– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

Agenda Review

Action Items

<addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

action-1185?

<trackbot> action-1185: Fuqiao Xue to Publish updated (deprecated) versions of i18n-html-tech-lang and i18n-html-tech-bidi -- due 2022-08-18 -- OPEN

action-1134?

<trackbot> action-1134: Addison Phillips to Create pr against canvas formatted text -- due 2022-04-07 -- OPEN

pending

action-1164?

<trackbot> action-1164: Addison Phillips to Respond to string-search#10 -- due 2022-07-07 -- OPEN

addison: on the agenda today
… will keep the action open

action-1173?

<trackbot> action-1173: Richard Ishida to Raise gap report on nnbsp issue in french -- due 2022-07-28 -- OPEN

pending

action-1178?

<trackbot> action-1178: Addison Phillips to Merge useful bits from i18n-html-tech-lang to ltli -- due 2022-08-18 -- OPEN

pending

action-1181?

<trackbot> action-1181: Addison Phillips to Send xfq comments on pattern_white_space, etc. -- due 2022-08-18 -- OPEN

ongoing

xfq: have not looked into whitespace issue yet

action-1182?

<trackbot> action-1182: Addison Phillips to Follow up with payments and other groups with status on string-meta -- due 2022-08-18 -- OPEN

ongoing

action-1183?

<trackbot> action-1183: Addison Phillips to Follow up with ecma-402 on next steps and start tc39 discussion -- due 2022-08-18 -- OPEN

ongoing

action-1184?

<trackbot> action-1184: Addison Phillips to Update tag issue for string-meta -- due 2022-08-18 -- OPEN

done

close action-1184

<trackbot> Closed action-1184.

action-1185?

<trackbot> action-1185: Fuqiao Xue to Publish updated (deprecated) versions of i18n-html-tech-lang and i18n-html-tech-bidi -- due 2022-08-18 -- OPEN

pending

xfq: I have not deprecated notes before
… need to look how to do that

addison: we may have an example somewhere

richard: xml unicode?

addison: that is a good example

<addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/unicode-xml/

richard: need to put something e.g. in the status clearly visible so that people don't miss it

richard: we would just use CVS for the update
… we need to alert the webmaster that we deprecate things so that he can put some tags on the doc

addison: the documents are in TR

richard: yes, they are not recommendations

xfq: I need to ask the webmaster what the recommended way is

Info Share

xfq: tpac 2022 is calling for videos for group updates
… would we want to create a short video about our updates?

addison: would be nice, a question of time

xfq: deadline for the video is august 26

<xfq> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2021/Demos_and_Group_updates#Best_Practices_for_Recording_Videos

xfq: should be a short video
… above are the guidelines

addison: happy to participate in this, but would not have time for feedback cycles

xfq: I can try to make an initial version, not sure if we have time for feedback cycles

richard: you could put slides together and send these out, rather than starting with the video

ACTION: xfq: create slides for tpac video and circulate for review

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1186 - Create slides for tpac video and circulate for review [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2022-08-25].

ACTION: addison: sync with fuqiao about tpac video

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1187 - Sync with fuqiao about tpac video [on Addison Phillips - due 2022-08-25].

<xfq> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Navigator/language

xfq: found an API, see above, discussed this with richard
… we might want to report some issues back to the browser vendors
… e.g. about relations between language tags, case etc.
… we want to discuss this to see what we should do about this API

addison: API in some cases mutates the tag, has preferences for some tags compared to others ...
… the case folding is not a bug, case does not matter in BCP 47

<xfq> if (navigator.language === 'zh-CN') { ... }

richard: if you put zh-hans in browser preferences as first preference
… and you might have zh-Cn, it will not recognize that you want Chinese

<addison> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/system-state.html#dom-navigator-language-dev

richard: it is not capable of matching properly

<addison> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/system-state.html#a-plausible-language

richard: I don't know if it matches partial things
… a bunch of issues around detecting the languages
… and additional issues about how this is used by people
… it must be useful for some circumstances on when and how to use this

addison: HTML has guidance on plausible language

addison: accept-language is the same thing
… modern browsers make it harder to manage the list manually, but it is not impossible
… mobile browsers set it from the OS value
… I have not tested it - do we have tests for navigator.language? Or accept-language?

richard: no. The i18n checker tells you what your accept language settings are, that is it

addison: seems to be a project (for us). Is there any urgency?

xfq: no urgency

<xfq> if (navigator.language === 'zh-CN') { ... }

xfq: I found this because I found websites using this
… see above JS snippet

addison: let's file issues against spec dev
… we then can come back to this later
… xfq, do you want to file the issues?

xfq: sure

richard: what were people using this for?

xfq: I forgot the exact use case
… it may have been for currencies
… would create other possible issues

richard: one should do matching based on bcp 47
… would enable you to match more things than you had be doing

(further discussion on use cases for navigator language)

richard: another infoshare

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/issues/26

richard: asmus has worked on FAQ for the Unicode consortium for Unicode on the web
… have made a lot of comments and asmus created a new version
… have a look at the document, it is quite useful for us. It points back to our documents
… similar to MDM pointing to our stuff, and we point to them
… here is the same thing with the Unicode consortium
… if you have additional thoughts, please add the the thread

xfq: very useful

+1

RADAR Review

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

addison: incoming request on secure payment

atsushi: sent agenda+ for webtransport

addison: ok, so we have some pending issues to review. How about wcag 2.2?

atsushi: I sent an agenda plus about that
… last week

Pending Issue Review

<atsushi> webtransport pendings

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1570

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1571

addison: agree with the comment 1570. No objections from the group
… on 1571: I would add a link to a related comment

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/79

addison: include a link to string meta. Say that we are in the process of working on this with other groups

WG agrees with issue 1571

addison: did you have questions on wcag?

<atsushi> WCAG 2.2 pending

<atsushi> discussion

addison: agree with the comment

xfq: the section has several examples related to i18n, e.g. address and credit card

addison: they got the list from HTML auto fill
… some data they put in here: they are quoting HTML

<addison> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/form-control-infrastructure.html#autofill

<r12a> The binary gender system in Western society is far from universally accepted. On the Polynesian island of Samoa, near Fiji, fa’afafines and fa’afatamas are widely regarded as third and fourth genders, alongside male and female. Read on to discover more.

addison: the examples in HTML are more concrete

addison: your comment is about tagging the language
… we could say more things about other i18n aspects in this section
… no objection to the language tag comment, go ahead

discussion on what to do about other i18n aspects in the section

Unicode normalization to change structure of URL

<addison> https://github.com/whatwg/url/issues/626

addison describes the issue

richard: our article is quoted about NFC

<addison> https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-html-css-normalization

richard: we say "you should write your articles in NFC, or convert it"
… we need to check those older articles
… make sure if we give the right advise
… we also need to talk about normalization
… I looked into the normalization HTML page
… the page needs some attention
… our guidance is: if you have a choice and it makes sense, using NFC is good

richard: yes, for new content, use NFC

addison: you experience problems with identifiers that have a different form
… "be consistent" is our guidance

addison: we probably need to say s.t.

further discussion on unicode normalization forms

addison: do we need to rewrite this in other articles we have, or revisit this?
… and do we need to issue some guidance?
… charmod norm does not have solid guidance here

<addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/#normalizationChoice

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/articles/unicode-migration/#normalization

discussion on further guidance about the topic

atsushi: japanese hiragana or katakana characters can be part of URL
… some of these characters may have two normalization forms for such characters
… not sure what that would mean for web services
… if a system stores user input directly, e.g. from mac file names
… the form will be a two character form
… if a client uses NFC applied, it will be one character

<atsushi> が

addison: which characters are you thinking of?

atsushi: see above example, with dakuten

ACTION: addison: reply to url#626

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1188 - Reply to url#626 [on Addison Phillips - due 2022-08-25].

addison: I will reply to 626. Does somebody want to do editing the QA for HTML CSS normalization?

Richard: will do

ACTION: richard: update qa-html-css-normalization

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1189 - Update qa-html-css-normalization [on Richard Ishida - due 2022-08-25].

AOB?

<r12a> "The best way to ensure that these match is to use one particular Unicode normalization form for all authored content. As we said above, the W3C recommends NFC."

adjourned

<r12a> in https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-html-css-normalization#n11nhow

<addison> close action-1180

<trackbot> Closed action-1180.