<trackbot> Date: 06 September 2012

<daveL> Meeting: MLW-lT Phone call 6th September 2012

<Yves_> Scribe: Yves_

<Arle> Hi all: I will be a bit late for the call. Apologies.

<daveL> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Sep/0023.html

Dave: go through the agenda
... Pedro sent a mail about implementation, will cover that in the action items

approve minutes

<daveL> http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html

Dave: minutes from last meeting approved

Test suite development

Dave: anyone had any chance to look at the page?
... probably not. so here is an update

<daveL> http://phaedrus.scss.tcd.ie/its2.0/its-testsuite.html

<scribe> .. new section in the wiki home

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: currently hosted at TDC, but should be moved to W3C at some point
... similar to ITS 1.0 test suite
... each data category has a set of conformance tests touching on each aspect of the data category
... (global, local, linked, etc.)

<daveL> http://phaedrus.scss.tcd.ie/its2.0/expected/translate/xml/Translate1-result.xml

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: each entry has an input file (possibly with external rules) and an output
... the output shows the values of the data category per node 9including attributes)
... Leroy, Dom worked hard on this: they added HTML5 examples, and cases for the 2.0 features
... we should freeze the document in November
... we need to make sure the output format is useable by all implementers

<daveL> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Test_Suite_Development

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: the link above explains the test suite
... we need to add tracking as a table that Dom will add soon
... will be asking people to check the output
... to be sure we have a 'right' golden file.
... We also need to have people committing to generate those output for test conformance
... we need two implementations for each feature
... we will need also a estimated date for the output to be available
... We'll work on getting this done before Prague and have a session on this during the meeting.

Documenting use case implementation

Dave: test cases is what we must do for the W3C recommendation
... but real world implementations have additional, richer functionalities.
... so we need to have show cases, that really demonstrate the features
... we have a few commitements for this from the Web-LT partners

<daveL> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Main_Page#Deliverables.2C_WPs

Dave: see the link to deliverables above
... those show how ITS works in real life scenarios
... We need to record and track those demos/show cases

<daveL> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments#Use_Case_Demonstrations

Dave: We do this in the page above

<daveL> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_Case_Demonstration_Template

Dave: I've put a template for that information. See link above
... For Web-LT partners those pages will be associated to our deliverables.
... Would like to get feedback on this.
... Do everyone get the difference between test suite and show cases.

Des: yes, would be happy to help to provide use cases.

Dave: Would be nice to also use the same terminology across use cases (call the same process with the same term for example)
... This would help also documenting the work packages

Pedro: understand concern about having such use cases
... understand we need something simple and bit bit 'sexy'
... will use your template
... for our show cases. All the technical stuff can be done apart.
... so no problem for us

Dave: good. We did some work with Declan and David too, so we'll provide use cases like that too.
... we need to provide business use cases

Pedro: Note that most demo use open-source tools
... so it's actually usable by others

Dave: agree

Firm up Agenda for Prague Meeting

<daveL> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueSep2012#Agenda

Dave: Link above is the agenda for the Prague meeting
... Two days only
... we need to discuss the data categories, the test suites
... advance the draft. we'll have another draft after Prague
... we would like to have all data categories decided
... work after should be improving the draft, no drastic changes
... everyone there in the morning?

<Ankit> DCU will be there in the morning..

Dave: most people should be there in the morning.

<Des> I'll be arriving 24th

Will arrive the 24th too

Df: looking at test suite, it's mostly processing input files
... what about our case which is processing XLIFF
... should it be considered as XML?

Dave: can we do conformance test with XLIFF? probably not if it was the only option. But may that could be an additional output format(?)
... pros: useful format, save some efforts
... cons: one more format to check
... need also a deterministic way to test XLIFF (to allow comparison)
... this need to be looked at.

Df: some this is something we need to discuss during the meeting

dave: we do have this in the Web-LT plan
... having XLIFF as part of the conformance tests is another story
... our current suite is geared toward same context as ITS 1.0
... ITS 2.0 has different ranges of data categories

<daveL> scribe: daveL

dF: asks Yves how they plan to test

Yves_: plans to provide tests suite output as it is for OKAPI
... for other implementations have many other options, including different inline markup
... for okapi have unit tests included using the test suite

Des: its important that implementation that just use XLIFF need to be tested for conformance

Yves_: agrees
... may be able to develop XLIFF input for tests

dF: i see XLIFF test suite could then add a lot to the test suite

Des: it will be important to show ITS compliance of XLIFF systems

Pedro: for there system they are supporting XLIFF

<Yves_> Scribe: Yves_

Dave: we have several use cases with XLIFF
... maybe way forward could be to take scenario for those and look at possible input/output

dF: Tracking original may be a good way too
... will discuss with LRC developers

<scribe> ACTION: DavidF to generate a sample for this [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - DavidF

<scribe> ACTION: Df to generate a sample for this [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-215 - Generate a sample for this [on David Filip - due 2012-09-13].

Dave: we need a way to show conformance through XLIFF basically.
... back to the agenda
... Morning day 1: look at the data categories
... then test suite and committements
... then afternoon for implementation demos
... Listed in page
... Pedro will also show something

Pedro: Could be nice to have parallel working sessions

for partners of working packages

scribe: maybe could have 1h or 1.5h for this

<Ankit> DCU also hopes to have a demo showing their MaTrEx MT system handling some ITS meta data segments

scribe: would help implementation.

Dave: actually this is in day 2.

<Ankit> yes

Dave: so day 1: also DCU MT demos, and possibly XLIFF round-rtip from David

Phil: also example with RDF

dF: could show our integration. But also maybe extraction in SOLAS project

Dave: even if not all the ITS functionality is there it would help people to see the round-trip.
... and show the platform that support XLIFF, XML, provenance, etc.

dF: we don't like the way the test suite encode the disambiguation. will need to work on this.

Dave: would like to give everyone 30mn
... then we have wrap up for Day 1.
... For day 2: editorial work on the draft
... then editing session and group work, possibly in parallel
... implementer could have more time too.
... afternoon: need to plan how to move the specification forward
... TPAC meeting, and Workshop in March
... we'll need to plan to see how.when to start advertising the specification

dF: Mid-October in LocWorld could be a good place to start 'making noise'
... need to do this before it's frozen

Dave: good point
... essentially need a marketing plan

dF: will have good audience in LocWorld

Dave: running out of time
... let carry on on the mailing list.
... pedro action 162?

Pedro: I sent an example. We can talk about it later
... includes real example for readiness

Dave: we have simalar implementation for readiness with CMIS

Pedro: CMS is one example, other is HTML.

Dave: what about LQP?

Yves: ready, voting attribute added.

<Ankit> :quit