Minutes San Francisco F2F 2016-05-11 Part I: Step Sizing, CSSOM View, CSS Text 3 & 4, Logical properties and margins in vertical text
Step Sizing
- The group reviewed Koji’s proposed spec for snap-sizing and still had a few too many concerns for FPWD. The concerns included:
- The potential for fonts rendering differently depending on OS.
- Interaction with line-grid being confusing for authors.
- That the proposal breaks the CSS design rule of being robust.
- The spec didn’t have enough use cases for the group to determine if this proposal would solve the problem-space.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
CSSOM View
- Brief discussion of changes for handling of empty rects in
getBoundingClientRects() Issue here.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
CSS Text 3 & 4
- Resolved: Not breaking on nbsp; for the break-all value.
- Resolved: break-all should do the same as normal for preserved spaces.
- Resolved: break-spaces goes into overflow-wrap instead of word-break.
- Resolved: Keep current hanging-punctuation values in Level 3.
- Resolved: Add note that more non-CJK-relevant keywords will be added to Level 4.
Full Minutes || Specs Referenced: CSS Text 3, CSS Text 4
Logical properties and margins in vertical text
- Resolved: margin/border/padding logical properties use the element’s own writing-mode, not their parent’s writing-mode.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Telecon 2016-06-15
- There was discussion around various open items to decide on for the group’s the re-chartering:
- The charter will have all specs listed here except those that are listed as re-writing or abandoned.
- GCPM and Box Model will be in the charter, even though they’re both listed as re-writing.
- There was a desire to move some of these to the incubation process, but that conversation was postponed until after the charter is renewed.
- The original proposal of just putting a date on Writing Modes, which is relatively certain to go to REC was viewed as not enough.
- There was a general feeling that the group had good control over getting specs to CR, but that getting to REC was more complicated.
- There was a split between those who felt that REC dates would help the group improve and those that felt the dates would be mostly ignored.
- astearns will make a proposal on the private mailing list to continue the conversation with a goal of concluding on the mailing list and renewing the charter before next week’s call.
- TabAtkins will do the automation for charter update by the end of the day.
- Resolved: Add this section to Values & Units 3 including using pixels as canonical length
- Resolved: Use dppx as the unit for
resolution in Values & Units 3.
- Everyone was asked to review which option is more readable from this e-mail.
- Hopefully there will be a new publication resolution for Values & Units 3 on next week’s call.
- Florian and/or johanneswilm will start an issue on github summarizing the previous discussion on logical keywords for float start/end vs inline-start/inline-end in order to move the conversation forward.
Full Minutes
Minutes San Francisco F2F 2016-05-10 Part II: Page Media Query, Generated Content Spec, Report on vertical writing award website, Testing
Page Media Query
- Resolved: Apply the same logic as
@viewport has for @page size for viewport size.
Full Minutes || Specs Referenced: CSS Page, Media Queries
Generated Content Spec
- Resolved: Content property applies to all elements, but only lone
url values apply to real elements–other values will be ignored.
- Resolved: Add trailing-slash alt-text to content property.
- Resolved: Replace
url with image|url
- This spec still isn’t friendly for accessibility, but would be a good guinea pig for doing accessibility mapping. dauwhe and Rossen will work with the editing task force and dauwhe will add a note to the spec.
- Resolved: Drop
datetime
- Resolved: Drop
document-url
- Resolved: Publish new WD of Generated Content (possibly FPWD depending on patent policy needs).
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Report on vertical writing award website
- skk presented his report on the vertical writing award website. The slides are available here.
Full Minutes
Testing
- Resolved: All tests are added to csswg-test via GitHub PR, if implementation already reviewed push directly.
- gregwhitworth will write some basic contributer documentation.
- Resolved: All new issues for test should be on GitHub
- gsnedders will develop a syntax for shepherd to be able to get the issues and an automatic tagging procedure and plinss will develop a way to get the GitHub test data into Shepard.
- Resolved: Move issue-filing to GitHub in the following steps:
- Set up mailing to receive GitHub issue notifications for archiving
- Switch to using GitHub for issue tracking
- Notify www-style
- Copy over issues filed against www-style to GitHub and reply with link. (for new issues filed after transition)
- Update specs to say that issue are filed against GitHub
- Any issues filed to the mailing list after this resolution is implemented will receive an answer from a spec author informing the individual of the new process and porting the issue over to GitHub.
- Resolved: Remove test-building aspect of build system, just build manifests.
Full Minutes
Sizing
Full Minutes || Specs Referenced: Sizing Level 3, Grid
Minutes San Francisco F2F 2016-05-10 Part I: Scheduling, Round Display, CSS tables status update, CSS UI 4
Scheduling
- Microsoft has offered to host in January/February in Redmond, Washington.
- April/May will likely be in Tokyo or Kyoto area; people should look for any conflicts in this time period.
Full Minutes
Round Display
- Florian presented his proposal for a MQ to tell if a device is rectangle, round, or unknown. Several people felt that unknown wasn’t necessary; if a device isn’t round it can be assumed to be rectangular.
- Resolved: remove device-radius MQ, add MQ for
shape: rect | round with traditional boolean semantics
- There was a split in the group as to if viewport-fit should be defined now or if the group should wait for implementation experience with a middle ground proposed of giving some guidance, but keeping it loose until there’s implementations.
- Resolved:
- Accept
viewport-fit with three values: cover, contain, auto.
- Initial value is auto. UA can do anything it wants as long as the content not designed for round screens is easily 100% viewable by the reader.
- Undefined what is outside the contained viewport for ‘contain’. UA can paint anything it wants, chrome, black, canvas background, @page background, photo of SF Bay Bridge, whatever.
- There were conflicting opinions on if polar origin was necessary and how it should interact with other properties (if it exists). The interested parties discussed it over lunch and come up with a solution to integrate the desired behavior with the motion-path spec, making the motion path spec stronger in the process. The proposal is:
- combine polar-distance and motion-offset -> offset-distance
- polar-angle -> offset path
- polar-anchor and motion-origin -> offset anchor (initial value is auto) which copies the percentages from offset-origin so offset-position behaves like background position.
- Resolved: Accept current proposal as outlined by fantasai (above)
- The Motion Path spec will need to be renamed since it’s more about path positioning than it is about motion.
- Resolved: jihye added as an editor of Motion Path spec.
Full Minutes || Specs referenced: Round Display Motion Path
CSS tables status update
- gregwhitworth updated the group on his progress with the tables spec.
- It’s not ready for FPWD, but he’s looking for feedback from anyone interested in reviewing their work.
Full Minutes
CSS 4 UI
- Florian will look through UA stylesheets to list explicitly what
user-select:none applies to.
- Resolved:
appearance:none for checkbox and radio become non-replaced elements.
- There was a proposed set of principles for ‘appearance’
- it shouldn’t change what you can do with it
- you can’t break web compat
- should not prevent improvements in the UI
- it might as well be useful so long as it doesn’t violate the other three principles.
- Resolved: add
:playing and :paused pseudo-classes
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes San Francisco F2F 2016-05-09 Part II: Media Queries, Sizing, Flexbox, Containment, Content, Testing
Media Queries
- Discussion around syntax for overflow (scrolling vs paged) MQ, and possibly having a multi-value MQ.
- Discussed difference between returning false and unknown
- Discussed the need for a way to truly negate a MQ to createtwo complementary code blocks, since (given unknown being different from false) the current syntax doesn’t give that ability.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Sizing
- Resolved: Intrinsic sizes that don’t require layout to recalculate are treated as definite.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Flexbox
- The decision on how to handle percentages will wait on use cases.
- The group discussed how to handle layout when there’s a column multi-line flexbox that’s floating and has a column wrap.
- There’s a fast and performant and clearly broken and useless approach done by Chrome or doing actual layout as done by Edge.
- People were uncertain which approach was best and concerned that whatever is decided would still work years down the line.
- TabAtkins wanted more time to think about a solution, so the discussion was tabled.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Containment
- Resolved: Publish FPWD of css-contain-1 after edits on overflow dependency
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Content
- The conversation started based around an issue that, as written, cross-references have the potential to create infinite loops.
- plinss suggested solving this using a similar approach to how footnotes are handled traditionally and Florian agreed to investigate it.
- The group then moved onto a more philosophical discussion on the future of the spec. Topics discussed included:
- How can we ensure that browser vendors are okay with the approach so that they can implement it in the future?
- Is the spec too big to publish?
- How much attention should this spec get as it’s not likely to be prioritized and/or implemented by browsers? Or should browsers be more interested in this?
- Should epub have a special time on a F2F agenda like the FX meeting slots?
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Testing
- Resolved: Drop requirement for author or reviewer metadata
- Resolved: Move to primary
link to spec+section being inferred from directory structure. Supplemental links must be inline.
- Resolved: spec-shortname/N-levels-of-ignored-subdirectory-names/frag-id-of-section
- Resolved: Remove any title requirement, other than having one (implied by validity of HTML requirement)
- Resolved: testharness.js tests don’t need a meta assert (but reftests still do)
- Moving to Github, move all of our tests to WPT repo, and stopping future use of Shepherd were discussed, but tabled for future conversation.
Full Minutes
Minutes San Francisco F2F 2016-05-09 Part I: Flexbox, Box Alignment, Grid, Counters, Values & Units
Flexbox
- Resolved: Issue 1, the text for accessibility, is accepted.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Box Alignment
- Resolved: Apply justify-content to columns in multicol elements
- Resolved: Make “smart safe” alignment the default for handling overflow; but put at risk with a note saying to contact CSSWG if there is a problem regarding compat.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Grid
- Resolved: Keep the spec the way it is in regards to issue #3 (Abspos item placement in degenerate grids)
- Resolved: Keep spec as is in regards to issue #24 (Drop empty tracks at ends or also in the middle?)
- Rossen was tasked with reviewing issue #39, missing ‘auto’ changes for span>1
- Resolved: subgrid proposal accepted in the at-risk section
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Counters
- Resolved: Add new syntax (TBD) to control counter scoping and consider reversing too.
- TabAtkins will write a proposal for this new syntax.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Values & Units
- plinss will file an issue with TAG to fix the general pushState/url reference problem in the DOM.
- Resolved: Add hidden state to hash-reference-only URLs so that they can always resolve locally in presence of pushState
- Resolved: Adapt the
element function so that it can be used to refer to always-local references
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Telecon 2016-06-08
- The group is considering switching to the software and document license (available here) and any working group members representing a company were asked to review this change with the appropriate parties.
- The new charter will still require deadlines so the group plans to put items that should be finished soon due in a year and other items due at the end of the charter. Spec authors are asked to please give ChrisL any input on what specs they plan on working on at what time to help him determine dates.
- Resolved: Any value of opacity less than one forces transform styles to be flat.
- There were strong objections to having fragment-only URLs always refer to the host document so TabAtkins will re-write with a different approach.
- The group discussed TabAtkins’ proposal to add an
@else rule
- glazou had strong concerns that this rule would be very hard for editors to implement, but TabAtkins felt that the benefit to authors was greater than the trouble caused to editors.
- There were concerns that having all
@else rues ignored after one is found as true isn’t consistent with other media queries, however it is consistent with most programming languages so it was felt it wouldn’t give authors too much of a problem.
- Resolved: Add
@else to the next level of conditionals pending review by dbaron.
Full Minutes
CSS Pseudo-elements Level 4 Updated
The CSS Working Group has published an updated Working Draft of CSS Pseudo-Elements Level 4. This CSS module defines pseudo-elements, abstract elements that represent portions of the CSS render tree that can be selected and styled.
This somewhat-overdue publication includes the new ::marker pseudo-class, as well as ::inactive-selection. Changes since the last Working Draft are listed in the Changes section.
Please send feedback by either filing an issue in GitHub (preferable) or sending mail to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-pseudo]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
Minutes Telecon 2016-06-01
- Resolved: Accept strings as animation-names
- Resolved: Move fragment styling and
@scope to a delta level 4 of scoping module
- Resolved: Add vi and vb to Values & Units 4
- Florian and TabAtkins were actioned with reviewing the naming proposals for
float and clear in Logical Properties on next week’s call.
- The group discussed how to improve their use of github issues.
- Issues won’t be closed until a decision is reach or the working group resolves on them.
- TabAtkins will add pre-pending the spec name as a part of the issues template.
- TabAtkins will propose an etiquette of contributing guide to include in the issues template on the mailing list for approval.
- Resolved: Add the labels listed here.
Full Minutes
CSS Overflow 3 Trimmed and Updated
The CSS Working Group has published an updated Working Draft of CSS Overflow Level 3. This module contains the features of CSS relating to scrollable overflow handling in visual media. Major changes since the previous draft include
- Trimming out all features other than the
overflow/overflow-x/overflow-y properties themselves. (Features like overflow: paged and fragmented overflow are still considered important and useful, but will be pursued in Level 4.)
- Filling out more details on how overflow is calculated.
- Better cross-linking.
We are especially looking for close review of the scrollable overflow definition, particularly
- Whether the description of the interaction with transforms is accurate.
- Considerations and compat data wrt honoring or ignoring
clip and/or clip-path.
- Considerations wrt including padding and margin spacing in the scrollable overflow region.
Please send feedback by either filing an issue in GitHub (preferable) or sending mail to the (archived) public mailing list www-style@w3.org with the spec code ([css-overflow-3]) and your comment topic in the subject line. (Alternatively, you can email one of the editors and ask them to forward your comment.)
![[Photo: group photo of the CSS working group in San Francisco]](/Style/CSS/csswg-2016.jpg)
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