APA Weekly Teleconference

15 November 2023


DavidSwallow, Fazio, Fredrik, Gottfried, janina, Lionel, matatk, niklasegger, PaulG, Roy

Meeting minutes

<janina> Date 15 Nov 2023

Agenda Review & Announcements 2:23AM EST

Janina: almost our stock agenda.

janina: We have a little agendum coming up next, but other than that, it's Stocky McStockface.

<Fazio> Our W3C Accessibility Maturity Model is extensible, meaning you can extend it to broader topics

janina: @matatk doing backup scribe duty.

<gb> @matatk

janina: Introductions are called for since David Swallow is here.

DavidSwallow: Liaison to COGA, works as a consultant for TPGI. Old colleague of Matthew@s.

APA Telecon scheduling through the hollidays

janina: The question is about remaining meetings for the remainder of the year.

Shall we meed Nov 22?

janina: Anyone who is unable to meet next Wednesday speak up.

janina: It seems we are meeting.

End of Year Break

janina: We have determined for the end of year, that we will continue meeting until Dec 20th. Our first meeting 2024 would be on Jan 10th.

janina: And that's done.

New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22

Roy: NO new charters!

Roy: Nothign here either.

A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review

Roy: Nothing new here either.

Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues

Dubbing and Audio description Profiles of TTML2

<Roy> - issue: w3c/a11y-request#66

<Roy> - tracker: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Dubbing_and_Audio_description_Profiles_of_TTML2

<Roy> - spec: https://www.w3.org/TR/dapt/

<gb> Issue 66 DAPT 2021-07-18 (by nigelmegitt) [REVIEW REQUESTED] [FPWD] [pending]

Roy: No new requests but there is one I want to mention.

janina: The one from Timed Text over TTML.

janina: I have a report.

janina: I have read the spec and would like us to approve it at this stage. It is only a proposal for an updated WD.

janina: Having read it through carefully I have one comment I would like to put to us.

janina: If you want to, I can put it into a CFC.

janina: At the moment they treat equally whether you burn in audio descriptions, captions or any assistive alternative media representations. This is a profile in TTML for how to add descriptions, captiosn and what not.

janina: The one thign it does not express a preference for is whether you ship them al as one media object with all of this embedded in the object visavis a series of objects that you can independently resource at the user agent end.

janina: I think we might ahve a preference for the latter since it provides more flexibility in terms of volume or end device or you want to send the audio of the channel into a separate headset and so forth.

janina: If they are assembled at the user agent end, we have more flexibility. We might not want to say we want it to be the one or the other, but that we want authoring to move into an independent model schema in order to support greater flexibility.

matatk: Thanks for doing that review! It's a really powerful point. I also thought, when I did a quick review of it, I thought it was very clearly written.

matatk: Doing a CVFC ios a good idea as it gives us an opportunity to review the details.

matatk: You used a particular phrase, "burned in", and that means somethign specifically in terms of captiosn or transcripts: that's where you get this still on disdcs unfortunately, where the text that makes up the captiosn, is inserted a s a layer in the video stream. It is video, so you can't style it, which makes it useless as assistive te3chnology.

matatk: I don't know in what respect you meant this kind of "burned in".

matatk: I can't imagine that they would advocate for burned-in sutitles, but perhaps just acknowledge their existence.

matatk: I'm for a short CFC, perhaps until Monday.

janina: First off, I think we can approve their updated WD and still run a CFC for the commetn we are discussing right now.

janina: I think we'd like it to make that edit before they finalize it. There are a number ofeditor's notes throughout the document.

janina: Second, I will put a CFC togetehr for thsi specific point. I will not use "burned in" - I will use their language. So that we know where they are coming form on a11y.

janina: Wwe would liek them to take a position on this while still acknowledging that supproting legacy technologye is important.

Lionel: I want to get into the minutes an anti-a11y pattern I have noticed, which is a symptom of success. The deaf comunity lobbied for captions, originally they were awful. Now they're reasonably good and a curb cut. Now you get the anti-pattern which is you ahve the burned-in captions and the captions and they conflict. You can't red either of them because they are overlapping.

Lionel: Screen readers, as a reference point, are a venerable technology. Some companies slap a page reader on their sites which yacks away at the same time as the proper screen reader on the user's side.

janina: I had not picked up on that. We should definitely have a preference from this perspective, too. Thank you kindly.

Gottfried: I agree with you, @janina, on having captiosn. But htere are arguments for the other side as well. People give presentations and run their video player on their PCs as part of the presentation, and then suddenly the captiosn aren't part of the presentations. There a re technical restrictions. We need to move forward with having timed captions not burned in.

<gb> @janina

janina: I will try to capture all of this in the CFC and get it out later today.

janina: CAjn we agree to let them go on with tyhe WD and stil, on a parallel track, work on our comment?

matatk: We're asking for an enhancement, so there are no reasons to hold them up any further.

janina: We'll let Nigel know what we're up to.

matatk: I wanted to add something, too.

matatk: If we get to Other Business, I'll hold that thought until then.

janina: Let's check our checkbox and say yes to that publication including running a CFC on our comment.

zaqkim, next item

new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html 023 at 06:45:30AM EST

Roy: Nothing new here either.

CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues

<PaulG> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2023Nov/att-0002/CSS-Next_Community_Group.pdf

PaulG: Lots of discussion about grammar and syntax, not really relevant for what we usually think about as CSS.

PaulG: A new CG: Helping people understand and communicate about CSS by introducing naming conventions which are more approachable.

PaulG: By doing this, they are makign the documentation more accessible.

pauolAs it is a CG, anyone can join.

PaulG: The name of it is CSS Next.

matatk: This looks really good!

matatk: I notice it is a pDF. Do we know if its an accessible PDF?

PaulG: This was all that was presented along with the minutes of that meeting. I doidn't evaluate that file.

PaulG: If someone has an issue with the PDF, let me know.

PaulG: I couldask for access to the original slide deck (probably Google Slides).

matatk: If you have a pointer to the minutes, then would you kindly provide that one?

<PaulG> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2023Nov/0002.html

matatk: If the CG is set up, it would have a page...

PaulG: They may be in an approval stage or not published yet. Anyway, they are not listed yet.

matatk: Thanks fo rthe link to ehte minutes, @PaulG!

<gb> @PaulG

Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open

janina: I reported on mine.

janina: Anyone else?

Fredrik: Confessing haveing slipped up on one...

Task Force & Deliverables Updates EST

janina: Heas-up - we may have a draft for FPWDD on well-known.

janina: We have been doing some real deep thinking in the last ffew months.

janina: Whether we make it before the end of year publication moraotroium is the pertinent quest9ion, the only one left, as of yet.

matatk: A little context: we have been talking about the ideas going into this work for some time now.

matatk: We have two contributors to Adapt who have recently joined who were particularly interested in the discoverability of the a11y statement.

matatk: We made a standard list of, to speak COGA, "standard destinations": login page, search page, product listing etc.

matatk: We have inherited a whole ist of those standard destinations.

matatk: The common destinations and we wanted to help users find them.

matatk: The user may be expecting a slogin page but the site has a sign in page, whcih may confuse or disorient the user for cognitive or language reasons, for instance.

matatk: There is a registry at IANA for well-known URLs, IETF has a spec for it.

matatk: We thougth that we can use this to make sites easier for people to navigate.

<janina> And, one can be confused between looking for 'login' vs 'log in'

matatk: There are three broad sections to it? one about use of well-known URLs (including a11y statements), the second is what you would put into an a11y statement, and the third one is accessibility reporting.

matatk: The a11y reporitng thing is baed on the Reporting API where you can send data back to the people that have the site through the API. It si a well-known place but doesn't use well-known URLs.

janina: The reason we're introducting it is that htere will be a CFC for the PFPWD for this.

matatk: The meeting at TPAC this year was only informal, there ws no formal review.

matatk: We want to discuss whethe rwe go for FPWD first, but we might go another way.

Other Business 9AM EST

WAI-CooP Symposium

<matatk> https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/projects/wai-coop/symposium3/

matatk: I already posted on thsi on the list, but it is too late to register for it now. There will hopefuly be a recording of it later.

matatk: There has been a series of these WAI/COOP symposia. The last one iwll be tomorrow, I will be moderating a discussion about AI and a11y analysis.

janina: Jason is plannig to be there but he will come and go due to conflicts.

Janina presenting about APA at A11yNYC on Tuesday 5 December

<janina> http://meetup.com/A11yNYC

janina: Yours truly will present on A11yNYC accordingly.

janina: Plrease help me promote this!

be done

janina: I love getting to be done by getting to "Be Done".

janina: Thanks everyone! TBC next week!

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).


All speakers: DavidSwallow, Fredrik, Gottfried, Janina, Lionel, matatk, PaulG, Roy

Active on IRC: DavidSwallow, Fazio, Fredrik, Gottfried, janina, Lionel, matatk, niklasegger, PaulG, Roy