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EOWG Minutes 6 August 2004 Meeting

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agenda in e-mail list archives: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2004JulSep/0118.html



Outreach Updates

AC: Alan was asked to do a presentation on the semantic web. It took a lot of work and research and there is a need for a document. There is a need to explain accessibility and relationship to semantic web.
LC: I think that it would be helpful.
AC: Need to explain where things should be heading.
JB: In the past month, there have been additional ideas on deliverables. There have been announcements on presenting a text-only version. A lot of people have concerns on this approach. Do we want to bump up the priority? Another topic that has come up is how to make the web site accessible---the process from a lay perspective. We should revise deliverables plan. Anyone have ideas?
CC: I like the idea of having something to refer to. Not sure how we accomplish this. Have to compare list against other things.
AC: It would be useful to have a document that explores this.
JB: My suggestion is that we take note of this suggestion and others as things to consider when we review deliverables list. For future consideration: semantic web, text-only web sites, and how to make web sites accessible.

Introduction to Web Accessibility

Background (from agenda):

Introduction to Web Accessibility


JB: What is the reaction to Introduction to Web Accessibility document?
LC: Shawn has made revisions based on comments that have been offered.
SH: There are wordsmithing discussions about the first two sentences.
SH: For background see message that was sent on Monday. We want to make sure that document can be easily translated.

Create/contribute to

LC: We were concerned about creating or contributing to the web.
CC: Keeping it simple can be taken two ways. Don’t clutter with words or don’t use big, hard-to-translate words. I felt that William’s concern is important.
SH: We want short, simple sentences with simple sentence structure.
CC: Without sacrificing the point that William made.
SH: We didn’t talk about this on the list. We need to make sure that the beginning talks about people with disabilities read, but also others who contribute and create web. In the changelog on July 23 reflects this. Libby and Charmane had posted suggestions.
CC: People with disabilities want to find things of and for them on the site. Creation of content is missing.
HB: This is an important concept to include. I like Charmane’s version.
SH: What are reactions to the sentence that Charmane suggested?
HB: I modify writing style, such as perceiving, understanding,…
AC: It might be easier to talk about web content rather than web. It would be create rather than create for. “can perceived, understand, navigate, create, interact with and contribute web content
CC: could also use –ing form
LC: Would it be difficult to translate?
AC: No, I don’t think so.
SH: The current version has two separate sentences.
JT: I prefer –ing form.
CS: I agree.
SH: Is it too long?
JB: We blow people away with so many ideas. Each word is complex conceptually. Maybe break out “as well as contribute.” This may be a brain pause. This could give more emphasis.
SH: Are we satisfied with create and contribute?
AC: Leave out contribute.
JB: This word may conjure up images that people contribute to one central place?
AC: But, it appears to be?
CS: Blogs. People contribute. Listservs . In first sentence, put use, create, and contribute. Leave second sentence alone.
JB: “Use” may be passive; the second means interaction.
SH: If we do separate sentences, we can explain the term “use.”
JB: Not sure that we should use both create and contribute. But, I get cognitive dissonance when put in use. Does the term “contribute” cause confusion?
HB: It works.
JT: Big picture is everyone contributes. Create is like a web page.
LC: Use both terms.
JB: Alan, is this ok?
AC: ok. We don’t have to define everything. Perhaps we shouldn’t use such all encompassing words.
JB: I don’t think that we should touch perceiving, navigating, etc.
SH: Should we link to where these terms are explained?
JB: I think that we should be able to link to these terms.
SH: It feels like too much.
HB: Use two sentences.
JB: I think that we should grab this and move on. Shawn, if you want to use three sentences instead of two, you should do this.
HB: We contribute to the web whether or not we consciously do this.
JB: Without doing a walk-through, let’s go sequentially.

Third Paragraph

AC: I think that the third paragraph is longer than the one about people with disabilities. Should older people be included?
SH: Many people who are older don’t consider themselves disabled. There are a lot of cultures do focus on older people.
JB: The way it is phrased looks that we’re emphasizing people who are older and don’t have disabilities. Could make the sentence yet longer. Could say “and some older people.”
SH: I am comfortable with “some older people.”
JB: Were there other issues that have been raised?
SH: Libby suggested to take out the subhead “Web Accessibility Barriers.”
JB: It doesn’t seem to be in the right place. It seems as if it’s of parallel importance to the first paragraph of “Why Web Accessibility is Important.”
JB: There is something missing.
SH: It may go in the first section.
JB: How about right after the first paragraph.
SH: I will add to changelog. Include in first section somewhere without a heading.
JB: In the section “Making the Web Accessible” there are two subheads.
CC: What do you think about inverting evaluation and making a site accessible.
SH: We talked about this. But, the most important thing is to make it accessible. Making is the main point. Evaluating is part of making accessible.
JB: I think that, as a whole, we are addressing things around the issue. We should direct our attention to making web sites accessible. Retrofitting exisiting ones.
CC: It doesn’t say that you can evaluate while you are making.
SH: I think that’s a first sentence.
JB: any objections?
No objections.
JB: For more information..
AC: The sites that don’t meet other standards, I didn’t understand it at first. Why does it require more effort if it’s not XHTML. Suggest: sites that use non-standard mark-ups. If the code is junk, it’s more difficult to retrofit.
JB: Changelog item: Editor tries to clean up middle section in order to avoid confusion and achieve clarity. It is confusing.
CC: Alan sent an e-mail suggestion.
JB: The term “markup” may not be understood. The meaning is good. But, only to people who know this vocabulary.
SH: What would you say to high level IT manager or marketing person?
CC: coding or code
SH: May not be technically correct but may be understandable
JB: HTML isn’t valid. Almost everyone knows that there is something behind what we’re seeing.
CC: invalid code would work
AC: correct
CS: Some people would not get valid code.
SH: Is that important in this sentence? It helps to say why.
JB: sites that do not meet existing standards
SH: People will think that we’re talking about accessibility standards.
AC: Ordinary people may not understand that standards compliance benefits regarding maintenance
JB: Why not chop off back half of the sentence and put in implementation plan?
SH: I will take action item to look at it. Ok with everyone?

Section Below the Horizontal Line

JB: No issues on the evaluating web accessibility section? On the section below the horizontal line, the links will expand length of document. What about providing a link to a printer version?
SH: How important is this? It will take effort.
JB: I don’t think that it’s that important.
SH: Does anyone feel that it’s important? Any objections?
AC: Use a print style sheet
JB: Shawn said that this is a good suggestion but that it will slow work down. Can you live without it?
AC: yes
HB: I agree that it can go.
SH: I have made a note about considering this in a later version.

WCAG 2.0

Background (from agenda):

WCAG 2.0 Working Draft review


JB: Thank you everyone for your work on this. Going back to the agenda, the next item is WCAG 2.0 draft. I want to let people know that there is a new version and an announcement will be made later today. The announcement will include certain questions to think about. The questions are things lie: is it easy to understand? How does the flow work with this document and other document? How do the success criteria work? What about granularity of conformance claims? They got many comments but have not addressed all comments. They haven’t produced a summary of which comments they addressed and which ones have not been addressed. This is a core document. I want to organize a review plan. The draft request has a September 1 deadline. We should assume that we should get comments within the next few weeks. Any comments?
CC: Are you asking for reviewers?
JB: Did everyone review it last year?
CC: I thought that you asked for reviewers and I volunteered.
HB: Everyone should read and review it.
JB: There are four documents. But the list is in progress. There is a glossary. Everybody read entire guidelines document. Maybe ask volunteers to look at gateway. What do you think?
HB: Harvey intends to read entire document and comment at it.
JB: People should send comments to the list. We will have agenda item at two different meetings.
HB: I had sent my comments to their group rather than cluttering up our conversation.
JB: If people look at agenda, there is background. I’ll compose a new request message. I’ll send it out next week. Does anyone have access to list of persons who volunteered? Charmane, Harvey, Sailesh, Andrew, Carol. Carol, are also able to look at techniques?
CS: yes
JB: WCAG overview and navigating documents.
SH: There are several documents, when we have made changes and sent to list, we are not going to bring the documents to teleconference unless there are issues that require discussion. Slide show, intro, ATAG, and UAG.  We have to make use of the list for addressing issues. Open “Navigating WCAG 1.0” document. It is significantly redone. I have a question about duplication of information. In my e-mail I listed pros and cons. In the example, “WCAG 1.0 has 14 guidelines…” Should it go here, in the overview document, or in both? It don’t have it, it is repetitive and makes document longer. There is a version that has a number 2 version. Maybe should print out e-mail and comment on the list.
HB: The navigating document. I like the example.
JB: To what extent should overview pieces be self-contained?
SH: I don’t know.
LC: I like redundancy.
Also HB, JT, CC.
JB: It is complex question to lay out. Ok to bring it up here. Anything else? Judy asked for regrets for August 13, 20, 27.
SH: I don’t have any other issues. Could people comment on the format of “Navigating WCAG 1.0” document.
CS: Slightly more space between sections.
JB: I was going to say opposite.
CS: There should be a visual line.
JB: I like the side-by-side and there are fewer examples. The images and text aren’t lining up cleanly in the example. Other reactions?
CC: Would it help with image lineup—would it help to have h3 that line up with example.
JB: This leaves out h2 level?
CC: No. Add in another heading level.
SH: The formatting and lining up are easy to fix.
HB: Has this been coordinated with Wendy?
SH: yes
CC: I like the layout. The CSS techniques image is cut off.
SH: This is on purpose to show that there’s more.
JB: other reactions?

Next Meeting

13 August 2004

Last updated on $Date: 2005/08/18 14:26:13 $ by $Author: jthorp $