See also: IRC log
Francois: On Tuesday we had a good discussion, and send an email to IETF TLS Working Group, we are moving forward, but still take time
Bryan: wasn't on that call, I
send a list of comments in response to Tom's comment
... since we decided to look into that in more details
... we need to address the points I raised.
... people need to be aware of that, it is an important topic
Francois: Yes. I re-read your comments before sending the email to the IETF TLS WG to make sure I was not forgetting some crucial point.
... I am not sure if at the end we will end up with more detailed guidelines
... but we have to make sure that we understand the big pictures and the caveats
... before we write down things to the spec
Bryan: just wanted to raise those points
Francois: I don't think it will be ready by the end of f2f meeting, unfortunately
DKA: will add that to agenda, how
much time we should spend on the agenda
... could easily spend a day
Francois: one day too much, half day fantastic
DKA: anyone from Korea?
Abel: little bit activity in the
mailing list
... some people asking how to use but nothing new in the
development
DKA: anything that needs to be
done in the f2f regarding checker
... what time would u like with the checker
Abel: not sure
... HTTPS stuff would be good to discuss
DKA: clarification?
Jo: I think we will be done with this before the f2f but the change we proposed to mobileOK Basic Tests doesn't seem to work for the WSC WG
Francois: re. the final change on HTTPS, we
need to address it ASAP, even though I don't think we can publish it before
the F2F
... Jo do you have time to work on this?
Jo: I will do that tomorrow
Francois: Fantastic
DKA: Regarding Shawn's email to the public list, anything to discuss there
<Jo: Yeliz is looking for feedback from several people, including me, I think
<Yeliz: yes, I addressed all the feedback I received in the latest version
<Jo: my assumption is that when that is done, we're done, right?
<Yeliz: yes.
<Yeliz: I won't be able to attend the F2F meeting.
<Yeliz: The EOWG is happy with this version.
Jo: haven't seen any comment in the mailing list, I think we need to action everybody for that
<DKA> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0001.html
DKA: theme for feedback, free
chocolate
... I will provide the chocolate, it works for 7 years old
Jo: I haven't seen anything
happened
... I believe Phil was redrafting
DKA: I think he is going to be in
town because
... I can't see the result, Francois you need to tell us..
<francois> [Phil is not attending on Monday, and is attending the Semantic Web IG on Tuesday]
<DKA> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0014.html
DKA: can you take us through this current draft
Adam: relatively small
changes
... tackle namely those minor comments
... Added a new section,
... will try to fold in new useful best practices and also some
more that have been emailed to the list
... so that we can also discuss at F2F
Jo: we need to have a stable
draft before F2F
... we need to have the changes before the F2F
Will do it before the beginning of next week
DKA: will read it before the
meeting
... anything else we need to discuss about this document?
... I can think of one more thing, latency section
... change it around, etc
Adam: I think some of the
sections need refactoring
... For example, one Web, not sure what the intend of this
DKA: The intend is ...
Adam: There are issues raised
with respect to Bryan's comments, or may be we want to read it
before
... We got some open issues that Bryan raised, I addressed
those so we can discuss those
... so we can discuss my changes
DKA: why don't we discuss
those
... do you want to introduce them?
<francois> Open issues per product
Adam: can somebody open the issues
<DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/open
<adam> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20081008
Adam: ?
... here is the document
Kai: any easy way of versioning on HTML documents?
<jo> Dom's Diffatron
DKA: I got the list of issues here
<jo> ISSUE-277?
<trackbot> ISSUE-277 -- 3.3.1 Inform user about automatic network access and provide control -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/277
DKA: is it worth going through
these
... ? and we can close the issue
<francois> section 3.1.1
Adam: I separated out the whole
section and added in some more details about what kind of
information can be used to inform the user
... lost all my links
<jo> close ISSUE-277
Adam: I haven't done that -
Issue: 279
... Automatic access, when is the good place to it, I couldn't
think of anything else
... do people have some ideas on this?
<francois> ISSUE-279
<francois> ISSUE-279?
<trackbot> ISSUE-279 -- 4.3.3 Provide Disclosures that are Timely and Accessible -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/279
DKA: add an action to complete that
<jo> ACTION: Bryan to propose text ref ISSUE-279 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-861 - Propose text ref ISSUE-279 [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2008-10-16].
<DKA> ISSUE-278?
<trackbot> ISSUE-278 -- 3.3.2 Inform user about use of PIM information -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/278
<jo> ISSUE-278?
<trackbot> ISSUE-278 -- 3.3.2 Inform user about use of PIM information -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/278
Adam: Thank, kind of works for me
<francois> section 3.3.2
Adam: I added all kinds of things that the user could do to address that
Bryan: When you say PIM are you talking about context server?
Adam: In section 3.3.2 there is a
bulleted list
... I have to go through my notes to check the changes
DKA: Any other issues that we can
close
... ?
Adam: best to stay for f2f, 3.1.1 retains personalisation information... Need to refactor and find another home for that, best to discuss at F2F
<scribe> ACTION: Adam to send email about issues [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-862 - Send email about issues [on Adam Connors - due 2008-10-16].
Bryan: I won't be at F2F
... needs discussion on whole notion of tailoring your
content/application for device
... what my user agent is? how user agents discloses its
identity and capability
... I made some precise comments.
... It is not well received with this group which puzzled me
DKA: Web apps group done a lot of
work...
... both BP1 and BP2 based on the idea that you have
information about the device and you build UI based on that
knowledge
... how you get that device knowledge? maybe that's why we try
to be away from that
Bryan: Other group is working
on..
... This group is working on...
DKA: didn't your ... Browser is a web application, little semantic difference
Bryan: I looked at phone widgets and other widgets, they all disclose information about their identity and capability in the headers
DKA: Maybe I am wrong, but we assumed that you have a device
knowledge
... we have agreed to explore in the document...In BP 2, we
agreed to specify device knowledge you need
Bryan: how to differentiate from one vendor to the other
DKA: talking about adding something to the response header
Bryan: I was referring to the
HTTP request and if you look at XHR, you'll see that the
ability to add on the User-Agent, Accept headers is there
... weak identity
.... you can also tweak the Accept header.
DKA: we need some public
feedback
... we need to document that issue in the draft and seek public
feedback
Jo: I don't see emergency in this, I don't see the use case right now, because web apps talk to their mother server
Bryan: web application...who they
are, what they can do? what they expect
... you have all the capabilities of all those APIs
<DKA> s/wurfl/device atlas/
Adam: Web app on the client need
to know the device to render properly, may be there are use
to
... I haven't see an email to the mailing list, a use case? I
have difficulty understanding the use case
<jo> 4. The XMLHttpRequest Object
<jo> The XMLHttpRequest object can be used by scripts to programmatically connect to their originating server via HTTP.
DKA: the text will be changed
Jo: we can't talk about a
recommendation that does not exist today
... we cannot just guess
DKA: any other comments?
Francois: amending the HTTP User-Agent to identify the Web App could be useful when there is a Content Transformation proxy on the line to tell that it is not intended for browsing, intended to be processed by Web apps, a real use case? don't have a clear opinion
DKA: there might be some
arguments...Need feedback
... it's clear you could do...
... it makes sense to seek for public feedback
Bryan: I can also raise a issue, I can't see how...
DKA: request feedback on this
point
... no feedback...it doesn't mean anything
... need feedback yes or no..
... public discussion...
... there is a new W3C group to..
<francois> ISSUE-247?
<trackbot> ISSUE-247 -- What advices can we offer on the use of geolocation in mobile web applications? -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/247
DKA: in my view, I encourage
everybody to check the charter and possibly join the
group
... we can close the issue
... any other comments?
... may be we do need something in the document
Jo: we don't have to ... in the document
<adam> +1
Jo: we can't have a best practice that relates to a rec that hasn't been written
Adam: just a long list of ...
DKA: lets close this issue
<francois> close ISSUE-247
DKA: are there other issues or actions that people would like to discuss?
<Sangwhan_Moon> ISSUE-276?
<trackbot> ISSUE-276 -- 3.1.1 Retain Personalization Information -- RAISED
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/276
DKA: I like to close action 851
<francois> ACTION-851?
<trackbot> ACTION-851 -- Daniel Appelquist to write to WebApps to see if we could hold a joint meeting during TPAC F2F -- due 2008-10-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/851
<jo> close ACTION-851
<francois> Close ACTION-851
<trackbot> ACTION-851 Write to WebApps to see if we could hold a joint meeting during TPAC F2F closed
<trackbot> ACTION-851 Write to WebApps to see if we could hold a joint meeting during TPAC F2F closed
<jo> close action-839
<trackbot> ACTION-839 Arrange BP 2.0 editorial meeting to fit in with his hectic globe trotting schedule closed
ACTION-839?
<trackbot> ACTION-839 -- Daniel Appelquist to arrange BP 2.0 editorial meeting to fit in with his hectic globe trotting schedule -- due 2008-09-11 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/839
DKA: any other actions that people have completed?
<francois> ACTION-849?
<trackbot> ACTION-849 -- François Daoust to check about missing Korean participants -- due 2008-09-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/849
<francois> close ACTION-849
<trackbot> ACTION-849 Check about missing Korean participants closed
Francois: action 849 can be closed as well
<francois> Close ACTION-856
<trackbot> ACTION-856 Chase WSC WG ref proposed change to mobileOK Basic closed
ACTION-841?
<trackbot> ACTION-841 -- Jo Rabin to review WSC comment and propose new wording -- due 2008-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/841
<jo> close ACTION-841
<trackbot> ACTION-841 Review WSC comment and propose new wording closed
Jo: action 841 could be closed?
<jo> ACTION-851
<jo> ACTION-851?
<trackbot> ACTION-851 -- Daniel Appelquist to write to WebApps to see if we could hold a joint meeting during TPAC F2F -- due 2008-10-02 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/851
ACTION-859?
<trackbot> ACTION-859 -- François Daoust to contact IETF TLS group and advise them of what we are thinking and ask for guidance on what to recommend to Content Provider about detecting the presence of a man-in-the-middle proxy -- due 2008-10-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/859
<jo> ACTION-841?
<trackbot> ACTION-841 -- Jo Rabin to review WSC comment and propose new wording -- due 2008-09-11 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/841
<Kai> We can close 837
ACTION-837?
<trackbot> ACTION-837 -- Kai Scheppe to provide explanatory text for the addendum which will put the document (mobileOK Pro Tests 1) in the correct context and explain to the audience that it is intended to aid content authors in creating still better content. -- due 2008-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/837
<jo> ACTION: Jo to reword following WSC WG feedback on proposed changes to mobileOK Basic [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-863 - Reword following WSC WG feedback on proposed changes to mobileOK Basic [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-10-16].
<francois> Actions pending review
ACTION-792?
<trackbot> ACTION-792 -- Abel Rionda to propose some text on SVG -- due 2008-07-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/792
DKA: we don't have any txt on
SVG
... the text is actually here
<DKA> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0090.html
DKA: we need to think about his, Adam r u aware of this?
<Kai> close action-739
<trackbot> ACTION-739 Summarize (again) discussion on Ajax/XHR and propose some resolutions closed
Adam: probably not
DKA: web developers might want to
SVG, ...working group is working a format to encourage people
use SVG
... what I suggest Adam review the input and then give feedback
to the group
Adam: that sounds good
... will print out and give feedback
DKA: Action on Adam and Bryan
...
... discuss in the next 10 mnutes
... ?
<Kai> close action-793
<trackbot> ACTION-793 Work with Scott to produce proposed text on caching that goes beyond BP 1 closed
DKA: suggest action Adam to
review people and Bryan should also review
... suggest to close the call?
... any F2F logistical issue?
Francois: no
... we will have the polycom on both Monday and Tuesyda
DKA: Bryan can you please let us
know the times you are available
... send your availability to the mailing list
... then we can arrange the agenda to schedule the BP2 time
around that
Bryan: do you know time difference? 11 hours?
DKA: any other items?
... thanks everybody
<nacho> bye everyone
<francois> s/Will do it before the begining of next week/Adam: Will do it before the begining of next week/