Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

18 November 2021


Addison, Atsushi, Bert, David, Fuqiao, Richard
Addison Phillips
atsushi, David

Meeting minutes

<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

Agenda Review

<addison> scribenick David

Any extra agenda times

Xf: String meta

Xfq: Epub

Action Items

<addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

Addison: Docs are due

<addison> action-1034?

<trackbot> action-1034: Addison Phillips to Triage awaiting comment resolution items -- due 2021-06-24 -- OPEN

<addison> close action-1034

<trackbot> Closed action-1034.

adisson: close 1034

Addison: Felix is not here

<addison> action-1079?

<trackbot> action-1079: Addison Phillips to Prepare comment for web auth until next week -- due 2021-09-16 -- OPEN

<addison> close action-1079

<trackbot> Closed action-1079.

Addison: 1079 Comments have been prepared for web auth, but was unable to attend their telecon

<addison> action-1094?

<trackbot> action-1094: Addison Phillips to Start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work -- due 2021-11-11 -- OPEN

Addison: 1093 - still to do

Addison: 1094 has had a reply and will be progressing it today

<addison> action-1095?

<trackbot> action-1095: Richard Ishida to Go through all issues that are needs-resolution and compare to awaiting comment resolution and create list of unassigned specs -- due 2021-11-18 -- OPEN

<addison> close action-1095

<trackbot> Closed action-1095.

Addison: 1095 R12a don

Info Share

<xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues/321

<xfq> https://github.com/tobie/specref/issues/688

xfq: looks like BCP47 URL has been moved and broken many links. Has made PRs for our articles.

xfq: Filed an issue against techref regarding tools that broke

addison: RFC editor link is not ideal

jcK: RFC editor should be stable...

xfq: Tools link to RFCs but they broke, is there an equivalent for RFC editor

ACTION: xfq: ping jck about link to BCP47

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1096 - Ping jck about link to bcp47 [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2021-11-25].

jcK: Contact me later to sort this out

<xfq> See https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/324

r12a: Found the link from ietf

JcK: There are issues tools pointer has moved. It is all tied up with the debate on what to do about RFC editor.

xfq: Data tracker link redirects to the RFC editor now.

jcK: The URL will change

Addison: Specref people need to fix links

xfq: Many RFC links have been moved, but BCP is different

Atsuushi: 2 items Murata-san is working on documents and desires a call with JLTF about their relationship with others. Have addition in mind for other relationships.

<atsushi> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12xbvcy1_x2GTvln7nKhA0NEVke63uDpDasGCYbDxhu4/edit

Astushi: Ishii-san has created this document in Japanese on the state and issues on punctuation in Japanese regarding fonts & browsers.
… Kida-san, as JL-TF chair, would like it to eventually be be a working note.

RADAR Review

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

Addison: There was a wide review that hasn't materialised. I will need to follow up on it.


<xfq> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/1899

xfq: This request was discusssed last week. I commented that there are lots of variations and unassigned code points. They changed it to exclude only language tag code points.

r12a: We have no tracked on this PR

<xfq> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/epub-specs/1899/1182db6...97f9b1b.html#sec-container-filenames

r12a: I will label it for tracking

Addison: this is the last open issue that we have.

xfq: agreed

Addison: Should we write down policy about "don't exclude unless there is a reason". Should we codify as it seems file system safe.

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/international-specs/#char_ranges

r12a: This is about including and excluding character ranges, so we already have a clear guideline.

r12a: This was historic, so may need updating

Addison: Should we add something about filesystem safe characters or use the epub list?

r12a: Unsure if that is the case

xfq: There may be no tests or experiments

Addison: they had something like this

xfq: There are still no tests - so no surety

Addison: This was based on vendor input

r12a: We made some changes, did we miss other areas? Should we add it as informational, but refer them to epub's list

Addison: shall we do anything more with this, or leave it for now.

ACTION: addison: codify epub's character restrictions as guidance for specdev

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1097 - Codify epub's character restrictions as guidance for specdev [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-25].

Addison: Added placeholder

Tracker issue can be closed

string metadata in manifest

<xfq> https://github.com/w3c/manifest/issues/968

xfq: Filed this issue in April against web app manifest spec. I propose that we update it to a resolution issue.

Addison: Why didn't we start it as "needs resolution"?

<r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#appmanifest

xfq: I'm not sure we've done a recent review of web manifest. I could not find ref to this one.

xfq: They are confused with translation and localisation issues. They want to know about specific use cases where individual fields override.

<xfq> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp-manifest/pull/12#issuecomment-811624265

xfq: I found no articles on overriding a whole document on this. So I wrote one. They are still asking for use-cases.

xfq: Should we provide examples of single dir/lang changes override.

<r12a> https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/#bp_lang_field_based_metadata

Addison: Set at string level as some strings have different properties to whole document.

Addison: In this case a challenge is that these are displayed out of th context of the document, e.g when shown on home screen.

xfq: I've added a link on one example.

<xfq> https://www.w3.org/International/articles/lang-bidi-use-cases/

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/articles/strings-and-bidi/index.en

xfq: This is guidance, not a use case. Here is the article.

r12a: Here's another article.

Addison: This article could address their requirements

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/articles/lang-bidi-use-cases/#bidiCase2

Addison: so, fisrt thing is that it needs a "needs resolution" marker and tracker. Will these articles suffice?

<xfq> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp-manifest/pull/12#issuecomment-811624265

xfq: This is similar to the string meta article

r12a: doesn't mention that the document may have a metadata set,

r12a: doesn't account for neutral content that may need to be a different dir to the document.

Addison: Shall I see what I can do?

xfq: Here there is a start with latin characters...

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/articles/lang-bidi-use-cases/#ebook_example

r12a: but if the record was RTL, then you would need the override for latin text.

r12a: If you didn't do that for the title field then everything would be incorrect.

<r12a> Use cases for bidi and language metadata on the Web

r12a: I may need to update the article in ^^^ if it isn't clear (in link above)

ACTION: richard: review lang-bidi-use-cases for clarity of use cases of specific override

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1098 - Review lang-bidi-use-cases for clarity of use cases of specific override [on Richard Ishida - due 2021-11-25].

Addison: anything more needed. Do you need help before we update the document?

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/2020/REC-json-ld11-20200716/#example-77-overriding-default-language-and-default-base-direction-using-an-expanded-value

r12a: You have the record set to RTL, but the title will be problematic, but have tagged the author and the direction null is questionable.

xfq: I pointed to this before

r12a: This won't help them understand as the example in the spec appears incorrect.

Addison: there must be a way of getting errata into this.

ACTION: xfq: file errata on json-ld @direction null example

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1099 - File errata on json-ld @direction null example [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2021-11-25].

<Bert> There is a JSON-LD WG specifically charged with maintenance of the JSON-LD Rec. So making an errata can be left to them.

addison: I will tidy up items and limit as list, on rader assignments

Radar Assignments

<addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Nov/0024.html

r12a: what you are looking here, is which you raised hand
… another set of items, without assignment, at bottom
… not in lader at all, for these, assign someone, and check issues
… another is in tracker but not in lader

addison: pick later first. open issue exists without one in rader

ACTION: addison: move and close unassigned with support from r12a

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1100 - Move and close unassigned with support from r12a [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-25].

addison: will work on in column twice

addison: for in rader but unassigned, dom is to Bert?

xfq: many DOM snapshots, and rader is for which?

bert: did one sometime ago...

addison: saw some in needs-resolution

[reviwing list in radar]

r12a: two css-text at the same date?

addison: close one

r12a: take another look on these later
… also take list into wiki, for further use

<r12a> rssagent, draft minutes

Summary of action items

  1. xfq: ping jck about link to BCP47
  2. addison: codify epub's character restrictions as guidance for specdev
  3. richard: review lang-bidi-use-cases for clarity of use cases of specific override
  4. xfq: file errata on json-ld @direction null example
  5. addison: move and close unassigned with support from r12a
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 159 (Fri Nov 5 17:37:14 2021 UTC).


Succeeded: s/???/ietf/

Succeeded: s/Mny/Many/

Succeeded: s/Mura??san/Murata-san/

Succeeded: s/??? has/Kita-san has/

Succeeded: s/???/^^^

Succeeded: s/Kita-san has created this document/Ishii-san has created this document/

Succeeded: s/He would like it to /Kida-san, as JL-TF chair, would like it to /

Maybe present: adisson, Astushi, Atsuushi, jcK, r12a, Xf, Xfq