W3C

Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

09 Oct 2008

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Francois, rob, adam, DKA, jo, Bryan_Sullivan, Sangwhan_Moon, nacho, brucel, abel, manrique, DavidStorey, yeliz, kai
Regrets
Miguel, SeanP, dom, hgerlach, AlanC, jeffs
Chair
DKA
Scribe
yeliz

Contents


Content Transformation TF

Francois: On Tuesday we had a good discussion, and send an email to IETF TLS Working Group, we are moving forward, but still take time

Bryan: wasn't on that call, I send a list of comments in response to Tom's comment
... since we decided to look into that in more details
... we need to address the points I raised.
... people need to be aware of that, it is an important topic

Francois: Yes. I re-read your comments before sending the email to the IETF TLS WG to make sure I was not forgetting some crucial point.
... I am not sure if at the end we will end up with more detailed guidelines
... but we have to make sure that we understand the big pictures and the caveats
... before we write down things to the spec

Bryan: just wanted to raise those points

Francois: I don't think it will be ready by the end of f2f meeting, unfortunately

DKA: will add that to agenda, how much time we should spend on the agenda
... could easily spend a day

Francois: one day too much, half day fantastic

Korea (if present)

DKA: anyone from Korea?

Checker

Abel: little bit activity in the mailing list
... some people asking how to use but nothing new in the development

DKA: anything that needs to be done in the f2f regarding checker
... what time would u like with the checker

Abel: not sure
... HTTPS stuff would be good to discuss

DKA: clarification?

Jo: I think we will be done with this before the f2f but the change we proposed to mobileOK Basic Tests doesn't seem to work for the WSC WG

Francois: re. the final change on HTTPS, we need to address it ASAP, even though I don't think we can publish it before the F2F
... Jo do you have time to work on this?

Jo: I will do that tomorrow

Francois: Fantastic

Mobile Accessibility

DKA: Regarding Shawn's email to the public list, anything to discuss there

<Jo: Yeliz is looking for feedback from several people, including me, I think

<Yeliz: yes, I addressed all the feedback I received in the latest version

<Jo: my assumption is that when that is done, we're done, right?

<Yeliz: yes.

<Yeliz: I won't be able to attend the F2F meeting.

<Yeliz: The EOWG is happy with this version.

BP 1.5

Jo: haven't seen any comment in the mailing list, I think we need to action everybody for that

<DKA> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0001.html

DKA: theme for feedback, free chocolate
... I will provide the chocolate, it works for 7 years old

mobileOK scheme

Jo: I haven't seen anything happened
... I believe Phil was redrafting

DKA: I think he is going to be in town because
... I can't see the result, Francois you need to tell us..

<francois> [Phil is not attending on Monday, and is attending the Semantic Web IG on Tuesday]

BP 2.0

<DKA> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Oct/0014.html

DKA: can you take us through this current draft

Adam: relatively small changes
... tackle namely those minor comments
... Added a new section,
... will try to fold in new useful best practices and also some more that have been emailed to the list
... so that we can also discuss at F2F

Jo: we need to have a stable draft before F2F
... we need to have the changes before the F2F

Will do it before the beginning of next week

DKA: will read it before the meeting
... anything else we need to discuss about this document?
... I can think of one more thing, latency section
... change it around, etc

Adam: I think some of the sections need refactoring
... For example, one Web, not sure what the intend of this

DKA: The intend is ...

Adam: There are issues raised with respect to Bryan's comments, or may be we want to read it before
... We got some open issues that Bryan raised, I addressed those so we can discuss those
... so we can discuss my changes

DKA: why don't we discuss those
... do you want to introduce them?

<francois> Open issues per product

Adam: can somebody open the issues

<DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/open

<adam> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20081008

Adam: ?
... here is the document

Kai: any easy way of versioning on HTML documents?

<jo> Dom's Diffatron

DKA: I got the list of issues here

ISSUE-277

<jo> ISSUE-277?

<trackbot> ISSUE-277 -- 3.3.1 Inform user about automatic network access and provide control -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/277

DKA: is it worth going through these
... ? and we can close the issue

<francois> section 3.1.1

Adam: I separated out the whole section and added in some more details about what kind of information can be used to inform the user
... lost all my links

<jo> close ISSUE-277

Adam: I haven't done that - Issue: 279
... Automatic access, when is the good place to it, I couldn't think of anything else
... do people have some ideas on this?

ISSUE-279

<francois> ISSUE-279

<francois> ISSUE-279?

<trackbot> ISSUE-279 -- 4.3.3 Provide Disclosures that are Timely and Accessible -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/279

DKA: add an action to complete that

<jo> ACTION: Bryan to propose text ref ISSUE-279 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-861 - Propose text ref ISSUE-279 [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2008-10-16].

ISSUE-278

<DKA> ISSUE-278?

<trackbot> ISSUE-278 -- 3.3.2 Inform user about use of PIM information -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/278

<jo> ISSUE-278?

<trackbot> ISSUE-278 -- 3.3.2 Inform user about use of PIM information -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/278

Adam: Thank, kind of works for me

<francois> section 3.3.2

Adam: I added all kinds of things that the user could do to address that

Bryan: When you say PIM are you talking about context server?

Adam: In section 3.3.2 there is a bulleted list
... I have to go through my notes to check the changes

DKA: Any other issues that we can close
... ?

Adam: best to stay for f2f, 3.1.1 retains personalisation information... Need to refactor and find another home for that, best to discuss at F2F

<scribe> ACTION: Adam to send email about issues [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-862 - Send email about issues [on Adam Connors - due 2008-10-16].

Bryan: I won't be at F2F
... needs discussion on whole notion of tailoring your content/application for device
... what my user agent is? how user agents discloses its identity and capability
... I made some precise comments.
... It is not well received with this group which puzzled me

DKA: Web apps group done a lot of work...
... both BP1 and BP2 based on the idea that you have information about the device and you build UI based on that knowledge
... how you get that device knowledge? maybe that's why we try to be away from that

Bryan: Other group is working on..
... This group is working on...

DKA: didn't your ... Browser is a web application, little semantic difference

Bryan: I looked at phone widgets and other widgets, they all disclose information about their identity and capability in the headers

DKA: Maybe I am wrong, but we assumed that you have a device knowledge
... we have agreed to explore in the document...In BP 2, we agreed to specify device knowledge you need

Bryan: how to differentiate from one vendor to the other

DKA: talking about adding something to the response header

Bryan: I was referring to the HTTP request and if you look at XHR, you'll see that the ability to add on the User-Agent, Accept headers is there
... weak identity
.... you can also tweak the Accept header.

DKA: we need some public feedback
... we need to document that issue in the draft and seek public feedback

Jo: I don't see emergency in this, I don't see the use case right now, because web apps talk to their mother server

Bryan: web application...who they are, what they can do? what they expect
... you have all the capabilities of all those APIs

<DKA> s/wurfl/device atlas/

Adam: Web app on the client need to know the device to render properly, may be there are use to
... I haven't see an email to the mailing list, a use case? I have difficulty understanding the use case

<jo> 4. The XMLHttpRequest Object

<jo> The XMLHttpRequest object can be used by scripts to programmatically connect to their originating server via HTTP.

DKA: the text will be changed

Jo: we can't talk about a recommendation that does not exist today
... we cannot just guess

DKA: any other comments?

Francois: amending the HTTP User-Agent to identify the Web App could be useful when there is a Content Transformation proxy on the line to tell that it is not intended for browsing, intended to be processed by Web apps, a real use case? don't have a clear opinion

DKA: there might be some arguments...Need feedback
... it's clear you could do...
... it makes sense to seek for public feedback

Bryan: I can also raise a issue, I can't see how...

DKA: request feedback on this point
... no feedback...it doesn't mean anything
... need feedback yes or no..
... public discussion...
... there is a new W3C group to..

ISSUE-247

<francois> ISSUE-247?

<trackbot> ISSUE-247 -- What advices can we offer on the use of geolocation in mobile web applications? -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/247

DKA: in my view, I encourage everybody to check the charter and possibly join the group
... we can close the issue
... any other comments?
... may be we do need something in the document

Jo: we don't have to ... in the document

<adam> +1

Jo: we can't have a best practice that relates to a rec that hasn't been written

Adam: just a long list of ...

DKA: lets close this issue

<francois> close ISSUE-247

DKA: are there other issues or actions that people would like to discuss?

<Sangwhan_Moon> ISSUE-276?

<trackbot> ISSUE-276 -- 3.1.1 Retain Personalization Information -- RAISED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/276

Closing actions...

DKA: I like to close action 851

<francois> ACTION-851?

<trackbot> ACTION-851 -- Daniel Appelquist to write to WebApps to see if we could hold a joint meeting during TPAC F2F -- due 2008-10-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/851

<jo> close ACTION-851

<francois> Close ACTION-851

<trackbot> ACTION-851 Write to WebApps to see if we could hold a joint meeting during TPAC F2F closed

<trackbot> ACTION-851 Write to WebApps to see if we could hold a joint meeting during TPAC F2F closed

<jo> close action-839

<trackbot> ACTION-839 Arrange BP 2.0 editorial meeting to fit in with his hectic globe trotting schedule closed

ACTION-839?

<trackbot> ACTION-839 -- Daniel Appelquist to arrange BP 2.0 editorial meeting to fit in with his hectic globe trotting schedule -- due 2008-09-11 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/839

DKA: any other actions that people have completed?

<francois> ACTION-849?

<trackbot> ACTION-849 -- Fran├žois Daoust to check about missing Korean participants -- due 2008-09-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/849

<francois> close ACTION-849

<trackbot> ACTION-849 Check about missing Korean participants closed

Francois: action 849 can be closed as well

<francois> Close ACTION-856

<trackbot> ACTION-856 Chase WSC WG ref proposed change to mobileOK Basic closed

ACTION-841?

<trackbot> ACTION-841 -- Jo Rabin to review WSC comment and propose new wording -- due 2008-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/841

<jo> close ACTION-841

<trackbot> ACTION-841 Review WSC comment and propose new wording closed

Jo: action 841 could be closed?

<jo> ACTION-851

<jo> ACTION-851?

<trackbot> ACTION-851 -- Daniel Appelquist to write to WebApps to see if we could hold a joint meeting during TPAC F2F -- due 2008-10-02 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/851

ACTION-859?

<trackbot> ACTION-859 -- Fran├žois Daoust to contact IETF TLS group and advise them of what we are thinking and ask for guidance on what to recommend to Content Provider about detecting the presence of a man-in-the-middle proxy -- due 2008-10-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/859

<jo> ACTION-841?

<trackbot> ACTION-841 -- Jo Rabin to review WSC comment and propose new wording -- due 2008-09-11 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/841

<Kai> We can close 837

ACTION-837?

<trackbot> ACTION-837 -- Kai Scheppe to provide explanatory text for the addendum which will put the document (mobileOK Pro Tests 1) in the correct context and explain to the audience that it is intended to aid content authors in creating still better content. -- due 2008-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/837

<jo> ACTION: Jo to reword following WSC WG feedback on proposed changes to mobileOK Basic [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-863 - Reword following WSC WG feedback on proposed changes to mobileOK Basic [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-10-16].

<francois> Actions pending review

ACTION-792?

<trackbot> ACTION-792 -- Abel Rionda to propose some text on SVG -- due 2008-07-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/792

DKA: we don't have any txt on SVG
... the text is actually here

<DKA> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0090.html

DKA: we need to think about his, Adam r u aware of this?

<Kai> close action-739

<trackbot> ACTION-739 Summarize (again) discussion on Ajax/XHR and propose some resolutions closed

Adam: probably not

DKA: web developers might want to SVG, ...working group is working a format to encourage people use SVG
... what I suggest Adam review the input and then give feedback to the group

Adam: that sounds good
... will print out and give feedback

DKA: Action on Adam and Bryan ...
... discuss in the next 10 mnutes
... ?

<Kai> close action-793

<trackbot> ACTION-793 Work with Scott to produce proposed text on caching that goes beyond BP 1 closed

DKA: suggest action Adam to review people and Bryan should also review
... suggest to close the call?
... any F2F logistical issue?

Francois: no
... we will have the polycom on both Monday and Tuesyda

DKA: Bryan can you please let us know the times you are available
... send your availability to the mailing list
... then we can arrange the agenda to schedule the BP2 time around that

Bryan: do you know time difference? 11 hours?

DKA: any other items?
... thanks everybody

<nacho> bye everyone

<francois> s/Will do it before the begining of next week/Adam: Will do it before the begining of next week/

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Adam to send email about issues [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Bryan to propose text ref ISSUE-279 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Jo to reword following WSC WG feedback on proposed changes to mobileOK Basic [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-bpwg-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

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