ISSUE-41

Decentralized-extensibility

Decentralized extensibility

State:
OPEN
Product:
HTML Principles/Requirements
Raised by:
Dan Connolly
Opened on:
2008-05-08
Description:
The HTML5 specification does not have a mechanism to allow decentralized parties to create their own languages, typically XML languages, and exchange them in HTML5 text/html serializations.  This would allow languages such as SVG, MathML, FBML and a host of others to be included.  At one point, an editors version of the HTML5 specification contained a subset and reformulation of SVG and MathML.  Tim Berners-Lee described this incorporation of SVG and MathML without namespaces as horrific and the issue raiser [Dave Orchard] completely concurs with the him.  
 
This issue limits the ability of non-HTML5 working groups to define languages as the languages must be "brought into" the HTML5 language.  This dramatically increases the scope of HTML5 and decreases the ability to modularize development of orthogonal languages.  
 
In the end, the problem could result in the text/html serialization rules becoming the standard serialization rules for XML languages, replacing XML itself.  This could occur if every decentralized language has a choice between the XML serialization, the text/html serialization or both.  In many cases, the language may choose the text/html serialization.  
 
This issue was first raised in August 2007 by Sam Ruby in [1] and also raised at the recent W3C AC meeting by Tim Berners-Lee [2]
  
[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Aug/0134.html
[2] http://www.w3.org/2008/Talks/0421-ac-tbl/#(1) (member-only link until Tim publishes in a public way)
Related Actions Items:
Related emails:
  1. Re: toward a schedule of HTML WG issues (from connolly@w3.org on 2008-08-22)
  2. Re: toward a schedule of HTML WG issues (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2008-08-22)
  3. toward a schedule of HTML WG issues (from connolly@w3.org on 2008-08-21)
  4. Re: Extensibility strategies (from rubys@us.ibm.com on 2008-08-05)
  5. Re: Extensibility strategies (from hsivonen@iki.fi on 2008-08-05)
  6. Re: Extensibility strategies, was: Deciding in public (Was: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal) (from rubys@us.ibm.com on 2008-08-04)
  7. Re: Extensibility strategies (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-08-04)
  8. SVG is not MathML (was: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (ISSUE-41, ISSUE-37)) (from schepers@w3.org on 2008-07-31)
  9. RE: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from j_james@mindspring.com on 2008-07-31)
  10. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-30)
  11. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from rubys@us.ibm.com on 2008-07-30)
  12. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-30)
  13. RE: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-30)
  14. RE: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from j_james@mindspring.com on 2008-07-30)
  15. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from codedread@gmail.com on 2008-07-30)
  16. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-30)
  17. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (ISSUE-41, ISSUE-37) (from pjt47@cam.ac.uk on 2008-07-30)
  18. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from rubys@us.ibm.com on 2008-07-30)
  19. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (ISSUE-41, ISSUE-37) (from hsivonen@iki.fi on 2008-07-30)
  20. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (ISSUE-41, ISSUE-37) (from hsivonen@iki.fi on 2008-07-30)
  21. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (ISSUE-41, ISSUE-37) (from hsivonen@iki.fi on 2008-07-30)
  22. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-30)
  23. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-30)
  24. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2008-07-30)
  25. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from codedread@gmail.com on 2008-07-30)
  26. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from codedread@gmail.com on 2008-07-30)
  27. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-30)
  28. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-30)
  29. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from chaals@opera.com on 2008-07-30)
  30. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from schepers@w3.org on 2008-07-29)
  31. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from rubys@us.ibm.com on 2008-07-29)
  32. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-29)
  33. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from rubys@us.ibm.com on 2008-07-29)
  34. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from hsivonen@iki.fi on 2008-07-29)
  35. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from hsivonen@iki.fi on 2008-07-29)
  36. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from rubys@us.ibm.com on 2008-07-29)
  37. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-29)
  38. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from hsivonen@iki.fi on 2008-07-29)
  39. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from rubys@us.ibm.com on 2008-07-29)
  40. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from P.Taylor@Rhul.Ac.Uk on 2008-07-29)
  41. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-29)
  42. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2008-07-29)
  43. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from hsivonen@iki.fi on 2008-07-29)
  44. Re: SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ed@opera.com on 2008-07-28)
  45. SVGWG SVG-in-HTML proposal (Was: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility) (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-24)
  46. Re: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from ed@opera.com on 2008-07-24)
  47. Re: On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2008-07-24)
  48. RE: On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com on 2008-07-23)
  49. Re: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-22)
  50. Re: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from schepers@w3.org on 2008-07-21)
  51. Re: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-07-21)
  52. Re: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from schepers@w3.org on 2008-07-21)
  53. RE: On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com on 2008-07-21)
  54. Re: On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from Smylers@stripey.com on 2008-07-21)
  55. Re: On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from t.broyer@gmail.com on 2008-07-21)
  56. RE: On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com on 2008-07-20)
  57. Re: On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from julian.reschke@gmx.de on 2008-07-18)
  58. Re: On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from rob@robburns.com on 2008-07-17)
  59. Re: On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from peter.krantz@gmail.com on 2008-07-17)
  60. Re: On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from P.Taylor@Rhul.Ac.Uk on 2008-07-17)
  61. Re: On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from t.broyer@gmail.com on 2008-07-17)
  62. On ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com on 2008-07-16)
  63. {minutes} HTML WG issue-tracking telcon 2008-06-26 (from mike@w3.org on 2008-07-09)
  64. {minutes} HTML WG issue-tracking telcon 2008-06-12 (from mike@w3.org on 2008-06-19)
  65. Re: ISSUE-41: Decentralized extensibility (from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-05-23)
  66. Re: ISSUE-41 (Dave Orchard): Decentralized extensibility (from hsivonen@iki.fi on 2008-05-12)
  67. Re: ISSUE-41 (Dave Orchard): Decentralized extensibility (from hsivonen@iki.fi on 2008-05-12)
  68. Re: ISSUE-41 (Dave Orchard): Decentralized extensibility (from rubys@us.ibm.com on 2008-05-11)
  69. Re: ISSUE-41 (Dave Orchard): Decentralized extensibility (from hsivonen@iki.fi on 2008-05-11)
  70. ISSUE-41 (Dave Orchard): Decentralized extensibility (from sysbot+tracker@w3.org on 2008-05-08)

Related notes:

2008-05-23 10:05:59: (Changing this to closed seems to have changed the name of who raised it; not sure what to do about this, David doesn't appear in the list for me.) [Ian Hickson]

2008-06-26 17:04:27: I don't think we can make this design decision so blithely, and the justifications of comparing to MARQUEE, BLINK and LAYER are missing part of the point - the decentralized extensibility would be for app/content builders, not for browser vendors. [Chris Wilson]

Display change log.

Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>, Chris Wilson <cwilso@microsoft.com>, Chairs, Michael(tm) Smith <mike@w3.org>, Staff Contact
Tracker, originally developed by Dean Jackson, is developed and maintained by the Systems Team <w3t-sys@w3.org>.
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