Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

15 December 2021


bgibson, Fredrik, janina, JF, Joshue108_, Lionel_Wolberger

Meeting minutes


<bgibson> nick: becky

Agenda Review & Announcements

janina: Welcome! No particular announcements.

janina: We have e-mail discussions we want to clear on or discuss a bit during this call.

janina: We will resume our regular meeting schedule on Jan. 5.

Task Force Updates

janina: RQTF ist feeling rather pleased. Many publications being worked on. Another one hopefull y being published tomorrow.

janina: CAPTCHA FPWD will come ou ttomorrow.

janina: We have comments open until early February sometime.

Lionel_Wolberger: Personalization: we answered I18n's objection. We had a long discussion about people hwo might implement our standard. Looking for anyone who knows a company who would be willing to implement our Content Module.

Lionel_Wolberger: We have a good lead-in to Google Chrome for markup and Userway to implement the rendering.

Lionel_Wolberger: Implementing markup should be pretty easy.

Lionel_Wolberger: Banks are suprisingly unwilling to do a simple page of markup.

Lionel_Wolberger: We're still looking for volunteers to markup pages. Anyone interested to do markup.

Lionel_Wolberger: I can do a writeup on this and pass it on to the list.

LisaSeemanKest: People have done this for us in the past. They were willing. One of them is the BBC.

LisaSeemanKest: Another place that did an implementation page with us s Atos. They might be interested to cooperate with the APA again.

janina: We did try the BBC without much luck a couple months ago.

LisaSeemanKest: Atos mde a page for COGA a couple years ago. Going back to them would progably work.

janina: Is that page still up?

LisaSeemanKest: No.

LisaSeemanKest: The people I would go to on the BBC are Gareth, Neil and Jamie.

JF: Gareth has retired.

Lionel_Wolberger: We had Katherine Greene and Sophie Beaumont.

Lionel_Wolberger: I'll go to Jamie.

Lionel_Wolberger: If anyone else has any other kind of people, please let me know.

Fredrik: I could look into banking here in Austria.

Lionel_Wolberger: Banking means control of your finances and a lot of control for many people.

janina: The reason US Acces Board turned out to be very doable is because they maintina their content on Github. So it's trivial for Bruce Bailey to fork the complaints page and mark it up with our spec.

Lionel_Wolberger: Maybe witht e git we could bind other open source thigns into it.

janina: Any place where contnt is hosted on GIT it's easy to make a fork. Pointing to a branch constitues an implementation as far as the W3C is concerned. It's also a handy way of avoiding attorneys until we actually need them.

janina: Pronunciation: negotiation continues wiht interested implmementors who are all active in ARIA including Google and Apple. We made some problems in an abbreviated meeting today, but in fact is was heartening not only that we had proposals based on the meeting the other week.

janina: ...One of them came with reponses to our proposed spec. We are going to move forward with the spec in 2022.

<JF> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GzVgbwcldWAP3l6yc3KLSRy4rr_qRusEE566viui0_o/edit#heading=h.l63xs71a7cm8

JF: I had a conversation with them in the Google Doc.

janina: We had a slightly different proposal on the prounciation list, but that ocnversation will continue into next year. People are chasing us, and that's a good sign. Thsi needs to happen, we just have to work out what's implementable.

<JF> Aaron Leventhal

LisaSeemanKest: COGA: we're working on a new work statement. we sent it to Becky and Janina. We are going to make some more changes to it.

LisaSeemanKest: Soemthign else we were talking about is what materials would help the APA, that COGA could make, facilitate, in the APA deliverables.

LisaSeemanKest: A little bit on memory impairments, aib ton attention-related thigns.

LisaSeemanKest: It made us think on what would be usable for other people inside the WAI and to make them more ocmfortable with our topics.

LisaSeemanKest: We were wondering if that would be more helpful.

LisaSeemanKest: Looking for interested parties int eh Mental Health Subgroup. And supporting WCA3.

janina: Let menote that Judy put the topic of covering Mental Health on the agenda for WAI coordination this afternoon.

Some call lgistics are being discussed.

janina: Facilitators on task forces are very welcome to this kind of meeting.

<bgibson> wai coordination call public mail archives: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-cc/

janina: Ruoxi mentioned he wanted Lisa to get on that list, too.

Lionel_Wolberger: Does anyone else think about other deliverables?

janina: Go!

Lionel_Wolberger: I was pondering this. There must be soemthign we can answer.

Lionel_Wolberger: One is I see a trend around notificaitons and Mental Health in general. In some ways general society has caught up to COGA.

Lionel_Wolberger: The latest Apple update, instead of Do not disturb, they are reaching for Focus. COGA might hitch a ride on that, writing a note on notifications perhaps, or on Focus.

Lionel_Wolberger: In my general work promoting Personalization, I go to Content Usable all the time. It is a large, large document. Maybe making different lenses. Maybe simplification.

Lionel_Wolberger: Maybe a deliverable on Simplification, how COGA feels on simplification through the lens of Content Usable.

Lionel_Wolberger: It could be very usable to have a lens through Contenht Usable that drives the value statement home with all the research that has been done and that wasn't talked aobut ten to twnety years ago.

janina: It would be a big project, but what about applying Personaliczation Semantic Model to Content Usable?

Lionel_Wolberger: Eat our own dog food? :)

janina: We would be looking to prove the viability of the spec so we can meke it a W3C Spec at long long last.

janina: Maybe instead of a separate document, that would provide that other lens, that simpler view. If wou wanted to know more you could exapned and look into the details.

janina: You ask. We give you work.

LisaSeemanKest: We were thinking, with this work statement, what's our job? Par tof our job is helping inject and explain COGA concerns inside the WAI.

janina: Our job here is to look after a11y support in W3C specs. And the ocordination point si that biweekly meeting with Judy, that one later today.

LisaSeemanKest: Someone who I would't want to ignore suggested we put that in a work statement.

janina: You could put that in the WS and dcoordinate with EO. I'm sure Judy would encourage that. EO is actually very actively participating in those calls with Judy.

LisaSeemanKest: Actually, it was Judy who jmade the suggestion.

LisaSeemanKest: We need to make people understand our use case.

FAST Update

janina: FAST!

joshue108: We've been working ont he Functional Needs group in Silver.

joshue108: We have decided we need to take up another call on Thursdays a s it loks now. We need to be able to bounce stuff other memebers.

janina: It's a functional needs inventory driving what Silver needs to cover in guidelines, outcomes and methods as well as APA's self assessment form that we wil build out further. It is sometimes getting used and we hope to get it even more used by taking advantage of this.

<Joshue108_> Here is the public list

<Joshue108_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-a11y-functional-needs/2021Dec/

janina: We may soon start biuilding guidance for the rest of the W3C on how to build a11y into your specs.

<Joshue108_> If you are interested in joining, please let me know

New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22

<janina> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Dec/0025.html

MichaelC: Second Screen is the only charter for us to look at.

janina: Francois has responded again.

janina: We may be wanting more clarification.

JF: I'll take a look at it and report back.

janina: If indeed there is a probelm between covering inban and out of ban, we will continue to negotiate.

JF: The way we would provide those statements as out of band statemeents, track has to be a child of audio or video. Does he mean that a child element of a media element?

JF: I'll give myself an action on this.

ACTION: JF to respond to https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Dec/0025.html

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2312 - Respond to https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-apa/2021dec/0025.html [on John Foliot - due 2021-12-22].

JF: The question I have is: assuming Francois comes back and says it has to be inband, we can't support otu of band, what do we do?

janina: We should ask them to reconsider. It has been tehre since ancience.

janina: They should think of a way to include it.

MichaelC: They can try to justtify to Philippe or Wendy why they want to ignore our sggestion. They have been a firendly group and I'd like them to stay that way.

MichaelC: They have already missed the deadline for this week's approval. I still want to be on the ball, but they have probably given up doing it before the holidays.

JF: I will prioritize a response today.

janina: I will apoligize fo rholidng them up, but it is important to us.

JF: I will note that it is a bit frustrating that they didn't send this to the larger group.

MichaelC: The process for reviewing charters is not well defined.

JF: Yes, the e-mail is archived, but it's personally addressed.

JF: I'll reserve any further comment.

janina: We will live with whatever they cook up in this API for a long time. Thsi was never ctrontoversial in HTML5 a11y. Never this. The only thing in media tha twe had trouble with in HTML5j was programmatically associating a transcript.

JF: Which we haven't got an mechanism for... yet...

Lionel_Wolberger: Doesn't the timed media spec allow a transcript to associate with a media?

JF: One of the defining differences betwween a transcript and catption or AD is Cap and AD has a timestamp and transcript doesn't, because the transcript is assuemd not to be consumed in conjunction with the media. Whereas AD and Cap is more often consumed so.

JF: I've seend examples form 3Play Media where they have a fully timestamped transcript. Nothing forbids it.

Lionel_Wolberger: You couldn't do it with aria-labelledby?

JF: The problem is the implmementation. Screen readers just read hte ariea content.

janina: there is no download resource or other way of manipulating the content in that way.

Lionel_Wolberger: A function like summary... It refers to a page, so...

JF: The best analogy woudl be figcatipon. That is sort of the idea. You should associate it with a child element. We don't have a child element for video.

janina: COGA is talking about value of descriptions of video for COGA purposes. At some point, I want to hear if there is a different kind fo AD than for people who dcan't see or if it is something else.

LisaSeemanKest: There is an overlap, like a Venn diagram.

janina: Open that as an issue in HTML and we cross reference us.

A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review

<MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6498

MichaelC: There is an issue on CSS Highlight API. Figre out how highlights are expoed to the A11y tree.

MichaelC: We tagged this as something we care about. They added a type attribute to highlight. I think we could close this.

MichaelC: Seeing no objections, that'llll be it.

new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open

janina: Lionel! You wrote a good issue and Im wondering if we ahve had a response. IF nto, they've got until January.

Lionel_Wolberger: We got a very good response. They agreed. They have accepted the task and they want to add the a11y conssideration. It's written and I'm going to reviedw it.

Lionel_Wolberger: Do you want involvement in that review?

janina: Yes.

Lionel_Wolberger: I'll send it to the list.

<bgibson> https://github.com/w3c/imsc-hrm/issues/23

MichaelC: I don't know if you have teh ability to add those issues, but it would b e a11y-tracker. That label should be available in every spec repositoryy.

janina: If he can't, can you?

<Lionel_Wolberger> https://github.com/w3c/imsc-hrm/issues/23

bgibson: I can.

bgibson: And done.

janina: It's good that we didn├Ąt let that go.

<Joshue108_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Dec/0015.html

<Joshue108_> I'm here

Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned

MichaelC: A lot of the dangling specs are things where Josh has comments.

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Web_Authentication:_An_API_for_accessing_Public_Key_Credentials_-_Level_3

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/WebVTT:_The_Web_Video_Text_Tracks_Format

MichaelC: WebVTT. We had a long thing on this and decided on it.

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/CSS_Scrollbars_Styling_Module_Level_1

bgibson: We kind of agreed to disagree-ish on the -CSS Scrollbars Styling Module level 1.

LisaSeemanKest: Is that closed?

janina: It's closed?

<MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/85

janina: If it turns out to be a probelm, then annotate it. In a Github issue.

<MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6351

janina: This is intenedd for subportions of a page not the whole page.

janina: We were sitll not fully satisfied, but since you couldstill get to your default behaviour...

bgibson: Josh was there but isn't now. He could hear us.

LisaSeemanKest: If there is a COGA problem here I'd like to look into it a bit more, cincerning the CSS problem.

MichaelC: You can file an independent issue or as part of the APA review.

janina: Remember their argument is going to be that you can override the styling with !important. It has to be a use case where that's insufficient.

MichaelC: User style sheet swere killed off.

LisaSeemanKest: It's not so easy if you don't know their calss name.

MicahelI wonder if we should ahve accpeted that solution.

JF: The problem is that in the browsers it isn't easy to birng in the user style sheets...

janina: And nobody's giving away engineering services to do it.

bgibson: Gotta leave. Anothe rmeeting.

Summary of action items

  1. JF to respond to https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Dec/0025.html
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).


Maybe present: joshue108, LisaSeemanKest, MichaelC