W3C

Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

11 Apr 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Norbert, aphillip, Richard, JcK, aharon, fsasaki
Regrets
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
aphillip

Contents


Agenda

Action Items

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

action-170: richard has ported document to respec

<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-170 Coordinate with richard regarding KLReq.

action-170: and is close to html5
... sent to the Korean guys to fill in the Korean
... and enlisted three of the six authors
... a few questions in document
... need to know if will cover before review
... also whether to wait on korean version
... then will come to group looking for wide review

close ACTION-200

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-200 Remind folks to review ITS item in the winter 388 email for next time (4 April).

close ACTION-202

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-202 Say we're satisfied with storageSize in ITS 2.0.

Info Share

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/2013/06/ebooks/

richard: announced conf on ebooks
... link above
... idea is to get people from diff. languages and scripts
... raise issues in HTML5 and CSS that underlie ebooks
... and prioritize, feed to IG that is proposed
... about ebooks in w3 technology

norbert: plans to crash that party

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/blog/International/2013/04/03/indic-layout-task-force-created/

richard: created an indic layout task force
... had a few people join the list

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/groups/indic-layout/

<scribe> ACTION: richard: link indic TF's home page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-204 - Link indic TF's home page [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-04-18].

HTML longdesc

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/40

richard: read longdesc
... came up with two things
... one is editorial nit
... the other is that "invalid content" can be made available
... suggests that shouldn't be let off
... because it'll become confusing
... and de facto supported and would need stuf like bidi and language and other markup

<aharon> I agree about non-url in longdesc

richard: okay to send?

norbert: first one non-WG?

addison: agree

norbert: second one yes

addison: agree

<scribe> chair: approve

<scribe> ACTION: richard: send longdesc comment to HTML-WG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-205 - Send longdesc comment to HTML-WG [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-04-18].

bidi

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Html-bidi-isolation-new

richard: working on wiki this week
... maybe discuss
... aharon gave me some text to use
... "do we still need isolate embeddings"
... aharon suggesting:

<r12a> Unfortunately, existing bidi pages contain all sorts of bidi cruft that

<r12a> > only works given the old embed semantics (and may not work in modern

<r12a> > versions of Internet Explorer). This does not mean that embed semantics

<r12a> > really are necessary. The desired outcome can still be obtained with

<r12a> > isolate semantics, usually with simpler, clearer markup. Here are a

<r12a> > couple of examples.

richard: been downplaying problem, thinking not that large
... but solution A could break a lot of pages?
... is that not necessarily case?
... question for aharon
... also...
... if change semantics of @dir
... maybe add @isolate that is default on
... and use @isolate=no to turn off

addison: breaks existing pages?

aharon: mentioning as possibility
... not a new idea
... html came up with it
... but in opposite direction
... add @isolate=on to turn on
... need to dispose of idea, must deal with it
... not sure about the question?
... didn't intend to worry you :-)
... IE semantics changed
... is pages depend on this, got broke in IE
... so not so worried about it
... more concerned about different idea
... old embed semantics in some applications or cases
... might be a reason to use them
... wanted to explore
... concluded that it is not true

norbert: embedding semantics were wrong all along?

aharon: no, but pages that depend on them work better with isolate
... browsers no longer interop anyway

norbert: not a problem for anybody?

richard: two exmaples used are not affected on IE

aharon: examples no longer work on IE
... if you load local page, it uses IE7 semantics
... if you load from web
... uses IE9 semantics

richard: some things work better because of IE
... text made is sound like breaking huge number of pages
... maybe some but not desparately bad

aharon: this is the para about bidi cruft?
... try to review that one

richard: includes workarounds there
... <quotes page>

<r12a> Here are a couple of examples of edge cases where authors have put workarounds in place that try to make embedded text behave like isolated text. This bidi cruft only works given the old embed semantics

aharon: will reconsider para

richard: still on track for solution A being preferred
... think it is best
... change semantics of @dir to make isolating

aharon: agre

JcK: agree

<Najib-ma> I'm not hot to change semantic of @dir

richard: means to reply to Najib's email

aharon: I sent a reply, need to refresh memory of that

norbert: last time mostly discussed B
... need to refresh

<r12a> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Mar/0027.html

aharon: once spec changes, FF, Chrome will rapidly update
... and IE is already incompatible and mostly isolates
... so this will improve interop
... for authors
... never explained and use of @dir *usage* doesn't really change
... use of LRM etc.

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Apr/0000.html

richard: gimme a day or so to finish up changes
... aharon to add some text
... will send to list
... suggesting a read-over

<scribe> ACTION: richard: to announce bidi wiki to the member list for review next week with a goal of publishing for wide revew [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-206 - Announce to the member list for review next week with a goal of publishing for wide revew [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-04-18].

aharon: wanted to update on an issue
... bug on html5
... dir=auto
... and human readable attributes
... like @title or @placeholder
... asked for a simple thing
... if element with @dir=auto
... that element's attributes will get direction of auto
... not from element
... and Hixie did in html-next

addison: the default direction of UA
... think that's a bad idea
... make WG comment to say very bad idea?

aharon: don't even understand motivation?

<scribe> ACTION: addison: comment on default direction in UA bug for WG saying "bad idea" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-207 - Comment on default direction in UA bug for WG saying "bad idea" [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-04-18].

review radar

http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar#Document_Shepherds

<scribe> new item: API for Media Resources (shepherd addison)

norbert: saw comments on IME on WebApps

<r12a> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ime-api/raw-file/default/use-cases/Overview.html

norbert: saw tpac discussion but haven't seen anything since
... last change in repo was 3 april

addison: keep an eye out for FPWD

AOB?

richard: should do soon...
... some things we are working on and some things hope to do later
... like to do general status update

addison: seems reasonable
... update a page with stuff in the pipeline

richard: that's more documents than projects

<scribe> ACTION: addison: set up project radar page to track projects we are working on [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-208 - Set up project radar page to track projects we are working on [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-04-18].

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Pipeline

richard: good idea to use pipeline page instead of having a third page

<fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-its20-20130411/#unresolved-issues

felix: mention one issue
... published ITS draft will all issue
... some are open
... removed ruby section
... not finalized, but would like to close by end of april
... please include next week

addison: will add to agenda for next week

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: addison: comment on default direction in UA bug for WG saying "bad idea" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: addison: set up project radar page to track projects we are working on [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: link indic TF's home page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: send longdesc comment to HTML-WG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: to announce bidi wiki to the member list for review next week with a goal of publishing for wide revew [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2013-04-18 15:00:14 $