14:50:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:50:06 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/18-i18n-irc
14:50:13 <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
14:50:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:50:19 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:50:19 <trackbot> Date: 18 November 2021
14:50:22 <agendabot> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Nov/0028.html
14:50:22 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:50:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
14:50:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
14:50:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
14:50:24 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
14:50:27 <agendabot> agenda+ Security issues in bidi
14:50:29 <agendabot> agenda+ Radar Assignments
14:50:31 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
14:51:29 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:51:52 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
14:53:36 <addison> present+ Addison
14:54:35 <addison> regrets+ Fatima
14:57:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/18-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:58:30 <addison> present+ Fuqiao
14:59:07 <David> David has joined #I18n
14:59:45 <addison> present+ David, Atsushi
15:02:15 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:02:18 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:02:20 <addison> present+ Richard
15:02:26 <addison> scribenick David
15:02:39 <addison> agenda?
15:03:44 <xfq> scribenick: David
15:03:58 <David> Any extra agenda times
15:04:04 <addison> agenda+ string metadata in manifest
15:04:14 <David> Xf: String meta
15:04:16 <addison> agenda+ epub
15:04:23 <David> Xfq: Epub
15:04:34 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
15:04:34 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:04:44 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
15:05:02 <David> Addison: Docs are due
15:05:05 <addison> action-1034?
15:05:05 <trackbot> action-1034 -- Addison Phillips to Triage awaiting comment resolution items -- due 2021-06-24 -- OPEN
15:05:05 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1034
15:05:24 <addison> close action-1034
15:05:24 <trackbot> Closed action-1034.
15:05:26 <David> adisson: close 1034
15:05:40 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
15:05:40 <David> Addison: Felix is not here
15:05:43 <addison> action-1079?
15:05:43 <trackbot> action-1079 -- Addison Phillips to Prepare comment for web auth until next week -- due 2021-09-16 -- OPEN
15:05:43 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1079
15:06:04 <addison> close action-1079
15:06:04 <trackbot> Closed action-1079.
15:06:14 <David> Addison: 1079 Comments have been prepared for web auth, but was unable to attend their telecon
15:06:23 <addison> action-1094?
15:06:23 <trackbot> action-1094 -- Addison Phillips to Start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work -- due 2021-11-11 -- OPEN
15:06:23 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1094
15:06:26 <David> Addison: 1093 - still to do
15:06:53 <David> Addison: 1094 has had a reply and will be progressing it today
15:07:06 <addison> action-1095?
15:07:06 <trackbot> action-1095 -- Richard Ishida to Go through all issues that are needs-resolution and compare to awaiting comment resolution and create list of unassigned specs -- due 2021-11-18 -- OPEN
15:07:06 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1095
15:07:12 <addison> close action-1095
15:07:13 <trackbot> Closed action-1095.
15:07:17 <David> Addison: 1095 R12a don
15:07:23 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
15:07:23 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:07:28 <xfq> q+
15:07:32 <atsushi> q+
15:07:40 <addison> ack xfq
15:07:44 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/issues/321
15:08:28 <xfq> https://github.com/tobie/specref/issues/688
15:08:35 <David> xfq: looks like BCP47 URL has been moved and broken many links. Has made PRs for our articles.
15:09:03 <David> xfq: Filed an issue against techref regarding tools that broke
15:09:04 <addison> present+ Bert
15:09:28 <David> addison: RFC editor link is not ideal
15:09:53 <David> jcK: RFC editor should be stable...
15:10:27 <David> xfq: Tools link to RFCs but they broke, is there an equivalent for RFC editor
15:10:38 <addison> action: xfq: ping jck about link to BCP47
15:10:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1096 - Ping jck about link to bcp47 [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2021-11-25].
15:10:42 <David> jcK: Contact me later to sort this out
15:10:43 <xfq> See https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/pull/324
15:10:58 <David> r12a: Found the link from ???
15:11:07 <addison> s/???/ietf/
15:11:58 <David> JcK: There are issues tools pointer has moved. It is all tied up with the debate on what to do about RFC editor.
15:12:35 <David> xfq: Data tracker link redirects to the RFC editor now.
15:12:52 <David> jcK: The URL will change
15:13:17 <David> Addison: Specref people need to fix links
15:13:40 <David> xfq: Mny RFC links have been moved, but BCP is different
15:14:07 <addison> ack atsushi
15:14:56 <xfq> s/Mny/Many/
15:15:24 <David> Atsuushi: 2 items Mura??san is working on documents and desires a call with JLTF about their relationship with others. Have addition in mind for other relationships.
15:15:29 <atsushi> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12xbvcy1_x2GTvln7nKhA0NEVke63uDpDasGCYbDxhu4/edit
15:16:09 <addison> s/Mura??san/Murata-san/
15:16:30 <David> Astushi: ??? has created this document in Japanese on the state and issues on punctuation  in Japanese regarding fonts & browsers.
15:16:48 <addison> s/??? has/Kita-san has/
15:16:53 <David> ... He would like it to eventually be be a working note.
15:17:53 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
15:17:53 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:18:03 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
15:18:43 <David> Addison: There was a wide review that hasn't materialised. I will need to follow up on it.
15:18:56 <addison> agenda?
15:19:18 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
15:19:18 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- epub -- taken up [from addison]
15:19:24 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/1899
15:20:16 <David> xfq: This request was discusssed last week. I commented that there are lots of variations and unassigned code points. They changed it to exclude only language tag code points.
15:20:31 <David> r12a: We have no tracked on this PR
15:20:54 <xfq> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/epub-specs/1899/1182db6...97f9b1b.html#sec-container-filenames
15:21:05 <David> r12a: I will label it for tracking
15:21:22 <David> Addison:  this is the last open issue that we have.
15:21:29 <David> xfq: agreed
15:22:39 <David> Addison: Should we write down policy about "don't exclude unless there is a reason". Should we codify as it seems file system safe.
15:22:44 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/international-specs/#char_ranges
15:23:15 <David> r12a: This is about including and excluding character ranges, so we already have a clear guideline.
15:23:35 <David> r12a: This was historic, so may need updating
15:24:12 <David> Addison: Should we add something about filesystem safe characters or use the epub list?
15:24:27 <David> r12a: Unsure if that is the case
15:24:43 <David> xfq: There may be no tests or experiments
15:24:55 <David> Addison: they had something like this
15:25:13 <David> xfq: There are still no tests - so no surety
15:25:25 <David> Addison: This was based on vendor input
15:26:11 <David> r12a: We made some changes, did we miss other areas? Should we add it as informational, but refer them to epub's list
15:26:42 <David> Addison: shall we do anything more with this, or leave it for now.
15:27:14 <addison> action: addison: codify epub's character restrictions as guidance for specdev
15:27:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1097 - Codify epub's character restrictions as guidance for specdev [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-25].
15:27:21 <David> Addison: Added placeholder
15:27:24 <addison> agenda?
15:27:52 <David> Tracker issue can be closed
15:28:02 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
15:28:02 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- string metadata in manifest -- taken up [from addison]
15:28:08 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/manifest/issues/968
15:28:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/18-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:28:50 <David> xfq: Filed this issue in April against web app manifest spec. I propose that we update it to a resolution issue.
15:29:14 <David> Addison: Why didn't we start it as "needs resolution"?
15:29:50 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#appmanifest
15:29:53 <David> xfq: I'm not sure we've done a recent review of web manifest. I could not find ref to this one.
15:30:44 <David> xfq: They are confused with translation and localisation issues. They want to know about specific use cases where individual fields override.
15:30:56 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp-manifest/pull/12#issuecomment-811624265
15:31:39 <David> xfq: I found no articles on overriding a whole document on this. So I wrote one. They are still asking for use-cases.
15:32:17 <David> xfq: Should we provide examples of single dir/lang changes override.
15:32:48 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/#bp_lang_field_based_metadata
15:32:55 <David> Addison: Set at string level as some strings have different properties to whole document.
15:33:35 <David> Addison: In this case a challenge is that these are displayed out of th context of the document, e.g when shown on home screen.
15:33:51 <David> xfq: I've added a link on one example.
15:34:19 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/International/articles/lang-bidi-use-cases/
15:34:20 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/articles/strings-and-bidi/index.en
15:34:32 <David> xfq: This is guidance, not a use case. Here is the article.
15:34:42 <David> r12a: Here's another article.
15:35:13 <David> Addison: This article could address their requirements
15:36:19 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/articles/lang-bidi-use-cases/#bidiCase2
15:36:41 <David> Addison: so, fisrt thing is that it needs a "needs resolution" marker and tracker. Will these articles suffice?
15:36:46 <xfq> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp-manifest/pull/12#issuecomment-811624265
15:37:05 <David> xfq: This is similar to the string meta article
15:37:33 <David> r12a: doesn't mention that the document may have a metadata set,
15:38:23 <David> r12a: doesn't account for neutral content that may need to be a different dir to the document.
15:38:41 <David> Addison: Shall I see what I can do?
15:39:06 <David> xfq: Here there is a start with latin characters...
15:39:11 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/articles/lang-bidi-use-cases/#ebook_example
15:39:36 <David> r12a: but if the record was RTL, then you would need the override for latin text.
15:40:14 <David> r12a: If you didn't do that for the title field then everything would be incorrect.
15:40:43 <r12a> Use cases for bidi and language metadata on the Web
15:40:48 <David> r12a: I may need to update the article in ??? if it isn't clear (in link above)
15:40:53 <addison> action: richard: review lang-bidi-use-cases for clarity of use cases of specific override
15:40:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1098 - Review lang-bidi-use-cases for clarity of use cases of specific override [on Richard Ishida - due 2021-11-25].
15:41:01 <r12a> s/???/^^^
15:41:50 <David> Addison: anything more needed. Do you need help before we update the document?
15:41:50 <addison> agenda?
15:42:38 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/2020/REC-json-ld11-20200716/#example-77-overriding-default-language-and-default-base-direction-using-an-expanded-value
15:43:54 <David> r12a: You have the record set to RTL, but the title will be problematic, but have tagged the author and the direction null is questionable.
15:44:17 <David> xfq: I pointed to this before
15:44:42 <David> r12a: This won't help them understand as the example in the spec appears incorrect.
15:45:30 <David> Addison:  there must be a way of getting errata into this.
15:45:56 <atsushi> scribenick: atsushi
15:45:59 <addison> action: xfq: file errata on json-ld @direction null example
15:45:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1099 - File errata on json-ld @direction null example [on Fuqiao Xue - due 2021-11-25].
15:46:18 <addison> agenda?
15:46:53 <Bert> There is a JSON-LD WG specifically charged with maintenance of the JSON-LD Rec. So making an errata can be left to them.
15:49:17 <atsushi> addison: I will tidy up items and limit as list, on rader assignments
15:49:31 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
15:49:31 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Radar Assignments -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:49:53 <addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Nov/0024.html
15:51:21 <atsushi> r12a: what you are looking here, is which you raised hand
15:52:07 <atsushi> ... another set of items, without assignment, at bottom
15:52:42 <atsushi> ... not in lader at all, for these, assign someone, and check issues
15:53:24 <atsushi> ... another is in tracker but not in lader
15:53:54 <atsushi> addison: pick later first. open issue exists without one in rader
15:54:26 <addison> action: addison: move and close unassigned with support from r12a
15:54:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1100 - Move and close unassigned with support from r12a [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-11-25].
15:54:58 <atsushi> addison: will work on in column twice
15:55:28 <atsushi> addison: for in rader but unassigned, dom is to Bert?
15:55:51 <atsushi> xfq: many DOM snapshots, and rader is for which?
15:56:06 <atsushi> bert: did one sometime ago...
15:56:21 <atsushi> addison: saw some in needs-resolution
15:57:04 <atsushi> [reviwing list in radar]
15:57:38 <atsushi> r12a: two css-text at the same date?
15:57:49 <atsushi> addison: close one
15:59:39 <atsushi> r12a: take another look on these later
15:59:57 <atsushi> ... also take list into wiki, for further use
16:00:47 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/18-i18n-minutes.html xfq
16:10:39 <atsushi> s/Kita-san has created this document/Ishii-san has created this document/
16:10:54 <atsushi> s/He would like it to /Kida-san, as JL-TF chair, would like it to /
16:16:37 <r12a> rssagent, draft minutes
16:19:16 <atsushi> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:19:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/18-i18n-minutes.html atsushi
16:19:29 <atsushi> s/rssagent, draft minutes//
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16:56:27 <addison> zakim, bye
16:56:27 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Fuqiao, David, Atsushi, Richard, Bert
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