Meeting minutes
<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
Agenda Review
Action Items
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action-1066?
<trackbot> action-1066: Richard Ishida to Move pronunciation-gap-analysis issues to new document -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN
r12a: catching up...
<addison> action-1085?
<trackbot> action-1085: Addison Phillips to Respond to media streams and capture transreq with lack of satisfaction -- due 2021-10-07 -- OPEN
<addison> close action-1085
<trackbot> Closed action-1085.
Info Share
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r12a: I talked with Philippe yesterday, among other things about how to keep the situation from occurring again, see thread ^^
… Groups used to do a disposition of comments, but don't seem to do so anymore.
… Philippe said it should not be up to the Director to find out about unclosed issues on our tracker.
… There were also several things going on (family, etc.) at the same time.
… Philippe suggested groups should send us email when there are things outstanding, before a transtion, whether days or monthts before.
… That would help our work. We will know that a transition is coming.
… As long as it is not as short as three days before the transition…
addison: They can go to the tracking tool and see that we haven't closed an issue. That tells them they should take action.
r12a: I suspect that the Web Payments WG didn't know to look at our tracker before requesting the transition.
addison: We weren't satisfied with the issue. And we didn't know when the transition was going to be.
r12a: Another infoshare:
… What is the future of the ruby spec?
addison: Problem seems getting browser vendors to spend time on it.
RADAR Review
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addison: I set due date for Secure Payment to tomorrow, they didn't request a specific date.
… We can talk about it next week.
TPAC planning
r12a: We planned several meetings. We need to get the list finished.
… The cvent interface for TPAC shows videos and the calendar.
… Calendar shows a slot for a joint meeting for us. Scheduling a meeting automatically assigns a Zoom meeting. I need to ask Alex about making a meeting that uses the same Zoom as another.
… Not easy to make a joint meeting. Can block time on your own agenda, but others don't see it.
… We had 2 slots for i18n meetings. (It was 3am for me, but now corrected to 3pm.)
… I'll talk to Alex.
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addison: I'll add the a11y meeting to our wiki.
… Other joint meetings are CSS and Web Payments.
… One of our own meetings is at the usual time for our meeting, the other is Tuesday.
r12a: If you tell me when the a11y meeting is, I'll add it to the agenda.
… And I forwarded you (Addison) a mail I got with a meeting request.
… Note that the cvent interface requires you to login again every 24 hours.
… When joining a meeting, make sure you leave time for getting an email with your log in code.
addison: Are there links for all this?
r12a: Yes, on the TPAC pages.
<r12a> https://
<r12a> check out the CVENT calendar pages
Action: addison: tell WG to register on CVENT
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1086 - Tell wg to register on cvent [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-10-14].
<r12a> please all watch the videos about how TPAC will work
Bert: A question: what is happening with the timezones database?
addison: The maintainer decided to collapse a number of zones together that hadn't differed in a while. Result is that several time zone identifiers disappeared. E.g., no more Oslo, have to use Berlin instead. People were surprised about the change.
… People are now cherrypicking which changes to keep.
r12a: Why did the maintainer decide to merge zones?
addison: Partly because of the size of the file. Clean up time zone that haven't been different for a long time.
… Europe really only a handful of rules, not really all these different zones as listed in the database.
… But governments could in principle change their own rules. Which would make a time zone pop back up.
Payment Request, Localizable, etc.
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addison: We did attract people's attention to the localization of strings and there are discussions going on now.
r12a: Discussions at different levels.
… Every spec ought to have a way to add language and direction to text.
… Other level is whether we stick information at the end of string, e.g.
addison: A lot of the thread is about whether the OS has metadata to put in the string, or whether the OS will use the metadata. It is a chicken-and-egg problem. If you don't have metadata, you can't use it.
… IDL provides infrastructure for other specs.
… That seems the right place to put things.
… But maybe not the only place.
r12a: I've had discussions, with Ian and others. I'm very open to how they do it, the technical ways. What's important is that the metadata exists somewhere.
… They said it is only two strings, is it important?
… I said yes. Other specs will look at it, as precedent.
… They should acknowledge that data is missing and say that they will work on fixing it.
… Ian said the label is only used on this sheet thing, only used by two companies, and not expected to be developed further.
addison: They are used in Web Payments labels. I saw examples of payment requests with labels defined in Web Payments.
r12a: I thought they said they would not do that.
… But even if it is "only" Apple and Google that use this label, that is still a lot.
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r12a: WHAT WG discussions about implementing what is spec'ed or spec'ing what is implemented.
addison: I had discussions about a backwards-compatible way to specify a localizable string.
r12a: I heard a dictionary-based implementation may be difficult. Extra fields may be better.
<r12a> https://
r12a: In WHAT WG thread people wondered what other places the same issue applies. A list of specs with the same issue would be useful.
addison: Yes, it would be.
… We would probably need to triage them into different groups; document formats, JavaScript APIs...
r12a: And manifests.
addison: Yes, we have a Note about that. Could add stuff there.
… Localization strategies for APIs, language negotiation. That's related to what the manifest note talks about.
r12a: The name "Localizable" for the string with metadata may confuse people.
addison: Maybe rather "Internationalized String"
… I've been asked to review that pull request 971.
… I'll try to make a list of specs with the issue.
r12a: JLreq group was planning version 3, but now decided to write a different document. I proposed to leave the old stuff unchanged, it is mostly about print, and make a new repo for new things.
addison: Focus on digital things, ebooks?
r12a: Yes, ebooks and more. Processing in digital, rather than printing environment.
… Also, where old document wrote about things, but sometimes left the recommendations open, this one will provide more guidance
atsushi: We haven't discussed the writing style yet. We can refer to other spec or copy-paste. Topics such as handling different baselines.
addison: My observation: Maybe consider writiing several smaller documents.
r12a: They are doing that. They may be sucked into the larger document eventually.
atsushi: We are producing topic-by-topic notes. Currently they still are all in Japanese.
… Still trying define how describe width of characters (Zenkaku or Okuri).
… Differences still exist.
… There are complex misunderstandings about usage.
Next week is Unicode conf, but we will have a call anyway.
Addison will be physically at the conf. r12a via Zoom only.