W3C

- DRAFT -

HTML Weekly Teleconference

09 Jul 2009

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Sam, Matt_May, Masinter, DanC, Murray_Maloney, Julian, +1.218.340.aabb, Lachy, Stevef, Mike, Cynthia_Shelly, Shepazu, Laura
Regrets
Joshue
Chair
Sam
Scribe
DanC

Contents


 

 

<rubys1> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Date: 09 July 2009

<johndrinkwater> I guess I might be ??P5- no mic though..

Convene, take roll, review agenda

ISSUE-32 (table-summary)

<masinter> i suggest calling this a "straw poll" rather than a "vote"?

LMM: i suggest calling this a "straw poll" rather than a "vote"

DanC: that would make it non-binding

LMM: yes, but it would predict the results of a binding vote pretty well

<Laura> +Laura

DanC: there's a possibility that a vote will be avoided consensus?

LMM: but a straw poll would help in any case; it eliminates possibilities that noone supports

<Lachy> I would prefer a straw poll

MM: I have my doubts [about a straw poll]

Laura: we could do a straw poll and then a vote

<masinter> wouldn't need to review "good standing" of wg members who haven't been active

DanC: I think a straw poll is a good idea

<MikeSmith> action-59 due 2009-07-03

<trackbot> ACTION-59 Track progress on edits related to issue-38 style-attr-syntax in section html5/#style0 due date now 2009-07-03

MM: on research... I'm in contact with Jutta Trev. [sp?] at [u. toronto?]; perhaps next week I can give more info on usability studies

<MikeSmith> oops

<MikeSmith> issue-59?

<trackbot> ISSUE-59 -- Should the HTML WG produce a separate document that is a normative language reference and if so what are the requirements -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/59

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-59 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-59 (normative-language-reference)

action-109?

<trackbot> ACTION-109 -- Michael(tm) Smith to hand out work to reviewers of H:TML -- due 2009-06-25 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/109

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-109 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<MikeSmith> action-109 due 2009-07-23

<trackbot> ACTION-109 hand out work to reviewers of H:TML due date now 2009-07-23

<masinter> question about whether document compliance ("authoring requirements") might be better handled here

<MikeSmith> action-110 due 2009-07-23

<trackbot> ACTION-110 Add note to H:TML draft about what's currently missing and planned to be added due date now 2009-07-23

LMM: there was a bugzilla bug and such about authoring requirements...
... whether they belong in the same spec with how-to-build-a-browser...
... so that's something to consider

Mike: not much news on my action; moved them back a couple weeks.

ISSUE-60 (html5-xhtml-namespace)

Sam: I suggest that the recent announcement about the XHTML 2 WG addresses my action

close ACTION-105

<trackbot> ACTION-105 Should arrange a meeting between chairs of HTML WG and XHTML2 WG to ensure there is a plan for coordination of vocabularies to avoid incompatibilities. closed

<Lachy> yes, close this issue

LMM: there may be some follow-up

<Lachy> XHTML 2.0 will end life as a WG NOTE

MM: does this announcement mean XHTLM 2.0 won't be produced?

Sam: I expect it'll become a Note

Julian: if XHTML 2 is published as a Note, which namespace woudl it use?

Lachy: It won't matter, as a Note isn't something people are likely to deploy/implement

MM: I'm a little confused... HTML 5 uses which namespace?
... does W3C have namespace policies?

<Lachy> I suppose someone could take an ACTION to contact the XHTML-WG and ask that their work be published as a NOTE using the previously used 2002/02/xhtml2 (I think) namespace from older working drafts

DanC: yes

MM: is there a missing policy?

DanC: I don't think so; I think what we need re this issue is done; there were 2 WGs specifying the /1999/xhtml namespace and now there's one

<masinter> Murray is still concerned about the continuity of the xhtml namespace

<masinter> I will take an action item in 2 weeks to insure that the versioning discussion at least touches on this

<masinter> OK?

<scribe> ACTION: Larry insure that the versioning discussion at least touches on XHTML 2 interactions with the /1999/xhtml namespace [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-129 - insure that the versioning discussion at least touches on XHTML 2 interactions with the /1999/xhtml namespace [on Larry Masinter - due 2009-07-16].

action-129 due 23 July

<trackbot> ACTION-129 insure that the versioning discussion at least touches on XHTML 2 interactions with the /1999/xhtml namespace due date now 23 July

<masinter> i think there needs to be another action to review any "Note" that comes out about XHTML2 to make sure that it doesn't contain text redefining 1999/xhtml incompatibily

<Lachy> Murray, XHTML5 retains compatibility with existing XHTML 1.0 namespaced documents.

<masinter> this 'issue' was an administrative one, there's likely a technical one too

MM: I'm concerned that if HTML 5 use the /1999/xhtml namespace it'll upset compatibility expectations

Sam: if HTML 5 used a different namespace it would break existing content on the web

ISSUE-63 (origin-req-scope)

<MikeSmith> action-96?

<trackbot> ACTION-96 -- Henri Sivonen to to ensure editor removes Origin header: from spec -- due 2009-07-08 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/96

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-96 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

ISSUE-4 (html-versioning)

LMM: the TAG discussed this in a recent ftf... [see www-tag for minutes]... I expect the document discussed will be revised w.r.t. that discussion...
... my hope was to relate some well-understood principles to the doctype/versioning issue... I'm optimistic

ACTION-108 due 23 July

<trackbot> ACTION-108 Report back on the TAG's work on versioning wrt HTML due date now 23 July

ISSUE-35 (aria-processing)

Cynthia: we put out a WD 8 Jun
... things are on track...
... I have a TF participant from Opera; still hoping for particpation from Apple

acton-114 due 1 Aug

Cynthia: the draft is "aria implementation guide"

<masinter> (re versioning, TAG discussed it at its F2F meeting, http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/06/23-agenda.html, based on document http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-html/versioning-html-20090611.html ). Minutes forthcoming, but update to document based on discussion should be out in 2 weeks

<pimpbot> Title: About http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/06/23-agenda.html (at www.w3.org)

DanC: does the draft have examples, sorta seeds of test cases?

Cynthia: perhaps... it does have some examples

TPAC 2009 admin

Mike: I did it... interested to know if the chairs are OK with it

Sam: OK by me; go ahead

[pointer?]

action-115?

<trackbot> ACTION-115 -- Michael(tm) Smith to set up WBS for HTML WG participants to attend HTML WG f2f during TPAC 2009 -- due 2009-05-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/115

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-115 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<MikeSmith> action-115?

<trackbot> ACTION-115 -- Michael(tm) Smith to set up WBS for HTML WG participants to attend HTML WG f2f during TPAC 2009 -- due 2009-05-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/115

draft seems to be http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/2009-11-f2f/

<MikeSmith> DanC, yep

action-123 due 23 July

<trackbot> ACTION-123 Discuss choice of embedding vcard microdata instead of referencing IETF spec and defining conformance reqs for HTML5 due date now 23 July

URI/URL issue @@

<masinter> action-125?

<trackbot> ACTION-125 -- Julian Reschke to coordinate with LMM and DanC to get an Internet Draft that addresses some HTML 5 href issues -- due 2009-07-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/125

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-125 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Julian: we're organizing a BOF at the next IETF, and Larry is working on updating the IRI spec

Larry: I started from the IRI spec, thinking this is a new protocol element, separate from IRIs and and LEIRIs, but I think this [?] is a change to the mapping from IRI to URI...
... but I think the mapping needs another parameter, i.e. the encoding of the document character set, which defaults to utf-8...
... also, space handling should be tweaked...

(yup, sounds right to me)

Larry: that's the design I have in mind ... I haven't gotten around to soliciting review by email

Julian: hmm... that's not the case in Atom documents... have to be careful about that default

Larry: ah; right... yes.

<Julian> (need to be careful about to which document formats the new encoding consderations apply - HTML5 would, Atom not (?))

ACTION-125 due 1 Aug

<trackbot> ACTION-125 Coordinate with LMM and DanC to get an Internet Draft that addresses some HTML 5 href issues due date now 1 Aug

Overdue actions

ACTION-38 due 30 July

<trackbot> ACTION-38 Chairs to review need for amending charter with Director due date now 30 July

Sam that was pending on the XHTML 2 stuff.

ISSUE-7 video-codecs

<masinter> DanC: two minds, like image -- don't need to spec it, other hand, might be important

LMM: I think the factors affecting the choice of codec are largely outside the control of this WG: perceptions about licensing, quality, etc. ...
... I'm more concerned with the perception that some decision got made when it didn't
... my suggestion is: the issue is still open...
... one idea is a note on the small number of choices and why we haven't chosen
... is it possible to move the <video> tag to a separate document, with its own schedule?

Sam: I'm interested in volunteers

DanC: video is feature #1 in community discussion of HTML 5; separating its schedule would be a challenge

Sam: I'm calling for volunteers to take an active position on this issue; Ian has stated his.
... I note Rob Sayer's start

<scribe> ACTION: Sam review status of video codec positions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-130 - Review status of video codec positions [on Sam Ruby - due 2009-07-16].

action-130 due 30 July

<trackbot> ACTION-130 Review status of video codec positions due date now 30 July

Cynthia: a deadline helps some people

Julian: the diff between April and the current draft is that he took out the "it would be nice..." [requirements] text. The actual text to remove the Theora codec was a year ago or so.
... I'm not sure why the statement of desired codec was removed

<Julian> the text that was removed recently is: http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-20090423/video.html#video-and-audio-codecs-for-video-elements

<pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)

<Julian> Rob's mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jul/0267.html

<pimpbot> Title: proposed audio/video codec text from Rob Sayre on 2009-07-07 (public-html@w3.org from July 2009) (at lists.w3.org)

Doug: didn't Rob S. already take a position?

Sam: I read it as a "what if...?" sort of thing but I'll check

SteveF: I'd like canvas accessibility to be a tracker action

(er... issue)

<Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/AddedElementCanvas

<pimpbot> Title: HTML/AddedElementCanvas - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

issue: canvas accessibility

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-74 - Canvas accessibility ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/74/edit .

issue-74: see also http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/AddedElementCanvas

<trackbot> ISSUE-74 Canvas accessibility notes added

<pimpbot> Title: HTML/AddedElementCanvas - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)

<scribe> ACTION: Stevef report on canvas accessibility [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Stevef

<pimpbot> planet: Which browser has the best support for HTML 5 currently? <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/150577/which-browser-has-the-best-support-for-html-5-currently>

ISSUE-31 (missing-alt)

issue-31?

<trackbot> ISSUE-31 -- What to do when a reasonable text equivalent is unknown/unavailable? -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-31 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

Cynthia: what happened to the change request?

[anybody got a pointer to the change request?]

<Laura> WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text alternatives in HTML 5

<Laura> http://www.w3.org/2009/06/Text-Alternatives-in-HTML5

<pimpbot> Title: WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text alternatives in HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)

<Lachy> Is this the WAI CG mail being discussed? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/0070.html

<pimpbot> Title: WAI-CG Consensus Recommendations on Alternative Text in HTML 5 from Janina Sajka on 2009-06-11 (www-archive@w3.org from June 2009) (at lists.w3.org)

Cynthia: what's the process for getting traction on this?

<Lachy> --> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jun/att-0070/Text-Alternatives-in-HTML5.html

<pimpbot> Title: WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text alternatives in HTML 5 (at lists.w3.org)

Sam: I'll try to clarify by email...
... I'm working with people getting CVS access, helping them produce documents...

<Lachy> It appears that that WAI CG text alternatives document was never sent to the HTML WG, only to www-archive and wai-xtech

Cynthia: the document WAI produced is more of a requirements list

SteveF: I'm interested to write the design part

<Lachy> ... so I'm not surprised the HTMLWG haven't done anything with it

good point, Lachy

<scribe> ACTION: steve draft ALT spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-131 - Draft ALT spec [on Steve Faulkner - due 2009-07-16].

action-131 due 7 Sep

<trackbot> ACTION-131 Draft ALT spec due date now 7 Sep

<Laura> I'll help with it Steve.

ADJOURN.

<scribe> ACTION: Stevef report on canvas accessibility [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Stevef

<scribe> ACTION: Steve report on canvas accessibility [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-132 - Report on canvas accessibility [on Steve Faulkner - due 2009-07-16].

<Stevef> lachy: it was forwarded to the html wg list by shelley powers (i think)

action-132 due 23 July

<trackbot> ACTION-132 Report on canvas accessibility due date now 23 July

<Laura> bye

<Lachy> Stevef, ok. I must have missed it. But for future reference, please make sure the WAI CG actually sends feedback to public-html if they intend us to do something abou tit

<Stevef> forwarded 11th june http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/0391.html

<pimpbot> Title: forwarding: WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text alternatives in HTML 5 from Shelley Powers on 2009-06-11 (public-html@w3.org from June 2009) (at lists.w3.org)

<Stevef> lachy: janina missed putting the html wg on the list, i am sure she meant to as it was directed to the HTML WG

<MikeSmith> jobs

sam, I wonder if your summary actions should be closed; they seem a little misleading

action-114 due 1 Aug

<trackbot> ACTION-114 Report progress on ARIA TF due date now 1 Aug

<pimpbot> planet: What's the proper way to add Facebook Connect and their xmlns to (X)HTML5? <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1105257/whats-the-proper-way-to-add-facebook-connect-and-their-xmlns-to-xhtml5>

<pimpbot> planet: HTML 5 - Early Adoption Where Possible - Good or Bad? <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1016515/html-5-early-adoption-where-possible-good-or-bad>

<MikeSmith> hsivonen: you there?

<pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 09 Jul 2009 (at www.w3.org)

<scribe> chair: Sam

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Larry insure that the versioning discussion at least touches on XHTML 2 interactions with the /1999/xhtml namespace [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Sam review status of video codec positions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: steve draft ALT spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Steve report on canvas accessibility [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Stevef report on canvas accessibility [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Stevef report on canvas accessibility [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html#action05]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2009/07/09 19:17:14 $

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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/an ISSUE/an ACTION/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: DanC
Inferring Scribes: DanC
Default Present: Sam, Matt_May, Masinter, DanC, Murray_Maloney, Julian, +1.218.340.aabb, Lachy, Stevef, Mike, Cynthia_Shelly, Shepazu, Laura
Present: Sam Matt_May Masinter DanC Murray_Maloney Julian +1.218.340.aabb Lachy Stevef Mike Cynthia_Shelly Shepazu Laura
Regrets: Joshue
Found Date: 09 Jul 2009
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2009/07/09-html-wg-minutes.html
People with action items: larry sam steve stevef

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