15 <DeirdreLee> cygri: if we wanted to, we could create a small implementation report, reaching out to community using qb

Richard Cyganiak: if we wanted to, we could create a small implementation report, reaching out to community using qb

11:36:29 <DeirdreLee> ... but this engagement would take more than 2 or 3 weeks

... but this engagement would take more than 2 or 3 weeks

11:37:11 <DeirdreLee> bhyland: we will add an item to the agenda 'CR exit criteria'

Bernadette Hyland: we will add an item to the agenda 'CR exit criteria'

11:38:25 <MakxDekkers> have to leave -- lunch is being served. back at 13:30 your time

Makx Dekkers: have to leave -- lunch is being served. back at 13:30 your time

11:38:33 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers

11:38:33 <HadleyBeeman> cheers, makxdekkers

Hadley Beeman: cheers, makxdekkers

11:38:58 <DeirdreLee> cgueret:: is there plans in qb to include openannotation for tagging?

Christophe Gueret: : is there plans in qb to include openannotation for tagging?

11:39:48 <DeirdreLee> cygri: this issue comes up often with lots of different vocabularies, for example prov, how to we treat their relations with other vocabularies

Richard Cyganiak: this issue comes up often with lots of different vocabularies, for example prov, how to we treat their relations with other vocabularies

11:40:08 <DeirdreLee> ... better to address this issue generally for a link to any other vocabulary

... better do address this issue generally for a link do any other vocabulary

11:40:31 <DeirdreLee> s/to/do
11:41:13 <DaveReynolds> q+

Dave Reynolds: q+

11:41:24 <DeirdreLee> ... these are orthogonal issues, so should not be closely tied within the vocab spec

... these are orthogonal issues, so should not be closely tied within the vocab spec

11:42:03 <PhilA> ack DaveReynolds

Phil Archer: ack DaveReynolds

11:42:21 <DeirdreLee> DaveReynolds: might it be worthwhile to document this in the bp guide?

Dave Reynolds: might it be worthwhile to document this in the bp guide?

11:43:06 <cygri> DaveReynolds++ great phrasing

Richard Cyganiak: DaveReynolds++ great phrasing

11:43:12 <DeirdreLee> ... interlinking vocabularies should be loosely coupled so they may be mix and matched

... interlinking vocabularies should be loosely coupled so they may be mix and matched

11:43:19 <DeirdreLee> bhyland: like lego :)

Bernadette Hyland: like lego :)

11:44:20 <DeirdreLee> cygri: discussion on datacube done

Richard Cyganiak: discussion on datacube done

11:44:49 <HadleyBeeman> And to lunch.  We're back here for 13:45 (1 hour from now)

Hadley Beeman: And to lunch. We're back here for 13:45 (1 hour from now)

11:44:54 <cygri> DaveReynolds: vocabularies as modular building blocks… don't artificially tightly couple them

Dave Reynolds: vocabularies as modular building blocks… don't artificially tightly couple them [ Scribe Assist by Richard Cyganiak ]

11:45:00 <DeirdreLee> HadleyBeeman: will reconvene at 13:45 Irish time

Hadley Beeman: will reconvene at 13:45 Irish time

11:45:03 <martinA> ok, bye

Martín Álvarez: ok, bye

11:45:12 <Zakim> -martinA

Zakim IRC Bot: -martinA

11:45:13 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

11:45:22 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds

Zakim IRC Bot: -DaveReynolds

12:08:58 <Zakim> +Mike_Pendleton

(No events recorded for 23 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: +Mike_Pendleton

12:12:04 <Zakim> -Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: -Mike_Pendleton

12:12:39 <Zakim> +Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: +Mike_Pendleton

12:13:16 <Zakim> -Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: -Mike_Pendleton

12:21:13 <sandro> Hey Mike.   They're at lunch until :45

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

Sandro Hawke: Hey Mike. They're at lunch until :45

12:33:55 <Mike_Pendleton> Thanks Sandro

(No events recorded for 12 minutes)

Michael Pendleton: Thanks Sandro

12:45:54 <Zakim> +Sandro

(No events recorded for 11 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

12:46:48 <Zakim> +Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: +Mike_Pendleton

12:47:49 <MakxDekkers> let us know when you resume

Makx Dekkers: let us know when you resume

12:48:41 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

12:49:08 <Zakim> +??P32

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P32

12:49:26 <martinA> zakim, ??P32 is me

Martín Álvarez: zakim, ??P32 is me

12:49:26 <Zakim> +martinA; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +martinA; got it

12:52:50 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers

12:53:26 <MakxDekkers> can we get hangout visual back?

Makx Dekkers: can we get hangout visual back?

12:54:31 <MakxDekkers> thanks, hangout is back

Makx Dekkers: thanks, hangout is back

12:54:32 <PhilA> Derirde will sort the Google Hangout thing shortly MakxDekkers

Phil Archer: Derirde will sort the Google Hangout thing shortly MakxDekkers

12:54:41 <MakxDekkers> I can see you

Makx Dekkers: I can see you

12:59:08 <MakxDekkers> zkaim, mute me

Makx Dekkers: zkaim, mute me

12:59:13 <MakxDekkers> zakim, mute me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, mute me

12:59:13 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should now be muted

12:59:32 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?

Bernadette Hyland: zakim, who is on the call?

12:59:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, Mike_Pendleton, DaveReynolds, martinA, MakxDekkers (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, Mike_Pendleton, DaveReynolds, martinA, MakxDekkers (muted)

12:59:34 <Zakim> GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA

12:59:40 <MakxDekkers> hearing lots of noise

Makx Dekkers: hearing lots of noise

12:59:43 <HadleyBeeman> Welcome back from lunch

Hadley Beeman: Welcome back from lunch

12:59:46 <Zakim> -Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: -Mike_Pendleton

12:59:54 <MakxDekkers> feedback ;)

Makx Dekkers: feedback ;)

13:00:04 <DeirdreLee> hey, if you want to join visually via google hangout, post email address

hey, if you want to join visually via google hangout, post email address

13:00:08 <bhyland> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/F2F3#DRAFT_Agenda
13:00:14 <Zakim> +Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: +Mike_Pendleton

13:00:36 <martinA> Please, DeirdreLee martin.alvarez@fundacionctic.org

Martín Álvarez: Please, DeirdreLee martin.alvarez@fundacionctic.org

13:01:06 <MakxDekkers> OK now

Makx Dekkers: OK now

13:01:50 <fadmaa> presentation for DCAT LC comments:

Fadi Maali: presentation for DCAT LC comments:

13:01:51 <fadmaa> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/images/7/7b/Dcat-lc-comments.pptx

Fadi Maali: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/images/7/7b/Dcat-lc-comments.pptx

13:05:45 <HadleyBeeman> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/images/7/7b/Dcat-lc-comments.pptx

Hadley Beeman: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/images/7/7b/Dcat-lc-comments.pptx

13:06:58 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?

Bernadette Hyland: zakim, who is on the call?

13:06:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, DaveReynolds, martinA, MakxDekkers (muted), Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, DaveReynolds, martinA, MakxDekkers (muted), Mike_Pendleton

13:07:00 <Zakim> GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA

13:07:17 <MakxDekkers> Not very well

Makx Dekkers: Not very well

13:07:27 <bhyland> We just moved the mic next to Fadi

Bernadette Hyland: We just moved the mic next to Fadi

13:07:27 <martinA> Better

Martín Álvarez: Better

13:07:31 <MakxDekkers> better

Makx Dekkers: better

13:07:31 <martinA> good, thanks

Martín Álvarez: good, thanks

13:08:36 <bhyland> Topic: DCAT Last Call Comments

7. DCAT Last Call Comments

Summary: There are 23 issues on the wiki page and cygri proposes we get guidance from WG on what editors can safely edit vs. are possibly substantive ...

13:08:52 <bhyland>  Facilitator: Fadi

Bernadette Hyland: Facilitator: Fadi

13:08:55 <bhyland> Scribe: Bernadette

(Scribe set to Bernadette Hyland)

13:09:13 <MakxDekkers> can faadi speak a little slower please

Makx Dekkers: can faadi speak a little slower please

13:09:15 <bhyland> Slides for Fadi's pres: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/images/7/7b/Dcat-lc-comments.pptx

Slides for Fadi's pres: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/images/7/7b/Dcat-lc-comments.pptx

13:10:13 <bhyland> Fadi plans to highlight the issues raised followed by more detailed discussion.

Fadi plans to highlight the issues raised followed by more detailed discussion.

13:10:18 <MakxDekkers> please refer to slide number

Makx Dekkers: please refer to slide number

13:10:31 <cygri> slide "Changes to existing terms"

Richard Cyganiak: slide "Changes to existing terms"

13:11:00 <bhyland>  Slide: 9

Slide: 9

13:11:05 <gatemezi> slide 9: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-comments/2013Apr/0009.html

Ghislain Atemezing: slide 9: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-comments/2013Apr/0009.html

13:11:15 <MakxDekkers> what about slide 8?

Makx Dekkers: what about slide 8?

13:11:35 <DaveReynolds> Very hard to follow. Was anything decided on sdates

Dave Reynolds: Very hard to follow. Was anything decided on dates?

13:11:43 <DaveReynolds> s/sdates/dates?/
13:11:46 <PhilA> no, not that I know of DaveReynolds

Phil Archer: no, not that I know of DaveReynolds

13:12:14 <bhyland> Slides 2-7 were all editorial mods that Fadi will handle.

Slides 2-7 were all editorial mods that Fadi will handle.

13:12:57 <MakxDekkers> I strongly agree with Phil that using "01" is a bad idea

Makx Dekkers: I strongly agree with Phil that using "01" is a bad idea

13:13:06 <bhyland> Slide 8: Noted but need to discuss.

Slide 8: Noted but need to discuss.

13:14:52 <bhyland> Richard: As a procedural note, editors must be clear on action plan for 1) editorial changes (ed's just do it); 2) requires WG input - will be tough to do in R/T in F2F, suggest raising formal issues in Tracker

Richard Cyganiak: As a procedural note, editors must be clear on action plan for 1) editorial changes (ed's just do it); 2) requires WG input - will be tough to do in R/T in F2F, suggest raising formal issues in Tracker

13:16:17 <bhyland> … Note: Substantial vs. non-substantial changes must be noted.  In the case of *substantial* comments it implies we'll go to another LC so everyone has a chance of looking at the entire thing.  No one should be surprised when it comes out as a Rec track deliverable.

… Note: Substantial vs. non-substantial changes must be noted. In the case of *substantial* comments it implies we'll go to another LC so everyone has a chance of looking at the entire thing. No one should be surprised when it comes out as a Rec track deliverable.

13:16:53 <bhyland> … Modifications that cause changes to conformance are considered substantial.

… Modifications that cause changes to conformance are considered substantial.

13:17:38 <bhyland> … editorial changes are fixing: typos, improving clarification, and similar level changes — that is all non-substantive

… editorial changes are fixing: typos, improving clarification, and similar level changes — that is all non-substantive

13:18:04 <bhyland> Slide 9: Changes to existing terms, needs more discussion.

Slide 9: Changes to existing terms, needs more discussion.

13:18:30 <bhyland> Slide 10: Also change to existing terms, submitted by Makx

Slide 10: Also change to existing terms, submitted by Makx

13:19:24 <bhyland> Agreed, not substantive.

Agreed, not substantive.

13:19:50 <bhyland>  Slide: 11: Change to existing terms from Bill Roberts

Slide: 11: Change to existing terms from Bill Roberts

13:19:57 <MakxDekkers> There is a proposed vocabulary but it was never finalised

Makx Dekkers: There is a proposed vocabulary but it was never finalised

13:20:35 <bhyland> Slide 12: Changes to existing terms from JeniT

Slide 12: Changes to existing terms from JeniT

13:20:51 <bhyland> Needs further discussion

Needs further discussion

13:21:03 <MakxDekkers> http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/metadata/dcmi/collection-DCCDAccrualPeriodicity/

Makx Dekkers: http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/metadata/dcmi/collection-DCCDAccrualPeriodicity/

13:21:04 <bhyland> Slide 13: Changes to existing terms

Slide 13: Changes to existing terms

13:21:14 <MakxDekkers> going too fast for me

Makx Dekkers: going too fast for me

13:21:35 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments

Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments

13:22:14 <MakxDekkers> what was the conclusion on slide 13?

Makx Dekkers: what was the conclusion on slide 13?

13:22:43 <bhyland> Needs further discussion (just arrived this AM)

Needs further discussion (just arrived this AM)

13:22:48 <MakxDekkers> OK

Makx Dekkers: OK

13:22:56 <bhyland> Slide 14: Adding new terms from JeniT

Slide 14: Adding new terms from JeniT

13:23:08 <bhyland> Needs further discussion

Needs further discussion

13:23:31 <MakxDekkers> DCAT call would be good idea

Makx Dekkers: DCAT call would be good idea

13:23:47 <bhyland> Action: Fadi to organize a call with people who are able to help resolve open DCAT issues.

ACTION: Fadi to organize a call with people who are able to help resolve open DCAT issues.

13:23:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-112 - Organize a call with people who are able to help resolve open DCAT issues. [on Fadi Maali - due 2013-04-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-112 - Organize a call with people who are able to help resolve open DCAT issues. [on Fadi Maali - due 2013-04-18].

13:23:58 <bhyland> Slide 15: Adding new terms

Slide 15: Adding new terms

13:24:34 <bhyland> Possible plan to follow what ADMS does but requires further discussion.

Possible plan to follow what ADMS does but requires further discussion.

13:24:48 <bhyland> Slide 16: Adding new terms from ChristopherG

Slide 16: Adding new terms from ChristopherG

13:25:31 <bhyland> Possible plan to follow what ADMS  or OpenOrg does but requires further discussion.

Possible plan to follow what ADMS or OpenOrg does but requires further discussion.

13:25:34 <MakxDekkers> Correct

Makx Dekkers: Correct

13:26:30 <bhyland> Slide 17: Adding new terms from Bill R

Slide 17: Adding new terms from Bill R

13:27:03 <bhyland> There doesn't seem to be a vocab to describe granularity, so if DCAT offers it, we may have to come up with a new term.

There doesn't seem to be a vocab to describe granularity, so if DCAT offers it, we may have to come up with a new term.

13:27:22 <MakxDekkers> Not sure what "channelling someone" means?

Makx Dekkers: Not sure what "channelling someone" means?

13:27:57 <MakxDekkers> OK!

Makx Dekkers: OK!

13:28:33 <bhyland> Slide 18: Adding new terms from Ed S.

Slide 18: Adding new terms from Ed S.

13:29:09 <MakxDekkers> why not add a relationship to DCAT proper?

Makx Dekkers: why not add a relationship to DCAT proper?

13:29:44 <MakxDekkers> lot of people seem to be asking for it

Makx Dekkers: lot of people seem to be asking for it

13:30:47 <bhyland> Fadi: Due to concerns of conformance, Fadi is concerned about adding "related" to dct because if will break things.

Fadi Maali: Due to concerns of conformance, Fadi is concerned about adding "related" to dct because if will break things.

13:31:03 <MakxDekkers> can we further discuss this?

Makx Dekkers: can we further discuss this?

13:31:08 <bhyland> Yes!

Yes!

13:31:21 <MakxDekkers> OK

Makx Dekkers: OK

13:31:26 <bhyland>  Slide: 19

Slide: 19

13:31:35 <bhyland> Scope of DCAT from Stuart H

Scope of DCAT from Stuart H

13:31:46 <bhyland> Wants to broaden scope ...

Wants to broaden scope ...

13:32:45 <bhyland> Fadi: While many people ask for this, he is concerned about complexity as well as, others specs address this albeit not in RDF.

Fadi Maali: While many people ask for this, he is concerned about complexity as well as, others specs address this albeit not in RDF.

13:32:56 <bhyland> Requires further discussion

Requires further discussion

13:33:55 <bhyland> Slide 20: Scope of DCAT from AndreaP

Slide 20: Scope of DCAT from AndreaP

13:34:53 <bhyland> From INSPIRE Directive team (see http://inspire.jrc.ec.europa.eu/)

From INSPIRE Directive team (see http://inspire.jrc.ec.europa.eu/)

13:35:06 <MakxDekkers> One issue is that peopel think that dataset = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_set, so basically tabular data

Makx Dekkers: One issue is that peopel think that dataset = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_set, so basically tabular data

13:37:14 <MakxDekkers> not defining is not always good

Makx Dekkers: not defining is not always good

13:37:24 <bhyland> Fadi: Mailing list comments have included wider and broader definitions of dataset.

Fadi Maali: Mailing list comments have inferred wider and broader definitions of dataset.

13:37:55 <bhyland> s/included/inferred
13:38:27 <MakxDekkers> waht about a dataset on paper?

Makx Dekkers: waht about a dataset on paper?

13:38:47 <bhyland> Action: bhyland to add a dataset definition to the glossary (and cygri to help define it!!)

ACTION: bhyland to add a dataset definition to the glossary (and cygri to help define it!!)

13:38:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-113 - Add a dataset definition to the glossary (and cygri to help define it!!) [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2013-04-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-113 - Add a dataset definition to the glossary (and cygri to help define it!!) [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2013-04-18].

13:39:28 <bhyland> Discussion ensued about what the definition of a "dataset" is.

Discussion ensued about what the definition of a "dataset" is.

13:40:09 <MakxDekkers> isn't an API an access point to a dataset?

Makx Dekkers: isn't an API an access point to a dataset?

13:40:25 <PhilA> A favourite resolution of Dom in such situations is to 'remain silent'

Phil Archer: A favourite resolution of Dom in such situations is to 'remain silent'

13:40:47 <MakxDekkers> not defining creates confusion

Makx Dekkers: not defining creates confusion

13:41:00 <bhyland> Cygri: Believes we should avoid defining a "dataset", avoiding controversial edge cases about what a dataset is.

Richard Cyganiak: Believes we should avoid defining a "dataset", avoiding controversial edge cases about what a dataset is.

13:41:24 <bhyland> … the scope of DCAT is datasets (but we leave the definition of *what* a dataset is to the reader).

… the scope of DCAT is datasets (but we leave the definition of *what* a dataset is to the reader).

13:41:51 <gatemezi> @bhyland: And what will be that *definition* of dataset in a Glossary?

Ghislain Atemezing: @bhyland: And what will be that *definition* of dataset in a Glossary?

13:42:06 <MakxDekkers> if a dataset can be anything, just say that

Makx Dekkers: if a dataset can be anything, just say that

13:42:47 <bhyland> cgueret: People can use it how they wish ...

Christophe Gueret: People can use it how they wish ...

13:43:23 <MakxDekkers> if a dataset can be anything, an API is a dataset

Makx Dekkers: if a dataset can be anything, an API is a dataset

13:44:01 <MakxDekkers> never use circular definitions!

Makx Dekkers: never use circular definitions!

13:45:00 <DaveReynolds> Seems to me essence of DCAT is data resources that can be transmitted over a comms network. So code list, model etc is a dataset in that sense a person is not.  Means that dcat:Dataset = information resource

Dave Reynolds: Seems to me essence of DCAT is data resources that can be transmitted over a comms network. So code list, model etc is a dataset in that sense a person is not. Means that dcat:Dataset = information resource

13:45:17 <MakxDekkers>  correction: an API is a distribution (access point) of a dataset

Makx Dekkers: correction: an API is a distribution (access point) of a dataset

13:45:27 <DaveReynolds> So a dcat Dataset is anything for which http-range-14 doesn't bite :)

Dave Reynolds: So a dcat Dataset is anything for which http-range-14 doesn't bite :)

13:46:57 <cygri> Makx++

Richard Cyganiak: Makx++

13:47:00 <bhyland> Fadi proposes dataset = "A collection of data, published or curated by a single source, and available for access or download in one or more formats."

Fadi proposes dataset = "A collection of data, published or curated by a single source, and available for access or download in one or more formats."

13:47:13 <MakxDekkers> isn't an API not just an accessURL?

Makx Dekkers: isn't an API not just an accessURL?

13:47:58 <bhyland> See above ;-)

See above ;-)

13:48:15 <MakxDekkers> or API-URL as subproperty of accessURL

Makx Dekkers: or API-URL as subproperty of accessURL

13:48:39 <sandro> "source" or "organization"  ?

Sandro Hawke: "source" or "organization" ?

13:48:52 <sandro> "foaf:Agent" ?

Sandro Hawke: "foaf:Agent" ?

13:49:27 <bhyland> Revision v1.0 - dataset = "A collection of data, published or curated by a single agent, and available for access or download in one or more formats."

Revision v1.0 - dataset = "A collection of data, published or curated by a single agent, and available for access or download in one or more formats."

13:49:38 <MakxDekkers> sandro, I made that comment

Makx Dekkers: sandro, I made that comment

13:49:56 <MakxDekkers> agree with foaf:Agent

Makx Dekkers: agree with foaf:Agent

13:50:50 <bhyland> PhilA: Key stakeholders in greater Open Data on the Web world care about APIs and Access points … there are many ways to access data and we mustn't limit its use.

Phil Archer: Key stakeholders in greater Open Data on the Web world care about APIs and Access points … there are many ways to access data and we mustn't limit its use.

13:51:27 <gatemezi> according to the spec; dcat:Dataset dct:publisher foaf:Agent

Ghislain Atemezing: according to the spec; dcat:Dataset dct:publisher foaf:Agent

13:53:27 <bhyland> cygri: Again, very concerned about having a precise definition because he doesn't want to exclude constituents who might otherwise use DCAT ...

Richard Cyganiak: Again, very concerned about having a precise definition because he doesn't want to exclude constituents who might otherwise use DCAT ...

13:53:32 <MakxDekkers> cygri makes things worse

Makx Dekkers: cygri makes things worse

13:53:47 <MakxDekkers> just say "a dataset can be anything"!

Makx Dekkers: just say "a dataset can be anything"!

13:54:33 <bhyland> cygri - preferes to talk more about the purpose of DCAT rather than what a "dataset" is.

cygri - preferes to talk more about the purpose of DCAT rather than what a "dataset" is.

13:55:24 <bhyland> q?

q?

13:56:59 <bhyland> Fadi: Further clarification about properties for a distribution are necessary and will help reduce questions / confusion.

Fadi Maali: Further clarification about properties for a distribution are necessary and will help reduce questions / confusion.

13:57:35 <bhyland> PhilA: Most people (at least PhilA) look at the diagram to reflect the spec.

Phil Archer: Most people (at least PhilA) look at the diagram to reflect the spec.

13:57:46 <DaveReynolds> Discussion seems to be about APIs but  Andrea Perego comment is not (just) about APIs, it's about whether dct Dataset includes code lists, video, software etc

Dave Reynolds: Discussion seems to be about APIs but  Andrea Perego comment is not (just) about APIs, it's about whether dct Dataset includes code lists, video, software etc

13:57:50 <gatemezi> In the library word: a dataset is "collection of structured metadata — descriptions of things, such as books in a library. The equivalent of a dataset in the library world is a collection of library records." ..see http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/XGR-lld-vocabdataset-20111025/

Ghislain Atemezing: In the library world: a dataset is "collection of structured metadata — descriptions of things, such as books in a library. The equivalent of a dataset in the library world is a collection of library records." ..see http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/XGR-lld-vocabdataset-20111025/

13:58:04 <gatemezi> s/word/world
13:58:06 <DaveReynolds> Answer to that is "yes", isn't it?

Dave Reynolds: Answer to that is "yes", isn't it?

13:58:30 <HadleyBeeman> To which, DaveReynolds?

Hadley Beeman: To which, DaveReynolds?

13:58:38 <DaveReynolds> My comment

Dave Reynolds: Andrea comment

13:58:49 <DaveReynolds> Discussion seems to be about APIs but  Andrea Perego comment is not (just) about APIs, it's about whether dct Dataset includes code lists, video, software etc

Dave Reynolds: Discussion seems to be about APIs but  Andrea Perego comment is not (just) about APIs, it's about whether dct Dataset includes code lists, video, software etc

13:59:00 <DaveReynolds> s/My/Andrea/
13:59:16 <MakxDekkers> what about the text of a law? is that a dataset?

Makx Dekkers: what about the text of a law? is that a dataset?

13:59:23 <bhyland> cygri: I have yet to see a proposed use for DCAT that won't work.  Meaning, yes, you can use it for what you're planning but we hadn't previously anticipated your use case, but it would work.

Richard Cyganiak: I have yet to see a proposed use for DCAT that won't work. Meaning, yes, you can use it for what you're planning but we hadn't previously anticipated your use case, but it would work.

13:59:31 <HadleyBeeman> makxdekkers I think it is on legislation.gov.uk

Hadley Beeman: makxdekkers I think it is on legislation.gov.uk

14:00:01 <MakxDekkers> OK fine, that's what I am going to need

Makx Dekkers: OK fine, that's what I am going to need

14:00:39 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers

14:00:54 <bhyland> cygri: DCAT can be used for a broad range of assets and DCAT is about creating a catalog of them.

Richard Cyganiak: DCAT can be used for a broad range of assets and DCAT is about creating a catalog of them.

14:00:56 <DaveReynolds> Andrea essentially asks if DCAT applies to "catalogues of any type of information resources". Jokes on http-range-14 aside, that seems right to me.

Dave Reynolds: Andrea essentially asks if DCAT applies to "catalogues of any type of information resources". Jokes on http-range-14 aside, that seems right to me.

14:01:08 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers

14:01:51 <MakxDekkers> Agree with Phil, of course!

Makx Dekkers: Agree with Phil, of course!

14:02:14 <bhyland> PhilA: DCAT uses AccessURL to point to an API.

Phil Archer: DCAT uses AccessURL to point to an API.

14:02:38 <MakxDekkers> Or define API-URL as a subproperty of accessURL

Makx Dekkers: Or define API-URL as a subproperty of accessURL

14:03:46 <cygri> "…by a single person, organisation or other kind of agent…"

Richard Cyganiak: "…by a single person, organisation or other kind of agent…"

14:04:06 <MakxDekkers> Thinking back to the discussion that led to downloadURL

Makx Dekkers: Thinking back to the discussion that led to downloadURL

14:04:17 <cgueret> Or define an API datatype

Christophe Gueret: Or define an API datatype

14:05:44 <HadleyBeeman> MaksDekkers: I asked JeniT (wrt her legislation.gov.uk work) re text of law as a dataset.  Her response:  "I'd more usually think of *all* the legislation making up the dataset, but for sure you could have subsets which could be as small as a single version of a single item of legislation"

Makx Dekkers: I asked JeniT (wrt her legislation.gov.uk work) re text of law as a dataset. Her response: "I'd more usually think of *all* the legislation making up the dataset, but for sure you could have subsets which could be as small as a single version of a single item of legislation" [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ]

14:05:52 <HadleyBeeman> Does that help?

Hadley Beeman: Does that help?

14:06:58 <gatemezi> s/MaksDekkers/MakxDekkers
14:07:00 <bhyland> PhilA: If there someday is a Open Data on the Web WG, would having WSDL for the open data community.

Phil Archer: If there someday is a Open Data on the Web WG, would having WSDL for the open data community be helpful?

14:07:09 <PhilA> zakim, call GLDMeetingRoom

Phil Archer: zakim, call GLDMeetingRoom

14:07:09 <Zakim> ok, PhilA; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA; the call is being made

14:07:11 <Zakim> +GLDMeetingRoom

Zakim IRC Bot: +GLDMeetingRoom

14:07:11 <MakxDekkers> Hadley, The initial answer was clearer: the text of a low is a dataset

Makx Dekkers: Hadley, The initial answer was clearer: the text of a law is a dataset

14:07:14 <bhyland> sorry remote callers, Zakim rudely excused himself ...

sorry remote callers, Zakim rudely excused himself ...

14:07:19 <bhyland> we're dialing back in now

we're dialing back in now

14:07:31 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?

Phil Archer: zakim, who is here?

14:07:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, DaveReynolds, martinA, Mike_Pendleton, MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, DaveReynolds, martinA, Mike_Pendleton, MakxDekkers

14:07:32 <MakxDekkers> s/low/law/
14:07:34 <Zakim> GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA

14:07:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see TallTed, cgueret, screen1, DeirdreLee, bhyland, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, Screen, BartvanLeeuwen, martinA, Mike_Pendleton, gatemezi, cygri, RRSAgent, Zakim, MakxDekkers,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see TallTed, cgueret, screen1, DeirdreLee, bhyland, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, Screen, BartvanLeeuwen, martinA, Mike_Pendleton, gatemezi, cygri, RRSAgent, Zakim, MakxDekkers,

14:07:36 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?

zakim, who is on the call?

14:07:37 <Zakim> ... DaveReynolds, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... DaveReynolds, sandro, trackbot

14:07:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, DaveReynolds, martinA, Mike_Pendleton, MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, DaveReynolds, martinA, Mike_Pendleton, MakxDekkers

14:07:37 <Zakim> GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA

14:07:41 <sandro> we're here, yes

Sandro Hawke: we're here, yes

14:07:44 <HadleyBeeman> MakxDekkers:  It was my definition, as opposed to representing theirs.  (Which, it turns out, is a bit more nuanced)

Makx Dekkers: It was my definition, as opposed to representing theirs. (Which, it turns out, is a bit more nuanced) [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ]

14:07:49 <MakxDekkers> i'm still here

Makx Dekkers: i'm still here

14:08:32 <bhyland> s/WSDL for the open data community./WSDL for the open data community be helpful?
14:09:06 <PhilA> zakim, who's making noise?

Phil Archer: zakim, who's making noise?

14:09:16 <MakxDekkers> zakim, mute me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, mute me

14:09:16 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should now be muted

14:09:17 <Zakim> PhilA, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MakxDekkers (70%), GLDMeetingRoom (74%)

Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MakxDekkers (70%), GLDMeetingRoom (74%)

14:11:48 <PhilA> PROPOSAL - That the text be clarified to say that dcat:Distribution is very general. We provide properties defined to describe a particular Distribution type, downloads, and that it is hoped that future work will define extensions for other types of Distribution

Phil Archer: PROPOSAL - That the text be clarified to say that dcat:Distribution is very general. We provide properties defined to describe a particular Distribution type, downloads, and that it is hoped that future work will define extensions for other types of Distribution

14:11:54 <bhyland> cygri: Would like to see further editorial content to explain downloadable files in particular.

Richard Cyganiak: Would like to see further editorial content to explain downloadable files in particular.

14:12:19 <bhyland> Fadi: Concerned that this change will break implementations.

Fadi Maali: Concerned that this change will break implementations.

14:15:06 <bhyland> Slide 21 & 22: Summary of Open Issues

Slide 21 & 22: Summary of Open Issues

14:15:39 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments

Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments

14:17:35 <bhyland> Summary: There are 23 issues on the wiki page and cygri proposes we get guidance from WG on what editors can safely edit vs. are possible substantive ...
14:17:46 <bhyland> s/possible/possibly
14:18:12 <Zakim> -Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: -Mike_Pendleton

14:18:47 <DaveReynolds> Didn't we cover that while going through the slides?

Dave Reynolds: Didn't we cover that while going through the slides?

14:18:56 <DaveReynolds> Most went down as "needs discussion".

Dave Reynolds: Most went down as "needs discussion".

14:19:12 <DaveReynolds> Probably those probably need to be opened as issues for tracking.

Dave Reynolds: Probably those probably need to be opened as issues for tracking.

14:19:45 <Zakim> +Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: +Mike_Pendleton

14:19:46 <PhilA> zakim, time speakers at 30 seconds

Phil Archer: zakim, time speakers at 30 seconds

14:19:46 <Zakim> 60 seconds is the minimum, PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: 60 seconds is the minimum, PhilA

14:19:56 <PhilA> zakim, time speakers at 60 seconds

Phil Archer: zakim, time speakers at 60 seconds

14:19:57 <Zakim> ok, PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA

14:19:59 <PhilA> ack cygri

Phil Archer: ack cygri

14:20:35 <PhilA> fadi: First point needs no discussion

Fadi Maali: First point needs no discussion [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ]

14:20:42 <PhilA> .. next 3 do

Phil Archer: .. next 3 do

14:20:48 <PhilA> zakim, stop timing speakers

Phil Archer: zakim, stop timing speakers

14:20:48 <Zakim> ok, PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA

14:22:14 <PhilA> List of issues is being updated live. Basic resolutions being recorded as to which ones need further discussion and which are editorial http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments

Phil Archer: List of issues is being updated live. Basic resolutions being recorded as to which ones need further discussion and which are editorial http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments

14:22:36 <MakxDekkers> agree with cygri, keep it as it is

Makx Dekkers: agree with cygri, keep it as it is

14:25:13 <MakxDekkers> can't follwo

Makx Dekkers: can't follwo

14:25:21 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments

Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments

14:25:27 <MakxDekkers> zakim, unmute me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, unmute me

14:25:27 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should no longer be muted

14:25:27 <cygri> comment #17

Richard Cyganiak: comment #17

14:25:57 <MakxDekkers> #17 OK

Makx Dekkers: #17 OK

14:26:20 <MakxDekkers> #18 OK

Makx Dekkers: #18 OK

14:26:24 <PhilA> for HadleyBeeman - you need http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2013Apr/0009.html as evidence that 18 is resolved

Phil Archer: for HadleyBeeman - you need http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2013Apr/0009.html as evidence that 17 is resolved

14:26:31 <PhilA> s/18/17/
14:26:39 <MakxDekkers> #19 OK

Makx Dekkers: #19 OK

14:27:26 <MakxDekkers> #20 OK

Makx Dekkers: #20 OK

14:27:37 <MakxDekkers> #21 OK

Makx Dekkers: #21 OK

14:27:45 <MakxDekkers> #22 OK

Makx Dekkers: #22 OK

14:29:27 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes

Phil Archer: rrsagent, draft minutes

14:29:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-minutes.html PhilA

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-minutes.html PhilA

14:29:27 <martinA> I'm sorry, I have to leave.

Martín Álvarez: I'm sorry, I have to leave.

14:29:36 <MakxDekkers> zakim, mute me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, mute me

14:29:36 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should now be muted

14:29:46 <HadleyBeeman> 10 minutes break

Hadley Beeman: 10 minutes break

14:29:57 <Zakim> -martinA

Zakim IRC Bot: -martinA

14:29:59 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers

14:30:05 <MakxDekkers> be back in 10 mins

Makx Dekkers: be back in 10 mins

14:30:08 <martinA> See you tomorrow. Enjoy tonight's dinner

Martín Álvarez: See you tomorrow. Enjoy tonight's dinner

14:39:52 <bhyland> Agenda+ BP Timetable recap

(No events recorded for 9 minutes)

Agenda+ BP Timetable recap

14:41:56 <MakxDekkers> passcode 4531# again invalid

Makx Dekkers: passcode 4531# again invalid

14:42:09 <HadleyBeeman> Sorry, makxdekkers

Hadley Beeman: Sorry, makxdekkers

14:42:26 <PhilA> zakim, code?

Phil Archer: zakim, code?

14:42:26 <Zakim> the conference code is 4531 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 4531 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA

14:43:12 <HadleyBeeman> makxdekkers, we're trying to find a way to get you in :)

Hadley Beeman: makxdekkers, we're trying to find a way to get you in :)

14:43:29 <sandro> MakxDekkers, I bet it's just slightly-distorted DTMF.   Try longer tones, or trying repeatedly.

Sandro Hawke: MakxDekkers, I bet it's just slightly-distorted DTMF. Try longer tones, or trying repeatedly.

14:45:09 <bhyland> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/BP_Timetable#Detailed_timetable_and_checklist

http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/BP_Timetable#Detailed_timetable_and_checklist

14:45:49 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers

14:46:03 <PhilA> Topic: Community Directory

8. Community Directory

14:46:08 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA

(Scribe set to Phil Archer)

14:46:51 <PhilA> bhyland: Discussed timeline

Bernadette Hyland: Discussed timeline

14:47:09 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Updating the timeline itself

Hadley Beeman: Updating the timeline itself

14:48:05 <PhilA> bhyland: It should be in good shape by the end of this meeting

Bernadette Hyland: It should be in good shape by the end of this meeting

14:48:23 <MakxDekkers> zakim, mute me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, mute me

14:48:23 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should now be muted

14:48:35 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Suggest we stick to 29th as date of WG approval

Hadley Beeman: Suggest we stick to 29th as date of WG approval

14:49:31 <PhilA> sandro: We'll publish a FPWD earliest we can after 29 April and get comments

Sandro Hawke: We'll publish a FPWD earliest we can after 29 April and get comments

14:49:55 <PhilA> ... then update the doc and publish that revised version as a Note

... then update the doc and publish that revised version as a Note

14:50:25 <Zakim> + +91.80.67.84.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +91.80.67.84.aabb

14:50:35 <PhilA> bhyland: Target date would be for 3 weeks for comments -> publication of Note on 21 May

Bernadette Hyland: Target date would be for 3 weeks for comments -> publication of Note on 21 May

14:50:55 <PhilA> zakim, aabb is Biplav

zakim, aabb is Biplav

14:50:55 <Zakim> +Biplav; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Biplav; got it

14:51:09 <sandro> 1.   FPWG    2.  WGNOTE

Sandro Hawke: 1. FPWD 2. WGNOTE

14:51:11 <bhyland> See http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/BP_Timetable#Overview

Bernadette Hyland: See http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/BP_Timetable#Overview

14:51:29 <PhilA> s/FPWG/FPWD/
14:52:19 <PhilA> sandro: The date to record really is the one for the meeting when the WG will make the resolution

Sandro Hawke: The date to record really is the one for the meeting when the WG will make the resolution

14:52:56 <sandro> Hi PhilA

Sandro Hawke: Hi PhilA

14:53:18 <Biplav> q+

Biplav Srivastava: q+

14:53:57 <HadleyBeeman> scribe: hadleybeeman

(Scribe set to Hadley Beeman)

14:54:26 <HadleyBeeman> Topic: Community Directory

9. Community Directory

14:55:40 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland:  Previous version of the Community Directory had a login; UX, admin and user headaches resulted.  Over time 75 orgs registered.  Beyond having a triple store and storing the data in RDF, it wasn't a linked data application.  So we took on board the feedback and spent time re-doing it.

Bernadette Hyland: Previous version of the Community Directory had a login; UX, admin and user headaches resulted. Over time 75 orgs registered. Beyond having a triple store and storing the data in RDF, it wasn't a linked data application. So we took on board the feedback and spent time re-doing it.

14:55:53 <HadleyBeeman> … Now it's what we have on dir.w3.org

… Now it's what we have on dir.w3.org

14:56:03 <PhilA2> scribe: PhilA2

(Scribe set to Phil Archer)

14:56:04 <gatemezi>  ComDir: http://dir.w3.org/directory/pages/about.docbook?view

Ghislain Atemezing: ComDir: http://dir.w3.org/directory/pages/about.docbook?view

14:56:30 <PhilA2> bhyland: Talks through the input form for the Directory (or rather the RDF generator, Foaf-o-matic style)

Bernadette Hyland: Talks through the input form for the Directory (or rather the RDF generator, Foaf-o-matic style)

14:56:38 <sandro> bug report -- click on one of the contacts on http://dir.w3.org/directory/queries/org-view.rq?view&org=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2013%2F04%2Fgldcomdir.ttl%23org and you get five pop-up windows.  Or I do, at least.  (on firefox.)

Sandro Hawke: bug report -- click on one of the contacts on http://dir.w3.org/directory/queries/org-view.rq?view&org=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2013%2F04%2Fgldcomdir.ttl%23org and you get five pop-up windows. Or I do, at least. (on firefox.)

14:57:30 <PhilA2> bhyland: You get your dir.ttl file, publish that on a server somewhere and then tell the directory where to find it

Bernadette Hyland: You get your dir.ttl file, publish that on a server somewhere and then tell the directory where to find it

14:57:43 <PhilA2> PhilA2: I don't get those popups (Opera)

Phil Archer: I don't get those popups (Opera)

14:58:14 <PhilA2> It's trivial, getting RDF on to people's sites etc.

It's trivial, getting RDF on to people's sites etc.

14:58:15 <PhilA2> q+

q+

14:58:19 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+

Bart van Leeuwen: q+

14:58:36 <DaveReynolds> works on Chrome but do get 5 popups on firefox

Dave Reynolds: works on Chrome but do get 5 popups on firefox

14:58:39 <DeirdreLee_> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+

14:58:42 <PhilA2> bhyland: Putting the data there could be picked up by search etc.

Bernadette Hyland: Putting the data there could be picked up by search etc.

14:59:01 <PhilA2> ack Biplav

ack Biplav

14:59:25 <PhilA2> Biplav: First of all thank you for putting the Directory online. I see IBM is there

Biplav Srivastava: First of all thank you for putting the Directory online. I see IBM is there

14:59:38 <PhilA2> ... I wonder how a richer description could be created

... I wonder how a richer description could be created

15:00:03 <PhilA2> ... IBM's Web site has 130 country and language combinations. You see different things depending where you are

... IBM's Web site has 130 country and language combinations. You see different things depending where you are

15:00:14 <PhilA2> ... the Web site is managed by multiple groups

... the Web site is managed by multiple groups

15:00:41 <PhilA2> ... the basic entry - I'd like to update it with the homepages of the different regions

... the basic entry - I'd like to update it with the homepages of the different regions

15:01:21 <PhilA2> ... the main homepage of ibm.com redirects you. Is there a way to extract out the dependencies from data, if provided, based on its location etc.

... the main homepage of ibm.com redirects you. Is there a way to extract out the dependencies from data, if provided, based on its location etc.

15:01:47 <PhilA2> bhyland: I love the idea and I'd be happy for 3 Round Stones to compete against others to implement that for you

Bernadette Hyland: I love the idea and I'd be happy for 3 Round Stones to compete against others to implement that for you

15:02:15 <PhilA2> bhyland: But it goes well beyond what the directory is currently designed to do

Bernadette Hyland: But it goes well beyond what the directory is currently designed to do

15:02:34 <gatemezi> @biplav: why don't you suggest to describe IBM.com using org with all the sub-units?

Ghislain Atemezing: @biplav: why don't you suggest to describe IBM.com using org with all the sub-units?

15:02:55 <sandro> +1 vocab-org

Sandro Hawke: +1 vocab-org

15:03:02 <PhilA2> Biplav: Part of managing the Web site is part of each unit's responsibility

Biplav Srivastava: Part of managing the Web site is part of each unit's responsibility

15:03:27 <fadmaa> q?

Fadi Maali: q?

15:03:29 <PhilA2> ... I was wondering whether we could use ORG etc. and so on to do this, distributed data management etc,

... I was wondering whether we could use ORG etc. and so on to do this, distributed data management etc,

15:03:33 <PhilA2> q-

q-

15:03:38 <fadmaa> q+

Fadi Maali: q+

15:04:03 <PhilA2> bhyland: So you'd like to see 130 different entries for IBM? That's going to skew the data set

Bernadette Hyland: So you'd like to see 130 different entries for IBM? That's going to skew the data set

15:04:58 <sandro> Shouldn't we have 10,000 listings, once things are going well?

Sandro Hawke: Shouldn't we have 10,000 listings, once things are going well?

15:05:17 <sandro> I mean, there are over 1,000,000 governments in the world....   :-)

Sandro Hawke: I mean, there are over 1,000,000 governments in the world.... :-)

15:05:26 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to Sandro

Hadley Beeman: +1 to Sandro

15:05:33 <PhilA2> Biplav: There is no central catalogue for IBM, all the parts are locally managed

Biplav Srivastava: There is no central catalogue for IBM, all the parts are locally managed

15:05:39 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:06:58 <PhilA2> Furtehr discussion of Biplav's point about the way IBM's Web estate is managed

Furtehr discussion of Biplav's point about the way IBM's Web estate is managed

15:07:38 <PhilA2> ... we want to offer the relevant product catalogue - there is no central data source

... we want to offer the relevant product catalogue - there is no central data source

15:07:52 <PhilA2> bhyland: It's well beyond the scope of the community directory

Bernadette Hyland: It's well beyond the scope of the community directory

15:08:26 <PhilA2> ... we're just trying to provide a basic directory that can hook up different people working on the same thing

... we're just trying to provide a basic directory that can hook up different people working on the same thing

15:09:43 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: You're pointing out that the directory only ever gives one result irrespective of the user's location. It would be great to be able to accommodate that power if we can.

Hadley Beeman: You're pointing out that the directory only ever gives one result irrespective of the user's location. It would be great to be able to accommodate that power if we can.

15:09:58 <PhilA2> PhilA2: wonders where GeoSPARQL is the way to go here?

Phil Archer: wonders where GeoSPARQL is the way to go here?

15:10:37 <PhilA2> bhyland: We need nice looking, easy to use, easy to understand stuff suitably branded that happens to be based on LD

Bernadette Hyland: We need nice looking, easy to use, easy to understand stuff suitably branded that happens to be based on LD

15:11:59 <HadleyBeeman> q?

Hadley Beeman: q?

15:12:23 <PhilA2> I just got the popup bug sandro

I just got the popup bug sandro

15:12:26 <HadleyBeeman> ack bart

Hadley Beeman: ack bart

15:12:40 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen:  Does it only support turtle?

Bart van Leeuwen: Does it only support turtle?

15:12:51 <PhilA2> bhyland: I found out today that, for now, yes.

Bernadette Hyland: I found out today that, for now, yes.

15:13:04 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: I was thinking about RDFa coming from Drupal for example

Bart van Leeuwen: I was thinking about RDFa coming from Drupal for example

15:13:44 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: A Drupal plug in that you could say "here's our company contact page" and then the directory could go off and get it from the RDFa

Bart van Leeuwen: A Drupal plug in that you could say "here's our company contact page" and then the directory could go off and get it from the RDFa

15:13:54 <PhilA2> q+

q+

15:14:27 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: I notice that the update works (I've updated my entry)

Bart van Leeuwen: I notice that the update works (I've updated my entry)

15:15:02 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: I wouldn't have the instructions for getting into the directory on the homepage. You want the directory itself

Bart van Leeuwen: I wouldn't have the instructions for getting into the directory on the homepage. You want the directory itself

15:15:12 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: And would adding more triples make it choke?

Bart van Leeuwen: And would adding more triples make it choke?

15:15:18 <PhilA2> bhyland: Good question

Bernadette Hyland: Good question

15:15:44 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: How about pointing to Open Corporates?

Bart van Leeuwen: How about pointing to Open Corporates?

15:16:17 <PhilA2> q+

q+

15:16:51 <BartvanLeeuwen> ack me

Bart van Leeuwen: ack me

15:17:14 <sandro> and does opencorps provide a URI for each corp, so we can link?

Sandro Hawke: and does opencorps provide a URI for each corp, so we can link?

15:17:17 <HadleyBeeman> ack phil

Hadley Beeman: ack phil

15:17:49 <HadleyBeeman> Yes, sandro. Ex http://opencorporates.com/companies/ae_az/301890

Hadley Beeman: Yes, sandro. Ex http://opencorporates.com/companies/ae_az/301890

15:17:54 <PhilA2> bhyland: I like all these ideas

Bernadette Hyland: I like all these ideas

15:18:29 <sandro>  cool, so what's the property to use to link to those.....   hm.

Sandro Hawke: cool, so what's the property to use to link to those..... hm.

15:18:44 <PhilA2> q+

q+

15:18:50 <PhilA2> ack de

ack de

15:19:03 <PhilA2> DeirdreLee_: I thought it was easy to use, cool

Deirdre Lee: I thought it was easy to use, cool

15:19:16 <PhilA2> DeirdreLee_: So it's not just gov linked data - good

Deirdre Lee: So it's not just gov linked data - good

15:20:17 <PhilA2> DeirdreLee_: Can we provide a URL for an RDF catalogue for our products/projects?

Deirdre Lee: Can we provide a URL for an RDF catalogue for our products/projects?

15:21:10 <PhilA2> DeirdreLee_: You want details of projects etc. We publish that already so it would be good just to point you to it

Deirdre Lee: You want details of projects etc. We publish that already so it would be good just to point you to it

15:21:20 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+

Bart van Leeuwen: q+

15:23:17 <PhilA2> Deirdre and Bernadette continue to discuss various aspects

Deirdre and Bernadette continue to discuss various aspects

15:24:28 <BartvanLeeuwen> q-

Bart van Leeuwen: q-

15:25:39 <PhilA2> bhyland: The generator is just a foaf-o-matic. The directory will re-crawl the data every 6 hours so you can update it locally

Bernadette Hyland: The generator is just a foaf-o-matic. The directory will re-crawl the data every 6 hours so you can update it locally

15:26:27 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: It would be good it it crawled so it would crawl multiple files/sources

Bart van Leeuwen: It would be good it it crawled so it would crawl multiple files/sources

15:28:43 <PhilA2> bhyland: You want to be able to put ttl files across the site?

Bernadette Hyland: You want to be able to put ttl files across the site?

15:29:29 <sandro> or owl:import for something stronger than rdfs:seeAlso

Sandro Hawke: or owl:import for something stronger than rdfs:seeAlso

15:29:34 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: No, if my file references to other files then will it/can it harvest them too?

Bart van Leeuwen: No, if my file references to other files then will it/can it harvest them too?

15:30:26 <HadleyBeeman> q+

Hadley Beeman: q+

15:30:27 <gatemezi> @Sandro: owl:import is still in use out there ? :)

Ghislain Atemezing: @Sandro: owl:import is still in use out there ? :)

15:31:24 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: Querying company type list. Seems a little limited so far

Hadley Beeman: Querying company type list. Seems a little limited so far

15:33:03 <Zakim> -Biplav

Zakim IRC Bot: -Biplav

15:33:29 <PhilA2> ack fadmaa

ack fadmaa

15:33:34 <HadleyBeeman> q-

Hadley Beeman: q-

15:33:48 <PhilA2> fadmaa: I like that I can get the entry specific RDF. Can I get all of it in one go?

Fadi Maali: I like that I can get the entry specific RDF. Can I get all of it in one go?

15:34:11 <fadmaa> ack me

Fadi Maali: ack me

15:34:16 <PhilA2> ack me

ack me

15:34:44 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers

15:36:11 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers

15:37:38 <PhilA2> zakim, mute MakxDekkers

zakim, mute MakxDekkers

15:37:38 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should now be muted

15:38:28 <sandro> +1 folks should publish all the data they want, and let the directory filter!

Sandro Hawke: +1 folks should publish all the data they want, and let the directory filter!

15:38:32 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:38:36 <HadleyBeeman> q+ to start the conversation about what's next for the Community Directory

Hadley Beeman: q+ to start the conversation about what's next for the Community Directory

15:39:07 <sandro> If the data is too big, use SPARQL.

Sandro Hawke: If the data is too big, use SPARQL.

15:40:44 <PhilA2> ack HadleyBeeman

ack HadleyBeeman

15:40:44 <Zakim> HadleyBeeman, you wanted to start the conversation about what's next for the Community Directory

Zakim IRC Bot: HadleyBeeman, you wanted to start the conversation about what's next for the Community Directory

15:41:59 <PhilA2> I did this recently - similar http://philarcher.org/diary/2013/euromap/

I did this recently - similar http://philarcher.org/diary/2013/euromap/

15:43:40 <PhilA2> agreement that the problem is projection, not the implementation

agreement that the problem is projection, not the implementation

15:43:42 <sandro> looking again at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection#Equal-area

Sandro Hawke: looking again at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection#Equal-area

15:43:55 <PhilA2> could make the colours less stark by reducing contrast

could make the colours less stark by reducing contrast

15:44:18 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: You could use OSM with pins rather than colouring the whole country

Hadley Beeman: You could use OSM with pins rather than colouring the whole country

15:44:45 <sandro> size of the pin

Sandro Hawke: size of the pin

15:44:46 <sandro> yes

Sandro Hawke: yes

15:44:50 <Mike_Pendleton> yes

Michael Pendleton: yes

15:44:54 <sandro> size of the a circle.

Sandro Hawke: size of the a circle.

15:44:59 <bhyland> Here is the map I'm projecting: http://usepa.3roundstones.net/rdf/2012/usepa/nuclear-demo/nuclear-map.xhtml?view

Bernadette Hyland: Here is the map I'm projecting: http://usepa.3roundstones.net/rdf/2012/usepa/nuclear-demo/nuclear-map.xhtml?view

15:45:08 <Mike_Pendleton> +1

Michael Pendleton: +1

15:47:19 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: What actually is the map for?

Hadley Beeman: What actually is the map for?

15:47:23 <DaveReynolds> Decision to make is whether you want to use this for navigation or to summarize where things are hot.

Dave Reynolds: Decision to make is whether you want to use this for navigation or to summarize where things are hot.

15:47:35 <PhilA2> bhyland: To show potential decision makers what's available. Location often matters

Bernadette Hyland: To show potential decision makers what's available. Location often matters

15:47:42 <DaveReynolds> For navigation use pins. For density of activity use a heat map.

Dave Reynolds: For navigation use pins. For density of activity use a heat map.

15:49:07 <gatemezi> It seems like http://dir.w3.org/directory/schema# is 404...

Ghislain Atemezing: It seems like http://dir.w3.org/directory/schema# is 404...

15:49:18 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: Government departments like working with people who have experience of their area

Hadley Beeman: Government departments like working with people who have experience of their area

15:52:20 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: You could include social media presence (as org:Organization equivalent class foaf:Organization)

Bart van Leeuwen: You could include social media presence (as org:Organization equivalent class foaf:Organization)

15:53:00 <gatemezi> q+

Ghislain Atemezing: q+

15:53:35 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers

15:54:23 <gatemezi> http://leafletjs.com/examples/quick-start.html

Ghislain Atemezing: http://leafletjs.com/examples/quick-start.html

15:54:33 <PhilA2> gatemezi: You can include locations as well as addresses

Ghislain Atemezing: You can include locations as well as addresses

15:54:37 <HadleyBeeman> http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#sec-glance for the Social Web

Hadley Beeman: http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#sec-glance for the Social Web

15:54:40 <PhilA2> q- gatemezi

q- gatemezi

15:55:04 <PhilA2> gatemezi: You can show the location on a map on the page

Ghislain Atemezing: You can show the location on a map on the page

15:55:21 <PhilA2> gatemezi: Also the dir schema itslef is a 404

Ghislain Atemezing: Also the dir schema itslef is a 404

15:57:48 <MakxDekkers> all, just ran out of credit and got disconnected. planning to start fresh tomorrow at 10 your time. have a nice dinner

Makx Dekkers: all, just ran out of credit and got disconnected. planning to start fresh tomorrow at 10 your time. have a nice dinner

15:58:00 <HadleyBeeman> Bye, Makxdekkers!

Hadley Beeman: Bye, Makxdekkers!

15:58:01 <PhilA2> thanks MakxDekkers - bye

thanks MakxDekkers - bye

15:59:30 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: It's 5 o'clock

Hadley Beeman: It's 5 o'clock

15:59:30 <fadmaa> I also suggest reconsidering the 3D pie charts... they've got awful reputation :)

Fadi Maali: I also suggest reconsidering the 3D pie charts... they've got awful reputation :)

16:03:10 <PhilA> topic: The future of the Community Directory

10. The future of the Community Directory

16:03:11 <HadleyBeeman> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Community_Directory_Timetable

Hadley Beeman: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Community_Directory_Timetable

16:03:50 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We have the idea that the directory needs a new supporting group

Hadley Beeman: We have the idea that the directory needs a new supporting group

16:04:09 <PhilA> bhyland: We're on the way to setting up a Community Group to support it

Bernadette Hyland: We're on the way to setting up a Community Group to support it

16:05:30 <PhilA> PhilA: Questions the long term sustainability of a CG dedicated to this

Phil Archer: Questions the long term sustainability of a CG dedicated to this

16:06:26 <PhilA> sandro: Is it only LD, is it only government? Is it anything vaguely touching on W3C?

Sandro Hawke: Is it only LD, is it only government? Is it anything vaguely touching on W3C?

16:06:36 <PhilA> sandro: If we can slide it that way then it's plenty sexy

Sandro Hawke: If we can slide it that way then it's plenty sexy

16:06:49 <PhilA> sandro: It's a directory of people associated with W3C technology

Sandro Hawke: It's a directory of people associated with W3C technology

16:07:12 <PhilA> q+

q+

16:07:42 <sandro> sandro: How about the CG is:   Building a Decentralized Directory of People/Organizations/Projects Related to W3C Technologies (Starting With Government Linked Data)

Sandro Hawke: How about the CG is: Building a Decentralized Directory of People/Organizations/Projects Related to W3C Technologies (Starting With Government Linked Data) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:08:37 <PhilA> q-

q-

16:10:28 <sandro> +1 at some point flag W3C Members as such.

Sandro Hawke: +1 at some point flag W3C Members as such.

16:10:41 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: Should the directory highlight members?

Bart van Leeuwen: Should the directory highlight members?

16:10:43 <PhilA> +1

+1

16:10:46 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

16:10:50 <HadleyBeeman> +1

Hadley Beeman: +1

16:10:51 <PhilA> agreement on that

agreement on that

16:10:55 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/Member/ACList    and the RDF is somewhere....

Sandro Hawke: https://www.w3.org/Member/ACList and the RDF is somewhere....

16:10:58 <DaveReynolds> 0

Dave Reynolds: 0

16:14:20 <PhilA> bhyland: Aim was to highlight the ecosystem of LD

Bernadette Hyland: Aim was to highlight the ecosystem of LD

16:14:35 <PhilA> ... want 100s of projects etc.

... want 100s of projects etc.

16:15:10 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Are we putting the product ahead of the use case?

Hadley Beeman: Are we putting the product ahead of the use case?

16:15:20 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: It's in the charter, there is a demand for it

Bart van Leeuwen: It's in the charter, there is a demand for it

16:17:00 <PhilA> bhyland: It's about answering people in gov questioning whether this LD thing is actually supported.

Bernadette Hyland: It's about answering people in gov questioning whether this LD thing is actually supported.

16:17:03 <HadleyBeeman> for the government linked data space, yes. But expanding beyond that (to the entire W3C community, however we define that, or everyone who feels connected to the W3C) is very different situation.  Merits some signficant scoping and requirements assessment.

Hadley Beeman: for the government linked data space, yes. But expanding beyond that (to the entire W3C community, however we define that, or everyone who feels connected to the W3C) is very different situation. Merits some signficant scoping and requirements assessment.

16:17:30 <HadleyBeeman> (that was building on "Are we putting the product ahead of the use case?")

Hadley Beeman: (that was building on "Are we putting the product ahead of the use case?")

16:17:56 <PhilA> DeirdreLee_: It's useful for people finding out what other parts of the same organisation are doing, never mind what others are up to

Deirdre Lee: It's useful for people finding out what other parts of the same organisation are doing, never mind what others are up to

16:20:07 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: So what are we going to do with the community directory ahead of the charter end

Hadley Beeman: So what are we going to do with the community directory ahead of the charter end

16:20:41 <PhilA> bhyland: we can set up a CG but if there's a home it could be in that already exists then we can do that

Bernadette Hyland: we can set up a CG but if there's a home it could be in that already exists then we can do that

16:21:41 <PhilA> PhilA: The putative Open Data WG could be a home for it, or yes, a CG

Phil Archer: The putative Open Data WG could be a home for it, or yes, a CG

16:22:20 <PhilA> sandro: I think it would be a poor fit for ODWG. It's a specific thing and needs its own group. Not all open data people will want to support the dir

Sandro Hawke: I think it would be a poor fit for ODWG. It's a specific thing and needs its own group. Not all open data people will want to support the dir

16:23:01 <PhilA> bhyland: We're not going to wait. We're going to set up a CG with 5+ members

Bernadette Hyland: We're not going to wait. We're going to set up a CG with 5+ members

16:23:07 <bhyland> Proposed: Set up a community group with 5 members and plan to move the ongoing support & maintenance to the CG.

PROPOSED: Set up a community group with 5 members and plan to move the ongoing support & maintenance to the CG.

16:23:30 <HadleyBeeman> +1

Hadley Beeman: +1

16:23:32 <bhyland> +1

Bernadette Hyland: +1

16:23:33 <PhilA> +1

+1

16:23:33 <BartvanLeeuwen> +

Bart van Leeuwen: +

16:23:42 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1

16:23:48 <PhilA> RESOLVED Set up a community group with 5 members and plan to move the ongoing support & maintenance to the CG.

RESOLVED Set up a community group with 5 members and plan to move the ongoing support & maintenance to the CG.

16:23:49 <fadmaa> +1

Fadi Maali: +1

16:24:19 <DeirdreLee_> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1

16:24:22 <bhyland> Action: Bernadette to get the W3 Dir-o-matic Community Group

ACTION: Bernadette to get the W3 Dir-o-matic Community Group

16:24:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-114 - Get the W3 Dir-o-matic Community Group [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2013-04-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-114 - Get the W3 dir.w3.org Community Group [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2013-04-18].

16:24:48 <PhilA> sandro: Suggest calling it the dir.w3.org CG

Sandro Hawke: Suggest calling it the dir.w3.org CG

16:25:07 <bhyland> s/Dir-o-matic/dir.w3.org
16:25:38 <sandro> bhyland, that s/// command wont actually change the action, just how the action appears in these minutes.   Messy.

Sandro Hawke: bhyland, that s/// command wont actually change the action, just how the action appears in these minutes. Messy.

16:26:08 <PhilA> topic: Tomorrow's agenda

11. Tomorrow's agenda

16:26:35 <bhyland> We are closing Day #1 with many things done, not the least of which is a working definition of a "dataset", see https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/glossary/index.html#dataset

Bernadette Hyland: We are closing Day #1 with many things done, not the least of which is a working definition of a "dataset", see https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/glossary/index.html#dataset

16:26:36 <DaveReynolds> Don't think ORG will take an hour.

Dave Reynolds: Don't think ORG will take an hour.

16:27:11 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Good news that ORG won't take an hour.  How long will it take?

Hadley Beeman: Good news that ORG won't take an hour. How long will it take?

16:27:24 <HadleyBeeman> ^davereynolds?

Hadley Beeman: ^davereynolds?

16:28:07 <DaveReynolds> Hmm. Mic problem. Was trying to say it is probably 30min but might be surprised by what discussion is sparked.

Dave Reynolds: Hmm. Mic problem. Was trying to say it is probably 30min but might be surprised by what discussion is sparked.

16:28:20 <DaveReynolds> Fine

Dave Reynolds: Fine

16:29:53 <PhilA> bhyland: We should have a tracker review and cleanup

Bernadette Hyland: We should have a tracker review and cleanup

16:30:05 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes

rrsagent, generate minutes

16:30:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-minutes.html PhilA

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-minutes.html PhilA

16:30:49 <sandro> ?

Sandro Hawke: ?

16:31:03 <sandro> so fix the typos?

Sandro Hawke: so fix the typos?

16:32:29 <Zakim> -Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: -Mike_Pendleton

16:32:34 <sandro> PhilA, so are you editing the minutes at all?    because if so our data is all out of sync.

Sandro Hawke: PhilA, so are you editing the minutes at all? because if so our data is all out of sync.

16:33:39 <PhilA> meeting adjourned

meeting adjourned

16:33:51 <DaveReynolds> bye all, have a good evening

Dave Reynolds: bye all, have a good evening

16:34:03 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds

Zakim IRC Bot: -DaveReynolds

16:34:12 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

16:34:14 <bhyland> Bye all, I'll drink a pint of Guiness for you!

Bernadette Hyland: Bye all, I'll drink a pint of Guiness for you!

16:35:36 <bhyland> Dinner at 19.00 at http://www.elephantandcastle.ie/

Bernadette Hyland: Dinner at 19.00 at http://www.elephantandcastle.ie/

17:05:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, GLDMeetingRoom, in T&S_(GLD)3:00AM

(No events recorded for 29 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, GLDMeetingRoom, in T&S_(GLD)3:00AM

17:05:02 <Zakim> T&S_(GLD)3:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: T&S_(GLD)3:00AM has ended

17:05:02 <Zakim> Attendees were +34.63.926.aaaa, MakxDekkers, martinA, DaveReynolds, bhyland, BartvanLeeuwen, cygri, Christophe, PhilA3, HadleyBeeman, Boris, Deirdre, fadmaa, Ghislain, Sandro,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +34.63.926.aaaa, MakxDekkers, martinA, DaveReynolds, bhyland, BartvanLeeuwen, cygri, Christophe, PhilA3, HadleyBeeman, Boris, Deirdre, fadmaa, Ghislain, Sandro,

17:05:02 <Zakim> ... DeirdreLee, cgueret2, gatemezi, PhilA, Mike_Pendleton, GLDMeetingRoom, +91.80.67.84.aabb, Biplav

Zakim IRC Bot: ... DeirdreLee, cgueret2, gatemezi, PhilA, Mike_Pendleton, GLDMeetingRoom, +91.80.67.84.aabb, Biplav



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