Meeting Record

Phil Archer: zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has bhyland, BartvanLeeuwen, cygri, Christophe, PhilA3 ←

Phil Archer: PhilA has changed the topic to: GLD Face to Face meeting day 1, Croke Park Dublin ←

Christophe Gueret: Lots of people saying that big data is just data. Goof talk from Siemens. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Bart van Leeuwen: It was interesting. less tech than I usually go to, more polcy than I'm used to [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Phil Archer: ... lots of stuff about big data but there was a lot about semantics of data ←

Phil Archer: ... lots of talks about linked data and big data in the same project ←

Phil Archer: ... blown away by talk from Daimler - who knew they were using linked data ←

Bernadette Hyland: So good to hear the Daimler CEO coming out and using the term linked data. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Richard Cyganiak: I've only known Croke Park as a sports venue. Weird irish sports get played here. Didn't know about the conference centre [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see martinA, MakxDekkers (muted), GLDMeetingRoom, DaveReynolds ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see boris, cygri, BartvanLeeuwen, RRSAgent, HadleyBeeman, Zakim, PhilA, martinA, MakxDekkers, bhyland, DaveReynolds, sandro, trackbot ←

Hadley Beeman: I only saw some of the presentations. Some of seemed the messages we've been saying and hearing for a while. Shows importance of our work and related work [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Hadley Beeman: Lots of projects were EU funded - lots of projects seemed to be straight translations from one language to another. Lots of machine translation [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Phil Archer: Multilingual issues are more prevalent in EU discussions than the greater LD community has dedicated time & effort to. This doesn't make sense given the depth of multi-lingual expertise that W3C WG's possesses. [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ] ←

Bernadette Hyland: … We determined we could make DCAT available in at least 6 languages by 12noon today. ←

Hadley Beeman: John Sheridan said legislation.gov.uk is about to be launched in Welsh shortly. [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ] ←

Bernadette Hyland: s/legislative.gov.uk/legislation.gov.uk (warning: replacement failed) ←

Deirdre Lee: The feedback I was getting about the networking etc. was positive. Lots of use cases and the like shown [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Deirdre Lee: the EC was behind it so funding wasn't the biggest problem. Other sponsors brought validation to the event [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Phil Archer: ... only the second year but the reputation is growing. Athens in 2014 ←

Bernadette Hyland: It was excellent. I went to a NIST conference a while back - it was free, in Maryland. Bumped into LDP WG, lots of standards bodies [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Phil Archer: ... very academic. Lots of PhDs, more like the Siemens, StatOil talks from EDF ←

Bernadette Hyland: Maybe more tracks are useful at these things but it's also good to get everyone together. Conferences don't always do that [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Bernadette Hyland: Interesting that privacy and security issues are so important here. Not talked about nearly as much in the US [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Hadley Beeman: The Data Protection Directive is an issue - not an American concept [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Phil Archer: ... lots of cases where one project didn't know about what another was doing - when they actually are doing the same thing ←

Bernadette Hyland: Makes me think better about the Community Directory as a poss tool to help that. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Deirdre Lee: On the issue of it being less tech than expected that's useful feedback for next year [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Hadley Beeman: We're now reviewing the semantics of clotted vs whipped cream. ←

Hadley Beeman: And what soda bread is/tastes like. Interesting ramifications of localisation there. ←

Deirdre Lee: Interesting point about non European funding, how to get EU funded and others linking/working together [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Ghislain Atemezing: I thought it was excellent. I didn't get a huge output for myself but I wasn't expecting much. Really enjoyed it [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Richard Cyganiak: We've been told that we are not getting a charter extension as things stand. So we're rushing to get things done in time [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Richard Cyganiak: If going to a 2nd Last Call means that's the last thing we have time for then that affects tech decisions and that's not the right way round [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Bernadette Hyland: +1 because it impacts much of how we proceed today and for next month ←

Phil Archer: for the group to get an extension (here), we have to get everything to CR. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←

Hadley Beeman: … Then, come the end of May, we can be reasonably confident that we can have an extension. ←

Hadley Beeman: …The extra effort that has gone on recently has made a big difference. ←

Hadley Beeman: … What comes after that is a topic for debate (on agenda for tomorrow). What do you want to do next? We in the W3C have been discussing the possibilities. ←

Hadley Beeman: … Conversations were primarily on "is RDF finished"? If so, what impact does that have on our Semantic Web Activity? ←

Bernadette Hyland: … W3C Mgmt having serious discussions regarding maturity of RDF specifications, as well as broader Open Data on the Web ←

Hadley Beeman: … What I've been putting in is that we need to talk about open data, and linked data within it. We also need to talk about data validation (which is why we have the Open Data on the Web workshop) ←

Hadley Beeman: … That workshop will be important in setting the agenda for what comes after this working group's work. ←

Hadley Beeman: … And what working groups will come out of this. A number of people (including DaveReynolds) have been talking about closing the world for RDF. A workshop is being planned in the autumn to explore that. ←

Hadley Beeman: … We need to broaden the scope to talk about open data. Break down the religious wars between JSON and XML, etc. ←

Hadley Beeman: … This group is making very good progress to getting towards finishing its charter. By end of GLD charter, deliverables should be in CR. Most of what we're talking about is already implemented. We shouldn't have too much complicated discussions. Therefore, it's realistic to think that three months after the end of May, we could have the rec-track docs as full recommendations. At the end of that period, the new working group will be in play. ←

Hadley Beeman: … This planning has to go through the W3C planning process, consultations with us, and the membership as well. ←

Phil Archer: Our charter extension will probably be for June, July and August, and will say something along the lines of "this is to get the rec-track documents to the end of the process." [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←

Phil Archer: Perhaps I should say, the key is "are the documents at the stage, by the end of May, that we could reaonsably see them getting to Rec within three months" [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←

Dave Reynolds: So if, say, DCAT isn't quite at CR by 31 May, does that mean we don't get an extension? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Phil Archer: No, it's not that hard and fast. The test is, are documents sufficiently stable that they could realistically be moved to Rec by the end of a 3 month extension [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Richard Cyganiak: So we have to decide whether we want to actively avoid a second last call. How much of an influence should process be? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Richard Cyganiak: I'm not as optimistic as PhilA to get everything to CR by the end of May if we go through a second LC [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Phil Archer: ... some of the comment were quite substantive and might take several weeks to get through ←

Phil Archer: ... I don't want to jeopardise other specs because DCAT isn't quite finished on time. ←

Bernadette Hyland: W3C is reasonable. It won't shut things down that are active and making progress [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Makx Dekkers: point of order: how does this discussion relate to the agenda? Not trying to be pedantic but trying to organise my time today and tomorrow. ←

Bernadette Hyland: The reason Richard asked is because it frames the discussion he's going to be leading soon [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Bernadette Hyland: We have similar issues around the BP doc. Timing affects some decisions on what is left in vs what we can get done [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Hadley Beeman: I'd also add on DCAT that my priority is on a higher quality piece of work than rushing [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Richard Cyganiak: And we'd all rather produce a quality piece of work than something rushed out to a schedule [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Hadley Beeman: There are limits to that of course but in general, plus or minus a little then we're OK [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Richard Cyganiak: We got a number of comments that we need to go through for DCAT and the speed is an important factor [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Hadley Beeman: I'm sure that a conversation on licensing etc. would be interesting but I'm not sure it's a priority for us [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Phil Archer: Hides head in shame when suchkect of URI presistence comments somes up 'cos I keep promising and not delivering [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Hadley Beeman: Something I want to accomplish in the next 2 days is to re-do our timetable planning [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Phil Archer: ... a bash at the timetable page would be good before we finish ←

Hadley Beeman: "Caesar didn't have the option of following some British guys on Twitter, which would have changed the invasion completely." ←

Bernadette Hyland: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/bp/index.html#source-data ←

Bernadette Hyland: The BP document has a summary, list of checklists, diagrams. It then has a section on URI construction ←

... the fact that these recommendation can be done or not makes it different from other W3C recommendation ←

Bernadette Hyland: this also enhances our opportunity to have the BP done as a recommendation within the time frame ←

Phil Archer: this raises the question again of whether the BP should be a recommendation ←

... a recommendation also requires some implementation (independtly two implementations) ←

... checklist is really helpful and having them in a separate document make them hard to find ←

Martín Álvarez: Checklist for WCAG is very useful and it's a Recommendation ←

... it has been done to have a community group note that feels exactly like a W3C recommendation if it is done well ←

Bart van Leeuwen: best practice is hard to be put in a solid way as they need to be updated ←

Richard Cyganiak: agree. With note the process of updating it is more flexible ←

Phil Archer: it is better to try to finish the BP within the charter of this group ←

Deirdre Lee: Google hangout available for visuals. If you want to join, post your email here ←

Bernadette Hyland: taking URI process as an example, it is hard to point to implementations ←

Hadley Beeman: is Linked government data different than linked data in general? ←

... as an existing implementation for the best practices for linked government data ←

Hadley Beeman: or possibly have the scope of Best Practices to cover all linked data? ←

Christophe Gueret: would it be appropriate to refer to existing implementations from within a note? ←

Phil Archer: I don't think this is good especially that implementations are not guaranteed to continue to exist ←

Bernadette Hyland: if we take into account enterprise implementations that won't be hard ←

Boris Villazón-Terrazas: it is hard to prove that the implementation was good and the practices were helpful ←

Hadley Beeman: looks like we have three options: one recommendation, a recommendation and a note or a note? ←

Bernadette Hyland: this leaves two options: a recommendation and a checklist separate as a note ←

Bart van Leeuwen: BP will not contain a MUST and SHOULD kind of recommendations ←

Phil Archer: in the mobile bp document referred to, we required feedback from two different implementers ←

Phil Archer: it might be good to suggest including a "persistent URI" section for the likely new W3C WG dealing with open data in general ←

Sandro Hawke: Step 1 for talking the JSON folks: Don't use the terms "URI" or "IRI". Stick with "URL". :-) ←

Bernadette Hyland: URI policy and implementation is something that I think this WG can and should do ←

Dave Reynolds: I support the suggestion for going for a note containing the URI construction section ←

... and achieving consensus for a rec is risky, we might have the http range discussion opened again ←

Dave Reynolds: Don't think that PhilA's suggestion was to defer, but to build on. ←

Sandro Hawke: is the argument that because URI construction is controversial we shouldn't try to get consensus on it? ←

Dave Reynolds: I didn't mean that having a document on URI construction is a bad idea ←

Dave Reynolds: We're spending months on a revision of the UK policy and we're not nearly done, so this WG isn't ready to produce a REC on URI Construction. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

Bernadette Hyland: I think it is better to have the BP as a comprehensive document and as a WG note ←

Boris Villazón-Terrazas: giving the time restrictions, I also think that putting this as a note is a good idea ←

Sandro Hawke: +1 given that I'm hearing the editor says we can't possibly make it to CR by the end of May, or even the URI Construction part of it. ←

Dave Reynolds: To be clear. Very happy to have URI construction and policy as part of BP note. Having a REC track document that just focusses on that issue will be a challenge in terms of community consensus and timescale. UK experience is that despite several years use of previous UK recommendations, they need substantial update and that achieving consensus on that update is time consuming. ←

Sandro Hawke: DaveReynolds, my question is whether or not we should ATTEMPT to meet that challenge. ←

Sandro Hawke: no, I'm saying "yes" but not in the next 3 weeks just from GLD perspective [ Scribe Assist by Dave Reynolds ] ←

Hadley Beeman: Looking further at URI persistence in the context of open data (especially with regard to JSON and XML) would be useful. Perhaps subsequent working group? At that point, it's out of the realm of Linked Data and RDF… but still worth doing. ←

Sandro Hawke: If we get a 6 month extension, should we try to work on the URI construction recommendations? ←

Bernadette Hyland: we have enough technical recommendations and guidance to put in a section on URI construction in a best practice note ←

Bernadette Hyland: It would be confusing to take URI Construction out of Best Practices, into another document. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

... there are examples of notes which are widely used and even referred to as standards sometimes especially for people not aware of the W3C processes ←

Sandro Hawke: if we have the URI construction doc separate, people will pay more attention ←

Bernadette Hyland: Sandro - We want BP well documented and this is important. ←

Sandro Hawke: This is a major decision for the WG, so it needs to be well-documented and well-justified. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

Sandro Hawke: we need to clearly record the reason for our decision re. working or not URI construction ←

Richard Cyganiak: What we say on URI Policy for Persistence has wide reaching impact… for example LDP and RDF WGs [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ] ←

Richard Cyganiak: What we say on URI construction can have a pretty big impact and affect lots of other WGs. Making those recommendations might also be in-scope for other WGs, like LDP. The RDF WG has views and opinions on these issues. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

Richard Cyganiak: this has broad implications. one might argue that this falls also in the scope of other WG e.g. the RDF WG, the LD platform ←

Bernadette Hyland: the reason this was part of the GLD charter, is because its charter was written before the LDP one ←

Phil Archer: that's the one DaveReynolds tells us that months of work is going into updating. It's referred to by many people. ←

Christophe Gueret: it is important to clarify whether there is something specific with government URIs in particular ←

Richard Cyganiak: some topics in the charter are hard to be addressed exclusively in the government scope ←

Richard Cyganiak: Makes the point that URI construction is not gov-specific (or any other domain). LDP is equally interested, for example [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

... many of the issues are general and the technologies can be applied outside government linked data ←

Bernadette Hyland: it is fine to impact other people and WGs and we can get input from them ←

Richard Cyganiak: my concern is that we might not have the right composition in the WG to address some broad topics ←

Sandro Hawke: q+ to say the Charter was about URI Construction *for governments* specifically. ←

Richard Cyganiak: there is a danger of not having all related people looking into our output and providing feedback ←

Sandro Hawke: " The group will specify how to create good URIs for use in government linked data. " ←

Bernadette Hyland: To quote the charter: URI Construction. The group will specify how to create good URIs for use in government linked data. ←

Richard Cyganiak: if I look at our draft I don't see it specific to the government data ←

Sandro Hawke: bhyland, I think I halted the vote by asking this question -- about 6 months, etc. ←

Hadley Beeman: It sounds to me like we can all agree that URI persistence section of our BP draft isn't finished. I suggest we have other conversations about the nuances of the content. ←

Dave Reynolds: If URI Construction were split out, we'd have to be much more careful and clear about the scope. Meanwhile, the UK stuff is Best Practice suggestions, *not* formal conformance spec stuff. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

Bernadette Hyland: @Dave - so what you just said further suggests the URI Policy guidance should be in a WG Note, not a Rec track doc because it is not "pass / fail" ←

Bart van Leeuwen: It'd be helpful to the Dutch group on this to have URI construction be a separate WG Note [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

Richard Cyganiak: … having a separate document for URI construction would help highlighting it so that national groups don't reinvent things ←

Bernadette Hyland: yes, if it gets into lower details as the UK stuff does then that should be framed as a range of possible approaches rather than a one true way [ Scribe Assist by Dave Reynolds ] ←

Hadley Beeman: I think URI Construction needs a lot more time and attention than we've got. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

Phil Archer: Don't know, in principle maybe, would need to discuss with the sponsors (defra) [ Scribe Assist by Dave Reynolds ] ←

Hadley Beeman: Part of what needs to happen going forward with URIs is to (1) make it more government specific and (2) get more reviews from the WGs that might care about this [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

Bernadette Hyland: @Dave, then I agree with you & in discussion this AM discussion, believe even more so that it should be a WG Note. ←

PROPOSED: Publish Best Practices as as Working Group Note, inclusive of URI Construction guidance and URI Policy for Persistence, and various checklists for vocabs, etc. ←

Sandro Hawke: (We understand this is different from the Charter -- in that the charter says this will be a Recommendation.) ←

Hadley Beeman: Charter: 2.2 Best Practices for Publishing Linked Data www.w3.org/2011/gld/charter ←

Richard Cyganiak: it is hard to vote on whether it should be a checklist or no ←

... the group can vote based on teh content. I think there is no need for the WG to micro-manage this ←

Bernadette Hyland: Discussed that the Best Practices WG Note contain checklist information for procurement, vocab selection, and thoroughly URI Construction and URI Policy for Persistence. This WG Note does not expect to cover in detail Versioning, Stability, Legacy Data. Finally, the LD Cookbook will live as a wiki. ←

... at some point we need some text explaining why we are not working on some parts of the charter ←

Hadley Beeman: The charter commits us to delivering BP recommendations that we have discussed not having. ←

Phil Archer: we need to record that the WG has decided not to include some parts of the charter ←

Hadley Beeman: We planned for sections on Procurement, Versioning, Stability and Legacy Data. WG members who were authorities on those topics have left, and we have further discussed that they are not relevant/feasible to produce to a high level. ←

Bernadette Hyland: they are relevant, but we are only going to produce high-level summaries of them. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←

PROPOSED: Best Practices will only very briefly discuss "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ". Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki. We don't have the time/expertise to do more. ←

PROPOSED: Best Practices will only very briefly discuss "1. Procurement", "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ". Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki. We don't have the time/expertise to do more. ←

PROPOSED: Best Practices will (at most) only very briefly discuss "1. Procurement", "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ". Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki. We don't have the time/expertise to do more. ←

Sandro Hawke: (for DaveReynolds, the addition of "at most" clarifies that we might drop the Procurement section entirely.) ←

Bernadette Hyland: the current section on procurement is not specific to government ←

RESOLVED: Best Practices will (at most) only very briefly discuss "1. Procurement", "4. Versioning", "5.Stability", and "6. Legacy Data. ". Also, "7. Cookbook" will be in a wiki. We don't have the time/expertise to do more. ←

Sandro Hawke: We can change our mind in light of new information -- eg some Awesome new text. ←

Hadley Beeman: And this documents for the world that/why we're not doing these things in our charter. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

Makx Dekkers: please try to keep break times the same. I am planning around that ←

... many of them were expressing their used of the vocabulary and their satisfaction ←

... one thing that needs some discussion, is the question re. the SDMX part relation to the Spec itself ←

Richard Cyganiak: the main issue was regarding the heirarchical code list there was some push back ←

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-59 -- Last Call comment. Frank Cotton on qb:HierarchicalCodeList -- raised ←

Richard Cyganiak: the issue is mainly with hierarchical list which is common in statistical data e.g. geographic areas ←

... it is a frequent requirement to have this hierarchy represented in their data ←

... the issue with this, is the existing domain specific hierarchies that are not represented using SKOS ←

... one possible solution is to require these lists to be represented into SKOS ←

... but this will prohibit people from reusing their already defined data and URIs ←

Christophe Gueret: shouldn't force use of skos for hierarchies, because skos is not enough ←

Richard Cyganiak: 2 issues, first is forcing people to use skos and the second that skos is not rich enough ←

... datacube does not specify that skos has to be used for hierarchy, however is you use skos discovering the hierarchical information is clear ←

... so datacube only 'forces' you to use skos if you are looking for this predictability ←

Hadley Beeman: XKOS at the DDI: https://github.com/linked-statistics/xkos/blob/master/xkos.ttl ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see martinA, GLDMeetingRoom, DaveReynolds, Sandro, MakxDekkers ←

Phil Archer: zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has Ghislain, DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA ←

Hadley Beeman: zakim, GLDMeetingRoom has bhyland, gatemezi, phila, cygri, hadleybeeman, fadmaa, boris, bartvanleeuwen, cgueret2, deirdrelee ←

Zakim IRC Bot: +DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA; got it ←

Zakim IRC Bot: HadleyBeeman was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman ←

Zakim IRC Bot: BartvanLeeuwen was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman ←

Zakim IRC Bot: DeirdreLee was already listed in GLDMeetingRoom, HadleyBeeman ←

... different kinds of hierachies should be represented using different model so that the hieranchical subtleties can be captured ←

Richard Cyganiak: proposed response to Frank 'we understand the concern, but we would like to provide a more flexible approach' ←

Richard Cyganiak: 1. we would like to provide a simple way of using qb, although we understand that this simplification is not always appropriate ←

Richard Cyganiak: 2. it's important to allow re-use of existing identifiers that orgs already have; forcing creation of parallel skos hierarchies not good. ←

Bernadette Hyland: +1 to cygri's summary, always provide a simple way to use QB ←

Richard Cyganiak: 3. even in SKOS there can be multiple hierarchies (e.g. containment and admin reporting) ←

Dave Reynolds: there are genuine reasons for hierarchical representations other than skos ←

Richard Cyganiak: rephrasing… 3. there are genuine reasons for using other relationships than SKOS broader/narrower, for example when there are multiple hierarchies ←

Dave Reynolds: Franck is right that it opens the door to confused representations, but it also opens the door to good representations ←

PROPOSED: We keep the qb:HierarchicalCodeList and DaveReynolds explaining the reasoning for this ←

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 4531 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri ←

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 4531 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA ←

Phil Archer: in the table of LC comments, there is evidence of use. How extensive is this evidence? Is it enough to get out of CR? ←

Richard Cyganiak: there are 2 kinds of implenations we want to consider, one is datasets, the second is consuming applications ←

RESOLVED: We keep the qb:HierarchicalCodeList and DaveReynolds explaining the reasoning for this ←

... there are plenty of datasets that use qb, whose well-formedness can easily be tested based on spec ←

Richard Cyganiak: agree, but, for integration purposes, it is useful to show that there are consuming applications ←

Sandro Hawke: +1 we need a broader discussion of CR criteria. (I'm not very comfortable with ignoring consumers.) ←

Richard Cyganiak: if we wanted to, we could create a small implementation report, reaching out to community using qb ←

Makx Dekkers: have to leave -- lunch is being served. back at 13:30 your time ←

Christophe Gueret: : is there plans in qb to include openannotation for tagging? ←

Richard Cyganiak: this issue comes up often with lots of different vocabularies, for example prov, how to we treat their relations with other vocabularies ←

... better do address this issue generally for a link do any other vocabulary ←

... these are orthogonal issues, so should not be closely tied within the vocab spec ←

... interlinking vocabularies should be loosely coupled so they may be mix and matched ←

Dave Reynolds: vocabularies as modular building blocks… don't artificially tightly couple them [ Scribe Assist by Richard Cyganiak ] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, Mike_Pendleton, DaveReynolds, martinA, MakxDekkers (muted) ←

Zakim IRC Bot: GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, DaveReynolds, martinA, MakxDekkers (muted), Mike_Pendleton ←

Zakim IRC Bot: GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA ←

Fadi plans to highlight the issues raised followed by more detailed discussion. ←

Richard Cyganiak: As a procedural note, editors must be clear on action plan for 1) editorial changes (ed's just do it); 2) requires WG input - will be tough to do in R/T in F2F, suggest raising formal issues in Tracker ←

… Note: Substantial vs. non-substantial changes must be noted. In the case of *substantial* comments it implies we'll go to another LC so everyone has a chance of looking at the entire thing. No one should be surprised when it comes out as a Rec track deliverable. ←

… Modifications that cause changes to conformance are considered substantial. ←

… editorial changes are fixing: typos, improving clarification, and similar level changes — that is all non-substantive ←

ACTION: Fadi to organize a call with people who are able to help resolve open DCAT issues. ←

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-112 - Organize a call with people who are able to help resolve open DCAT issues. [on Fadi Maali - due 2013-04-18]. ←

Possible plan to follow what ADMS or OpenOrg does but requires further discussion. ←

There doesn't seem to be a vocab to describe granularity, so if DCAT offers it, we may have to come up with a new term. ←

Fadi Maali: Due to concerns of conformance, Fadi is concerned about adding "related" to dct because if will break things. ←

Fadi Maali: While many people ask for this, he is concerned about complexity as well as, others specs address this albeit not in RDF. ←

Fadi Maali: Mailing list comments have inferred wider and broader definitions of dataset. ←

ACTION: bhyland to add a dataset definition to the glossary (and cygri to help define it!!) ←

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-113 - Add a dataset definition to the glossary (and cygri to help define it!!) [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2013-04-18]. ←

Phil Archer: A favourite resolution of Dom in such situations is to 'remain silent' ←

Richard Cyganiak: Believes we should avoid defining a "dataset", avoiding controversial edge cases about what a dataset is. ←

… the scope of DCAT is datasets (but we leave the definition of *what* a dataset is to the reader). ←

Ghislain Atemezing: @bhyland: And what will be that *definition* of dataset in a Glossary? ←

Dave Reynolds: Seems to me essence of DCAT is data resources that can be transmitted over a comms network. So code list, model etc is a dataset in that sense a person is not. Means that dcat:Dataset = information resource ←

Makx Dekkers: correction: an API is a distribution (access point) of a dataset ←

Dave Reynolds: So a dcat Dataset is anything for which http-range-14 doesn't bite :) ←

Fadi proposes dataset = "A collection of data, published or curated by a single source, and available for access or download in one or more formats." ←

Revision v1.0 - dataset = "A collection of data, published or curated by a single agent, and available for access or download in one or more formats." ←

Phil Archer: Key stakeholders in greater Open Data on the Web world care about APIs and Access points … there are many ways to access data and we mustn't limit its use. ←

Richard Cyganiak: Again, very concerned about having a precise definition because he doesn't want to exclude constituents who might otherwise use DCAT ... ←

cygri - preferes to talk more about the purpose of DCAT rather than what a "dataset" is. ←

Fadi Maali: Further clarification about properties for a distribution are necessary and will help reduce questions / confusion. ←

Phil Archer: Most people (at least PhilA) look at the diagram to reflect the spec. ←

Dave Reynolds: Discussion seems to be about APIs but Andrea Perego comment is not (just) about APIs, it's about whether dct Dataset includes code lists, video, software etc ←

Richard Cyganiak: I have yet to see a proposed use for DCAT that won't work. Meaning, yes, you can use it for what you're planning but we hadn't previously anticipated your use case, but it would work. ←

Richard Cyganiak: DCAT can be used for a broad range of assets and DCAT is about creating a catalog of them. ←

Dave Reynolds: Andrea essentially asks if DCAT applies to "catalogues of any type of information resources". Jokes on http-range-14 aside, that seems right to me. ←

Richard Cyganiak: "…by a single person, organisation or other kind of agent…" ←

Makx Dekkers: I asked JeniT (wrt her legislation.gov.uk work) re text of law as a dataset. Her response: "I'd more usually think of *all* the legislation making up the dataset, but for sure you could have subsets which could be as small as a single version of a single item of legislation" [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←

Phil Archer: If there someday is a Open Data on the Web WG, would having WSDL for the open data community be helpful? ←

Makx Dekkers: Hadley, The initial answer was clearer: the text of a law is a dataset ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, DaveReynolds, martinA, Mike_Pendleton, MakxDekkers ←

Zakim IRC Bot: GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see TallTed, cgueret, screen1, DeirdreLee, bhyland, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, Screen, BartvanLeeuwen, martinA, Mike_Pendleton, gatemezi, cygri, RRSAgent, Zakim, MakxDekkers, ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GLDMeetingRoom, Sandro, DaveReynolds, martinA, Mike_Pendleton, MakxDekkers ←

Zakim IRC Bot: GLDMeetingRoom has DeirdreLee, bhyland, cgueret2, BartvanLeeuwen, boris, fadmaa, gatemezi, cygri, HadleyBeeman, PhilA ←

Makx Dekkers: It was my definition, as opposed to representing theirs. (Which, it turns out, is a bit more nuanced) [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MakxDekkers (70%), GLDMeetingRoom (74%) ←

Phil Archer: PROPOSAL - That the text be clarified to say that dcat:Distribution is very general. We provide properties defined to describe a particular Distribution type, downloads, and that it is hoped that future work will define extensions for other types of Distribution ←

Richard Cyganiak: Would like to see further editorial content to explain downloadable files in particular. ←

14:17:46 <bhyland> s/possible/possibly

14:18:12 <Zakim> -Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: -Mike_Pendleton ←

14:18:47 <DaveReynolds> Didn't we cover that while going through the slides?

Dave Reynolds: Didn't we cover that while going through the slides? ←

14:18:56 <DaveReynolds> Most went down as "needs discussion".

Dave Reynolds: Most went down as "needs discussion". ←

14:19:12 <DaveReynolds> Probably those probably need to be opened as issues for tracking.

Dave Reynolds: Probably those probably need to be opened as issues for tracking. ←

14:19:45 <Zakim> +Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: +Mike_Pendleton ←

14:19:46 <PhilA> zakim, time speakers at 30 seconds

Phil Archer: zakim, time speakers at 30 seconds ←

14:19:46 <Zakim> 60 seconds is the minimum, PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: 60 seconds is the minimum, PhilA ←

14:19:56 <PhilA> zakim, time speakers at 60 seconds

Phil Archer: zakim, time speakers at 60 seconds ←

14:19:57 <Zakim> ok, PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA ←

14:19:59 <PhilA> ack cygri

Phil Archer: ack cygri ←

14:20:35 <PhilA> fadi: First point needs no discussion

Fadi Maali: First point needs no discussion [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

14:20:42 <PhilA> .. next 3 do

Phil Archer: .. next 3 do ←

14:20:48 <PhilA> zakim, stop timing speakers

Phil Archer: zakim, stop timing speakers ←

14:20:48 <Zakim> ok, PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA ←

14:22:14 <PhilA> List of issues is being updated live. Basic resolutions being recorded as to which ones need further discussion and which are editorial http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments

Phil Archer: List of issues is being updated live. Basic resolutions being recorded as to which ones need further discussion and which are editorial http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments ←

14:22:36 <MakxDekkers> agree with cygri, keep it as it is

Makx Dekkers: agree with cygri, keep it as it is ←

14:25:13 <MakxDekkers> can't follwo

Makx Dekkers: can't follwo ←

14:25:21 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments

Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_LC_comments ←

14:25:27 <MakxDekkers> zakim, unmute me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, unmute me ←

14:25:27 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should no longer be muted ←

14:25:27 <cygri> comment #17

Richard Cyganiak: comment #17 ←

14:25:57 <MakxDekkers> #17 OK

Makx Dekkers: #17 OK ←

14:26:20 <MakxDekkers> #18 OK

Makx Dekkers: #18 OK ←

14:26:24 <PhilA> for HadleyBeeman - you need http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2013Apr/0009.html as evidence that 18 is resolved

Phil Archer: for HadleyBeeman - you need http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2013Apr/0009.html as evidence that 17 is resolved ←

14:26:31 <PhilA> s/18/17/

14:26:39 <MakxDekkers> #19 OK

Makx Dekkers: #19 OK ←

14:27:26 <MakxDekkers> #20 OK

Makx Dekkers: #20 OK ←

14:27:37 <MakxDekkers> #21 OK

Makx Dekkers: #21 OK ←

14:27:45 <MakxDekkers> #22 OK

Makx Dekkers: #22 OK ←

14:29:27 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes

Phil Archer: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

14:29:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-minutes.html PhilA

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-minutes.html PhilA ←

14:29:27 <martinA> I'm sorry, I have to leave.

Martín Álvarez: I'm sorry, I have to leave. ←

14:29:36 <MakxDekkers> zakim, mute me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, mute me ←

14:29:36 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should now be muted ←

14:29:46 <HadleyBeeman> 10 minutes break

Hadley Beeman: 10 minutes break ←

14:29:57 <Zakim> -martinA

Zakim IRC Bot: -martinA ←

14:29:59 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers ←

14:30:05 <MakxDekkers> be back in 10 mins

Makx Dekkers: be back in 10 mins ←

14:30:08 <martinA> See you tomorrow. Enjoy tonight's dinner

Martín Álvarez: See you tomorrow. Enjoy tonight's dinner ←

14:39:52 <bhyland> Agenda+ BP Timetable recap

(No events recorded for 9 minutes)

Agenda+ BP Timetable recap ←

14:41:56 <MakxDekkers> passcode 4531# again invalid

Makx Dekkers: passcode 4531# again invalid ←

14:42:09 <HadleyBeeman> Sorry, makxdekkers

Hadley Beeman: Sorry, makxdekkers ←

14:42:26 <PhilA> zakim, code?

Phil Archer: zakim, code? ←

14:42:26 <Zakim> the conference code is 4531 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 4531 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA ←

14:43:12 <HadleyBeeman> makxdekkers, we're trying to find a way to get you in :)

Hadley Beeman: makxdekkers, we're trying to find a way to get you in :) ←

14:43:29 <sandro> MakxDekkers, I bet it's just slightly-distorted DTMF.   Try longer tones, or trying repeatedly.

Sandro Hawke: MakxDekkers, I bet it's just slightly-distorted DTMF. Try longer tones, or trying repeatedly. ←

14:45:09 <bhyland> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/BP_Timetable#Detailed_timetable_and_checklist

http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/BP_Timetable#Detailed_timetable_and_checklist ←

14:45:49 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers ←

14:46:03 <PhilA> Topic: Community Directory

8. Community Directory

14:46:08 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA

(Scribe set to Phil Archer)

14:46:51 <PhilA> bhyland: Discussed timeline

Bernadette Hyland: Discussed timeline ←

14:47:09 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Updating the timeline itself

Hadley Beeman: Updating the timeline itself ←

14:48:05 <PhilA> bhyland: It should be in good shape by the end of this meeting

Bernadette Hyland: It should be in good shape by the end of this meeting ←

14:48:23 <MakxDekkers> zakim, mute me

Makx Dekkers: zakim, mute me ←

14:48:23 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should now be muted ←

14:48:35 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Suggest we stick to 29th as date of WG approval

Hadley Beeman: Suggest we stick to 29th as date of WG approval ←

14:49:31 <PhilA> sandro: We'll publish a FPWD earliest we can after 29 April and get comments

Sandro Hawke: We'll publish a FPWD earliest we can after 29 April and get comments ←

14:49:55 <PhilA> ... then update the doc and publish that revised version as a Note

... then update the doc and publish that revised version as a Note ←

14:50:25 <Zakim> + +91.80.67.84.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +91.80.67.84.aabb ←

14:50:35 <PhilA> bhyland: Target date would be for 3 weeks for comments -> publication of Note on 21 May

Bernadette Hyland: Target date would be for 3 weeks for comments -> publication of Note on 21 May ←

14:50:55 <PhilA> zakim, aabb is Biplav

zakim, aabb is Biplav ←

14:50:55 <Zakim> +Biplav; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Biplav; got it ←

14:51:09 <sandro> 1.   FPWG    2.  WGNOTE

Sandro Hawke: 1. FPWD 2. WGNOTE ←

14:51:11 <bhyland> See http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/BP_Timetable#Overview

Bernadette Hyland: See http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/BP_Timetable#Overview ←

14:51:29 <PhilA> s/FPWG/FPWD/

14:52:19 <PhilA> sandro: The date to record really is the one for the meeting when the WG will make the resolution

Sandro Hawke: The date to record really is the one for the meeting when the WG will make the resolution ←

14:52:56 <sandro> Hi PhilA

Sandro Hawke: Hi PhilA ←

14:53:18 <Biplav> q+

Biplav Srivastava: q+ ←

14:53:57 <HadleyBeeman> scribe: hadleybeeman

(Scribe set to Hadley Beeman)

14:54:26 <HadleyBeeman> Topic: Community Directory

9. Community Directory

14:55:40 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland:  Previous version of the Community Directory had a login; UX, admin and user headaches resulted.  Over time 75 orgs registered.  Beyond having a triple store and storing the data in RDF, it wasn't a linked data application.  So we took on board the feedback and spent time re-doing it.

Bernadette Hyland: Previous version of the Community Directory had a login; UX, admin and user headaches resulted. Over time 75 orgs registered. Beyond having a triple store and storing the data in RDF, it wasn't a linked data application. So we took on board the feedback and spent time re-doing it. ←

14:55:53 <HadleyBeeman> … Now it's what we have on dir.w3.org

… Now it's what we have on dir.w3.org ←

14:56:03 <PhilA2> scribe: PhilA2

(Scribe set to Phil Archer)

14:56:04 <gatemezi>  ComDir: http://dir.w3.org/directory/pages/about.docbook?view

Ghislain Atemezing: ComDir: http://dir.w3.org/directory/pages/about.docbook?view ←

14:56:30 <PhilA2> bhyland: Talks through the input form for the Directory (or rather the RDF generator, Foaf-o-matic style)

Bernadette Hyland: Talks through the input form for the Directory (or rather the RDF generator, Foaf-o-matic style) ←

14:56:38 <sandro> bug report -- click on one of the contacts on http://dir.w3.org/directory/queries/org-view.rq?view&org=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2013%2F04%2Fgldcomdir.ttl%23org and you get five pop-up windows.  Or I do, at least.  (on firefox.)

Sandro Hawke: bug report -- click on one of the contacts on http://dir.w3.org/directory/queries/org-view.rq?view&org=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2013%2F04%2Fgldcomdir.ttl%23org and you get five pop-up windows. Or I do, at least. (on firefox.) ←

14:57:30 <PhilA2> bhyland: You get your dir.ttl file, publish that on a server somewhere and then tell the directory where to find it

Bernadette Hyland: You get your dir.ttl file, publish that on a server somewhere and then tell the directory where to find it ←

14:57:43 <PhilA2> PhilA2: I don't get those popups (Opera)

Phil Archer: I don't get those popups (Opera) ←

14:58:14 <PhilA2> It's trivial, getting RDF on to people's sites etc.

It's trivial, getting RDF on to people's sites etc. ←

14:58:15 <PhilA2> q+

q+ ←

14:58:19 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+

Bart van Leeuwen: q+ ←

14:58:36 <DaveReynolds> works on Chrome but do get 5 popups on firefox

Dave Reynolds: works on Chrome but do get 5 popups on firefox ←

14:58:39 <DeirdreLee_> q+

Deirdre Lee: q+ ←

14:58:42 <PhilA2> bhyland: Putting the data there could be picked up by search etc.

Bernadette Hyland: Putting the data there could be picked up by search etc. ←

14:59:01 <PhilA2> ack Biplav

ack Biplav ←

14:59:25 <PhilA2> Biplav: First of all thank you for putting the Directory online. I see IBM is there

Biplav Srivastava: First of all thank you for putting the Directory online. I see IBM is there ←

14:59:38 <PhilA2> ... I wonder how a richer description could be created

... I wonder how a richer description could be created ←

15:00:03 <PhilA2> ... IBM's Web site has 130 country and language combinations. You see different things depending where you are

... IBM's Web site has 130 country and language combinations. You see different things depending where you are ←

15:00:14 <PhilA2> ... the Web site is managed by multiple groups

... the Web site is managed by multiple groups ←

15:00:41 <PhilA2> ... the basic entry - I'd like to update it with the homepages of the different regions

... the basic entry - I'd like to update it with the homepages of the different regions ←

15:01:21 <PhilA2> ... the main homepage of ibm.com redirects you. Is there a way to extract out the dependencies from data, if provided, based on its location etc.

... the main homepage of ibm.com redirects you. Is there a way to extract out the dependencies from data, if provided, based on its location etc. ←

15:01:47 <PhilA2> bhyland: I love the idea and I'd be happy for 3 Round Stones to compete against others to implement that for you

Bernadette Hyland: I love the idea and I'd be happy for 3 Round Stones to compete against others to implement that for you ←

15:02:15 <PhilA2> bhyland: But it goes well beyond what the directory is currently designed to do

Bernadette Hyland: But it goes well beyond what the directory is currently designed to do ←

15:02:34 <gatemezi> @biplav: why don't you suggest to describe IBM.com using org with all the sub-units?

Ghislain Atemezing: @biplav: why don't you suggest to describe IBM.com using org with all the sub-units? ←

15:02:55 <sandro> +1 vocab-org

Sandro Hawke: +1 vocab-org ←

15:03:02 <PhilA2> Biplav: Part of managing the Web site is part of each unit's responsibility

Biplav Srivastava: Part of managing the Web site is part of each unit's responsibility ←

15:03:27 <fadmaa> q?

Fadi Maali: q? ←

15:03:29 <PhilA2> ... I was wondering whether we could use ORG etc. and so on to do this, distributed data management etc,

... I was wondering whether we could use ORG etc. and so on to do this, distributed data management etc, ←

15:03:33 <PhilA2> q-

q- ←

15:03:38 <fadmaa> q+

Fadi Maali: q+ ←

15:04:03 <PhilA2> bhyland: So you'd like to see 130 different entries for IBM? That's going to skew the data set

Bernadette Hyland: So you'd like to see 130 different entries for IBM? That's going to skew the data set ←

15:04:58 <sandro> Shouldn't we have 10,000 listings, once things are going well?

Sandro Hawke: Shouldn't we have 10,000 listings, once things are going well? ←

15:05:17 <sandro> I mean, there are over 1,000,000 governments in the world....   :-)

Sandro Hawke: I mean, there are over 1,000,000 governments in the world.... :-) ←

15:05:26 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to Sandro

Hadley Beeman: +1 to Sandro ←

15:05:33 <PhilA2> Biplav: There is no central catalogue for IBM, all the parts are locally managed

Biplav Srivastava: There is no central catalogue for IBM, all the parts are locally managed ←

15:05:39 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q? ←

15:06:58 <PhilA2> Furtehr discussion of Biplav's point about the way IBM's Web estate is managed

Furtehr discussion of Biplav's point about the way IBM's Web estate is managed ←

15:07:38 <PhilA2> ... we want to offer the relevant product catalogue - there is no central data source

... we want to offer the relevant product catalogue - there is no central data source ←

15:07:52 <PhilA2> bhyland: It's well beyond the scope of the community directory

Bernadette Hyland: It's well beyond the scope of the community directory ←

15:08:26 <PhilA2> ... we're just trying to provide a basic directory that can hook up different people working on the same thing

... we're just trying to provide a basic directory that can hook up different people working on the same thing ←

15:09:43 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: You're pointing out that the directory only ever gives one result irrespective of the user's location. It would be great to be able to accommodate that power if we can.

Hadley Beeman: You're pointing out that the directory only ever gives one result irrespective of the user's location. It would be great to be able to accommodate that power if we can. ←

15:09:58 <PhilA2> PhilA2: wonders where GeoSPARQL is the way to go here?

Phil Archer: wonders where GeoSPARQL is the way to go here? ←

15:10:37 <PhilA2> bhyland: We need nice looking, easy to use, easy to understand stuff suitably branded that happens to be based on LD

Bernadette Hyland: We need nice looking, easy to use, easy to understand stuff suitably branded that happens to be based on LD ←

15:11:59 <HadleyBeeman> q?

Hadley Beeman: q? ←

15:12:23 <PhilA2> I just got the popup bug sandro

I just got the popup bug sandro ←

15:12:26 <HadleyBeeman> ack bart

Hadley Beeman: ack bart ←

15:12:40 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen:  Does it only support turtle?

Bart van Leeuwen: Does it only support turtle? ←

15:12:51 <PhilA2> bhyland: I found out today that, for now, yes.

Bernadette Hyland: I found out today that, for now, yes. ←

15:13:04 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: I was thinking about RDFa coming from Drupal for example

Bart van Leeuwen: I was thinking about RDFa coming from Drupal for example ←

15:13:44 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: A Drupal plug in that you could say "here's our company contact page" and then the directory could go off and get it from the RDFa

Bart van Leeuwen: A Drupal plug in that you could say "here's our company contact page" and then the directory could go off and get it from the RDFa ←

15:13:54 <PhilA2> q+

q+ ←

15:14:27 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: I notice that the update works (I've updated my entry)

Bart van Leeuwen: I notice that the update works (I've updated my entry) ←

15:15:02 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: I wouldn't have the instructions for getting into the directory on the homepage. You want the directory itself

Bart van Leeuwen: I wouldn't have the instructions for getting into the directory on the homepage. You want the directory itself ←

15:15:12 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: And would adding more triples make it choke?

Bart van Leeuwen: And would adding more triples make it choke? ←

15:15:18 <PhilA2> bhyland: Good question

Bernadette Hyland: Good question ←

15:15:44 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: How about pointing to Open Corporates?

Bart van Leeuwen: How about pointing to Open Corporates? ←

15:16:17 <PhilA2> q+

q+ ←

15:16:51 <BartvanLeeuwen> ack me

Bart van Leeuwen: ack me ←

15:17:14 <sandro> and does opencorps provide a URI for each corp, so we can link?

Sandro Hawke: and does opencorps provide a URI for each corp, so we can link? ←

15:17:17 <HadleyBeeman> ack phil

Hadley Beeman: ack phil ←

15:17:49 <HadleyBeeman> Yes, sandro. Ex http://opencorporates.com/companies/ae_az/301890

Hadley Beeman: Yes, sandro. Ex http://opencorporates.com/companies/ae_az/301890 ←

15:17:54 <PhilA2> bhyland: I like all these ideas

Bernadette Hyland: I like all these ideas ←

15:18:29 <sandro>  cool, so what's the property to use to link to those.....   hm.

Sandro Hawke: cool, so what's the property to use to link to those..... hm. ←

15:18:44 <PhilA2> q+

q+ ←

15:18:50 <PhilA2> ack de

ack de ←

15:19:03 <PhilA2> DeirdreLee_: I thought it was easy to use, cool

Deirdre Lee: I thought it was easy to use, cool ←

15:19:16 <PhilA2> DeirdreLee_: So it's not just gov linked data - good

Deirdre Lee: So it's not just gov linked data - good ←

15:20:17 <PhilA2> DeirdreLee_: Can we provide a URL for an RDF catalogue for our products/projects?

Deirdre Lee: Can we provide a URL for an RDF catalogue for our products/projects? ←

15:21:10 <PhilA2> DeirdreLee_: You want details of projects etc. We publish that already so it would be good just to point you to it

Deirdre Lee: You want details of projects etc. We publish that already so it would be good just to point you to it ←

15:21:20 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+

Bart van Leeuwen: q+ ←

15:23:17 <PhilA2> Deirdre and Bernadette continue to discuss various aspects

Deirdre and Bernadette continue to discuss various aspects ←

15:24:28 <BartvanLeeuwen> q-

Bart van Leeuwen: q- ←

15:25:39 <PhilA2> bhyland: The generator is just a foaf-o-matic. The directory will re-crawl the data every 6 hours so you can update it locally

Bernadette Hyland: The generator is just a foaf-o-matic. The directory will re-crawl the data every 6 hours so you can update it locally ←

15:26:27 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: It would be good it it crawled so it would crawl multiple files/sources

Bart van Leeuwen: It would be good it it crawled so it would crawl multiple files/sources ←

15:28:43 <PhilA2> bhyland: You want to be able to put ttl files across the site?

Bernadette Hyland: You want to be able to put ttl files across the site? ←

15:29:29 <sandro> or owl:import for something stronger than rdfs:seeAlso

Sandro Hawke: or owl:import for something stronger than rdfs:seeAlso ←

15:29:34 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: No, if my file references to other files then will it/can it harvest them too?

Bart van Leeuwen: No, if my file references to other files then will it/can it harvest them too? ←

15:30:26 <HadleyBeeman> q+

Hadley Beeman: q+ ←

15:30:27 <gatemezi> @Sandro: owl:import is still in use out there ? :)

Ghislain Atemezing: @Sandro: owl:import is still in use out there ? :) ←

15:31:24 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: Querying company type list. Seems a little limited so far

Hadley Beeman: Querying company type list. Seems a little limited so far ←

15:33:03 <Zakim> -Biplav

Zakim IRC Bot: -Biplav ←

15:33:29 <PhilA2> ack fadmaa

ack fadmaa ←

15:33:34 <HadleyBeeman> q-

Hadley Beeman: q- ←

15:33:48 <PhilA2> fadmaa: I like that I can get the entry specific RDF. Can I get all of it in one go?

Fadi Maali: I like that I can get the entry specific RDF. Can I get all of it in one go? ←

15:34:11 <fadmaa> ack me

Fadi Maali: ack me ←

15:34:16 <PhilA2> ack me

ack me ←

15:34:44 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers ←

15:36:11 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers ←

15:37:38 <PhilA2> zakim, mute MakxDekkers

zakim, mute MakxDekkers ←

15:37:38 <Zakim> MakxDekkers should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MakxDekkers should now be muted ←

15:38:28 <sandro> +1 folks should publish all the data they want, and let the directory filter!

Sandro Hawke: +1 folks should publish all the data they want, and let the directory filter! ←

15:38:32 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q? ←

15:38:36 <HadleyBeeman> q+ to start the conversation about what's next for the Community Directory

Hadley Beeman: q+ to start the conversation about what's next for the Community Directory ←

15:39:07 <sandro> If the data is too big, use SPARQL.

Sandro Hawke: If the data is too big, use SPARQL. ←

15:40:44 <PhilA2> ack HadleyBeeman

ack HadleyBeeman ←

15:40:44 <Zakim> HadleyBeeman, you wanted to start the conversation about what's next for the Community Directory

Zakim IRC Bot: HadleyBeeman, you wanted to start the conversation about what's next for the Community Directory ←

15:41:59 <PhilA2> I did this recently - similar http://philarcher.org/diary/2013/euromap/

I did this recently - similar http://philarcher.org/diary/2013/euromap/ ←

15:43:40 <PhilA2> agreement that the problem is projection, not the implementation

agreement that the problem is projection, not the implementation ←

15:43:42 <sandro> looking again at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection#Equal-area

Sandro Hawke: looking again at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection#Equal-area ←

15:43:55 <PhilA2> could make the colours less stark by reducing contrast

could make the colours less stark by reducing contrast ←

15:44:18 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: You could use OSM with pins rather than colouring the whole country

Hadley Beeman: You could use OSM with pins rather than colouring the whole country ←

15:44:45 <sandro> size of the pin

Sandro Hawke: size of the pin ←

15:44:46 <sandro> yes

Sandro Hawke: yes ←

15:44:50 <Mike_Pendleton> yes

Michael Pendleton: yes ←

15:44:54 <sandro> size of the a circle.

Sandro Hawke: size of the a circle. ←

15:44:59 <bhyland> Here is the map I'm projecting: http://usepa.3roundstones.net/rdf/2012/usepa/nuclear-demo/nuclear-map.xhtml?view

Bernadette Hyland: Here is the map I'm projecting: http://usepa.3roundstones.net/rdf/2012/usepa/nuclear-demo/nuclear-map.xhtml?view ←

15:45:08 <Mike_Pendleton> +1

Michael Pendleton: +1 ←

15:47:19 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: What actually is the map for?

Hadley Beeman: What actually is the map for? ←

15:47:23 <DaveReynolds> Decision to make is whether you want to use this for navigation or to summarize where things are hot.

Dave Reynolds: Decision to make is whether you want to use this for navigation or to summarize where things are hot. ←

15:47:35 <PhilA2> bhyland: To show potential decision makers what's available. Location often matters

Bernadette Hyland: To show potential decision makers what's available. Location often matters ←

15:47:42 <DaveReynolds> For navigation use pins. For density of activity use a heat map.

Dave Reynolds: For navigation use pins. For density of activity use a heat map. ←

15:49:07 <gatemezi> It seems like http://dir.w3.org/directory/schema# is 404...

Ghislain Atemezing: It seems like http://dir.w3.org/directory/schema# is 404... ←

15:49:18 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: Government departments like working with people who have experience of their area

Hadley Beeman: Government departments like working with people who have experience of their area ←

15:52:20 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: You could include social media presence (as org:Organization equivalent class foaf:Organization)

Bart van Leeuwen: You could include social media presence (as org:Organization equivalent class foaf:Organization) ←

15:53:00 <gatemezi> q+

Ghislain Atemezing: q+ ←

15:53:35 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers ←

15:54:23 <gatemezi> http://leafletjs.com/examples/quick-start.html

Ghislain Atemezing: http://leafletjs.com/examples/quick-start.html ←

15:54:33 <PhilA2> gatemezi: You can include locations as well as addresses

Ghislain Atemezing: You can include locations as well as addresses ←

15:54:37 <HadleyBeeman> http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#sec-glance for the Social Web

Hadley Beeman: http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#sec-glance for the Social Web ←

15:54:40 <PhilA2> q- gatemezi

q- gatemezi ←

15:55:04 <PhilA2> gatemezi: You can show the location on a map on the page

Ghislain Atemezing: You can show the location on a map on the page ←

15:55:21 <PhilA2> gatemezi: Also the dir schema itslef is a 404

Ghislain Atemezing: Also the dir schema itslef is a 404 ←

15:57:48 <MakxDekkers> all, just ran out of credit and got disconnected. planning to start fresh tomorrow at 10 your time. have a nice dinner

Makx Dekkers: all, just ran out of credit and got disconnected. planning to start fresh tomorrow at 10 your time. have a nice dinner ←

15:58:00 <HadleyBeeman> Bye, Makxdekkers!

Hadley Beeman: Bye, Makxdekkers! ←

15:58:01 <PhilA2> thanks MakxDekkers - bye

thanks MakxDekkers - bye ←

15:59:30 <PhilA2> HadleyBeeman: It's 5 o'clock

Hadley Beeman: It's 5 o'clock ←

15:59:30 <fadmaa> I also suggest reconsidering the 3D pie charts... they've got awful reputation :)

Fadi Maali: I also suggest reconsidering the 3D pie charts... they've got awful reputation :) ←

16:03:10 <PhilA> topic: The future of the Community Directory

10. The future of the Community Directory

16:03:11 <HadleyBeeman> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Community_Directory_Timetable

Hadley Beeman: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Community_Directory_Timetable ←

16:03:50 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We have the idea that the directory needs a new supporting group

Hadley Beeman: We have the idea that the directory needs a new supporting group ←

16:04:09 <PhilA> bhyland: We're on the way to setting up a Community Group to support it

Bernadette Hyland: We're on the way to setting up a Community Group to support it ←

16:05:30 <PhilA> PhilA: Questions the long term sustainability of a CG dedicated to this

Phil Archer: Questions the long term sustainability of a CG dedicated to this ←

16:06:26 <PhilA> sandro: Is it only LD, is it only government? Is it anything vaguely touching on W3C?

Sandro Hawke: Is it only LD, is it only government? Is it anything vaguely touching on W3C? ←

16:06:36 <PhilA> sandro: If we can slide it that way then it's plenty sexy

Sandro Hawke: If we can slide it that way then it's plenty sexy ←

16:06:49 <PhilA> sandro: It's a directory of people associated with W3C technology

Sandro Hawke: It's a directory of people associated with W3C technology ←

16:07:12 <PhilA> q+

q+ ←

16:07:42 <sandro> sandro: How about the CG is:   Building a Decentralized Directory of People/Organizations/Projects Related to W3C Technologies (Starting With Government Linked Data)

Sandro Hawke: How about the CG is: Building a Decentralized Directory of People/Organizations/Projects Related to W3C Technologies (Starting With Government Linked Data) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

16:08:37 <PhilA> q-

q- ←

16:10:28 <sandro> +1 at some point flag W3C Members as such.

Sandro Hawke: +1 at some point flag W3C Members as such. ←

16:10:41 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: Should the directory highlight members?

Bart van Leeuwen: Should the directory highlight members? ←

16:10:43 <PhilA> +1

+1 ←

16:10:46 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1 ←

16:10:50 <HadleyBeeman> +1

Hadley Beeman: +1 ←

16:10:51 <PhilA> agreement on that

agreement on that ←

16:10:55 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/Member/ACList    and the RDF is somewhere....

Sandro Hawke: https://www.w3.org/Member/ACList and the RDF is somewhere.... ←

16:10:58 <DaveReynolds> 0

Dave Reynolds: 0 ←

16:14:20 <PhilA> bhyland: Aim was to highlight the ecosystem of LD

Bernadette Hyland: Aim was to highlight the ecosystem of LD ←

16:14:35 <PhilA> ... want 100s of projects etc.

... want 100s of projects etc. ←

16:15:10 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Are we putting the product ahead of the use case?

Hadley Beeman: Are we putting the product ahead of the use case? ←

16:15:20 <PhilA> BartvanLeeuwen: It's in the charter, there is a demand for it

Bart van Leeuwen: It's in the charter, there is a demand for it ←

16:17:00 <PhilA> bhyland: It's about answering people in gov questioning whether this LD thing is actually supported.

Bernadette Hyland: It's about answering people in gov questioning whether this LD thing is actually supported. ←

16:17:03 <HadleyBeeman> for the government linked data space, yes. But expanding beyond that (to the entire W3C community, however we define that, or everyone who feels connected to the W3C) is very different situation.  Merits some signficant scoping and requirements assessment.

Hadley Beeman: for the government linked data space, yes. But expanding beyond that (to the entire W3C community, however we define that, or everyone who feels connected to the W3C) is very different situation. Merits some signficant scoping and requirements assessment. ←

16:17:30 <HadleyBeeman> (that was building on "Are we putting the product ahead of the use case?")

Hadley Beeman: (that was building on "Are we putting the product ahead of the use case?") ←

16:17:56 <PhilA> DeirdreLee_: It's useful for people finding out what other parts of the same organisation are doing, never mind what others are up to

Deirdre Lee: It's useful for people finding out what other parts of the same organisation are doing, never mind what others are up to ←

16:20:07 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: So what are we going to do with the community directory ahead of the charter end

Hadley Beeman: So what are we going to do with the community directory ahead of the charter end ←

16:20:41 <PhilA> bhyland: we can set up a CG but if there's a home it could be in that already exists then we can do that

Bernadette Hyland: we can set up a CG but if there's a home it could be in that already exists then we can do that ←

16:21:41 <PhilA> PhilA: The putative Open Data WG could be a home for it, or yes, a CG

Phil Archer: The putative Open Data WG could be a home for it, or yes, a CG ←

16:22:20 <PhilA> sandro: I think it would be a poor fit for ODWG. It's a specific thing and needs its own group. Not all open data people will want to support the dir

Sandro Hawke: I think it would be a poor fit for ODWG. It's a specific thing and needs its own group. Not all open data people will want to support the dir ←

16:23:01 <PhilA> bhyland: We're not going to wait. We're going to set up a CG with 5+ members

Bernadette Hyland: We're not going to wait. We're going to set up a CG with 5+ members ←

16:23:07 <bhyland> Proposed: Set up a community group with 5 members and plan to move the ongoing support & maintenance to the CG.

PROPOSED: Set up a community group with 5 members and plan to move the ongoing support & maintenance to the CG. ←

16:23:30 <HadleyBeeman> +1

Hadley Beeman: +1 ←

16:23:32 <bhyland> +1

Bernadette Hyland: +1 ←

16:23:33 <PhilA> +1

+1 ←

16:23:33 <BartvanLeeuwen> +

Bart van Leeuwen: + ←

16:23:42 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

Bart van Leeuwen: +1 ←

16:23:48 <PhilA> RESOLVED Set up a community group with 5 members and plan to move the ongoing support & maintenance to the CG.

RESOLVED Set up a community group with 5 members and plan to move the ongoing support & maintenance to the CG. ←

16:23:49 <fadmaa> +1

Fadi Maali: +1 ←

16:24:19 <DeirdreLee_> +1

Deirdre Lee: +1 ←

16:24:22 <bhyland> Action: Bernadette to get the W3 Dir-o-matic Community Group

ACTION: Bernadette to get the W3 Dir-o-matic Community Group ←

16:24:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-114 - Get the W3 Dir-o-matic Community Group [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2013-04-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-114 - Get the W3 dir.w3.org Community Group [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2013-04-18]. ←

16:24:48 <PhilA> sandro: Suggest calling it the dir.w3.org CG

Sandro Hawke: Suggest calling it the dir.w3.org CG ←

16:25:07 <bhyland> s/Dir-o-matic/dir.w3.org

16:25:38 <sandro> bhyland, that s/// command wont actually change the action, just how the action appears in these minutes.   Messy.

Sandro Hawke: bhyland, that s/// command wont actually change the action, just how the action appears in these minutes. Messy. ←

16:26:08 <PhilA> topic: Tomorrow's agenda

11. Tomorrow's agenda

16:26:35 <bhyland> We are closing Day #1 with many things done, not the least of which is a working definition of a "dataset", see https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/glossary/index.html#dataset

Bernadette Hyland: We are closing Day #1 with many things done, not the least of which is a working definition of a "dataset", see https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/glossary/index.html#dataset ←

16:26:36 <DaveReynolds> Don't think ORG will take an hour.

Dave Reynolds: Don't think ORG will take an hour. ←

16:27:11 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Good news that ORG won't take an hour.  How long will it take?

Hadley Beeman: Good news that ORG won't take an hour. How long will it take? ←

16:27:24 <HadleyBeeman> ^davereynolds?

Hadley Beeman: ^davereynolds? ←

16:28:07 <DaveReynolds> Hmm. Mic problem. Was trying to say it is probably 30min but might be surprised by what discussion is sparked.

Dave Reynolds: Hmm. Mic problem. Was trying to say it is probably 30min but might be surprised by what discussion is sparked. ←

16:28:20 <DaveReynolds> Fine

Dave Reynolds: Fine ←

16:29:53 <PhilA> bhyland: We should have a tracker review and cleanup

Bernadette Hyland: We should have a tracker review and cleanup ←

16:30:05 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes

rrsagent, generate minutes ←

16:30:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-minutes.html PhilA

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-gld-minutes.html PhilA ←

16:30:49 <sandro> ?

Sandro Hawke: ? ←

16:31:03 <sandro> so fix the typos?

Sandro Hawke: so fix the typos? ←

16:32:29 <Zakim> -Mike_Pendleton

Zakim IRC Bot: -Mike_Pendleton ←

16:32:34 <sandro> PhilA, so are you editing the minutes at all?    because if so our data is all out of sync.

Sandro Hawke: PhilA, so are you editing the minutes at all? because if so our data is all out of sync. ←

16:33:39 <PhilA> meeting adjourned

meeting adjourned ←

16:33:51 <DaveReynolds> bye all, have a good evening

Dave Reynolds: bye all, have a good evening ←

16:34:03 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds

Zakim IRC Bot: -DaveReynolds ←

16:34:12 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←

16:34:14 <bhyland> Bye all, I'll drink a pint of Guiness for you!

Bernadette Hyland: Bye all, I'll drink a pint of Guiness for you! ←

16:35:36 <bhyland> Dinner at 19.00 at http://www.elephantandcastle.ie/

Bernadette Hyland: Dinner at 19.00 at http://www.elephantandcastle.ie/ ←

17:05:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, GLDMeetingRoom, in T&S_(GLD)3:00AM

(No events recorded for 29 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, GLDMeetingRoom, in T&S_(GLD)3:00AM ←

17:05:02 <Zakim> T&S_(GLD)3:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: T&S_(GLD)3:00AM has ended ←

17:05:02 <Zakim> Attendees were +34.63.926.aaaa, MakxDekkers, martinA, DaveReynolds, bhyland, BartvanLeeuwen, cygri, Christophe, PhilA3, HadleyBeeman, Boris, Deirdre, fadmaa, Ghislain, Sandro,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +34.63.926.aaaa, MakxDekkers, martinA, DaveReynolds, bhyland, BartvanLeeuwen, cygri, Christophe, PhilA3, HadleyBeeman, Boris, Deirdre, fadmaa, Ghislain, Sandro, ←

17:05:02 <Zakim> ... DeirdreLee, cgueret2, gatemezi, PhilA, Mike_Pendleton, GLDMeetingRoom, +91.80.67.84.aabb, Biplav

Zakim IRC Bot: ... DeirdreLee, cgueret2, gatemezi, PhilA, Mike_Pendleton, GLDMeetingRoom, +91.80.67.84.aabb, Biplav ←

Formatted by CommonScribe

GLD Face to Face meeting Day 1

Minutes of 11 April 2013

1. Quick review of European data Forum

2. Agenda bashing

3. Agenda bashing for today & tomorrow

4. Best Practices

5. Data Cube vocabulary LC feedback review

6. Data Cube

7. DCAT Last Call Comments

8. Community Directory

9. Community Directory

10. The future of the Community Directory

11. Tomorrow's agenda