W3C

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Technical Architecture Group Teleconference

30 Aug 2012

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Noah, TimBL, Yves, Jonathan, Larry, Henry
Regrets
Chair
Noah
Scribe
Yves

Contents


approval of minutes

<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/08/23-minutes

RESOLUTION: minutes approved

missing minutes for aug 2

next week, there will be no call

re: f2f, we should be all set, but we don't have an hotel list yet

Publishing and Linking

<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/08/23-minutes

<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/publishingAndLinkingOnTheWeb-2012-08-29.html

Larry: the goal is to have something suitable to be published as a FPWD. There will be some nits

<noah> FWIW: I think the changes to the Note on Silk come close enough to satisfying my concerns, thank you.

would be good to decide publication over email

<Zakim> ht, you wanted to propose a New Orleans vote

Noah: we can have an approval and leave editors fix what needs fixing, then wait a few days for negative reaction on the ML or else publish

<noah> Henry wrote: "Thanks for making the effort, and I'm content with where you ended up,

<noah> modulo a few low-level glitches which I'll signal offline."

<noah> We'll wait for Larry

<noah> "Such sub-systems cannot exercise judgment, even if required to by governance."

comments from Noah: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Aug/0050.html

Larry: the crux is a web content/web page/web document distinction

content is stuff (js, css, image, whatever), page is what you see, document is what allow the page to be seen

<noah> The state of discussion is that everyone's pretty happy, but Larry and Henry both feel that the terminology around Web Page, Web Content, and Web Document isn't entirely in good shape.

ht: if you think the 3-way distinction is difficult to make it work (I like it), you can use only web contant and web page

Noah: do you want more discussion, or is it OK to vote on publication now?

<no objection>

<noah> RESOLUTION: Larry as editor will make revisions as he sees fit, there will be 3 days for objections, and then http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/publishingAndLinkingOnTheWeb-2012-08-29.html will be published as a FPWD

RESOLUTION: Larry as editor will make revisions as he sees fit, there will be 3 days for objections, and then http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/publishingAndLinkingOnTheWeb-2012-08-29.html will be published as a FPWD

<jar> Ack Thinh Nguyen?

Larry +1

<Larry> "will ack Thinh, please suggest wording

<noah> ACTION-732?

<trackbot> ACTION-732 -- Larry Masinter to prepare FPWD on Publishing and Linking -- due 2012-08-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/732

<noah> ACTION-732 - DUE 2012-09-05

<noah> ACTION-732: DUE 2012-09-05

<trackbot> ACTION-732 prepare FPWD on Publishing and Linking notes added

Pending Review Action Items

<noah> ACTION-730?

<trackbot> ACTION-730 -- Jeni Tennison to working with Yves to publish FPWD on Fragids -- due 2012-07-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/730

http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-fragid-best-practices-20120726/

<noah> close ACTION-730

<trackbot> ACTION-730 working with Yves to publish FPWD on Fragids closed

<noah> ACTION-543?

<trackbot> ACTION-543 -- Peter Linss to propose addition to Fragid draft to discuss sem-web use of fragids not grounded in media type -- due 2012-09-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/543

<noah> ACTION-564?

<trackbot> ACTION-564 -- Henry Thompson to track fragid issues in 3023bis, report to TAG and/or communicate with 3023bis editors as appropriate -- due 2012-09-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/564

ht: Larry were you in Vancouver? any mention of 3023bis?

<noah> Luckily, 564 is not due until tomorrow :-)

<noah> I

Larry: no mention of this during the last IETF meeting

<noah> ACTION-732 DUE 2012-09-05

<trackbot> ACTION-732 prepare FPWD on Publishing and Linking due date now 2012-09-05

<Larry> should XMLCore take it on?

<noah> ACTION-564?

<trackbot> ACTION-564 -- Henry Thompson to track fragid issues in 3023bis, report to TAG and/or communicate with 3023bis editors as appropriate -- due 2012-09-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/564

<noah> ACTION-564 Due 2012-09-30

<trackbot> ACTION-564 Track fragid issues in 3023bis, report to TAG and/or communicate with 3023bis editors as appropriate due date now 2012-09-30

<noah> ACTION-635?

<trackbot> ACTION-635 -- Henry Thompson to update product page for Frag IDS and Mime types, to include realistic goals and dates -- due 2012-06-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/635

<noah> ACTION-635 Due 2012-09-11

<trackbot> ACTION-635 Update product page for Frag IDS and Mime types, to include realistic goals and dates due date now 2012-09-11

<noah> ACTION-686?

<trackbot> ACTION-686 -- Robin Berjon to try to find who is in charge of the current browser content sniffing clustermess, and see if there is a way of moving out of the quagmire -- due 2012-05-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/686

Overdue actions

<noah> Robin's comment in the action is:

<noah> The person in charge is Adam Barth and the document is pretty much final. I see little support for changing this.

<noah> Robin Berjon, 7 Jun 2012, 16:24:19

<Larry> I was trying to talk people into turning off sniffing with HTTP 2.0

<Larry> not listed in http://www.w3.org/2012/webapps/charter/Overview.html

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-websec-mime-sniff-03

http://mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org/

<Larry> I think Action 686 should be repoened

<Larry> "https://github.com/abarth/websec/commits/master/drafts/sniff.html last edit Nov 2011

<noah> ACTION-686?

<trackbot> ACTION-686 -- Robin Berjon to try to find who is in charge of the current browser content sniffing clustermess, and see if there is a way of moving out of the quagmire -- due 2012-09-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/686

<Larry> "section 9 on 'fonts' is left 'todo'

<noah> Not sure whether Robin wants to pick this up, but at least it's open now.

<noah> If he doesn't, we'll have to find someone else to carry this forward.

<ht> http://mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org/

in a ML, Adam Barth said the document was now there ^

<Larry> When the document was in the IETF, I raised issues

<noah> http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7239&to=7240

<Larry> none of the issues I raised in the IETF have been addressed

<Larry> changing venue doesn't relieve you of the responsibility of responding to issues raised

<jar> (for the minutes: mimesniff is titled "MIME Sniffing Work in Progress — Last Update 25 November 2011")

<noah> HTML5 has a reference MIMESNIFF which resolves to http://mimesniff.spec.whatwg.org/

<noah> Seems like they'll have to finish it or change the reference.

<Larry> What I suggested to PHilippe in Vancouver is a little more radical

html5 has things like sniffing charset

that mmay be put in a separate document as well (like put all the sniffing parts in separate document(s))

<noah> ACTION-713?

<trackbot> ACTION-713 -- Robin Berjon to incorporate into Privacy document "There are concerns wrt protocols and privacy, there are concerns wrt APIs and privacy. We're working on APIs, IETF are working on protocols, we will collaborate and try to converge at least on terminology going forward" -- due 2012-06-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/713

<noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/apiminimization.html

<noah> Robin is the only one assigned

<noah> ACTION-713 Due 2012-09-13

<trackbot> ACTION-713 Incorporate into Privacy document "There are concerns wrt protocols and privacy, there are concerns wrt APIs and privacy. We're working on APIs, IETF are working on protocols, we will collaborate and try to converge at least on terminology going forward" due date now 2012-09-13

<noah> ACTION-715 Due 2012-09-13

<trackbot> ACTION-715 prepare draft FPWD of some patterns for privacy in APIs, to be reviewed by TAG and published due date now 2012-09-13

<noah> ACTION-685?

<trackbot> ACTION-685 -- Robin Berjon to create a product page proposing the Task Force on Web Security/Privileges/Trust/etc. -- due 2012-08-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/685

<noah> In June Robin said:

<noah> This ought to be revisited once the SysApps WG is chartered. it may be that that is where all of this discussion will take place.

<noah> Robin Berjon, 8 Jun 2012, 08:59:19

<Larry> Still in discussion?

<noah> NM: Yves, do you know about Sysaps?

<noah> Yves: Not sure

<noah> LM: Think it's still under discussion

<Larry> Due to August holidays we have extended this review period to 10 September.

<Larry> Ian Jacobs, Head of W3C Communications

<noah> ACTION-685 Due 2012-09-30

<trackbot> ACTION-685 create a product page proposing the Task Force on Web Security/Privileges/Trust/etc. due date now 2012-09-30

<noah> ACTION-700 Due 2012-11-30

<trackbot> ACTION-700 Send note to tag@ that he will send later to the AB (as himself) proposing the changes to electoral proceedings due date now 2012-11-30

<noah> ACTION-659?

<trackbot> ACTION-659 -- Yves Lafon to track IETF efforts on HTTP 2.0 & SPDY -- due 2012-08-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/659

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sysapps/2012Aug/0001.html

<noah> YL: I think Larry learned more than I, having been at IETF Vancouver.

Larry: I was in Vancouver, and I also discussed with mnot recently
... I can give a report, but I don't see things TAG would work on

<noah> NM: I'm asking if this is a good use of F2F time?

we could invite Mark or someone else to talk about progress

<noah> LM: Maybe 30 mins max on SPDY HTTP 2.0 at F2F

<Larry> i wouldn't recommend more than 30 minutes for an update & discussion

<noah> ACTION-659?

<trackbot> ACTION-659 -- Yves Lafon to track IETF efforts on HTTP 2.0 & SPDY -- due 2012-08-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/659

<noah> ACTION-659 Due 2013-01-01

<trackbot> ACTION-659 Track IETF efforts on HTTP 2.0 & SPDY due date now 2013-01-01

<noah> ACTION: Larry to prepare for 30 minute report on HTTP 2.0/SPDY at October 2012 F2F - Due 2012-9-28 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-733 - prepare for 30 minute report on HTTP 2.0/SPDY at October 2012 F2F [on Larry Masinter - due 2012-09-28].

<Larry> my big concern is taht there is a lot of disagreement over what "faster" means

<ht> We certainly made a strong push wrt measurable claims of 'improvement' and 'speed-up' wrt EXI. . .

<noah> ACTION-683?

<trackbot> ACTION-683 -- Yves Lafon to figure out who might be a good choice to present Hybi (and as appropriate WebSocket protocols) to the TAG -- due 2012-04-24 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/683

<noah> ACTION-683 Due 2012-09-11

<trackbot> ACTION-683 Figure out who might be a good choice to present Hybi (and as appropriate WebSocket protocols) to the TAG due date now 2012-09-11

<noah> NM: Please tell me by mid-sept what we need for F2F agenda.

<noah> ACTION-617?

<trackbot> ACTION-617 -- Yves Lafon to work with Noah to take http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ off the Rec track -- due 2012-06-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/617

<noah> ACTION-617 Due 2012-10-15

<trackbot> ACTION-617 Work with Noah to take http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ off the Rec track due date now 2012-10-15

<noah> YL: Was wondering whether to put note, rescind

<noah> ACTION-711?

<trackbot> ACTION-711 -- Peter Linss to report on CSS WG plans for documenting policies relating to deployment and withdrawal of vendor-prefixed identifiers -- due 2012-08-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/711

<Larry> +1 to talk about this

<noah> NM: I'm inclined to discuss at F2F. What do you all think?

<Larry> i haven't given up on the extensibility work, just put it off

<noah> ACTION: Noah to schedule discussion of vendor prefixes (ACTION-711) at F2F - Due 2012-09-20 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-734 - schedule discussion of vendor prefixes (ACTION-711) at F2F [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2012-09-20].

<noah> ACTION-711 Due 2012-09-11

<trackbot> ACTION-711 report on CSS WG plans for documenting policies relating to deployment and withdrawal of vendor-prefixed identifiers due date now 2012-09-11

<noah> ACTION-606?

<trackbot> ACTION-606 -- Peter Linss to invite I18N and other concerned groups to provide written technical input as prep to discussion with the TAG regarding unicode normalization -- due 2012-06-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/606

<noah> ACTION-606 Due 2012-10-31

<trackbot> ACTION-606 Invite I18N and other concerned groups to provide written technical input as prep to discussion with the TAG regarding unicode normalization due date now 2012-10-31

<noah> ACTION-718

<noah> ACTION-718?

<trackbot> ACTION-718 -- Ashok Malhotra to propose goals and success critera for TAG work on architectural issues relating to storage sync, linked data, etc. -- due 2012-08-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/718

<noah> ACTION-718 Due 2012-09-11

<trackbot> ACTION-718 Propose goals and success critera for TAG work on architectural issues relating to storage sync, linked data, etc. due date now 2012-09-11

<noah> ACTION-714?

<trackbot> ACTION-714 -- Noah Mendelsohn to communicate that tThe TAG thinks the W3C should have a working group working on Privacy, with scope to include the area covered by the "Some Patterns..." document currently under development in the TAG -- due 2012-06-19 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/714

<noah> ACTION-714 Due 2012-09-11

<trackbot> ACTION-714 Communicate that tThe TAG thinks the W3C should have a working group working on Privacy, with scope to include the area covered by the "Some Patterns..." document currently under development in the TAG due date now 2012-09-11

<noah> ACTION-695?

<trackbot> ACTION-695 -- Jonathan Rees to check with Thomas Roessler on whether security review of CORS is coming up in W3C/IETF liaison -- due 2012-08-14 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/695

<noah> JAR: I think Thomas think's it's getting good review

<Larry> I was trying to take on the bigger picture in "governanceFramework"

<noah> From JAR's notes in the ACTION:

<noah> Thomas pointed me at these reviews:

<noah> Mark Nottingham http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009AprJun/0643.html

<noah> Jeff Hodges http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webappsec/2012May/0006.html

<noah> KU Leuven https://distrinet.cs.kuleuven.be/projects/HTML5-security/

<noah> ACTION-695 Due 2012-09-11

<trackbot> ACTION-695 Check with Thomas Roessler on whether security review of CORS is coming up in W3C/IETF liaison due date now 2012-09-11

<noah> ACTION-725?

<trackbot> ACTION-725 -- Jeni Tennison to with help from Peter, to create big picture overview coming out of analysis of TAG effectiveness -- due 2012-06-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/725

<noah> ACTION-672?

<trackbot> ACTION-672 -- Jeni Tennison to work with PLH to create W3C-sponsored registry of HTML extensions, and get that referenced from HTML media type registration, per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Jan/0048.html -- due 2012-05-29 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/672

<Larry> Did the AB have an action here?

<noah> ACTION: Yves to check on AB interest in TAG effectiveness [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-735 - Check on AB interest in TAG effectiveness [on Yves Lafon - due 2012-09-06].

<Larry> I'm happy we have two FPWDs

<noah> ACTION-725?

<trackbot> ACTION-725 -- Jeni Tennison to with help from Peter, to create big picture overview coming out of analysis of TAG effectiveness -- due 2012-06-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/725

Open actions

<noah> ACTION-710?

<trackbot> ACTION-710 -- Larry Masinter to keep an eye on issues relating to CA infrastructure weakness, including DANE -- due 2012-09-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/710

<noah> LM: No news now, not much hope of news soon.

<noah> NM: So, probably continue action, but not F2F

<noah> ACTION-710 Due 2012-12-01

<trackbot> ACTION-710 keep an eye on issues relating to CA infrastructure weakness, including DANE due date now 2012-12-01

<noah> ACTION-704?

<trackbot> ACTION-704 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from Jeni and Henry to try to identify next steps for moving forward on httpRange-14 -- due 2012-09-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/704

<noah> ACTION-724?

<trackbot> ACTION-724 -- Henry Thompson to investigate possible TAG efforts on URI scheme proliferation and extension points -- due 2012-08-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/724

<noah> NM: I'm tempted to schedule this for F2F discussion

<Larry> I'd question what the problem is

<Larry> I could lead a review of urireg document

<Larry> web+

<noah> I'm thinking of web+XXXXX

<noah> F2F discussion?

<jar> The question is which extension point to choose as a function of circumstances (I think). URI, media type, fragid, domain name, .well-known, etc

<noah> hmm..no opinions

<Larry> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-iri-4395bis-irireg-04

<noah> ACTION: Noah to prod Henry on ACTION-724 for F2F [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-736 - Prod Henry on ACTION-724 for F2F [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2012-09-06].

<Larry> if it's on the agenda, i'd include the that

<noah> https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/open

<Larry> I should have a new version of publishing in an hour

<Larry> I got rid of most of the uses of 'resource'

<noah> ACTION: Yves on Tuesday 4 Sept, if no objections, publish FPWD on Publishing and Linking [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-737 - On Tuesday 4 Sept, if no objections, publish FPWD on Publishing and Linking [on Yves Lafon - due 2012-09-06].

ADJOURNED

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Larry to prepare for 30 minute report on HTTP 2.0/SPDY at October 2012 F2F - Due 2012-9-28 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Noah to prod Henry on ACTION-724 for F2F [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Noah to schedule discussion of vendor prefixes (ACTION-711) at F2F - Due 2012-09-20 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves on Tuesday 4 Sept, if no objections, publish FPWD on Publishing and Linking [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to check on AB interest in TAG effectiveness [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-tagmem-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

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