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Social Web Working Group Teleconference

06 Jan 2015


Derived from RRSAgent minutes

See also: IRC log


+1.514.554.aaaa, +1.314.777.aabb, Arnaud, jasnell, aaronpk, eprodrom, Adam, rhiaro, Shane, Sandro, elf-pavlik, oshepherd, bret, wilkie, jessica_lily, +1.773.614.aacc, cwebber2, tantek, Ann

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION-24: eprodrom get the minutes for the 12/16 meeting online by next week [1]]

[NEW] ACTION-25: eprodrom Discuss social api functional requirement process with ig [2]]


<trackbot> Date: 06 January 2015

<eprodrom> Oh, I thought I had started it

<eprodrom> Arnaud: thanks

<cwebber2> hi

<cwebber2> I'm trying to connect

<cwebber2> I'm not hearing audio

<cwebber2> other SIP lines are working for me, but zakim/w3c is not

I can scribe assuming my connection holds

<elf-pavlik> thx rhiaro :)

Can we have a backup in case I drop out?

<eprodrom> scribenick rhiaro

<elf-pavlik> i can backup

thanks elf-pavlik :)

<cwebber2> I can't hear, will just have to follow on IRC for now

<Arnaud> scribenick: rhiaro

Approval of minutes

eprodrom: Minutes not on the wiki

<aaronpk> oh I thought they were posted... hmm

eprodrom: I will find the minutes.

<eprodrom> ACTION eprodrom get the minutes for the 12/16 meeting online by next week

<trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Get the minutes for the 12/16 meeting online by next week [on Evan Prodromou - due 2015-01-13].

eprodrom: Will get them online for next week. Sorry.
... Next week telecon doesn't have much of an agenda, but will be on.

<aaronpk> the minutes are here, must have not been linked from the page:

Open actions and issues


eprodrom: There are a few open actions
... Some have been on the list for a while

<elf-pavlik> aaronpk, 2014-12-16

<aaronpk> oh my bad

eprodrom: eg. figuring out licencing for pubsubhubbub, has just fallen off the radar
... A couple related to AS2.0

<aaronpk> scribe was Doug Schepers, not evanpro and myself

eprodrom: jasnell, can you address some open issues? any updates?

jasnell: Action 9, extended vocab discussion in editors draft
... More work once we're further on with the api
... Will be merging everything from base schema. Action 9 complete.
... What else?
... JSON-LD context ns not set up yet (14).
... Annotation model: can close it. Would be good to reconnect to the annotations group and see where they're at
... They're not doing anything directly with AS yet

<jessica_lily> Zakim P12 is me

jasnell: The other one to do with Social APIs. Colleague Bill Ruby(?) will put together doc about Connections API. He's joined group.

eprodrom: tantek has an open action to close another action... can close that.
... Last meeting we decided date and location of f2f

<eprodrom> sandro, are we good for dates for f2f?

eprodrom: sandro to make sure we have venue in Cambridge

<sandro> 99% sure. paste the times again?

<oshepherd> This Cambridge, MA or Cambridge, UK? :P

<eprodrom> sandro, I will post those dates in a moment

<tantek> March 17-18

<tantek> MA

eprodrom: Dates March 17-18 at MIT

<oshepherd> I thought so, but felt the need to avoid ambiguity :P

<sandro> double chekcing room now

<eprodrom> sandro, if you can confirm we can start making travel plans

tantek: Also discussed the next two days being an indiewebcamp

<cwebber2> and libreplanet is very shortly after too

eprodrom: elf-pavlik action on microsyntaxes


elf-pavlik: Completed

eprodrom: Arnaud, can you clear some actions?

Arnaud: no problem

eprodrom: 8, 9, 21 and 22 need closing
... And 18
... Anything else to add to list right now?
... Biggest not finished here is updating schedule
... How do we get our schedule up to date? Have option to clear it out and just show milestones. Most dates are in the past. Pushed off until next week
... My other one is to make sure minutes get up to date.
... Any other tasks for this list?

elf-pavlik: Can we just remove dates until we have updated ones?

<tantek> agree with remove outdated dates and have no dates instead

elf-pavlik: Better to have no dates than dates in the past.

<sandro> Meeting space confirmed for March 17-18 (and also 19-20 for IndieWebCamp)

<tantek> sandro awesome! thanks!

eprodrom: We agreed last time to keep dates, we have committments on them, on milestones
... Will update as soon as possible.
... As a quick fix, will clear out old dates and replace with TBD


<tantek> agree, sounds good to see outdated dates replaced with TBD

eprodrom: Anything else?
... We have some issues not yet resolved
... That came from the f2f
... But not ready for actions
... (unless someone has any feedback?)


eprodrom: If not, moving on

Coordination with the SocialIG

eprodrom: There's a telecon scheduled for tomorrow. The question is priorities in the next two weeks. Use cases are an important priority.
... Are there other things we need to ask the interest group to update or concentrate on?

<Zakim> elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss IG

elf-pavlik: Will write about meetings with people from friendica, diaspora, etc for IG

<Zakim> tantek, you wanted to discuss IG and annotations use-cases

tantek: Use cases in Annotation WG. Can we ask SocialIG to look into annotation use cases? Or if no-one has any interest, also useful to know.

<AnnBassetti> hmm .. interesting

tantek: Have we asked them?

eprodrom: Important question. The last time we discussed this was at the f2f and KevinMarks was the liason for the Annotation WG

tantek: but not the IG

<elf-pavlik> I can bring it to IG telecon tomorrow

eprodrom: Don't know if there's someone form the IG to liaise

tantek: Really useful to know if anyone from SocialIG is or isn't interested in annotations

eprodrom: Find a way to formalise relationship between SocialIG and Annotations

tantek: A few days ago topic of quotations posts came up in indiewebcamp, so did some research


tantek: When is something in a quotation vs reply vs bookmark
... Tried to see if there's similar research in Annotations community - didn't find anything.

<elf-pavlik> nickstenn, FYI ^

tantek: If anyone knows anything about any other research about post types where you're doing something with someone elses posts, please tell!
... If not, I submit my research for consideration (

eprodrom: In my experience, sounds similar to AS Share verb
... kind of a retweet or repost or reshare activity

tantek: In indieweb we call it repost

<wilkie> these are always interesting cases in semantics. like vs favorite vs bookmark too.

eprodrom: But quotation is like whole thing, quotation is a subset

tantek: correct
... if you do post somebody's entire post but go in and emphasise, that becomes more of a quotation than a share


eprodrom: Really interesting case, because it's so common

<Shane> Sounds like the difference between RT (retweet) and MT (modified tweet) on twitter

tantek: Just want to ask if anyone else knows of any other research

eprodrom: Another thing to bring up with IG

<wilkie> Shane: yeah, it more or less is. people find a way to be creative about semantics. it's just natural.

AnnBassetti: Just wanted clarification from tantek, but have it now. Only distinction I might make is for annotations in this context, we would want to figure out how to distinguish it for social as opposed to any old random annotation
... I think tantek's research does that, will have to look
... Will bring it up at IG if nobody else does
... Don't know where the annotation wg is going with this

<bret> annotations for personal use vs, public shared use?

AnnBassetti: I imagine if I'm looking at a webpage, I can just be annotating it for myself
... Just makeing scribble notes.
... On the other hand, could want to share notes

tantek: Good point. Private notes.

<oshepherd> ActivityStreams already has addressing properties. Perhaps its just the case of using them?

<eprodrom> oshepherd: It'd be interesting to try to model it in AS 2.0

<oshepherd> Private notes would just be to: [], cc: []

<Shane> I have a lot of annotations (of a kind) on my site that only show when I'm logged in

tantek: Private notes are important consideration
... Private notes historically have been considered part of social domain
... All social efforts have typically included private notes as part of their work and their scope

AnnBassetti: How does that work?

<bret> as in social domain covers notes to yourself in the same way they do when shared with others?

tantek: Different opinions welcome, but that's always been the case

AnnBassetti: In indieweb, everyone has own site. So if you're doing your own work and posting it on your site for you, but anyone else can read it?

tantek: Depends on permissions, indieweb and elsewhere
... Public, friends-only, private, to individuals

AnnBassetti: If you give permission to somebody, that's where the social aspect comes in?

tantek: The larger effort of all these things being social consider private posts to be in scope, rather than needing to contact another person
... I realise that seems semantically unusual, but culturally that's how it seems to be in these communities

<oshepherd> Once you have the ability to address posts exclusively to certain people, yourself just becomes a part of that

AnnBassetti: I could post something to myself, but maybe at some point in the future I could pull you into my confidence and expose it to you

tantek: Good example
... Anything that's potentially social

AnnBassetti: Potentially any human activity is social

tantek: Constrain to the Web....

<bret> there are webs in caves too

eprodrom: Before we go too far down that path...

<wilkie> we should get philosophical :) we are trying to capture the entirity of human creativity. the challenge is not getting overwhelmed while also not being too limiting.

eprodrom: The other item I want to discuss at the IG is that we've had a process that we've been following for the Social API, which has been to review APIs from proprietary systems
... To understand patterns that happen in those APIs


eprodrom: And get to a point where we can assemble functional requirements of a social API
... We've done 9 maybe 10

<Shane> Hmm, having trouble with the call, will go irc-only now

eprodrom: Analysis on wiki as well as discussion in calls
... Really is time to take evaluations and make them into set of requirements
... against which we'll measure candidates for the Social API
... Will be useful to get input from the IG in that process
... Does that seem reasonable?

<elf-pavlik> +1

eprodrom: If nobody objects, will put that on agenda for IG tomorrow

<eprodrom> ACTION eprodrom discuss Social API functional requirement process with IG

<trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Discuss social api functional requirement process with ig [on Evan Prodromou - due 2015-01-13].

eprodrom: Anything else to bring up with IG?
... Great.
... One more agenda item


eprodrom: Don't know if we need to discuss this further

<elf-pavlik> TBD

eprodrom: Confirm milestones, but will have to discuss next week
... Anything else we need to discuss this afternoon?
... If not, we can end call

elf-pavlik: One topic for next week
... We had some discussion about media objects in AS. Images, audio, video etc
... We could try to focus on moving forward with some proposals on how to handle media objects in AS.
... There were two different conversations, but didn't make progress.
... If other people are interested, would be good to focus on that
... Can we discuss over mailing list this week, and have some resolution to discuss for next week?

eprodrom: Great, will add to agenda for next week

<wilkie> elf-pavlik: is there an open issue where image representation is contended?

eprodrom: Anything else?

<elf-pavlik> wilkie, i'll try to dig up various email threads and github issue around that

tantek: informally mention that various indieweb people committed to ship features by 1st Jan


tantek: If anyone was working on personal site and shipped something, please add yourself to indiewebcamp wiki

<wilkie> elf-pavlik: sounds good

<jasnell> Working a new blog impl based on AS2 and Linked Data Platform here. Not shipped yet. Hopefully by face to face

tantek: Interesting to see where people are at and what features are drawing attention
... Open invitation for anyone

<wilkie> thanks

<AnnBassetti> thanks

eprodrom: If that's it, we'll end

<Zakim> tantek, you wanted to talk about 2015-01-01 personal site shipments

<elf-pavlik> thanks eprodrom, rhiaro, all!

<eprodrom> Thanks all

<bret> bye

<AnnBassetti> great minutes, rhiaro!

<elf-pavlik> rhiaro++

<tantek> rhiaro++ thanks for great minutes!

<Loqi> rhiaro has 4 karma

<wilkie> rhiaro++

<Loqi> rhiaro has 5 karma

<AnnBassetti> did someone make minutes?

<elf-pavlik> trackbot, end meeting

[End of minutes]